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https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/668861
• PC/Mac: No maintenance – November 18
• ESO Store and Account System for maintenance – November 19, 9:00AM EST (14:00 UTC) - 6:00PM EST (23:00 UTC)
• PlayStation®: EU megaserver for maintenance – November 19, 23:00 UTC (6:00PM EST) - November 20, 17:00 UTC (12:00PM EST)
https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/668861
Eso- Magica>Stamina for class skills!
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nerevarine1138✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭jvargas150_ESO wrote: »
Absurb? Wow really you consider it absurb that I would want it to be balance between magica focusing characters and melee focusing characters so they both benefit from playing the class they selected..
I guess I'll agree to disagree with you, yet this isn't a "preconceived notion," that why I love math, men lie women lie numbers don't.. but whatever I will continue to believe that there shouldn't exist an advantage for characters who choose to use magica as a main stat in regards to boosting their class skill.
You will just have to accept the reality that this exist... I don't know how else to explain it to you.. sorry I tried
Last try:
Stamina is not exclusively for melee abilities.
Magicka is not exclusively for ranged abilities or spells.
Stop. Applying. Erroneous. Assumptions. To. This. Game.----
Murray?0 -
nerevarine1138 wrote: »jvargas150_ESO wrote: »
Absurb? Wow really you consider it absurb that I would want it to be balance between magica focusing characters and melee focusing characters so they both benefit from playing the class they selected..
I guess I'll agree to disagree with you, yet this isn't a "preconceived notion," that why I love math, men lie women lie numbers don't.. but whatever I will continue to believe that there shouldn't exist an advantage for characters who choose to use magica as a main stat in regards to boosting their class skill.
You will just have to accept the reality that this exist... I don't know how else to explain it to you.. sorry I tried
Last try:
Stamina is not exclusively for melee abilities.
Magicka is not exclusively for ranged abilities or spells.
Stop. Applying. Erroneous. Assumptions. To. This. Game.
You know what I won't bother explaining this to you AGAIN, but I will update you on my own progress...
I love the system now and have used what I originally saw as a problem to my advantage... The fact that class skills do not require stamina, even if you are playing a melee toon has really made building my character easier, I just feel bad for characters who choose to use weapon/sta skills predominately who as a result will have weaker class skills.. (That last line, was the original problem you never understood that.. thats fine.. carry on.)0 -
Gix✭✭✭✭
Your class skills are weaker because... you invested in the ability to Tank.jvargas150_ESO wrote: »Ok as a Sorc Tank, you need stamina to block and to increase the damage of your weapon attacks. You would naturally therefore increase your stamina.
Under the current system by doing so you have not helped your class skills, which I'm assuming was your intention, to be a Sorc Tank who uses class skills.
Now as a DK Mage type character you would add magica, since you figure hey I'm a mage, I will be casting. As you add magica, you are indeed increasing your class skills as well as the damage you would deal with your mage staff weapon (if you choose to carry one.)
Notice how in both examples, only the character who main desire is to be a mage is getting HIS class skills improved. Meanwhile your Sorc Tank who is using class skills is using under power version class skills as oppose to the same person deciding to be Sorc mage instead of a sorc Tank who went with magica. Clearly he is at an advantage to be a Magica user instead of a Stamina user.
Do you now understand how the game now favors Magica over stamina since EVEN for melee type character since class skills work with magica?
The sorc who only invests in Magicka won't deal the same amount of weapon damage compared to one who invested in Stamina. Extra Magicka allows you to cast more often and deal more spell damage but you still won't last that long if you only rely on it.
I should know, I spent all my points on Magicka because I wanted to play a frail mage. You have a lot of downtime and to recharge with "Dark Exchange" requires Stamina... you know, the one resource you REALLY need to avoid taking damage. Taking any damage requires you to cast healing spells, which further drain your important Magicka. So you stand there like a idiot hoping not to get hit while doing ***-poor weapon damage, waiting for your Magicka to recharge so you can start hurting people again.... assuming you didn't get hit.
It might sound like I'm complaining but I'm really not. I'm just giving you a sample of the other side of the coin. The best way is to balance your stats. It's a shame because the idea of choosing where you invest your points is practically a lie.
I still like it, but you do feel like you're gimping your full potential.0 -
Your class skills are weaker because... you invested in the ability to Tank.jvargas150_ESO wrote: »Ok as a Sorc Tank, you need stamina to block and to increase the damage of your weapon attacks. You would naturally therefore increase your stamina.
Under the current system by doing so you have not helped your class skills, which I'm assuming was your intention, to be a Sorc Tank who uses class skills.
Now as a DK Mage type character you would add magica, since you figure hey I'm a mage, I will be casting. As you add magica, you are indeed increasing your class skills as well as the damage you would deal with your mage staff weapon (if you choose to carry one.)
Notice how in both examples, only the character who main desire is to be a mage is getting HIS class skills improved. Meanwhile your Sorc Tank who is using class skills is using under power version class skills as oppose to the same person deciding to be Sorc mage instead of a sorc Tank who went with magica. Clearly he is at an advantage to be a Magica user instead of a Stamina user.
Do you now understand how the game now favors Magica over stamina since EVEN for melee type character since class skills work with magica?
The sorc who only invests in Magicka won't deal the same amount of weapon damage compared to one who invested in Stamina. Extra Magicka allows you to cast more often and deal more spell damage but you still won't last that long if you only rely on it.
I should know, I spent all my points on Magicka because I wanted to play a frail mage. You have a lot of downtime and to recharge with "Dark Exchange" requires Stamina... you know, the one resource you REALLY need to avoid taking damage. Taking any damage requires you to cast healing spells, which further drain your important Magicka. So you stand there like a idiot hoping not to get hit while doing ***-poor weapon damage, waiting for your Magicka to recharge so you can start hurting people again.... assuming you didn't get hit.
It might sound like I'm complaining but I'm really not. I'm just giving you a sample of the other side of the coin. The best way is to balance your stats. It's a shame because the idea of choosing where you invest your points is practically a lie.
I still like it, but you do feel like you're gimping your full potential.
You sir understood my original post which I deleted.. most of the other folks didn't get that..
Either way the game is alot of fun, just have to learn to deal with it.0 -
nerevarine1138✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭jvargas150_ESO wrote: »
Your class skills are weaker because... you invested in the ability to Tank.jvargas150_ESO wrote: »Ok as a Sorc Tank, you need stamina to block and to increase the damage of your weapon attacks. You would naturally therefore increase your stamina.
Under the current system by doing so you have not helped your class skills, which I'm assuming was your intention, to be a Sorc Tank who uses class skills.
Now as a DK Mage type character you would add magica, since you figure hey I'm a mage, I will be casting. As you add magica, you are indeed increasing your class skills as well as the damage you would deal with your mage staff weapon (if you choose to carry one.)
Notice how in both examples, only the character who main desire is to be a mage is getting HIS class skills improved. Meanwhile your Sorc Tank who is using class skills is using under power version class skills as oppose to the same person deciding to be Sorc mage instead of a sorc Tank who went with magica. Clearly he is at an advantage to be a Magica user instead of a Stamina user.
Do you now understand how the game now favors Magica over stamina since EVEN for melee type character since class skills work with magica?
The sorc who only invests in Magicka won't deal the same amount of weapon damage compared to one who invested in Stamina. Extra Magicka allows you to cast more often and deal more spell damage but you still won't last that long if you only rely on it.
I should know, I spent all my points on Magicka because I wanted to play a frail mage. You have a lot of downtime and to recharge with "Dark Exchange" requires Stamina... you know, the one resource you REALLY need to avoid taking damage. Taking any damage requires you to cast healing spells, which further drain your important Magicka. So you stand there like a idiot hoping not to get hit while doing ***-poor weapon damage, waiting for your Magicka to recharge so you can start hurting people again.... assuming you didn't get hit.
It might sound like I'm complaining but I'm really not. I'm just giving you a sample of the other side of the coin. The best way is to balance your stats. It's a shame because the idea of choosing where you invest your points is practically a lie.
I still like it, but you do feel like you're gimping your full potential.
You sir understood my original post which I deleted.. most of the other folks didn't get that..
Either way the game is alot of fun, just have to learn to deal with it.
You mean your original post where you argued that you should be able to be effective using stamina-only skills? That original post?----
Murray?0 -
The stam vs magicka allotment conundrum hit me pretty hard around level 35 when I started getting access to the useful tier 3 class abilities. As a DK with no points in ranged abilities other than class skills and quite a few points invested in health and stam for tanking, the lack of magicka hurt a lot there for a while. I wholeheartedly agree that the overall greater utility and offensive power of class skills compared to weapon skills makes spending points in stam rather than magicka a problem. Adding the flat % stam cost of some important survival abilities compounds that even more.
As soon as I started dumping all newly gained attribute points into magicka I found my offensive capability and overall survivability increased simply because the class skills do more damage than the weapon skills. Having the extra magicka to throw down that extra snare or stack 2 DoTs rather than 1 has made a significant difference in kill speed and survivability in PvE. Rather than being a potentially significant source of damage and utility, my stam-based weapon skills have been relegated to the status of things to use while I wait for magicka to regen.
The problem there is I don't have magicka and stamina pools large enough to sustain use of class and weapon skills in protracted solo fights; even with liberal use of light attacks. Also, I find myself running out of stamina fairly quickly (even with glyphs and food buffs) in boss encounters.
These symptoms are particularly evident in Dolmen encounters. Players with very high magicka pools are much more able to sustain a high level of offense against the rapidly spawning mobs whereas I'm left behind as I wait for my resources to regenerate. I've often missed out on Dolmen boss kill credit due to a low % of damage done because I was lacking the resources to use hard-hitting skills.
The only time I put a lot of stam/weapon skills on my bar is for dungeons to give that last little bit of damage with a 2hander to put a boss down. Otherwise I've only got 1 stam skill on my bar: Cleave for 2H AoE and Deadly Bash or Crippling Slash for 1H+S; the rest are all magicka based class skills.
Rplacing the flat % cost of certain stam abilities with a low cost set amount will go a long way toward improving the effectiveness of stamina as a resource. Improving the damage on weapon skills to be closer to that done by class skills will also help to make stamina a more useful resource from a damage perspective.1 -
nerevarine1138 wrote: »jvargas150_ESO wrote: »
Your class skills are weaker because... you invested in the ability to Tank.jvargas150_ESO wrote: »Ok as a Sorc Tank, you need stamina to block and to increase the damage of your weapon attacks. You would naturally therefore increase your stamina.
Under the current system by doing so you have not helped your class skills, which I'm assuming was your intention, to be a Sorc Tank who uses class skills.
Now as a DK Mage type character you would add magica, since you figure hey I'm a mage, I will be casting. As you add magica, you are indeed increasing your class skills as well as the damage you would deal with your mage staff weapon (if you choose to carry one.)
Notice how in both examples, only the character who main desire is to be a mage is getting HIS class skills improved. Meanwhile your Sorc Tank who is using class skills is using under power version class skills as oppose to the same person deciding to be Sorc mage instead of a sorc Tank who went with magica. Clearly he is at an advantage to be a Magica user instead of a Stamina user.
Do you now understand how the game now favors Magica over stamina since EVEN for melee type character since class skills work with magica?
The sorc who only invests in Magicka won't deal the same amount of weapon damage compared to one who invested in Stamina. Extra Magicka allows you to cast more often and deal more spell damage but you still won't last that long if you only rely on it.
I should know, I spent all my points on Magicka because I wanted to play a frail mage. You have a lot of downtime and to recharge with "Dark Exchange" requires Stamina... you know, the one resource you REALLY need to avoid taking damage. Taking any damage requires you to cast healing spells, which further drain your important Magicka. So you stand there like a idiot hoping not to get hit while doing ***-poor weapon damage, waiting for your Magicka to recharge so you can start hurting people again.... assuming you didn't get hit.
It might sound like I'm complaining but I'm really not. I'm just giving you a sample of the other side of the coin. The best way is to balance your stats. It's a shame because the idea of choosing where you invest your points is practically a lie.
I still like it, but you do feel like you're gimping your full potential.
You sir understood my original post which I deleted.. most of the other folks didn't get that..
Either way the game is alot of fun, just have to learn to deal with it.
You mean your original post where you argued that you should be able to be effective using stamina-only skills? That original post?
You sir are an idiot.. and I never use that word lightly..
If you think that what I was saying.. my point stands..
Edited by jvargas150_ESO on May 13, 2014 7:08PM0
