Overland Content Feedback Thread

spartaxoxo · January 24

Arunei wrote: »

spartaxoxo wrote: »

I think most people probably find overland to be trivially easy. It doesn't mean that everyone will find it easy or that those who struggle aren't valid. But, it was basically designed to be fairly easy for most players.

The difference I think mostly comes from whether or not people think that's a good thing. Many people enjoy easy. Even way back in the days of cheat codes, god mode cheats were pretty popular. Skyrim has a lot of mods to make the game way easier. Many games come with a narrative/easy difficulty nowadays.

Trivial difficulty =/= bad.

The thing is, like I've mentioned before, most people who are happy with something or at least neutral about it rarely post stating that opinion. We can't really assume most people find the game trivial if as a general trend people only talk about something when they're dissatisfied with it.

Maybe this should be one of those surveys they send out? Put a link to one on the site, add in an Announcement in the launcher and in-game (with the former having a link to wherever the survey is) so people know it's a thing. I say to do it this way since a lot of people don't have their email address on file to get a survey that way.

I think we're past the point of needing a survey. The devs know that the overland is popular because they have the play data that shows high engagement. And they can also see there's enough people not engaging in it and explicitly citing the difficulty as why that it's still worth doing something to make those players happy too.

I think it is a good thing for there to be options for everyone. I don't agree with those that say it should be mandatory. And I don't agree that there's no need for a change. I think there is a need. A lot of players aren't happy and have said so for years.

We won't know the details until April. It's then that we may or may not need a survey depending on the test of whatever they have cooked up.

But the test is coming and a test is a good thing IMO. The entire point of a test is it can be undone so it actually doesn't even matter that much what the test is because it ends up harmful then they can just not do it.

disky · January 24

rrbreezy wrote: »

PS. I was a bit baffled by this, @old_scopie1945. “Most of us,” of course, means those of us saying we’d like an increase in difficulty—this in the context of not necessarily affecting those only interested in easy story content.

disky wrote: »

old_scopie1945 wrote: »

rrbreezy wrote:- " it’s also eliding what most of us have been saying"

Reply:-
Here we go again " most of us", pure supposition, it is all hearsay. We have a silent majority that no one knows what their opinion is.

The most important reason to address this issue with an optional solution.

Sorry, I wasn't referencing your conversation, just the statement Scopie made about the silent majority. There are plenty of people who aren't on the forum or Reddit, and never say a word about the game - the either enjoy it or they leave, and that's why I believe options are better than a sweeping change which affects everyone.

sans-culottes · January 24

disky wrote: »

rrbreezy wrote: »

PS. I was a bit baffled by this, @old_scopie1945. “Most of us,” of course, means those of us saying we’d like an increase in difficulty—this in the context of not necessarily affecting those only interested in easy story content.

disky wrote: »

old_scopie1945 wrote: »

rrbreezy wrote:- " it’s also eliding what most of us have been saying"

Reply:-
Here we go again " most of us", pure supposition, it is all hearsay. We have a silent majority that no one knows what their opinion is.

The most important reason to address this issue with an optional solution.

Sorry, I wasn't referencing your conversation, just the statement Scopie made about the silent majority. There are plenty of people who aren't on the forum or Reddit, and never say a word about the game - the either enjoy it or they leave, and that's why I believe options are better than a sweeping change which affects everyone.

Oh no, my bad! Lousy quotation job on my part, @Disky. I was responding to the person you responded to—whoops! Sorry for any confusion.

Uvi_AUT · January 29

Hi everyone. 3 month check in here

I didnt read it in the patch notes, so I guess Patch 45 is not the Overland-Difficulty-Patch?
Thanks!

spartaxoxo · January 29

Uvi_AUT wrote: »

Hi everyone. 3 month check in here
I didnt read it in the patch notes, so I guess Patch 45 is not the Overland-Difficulty-Patch?
Thanks!

April

Damico · January 29

How exciting! Might be time to come back.

SilverBride · January 29

The overland difficulty increase is not a sure thing. It is experimental and may not make it into the game. And we do not know what it will even include until it is announced in April and hits the Public Test Server.

Chufu · January 29

Miss the good old times as well when we had "Veteran" levels at everything was much much harder in the overland content than it is now. I had such respect for world bosses, quest bosses, etc.

Atm you can even do world bosses solo as endgame-player, so apart from group content HMs or Trial HMs, there are not many big challenges anymore PvE-wise.

So yeah I'm super interested how ZOS will change this and how hard it will actually be.

sans-culottes · January 29

SilverBride wrote: »

The overland difficulty increase is not a sure thing. It is experimental and may not make it into the game. And we do not know what it will even include until it is announced in April and hits the Public Test Server.

We know you don’t like this, but wishful thinking is still wishful thinking.

SilverBride · January 29

sans-culottes wrote: »

SilverBride wrote: »

The overland difficulty increase is not a sure thing. It is experimental and may not make it into the game. And we do not know what it will even include until it is announced in April and hits the Public Test Server.

We know you don’t like this, but wishful thinking is still wishful thinking.

I was clarifying because the responses to the poster that asked about it made it appear as though it was going to be added in April.

sans-culottes · January 29

SilverBride wrote: »

sans-culottes wrote: »

SilverBride wrote: »

The overland difficulty increase is not a sure thing. It is experimental and may not make it into the game. And we do not know what it will even include until it is announced in April and hits the Public Test Server.

We know you don’t like this, but wishful thinking is still wishful thinking.

I was clarifying because the responses to the poster that asked about it made it appear as though it was going to be added in April.

Totally fair. People are passionate about this, and all anyone can do is guess/hope until there’s a formal statement. The information gap is big enough that it has enabled all kinds of speculative remarks.

spartaxoxo · January 29

The test will certainly run in April. That is when the patch occurs. So if anyone wants to play it at that point, April is when to check it out.

SilverBride · January 29

I understood that the test will run on the Public Test Server, not on the live patch.

spartaxoxo · January 29

SilverBride wrote: »

I understood that the test will run on the Public Test Server, not on the live patch.

Studio Letter wrote:

Here are some of the ideas that we are working on, some of which you may see on the live servers as tests in 2025 and beyond.

No. It will make it to live in April, if I recall correctly. I'm assuming that means PTS in March but IDK.

SilverBride · January 29

spartaxoxo wrote: »

SilverBride wrote: »

I understood that the test will run on the Public Test Server, not on the live patch.

Studio Letter wrote:

Here are some of the ideas that we are working on, some of which you may see on the live servers as tests in 2025 and beyond.

No. It will make it to live in April, if I recall correctly. I'm assuming that means PTS in March but IDK.

So they are doing the experiments on the live servers and not the Public Test Server first? That seems odd to me.

@ZOS_Kevin will you please clarify how this will work?

sans-culottes · January 29

While we don’t have confirmation, it’s reasonable to expect that they’d also get some kind of feedback from the PTS before it hits live. This feedback has only rarely resulted in substantive changes, though—see, for instance, the universally reviled Sacrificial Bones/Grave Lord’s Sacrifice, which has gone unchanged for a year despite overwhelmingly negative feedback.

spartaxoxo · January 29

SilverBride wrote: »

spartaxoxo wrote: »

SilverBride wrote: »

I understood that the test will run on the Public Test Server, not on the live patch.

Studio Letter wrote:

Here are some of the ideas that we are working on, some of which you may see on the live servers as tests in 2025 and beyond.

No. It will make it to live in April, if I recall correctly. I'm assuming that means PTS in March but IDK.

So they are doing the experiments on the live servers and not the Public Test Server first? That seems odd to me.

ZOS_Kevin will you please clarify how this will work?

We've already seen how one test from that list will work which is the Vengeance test. They put up on PTS to ensure it doesn't have any problem bugs. And then it will go up to the live servers for further testing. And the result of the live service test will determine its future from there.

I don't see any reason to think that this experiment won't be similar.

Arunei · January 29

spartaxoxo wrote: »

SilverBride wrote: »

I understood that the test will run on the Public Test Server, not on the live patch.

Studio Letter wrote:

Here are some of the ideas that we are working on, some of which you may see on the live servers as tests in 2025 and beyond.

No. It will make it to live in April, if I recall correctly. I'm assuming that means PTS in March but IDK.

None of that says that the test for harder Overland specifically will come in April. All we know is that April is when they're giving us more information on things. What you quoted says "some of which you MAY see on the live servers".

Nothing indicates that harder Overland testing will even be one of the things being tested in 2025, let alone in April.

spartaxoxo · January 29

Arunei wrote: »

spartaxoxo wrote: »

SilverBride wrote: »

I understood that the test will run on the Public Test Server, not on the live patch.

Studio Letter wrote:

Here are some of the ideas that we are working on, some of which you may see on the live servers as tests in 2025 and beyond.

No. It will make it to live in April, if I recall correctly. I'm assuming that means PTS in March but IDK.

None of that says that the test for harder Overland specifically will come in April. All we know is that April is when they're giving us more information on things. What you quoted says "some of which you MAY see on the live servers".

Nothing indicates that harder Overland testing will even be one of the things being tested in 2025, let alone in April.

The list also includes ideas that are going to just come to live servers period like the upgraded graphics. The reason for the word may is that some details may change between now and then, as they have stated before in streams.

Some of these will be tests and some will be improvements based on player feedback

What you see on that post is what will be coming barring unforseen circumstances.

Arunei · January 29

spartaxoxo wrote: »

Arunei wrote: »

spartaxoxo wrote: »

SilverBride wrote: »

I understood that the test will run on the Public Test Server, not on the live patch.

Studio Letter wrote:

Here are some of the ideas that we are working on, some of which you may see on the live servers as tests in 2025 and beyond.

No. It will make it to live in April, if I recall correctly. I'm assuming that means PTS in March but IDK.

None of that says that the test for harder Overland specifically will come in April. All we know is that April is when they're giving us more information on things. What you quoted says "some of which you MAY see on the live servers".

Nothing indicates that harder Overland testing will even be one of the things being tested in 2025, let alone in April.

The list also includes ideas that are going to just come to live servers period like the upgraded graphics.

That's true, yes. But again, we do not currently know if harder Overland testing is coming in April, or even in 2025 at all. We won't know until April, which is when they're going to release information on things.

spartaxoxo · January 29

ZOS_Kevin wrote: »

So we should note that we haven't announced what overland changes are yet. We'll have more information to share next year. We wanted to just note that there will be changes to overland difficulty generally. What form that takes will be shared next year.

Kevin in 2024, in this thread about overland.

Everything they've said thus far has stated 2025 and that we'll learn more in April. We typically learn more right before a content patch hits PTS. I don't see any reason why this would be a 2026 change based off everything they have released.

We have been hearing from you, the community, that we need to experiment more, to shake things up and not be so predictable. The game needs new and different types of content, and for long-standing feedback to be addressed. We have already started on some ideas that will be tested in 2025. These systems and ideas will be clearly marked as "experiments" in patch notes and are ideas that may or may not be fleshed out into full game systems.

Arunei · January 29

spartaxoxo wrote: »

ZOS_Kevin wrote: »

So we should note that we haven't announced what overland changes are yet. We'll have more information to share next year. We wanted to just note that there will be changes to overland difficulty generally. What form that takes will be shared next year.

Kevin in 2024, in this thread about overland.

Everything they've said thus far has stated 2025 and that we'll learn more in April. We typically learn more right before a content patch hits PTS. I don't see any reason why this would be a 2026 change based off everything they have released.

We have been hearing from you, the community, that we need to experiment more, to shake things up and not be so predictable. The game needs new and different types of content, and for long-standing feedback to be addressed. We have already started on some ideas that will be tested in 2025. These systems and ideas will be clearly marked as "experiments" in patch notes and are ideas that may or may not be fleshed out into full game systems.

I mean...my entire point is we shouldn't be saying "it's coming in April" when NOTHING anyone has said has 100% said "harder Overland testing is starting in April of 2025". Everything you're quoting is giving vague information, that quote from Kevin just says "we don't have anything to say about it other than we're planning on it but you'll get more info in April".

I'm not saying we can't speculate the testing might start in April. I'm saying don't say it 100% is when nothing that's been said indicates that's the case.

spartaxoxo · January 29

Arunei wrote: »

spartaxoxo wrote: »

ZOS_Kevin wrote: »

So we should note that we haven't announced what overland changes are yet. We'll have more information to share next year. We wanted to just note that there will be changes to overland difficulty generally. What form that takes will be shared next year.

Kevin in 2024, in this thread about overland.

Everything they've said thus far has stated 2025 and that we'll learn more in April. We typically learn more right before a content patch hits PTS. I don't see any reason why this would be a 2026 change based off everything they have released.

We have been hearing from you, the community, that we need to experiment more, to shake things up and not be so predictable. The game needs new and different types of content, and for long-standing feedback to be addressed. We have already started on some ideas that will be tested in 2025. These systems and ideas will be clearly marked as "experiments" in patch notes and are ideas that may or may not be fleshed out into full game systems.

I mean...my entire point is we shouldn't be saying "it's coming in April" when NOTHING anyone has said has 100% said "harder Overland testing is starting in April of 2025". Everything you're quoting is giving vague information, that quote from Kevin just says "we don't have anything to say about it other than we're planning on it but you'll get more info in April".

I'm not saying we can't speculate the testing might start in April. I'm saying don't say it 100% is when nothing that's been said indicates that's the case.

They are only using the word "may" to cover their butts. They don't want to promise anything and then have to break it. It's coming in April as far as players are aware, barring something extreme that they would certainly give us an update on. But yes, I suppose something crazy could happen between now and then that forces them to change their plans.

Arunei · January 29

spartaxoxo wrote: »

Arunei wrote: »

spartaxoxo wrote: »

ZOS_Kevin wrote: »

So we should note that we haven't announced what overland changes are yet. We'll have more information to share next year. We wanted to just note that there will be changes to overland difficulty generally. What form that takes will be shared next year.

Kevin in 2024, in this thread about overland.

Everything they've said thus far has stated 2025 and that we'll learn more in April. We typically learn more right before a content patch hits PTS. I don't see any reason why this would be a 2026 change based off everything they have released.

We have been hearing from you, the community, that we need to experiment more, to shake things up and not be so predictable. The game needs new and different types of content, and for long-standing feedback to be addressed. We have already started on some ideas that will be tested in 2025. These systems and ideas will be clearly marked as "experiments" in patch notes and are ideas that may or may not be fleshed out into full game systems.

I mean...my entire point is we shouldn't be saying "it's coming in April" when NOTHING anyone has said has 100% said "harder Overland testing is starting in April of 2025". Everything you're quoting is giving vague information, that quote from Kevin just says "we don't have anything to say about it other than we're planning on it but you'll get more info in April".

I'm not saying we can't speculate the testing might start in April. I'm saying don't say it 100% is when nothing that's been said indicates that's the case.

They are only using the word "may" to cover their butts. They don't want to promise anything and then have to break it. It's coming in April as far as players are aware, barring something extreme that they would certainly give us an update on. But yes, I suppose something crazy could happen between now and then that forces them to change their plans.

Idk man saying "X is 100% coming at Y time even tho nothing that's officially been said indicates that" feels like it's straying too close to misinformation territory.

TaSheen · January 29

I'd personally like to know how bad overland is going to be for me sooner rather than later, y'know?

SilverBride · January 29

This is what the studio letter says:

We have already started on some ideas that will be tested in 2025. These systems and ideas will be clearly marked as "experiments" in patch notes and are ideas that may or may not be fleshed out into full game systems. With our new focus on breaking up content into seasons and away from years, it gives us time to do these experiments and changes.

Here are some of the ideas that we are working on, some of which you may see on the live servers as tests in 2025 and beyond.

What I take from this is that some of the ideas mentioned we may see on the live servers as tests, and we may see them in 2025, and beyond that.

I am not sure if this means all of these may be started in 2025 and continued beyond that, or that some may not start until beyond 2025. Or if some will never make it to the testing phase at all.

Some official clarification would be very helpful.

spartaxoxo · January 29

Arunei wrote: »

spartaxoxo wrote: »

Arunei wrote: »

spartaxoxo wrote: »

ZOS_Kevin wrote: »

So we should note that we haven't announced what overland changes are yet. We'll have more information to share next year. We wanted to just note that there will be changes to overland difficulty generally. What form that takes will be shared next year.

Kevin in 2024, in this thread about overland.

Everything they've said thus far has stated 2025 and that we'll learn more in April. We typically learn more right before a content patch hits PTS. I don't see any reason why this would be a 2026 change based off everything they have released.

We have been hearing from you, the community, that we need to experiment more, to shake things up and not be so predictable. The game needs new and different types of content, and for long-standing feedback to be addressed. We have already started on some ideas that will be tested in 2025. These systems and ideas will be clearly marked as "experiments" in patch notes and are ideas that may or may not be fleshed out into full game systems.

I mean...my entire point is we shouldn't be saying "it's coming in April" when NOTHING anyone has said has 100% said "harder Overland testing is starting in April of 2025". Everything you're quoting is giving vague information, that quote from Kevin just says "we don't have anything to say about it other than we're planning on it but you'll get more info in April".

I'm not saying we can't speculate the testing might start in April. I'm saying don't say it 100% is when nothing that's been said indicates that's the case.

They are only using the word "may" to cover their butts. They don't want to promise anything and then have to break it. It's coming in April as far as players are aware, barring something extreme that they would certainly give us an update on. But yes, I suppose something crazy could happen between now and then that forces them to change their plans.

Idk man saying "X is 100% coming at Y time even tho nothing that's officially been said indicates that" feels like it's straying too close to misinformation territory.

I never stated it's 100%, those were your words. A person asked when it's coming. I said April. Because that's the timeframe we have been given. You're the one that decided to start giving out percentages based off the word "may," despite knowing that they only use that word to avoid breaking a promise in the event of unforeseen circumstances. You're certainly free to interpret those unforseen circumstances as more likely to occur than not. But since they don't like making promises that they will have to later break as a general rule, I don't put much weight into that one word myself. Instead, I am focusing on the overall communication. They have stated 2025 in multiple places so why would I expect anything else?

"We have already started on some ideas that will be tested in 2025" isn't vague to me. If they don't test these ideas in 2025, I expect an there would be an explanation.

spartaxoxo · January 29

TaSheen wrote: »

I'd personally like to know how bad overland is going to be for me sooner rather than later, y'know?

Same. I think this whole debate is wishful thinking of wanting to put it off, tbh. But, they have said 2025 on this one so often that I would actually consider it extremely poor communication and judge them if it was 2026. Not to mention the silence about whether it will be optional or not is absolutely insufferable if we have to wait until then.

SilverBride wrote: »

This is what the studio letter says:

We have already started on some ideas that will be tested in 2025. These systems and ideas will be clearly marked as "experiments" in patch notes and are ideas that may or may not be fleshed out into full game systems. With our new focus on breaking up content into seasons and away from years, it gives us time to do these experiments and changes.

Here are some of the ideas that we are working on, some of which you may see on the live servers as tests in 2025 and beyond.

What I take from this is that some of the ideas mentioned we may see on the live servers as tests, and we may see them in 2025, and beyond that.

I am not sure if this means all of these may be started in 2025 and continued beyond that, or that some may not start until beyond 2025. Or if some will never make it to the testing phase at all.

Some official clarification would be very helpful.

Kevin clarified that overland would be one of the things we get more details on this year, when he said in 2024 we'll have more details this year.

valenwood_vegan · January 29

So I'm confused, has there been any actual official information or statement on overland difficulty other than the reference in Matt's letter?

If not, this is all just speculation.

spartaxoxo · January 29

valenwood_vegan wrote: »

So I'm confused, has there been any actual official information or statement on overland difficulty other than the reference in Matt's letter?

If not, this is all just speculation.

Yes

Kevin stated this in December of 2024

ZOS_Kevin wrote: »

So we should note that we haven't announced what overland changes are yet. We'll have more information to share next year. We wanted to just note that there will be changes to overland difficulty generally. What form that takes will be shared next year.

I don't see this as vague as all.