Deserrick wrote: »

TaSheen wrote: »

Deserrick wrote: »

Frooke wrote: »

...a companion with no levels... the bare minimum you’d expect from a level 50 player...

Companions are premium content. Just having them take some attention away from you is a big help.

Speaking of which, @TaSheen , do you have access to companions? Would you like one? Overland bosses became significantly easier once I was able to get Isobel and build her as a tank.

I know.... but I hate (have always hated) sidekicks. I'm still considering Zerith-Var, but every time I think about it hard enough, I get unhappy with having to kill stuff for leveling - I hate the combat and killing stuff for xp for my girls to begin with, much less anything else like a companion.

I want better xp to be from quests instead of killing mobs. That and the type of combat is where this game isn't really a good fit for me. See, getting my 4th account main to CP160 (will happen today) is a matter of doing a LOT of master writs, because I'd far rather do that than kill mobs....

That makes sense. As far as the levelling, they do get a taunt without it (one hand and shield skill line), so if you change your mind, let me know. It is frustrating to be effectively barred from content.

That's interesting! Thanks for that info, that could definitely make a difference. So one more plus in the matrix....

spartaxoxo wrote: »

TaSheen wrote: »

Deserrick wrote: »

Frooke wrote: »

...a companion with no levels... the bare minimum you’d expect from a level 50 player...

Companions are premium content. Just having them take some attention away from you is a big help.

Speaking of which, @TaSheen , do you have access to companions? Would you like one? Overland bosses became significantly easier once I was able to get Isobel and build her as a tank.

I know.... but I hate (have always hated) sidekicks. I'm still considering Zerith-Var, but every time I think about it hard enough, I get unhappy with having to kill stuff for leveling - I hate the combat and killing stuff for xp for my girls to begin with, much less anything else like a companion.

I want better xp to be from quests instead of killing mobs. That and the type of combat is where this game isn't really a good fit for me. See, getting my 4th account main to CP160 (will happen today) is a matter of doing a LOT of master writs, because I'd far rather do that than kill mobs....

Just so you know, the gear does most of the lifting for companion survivability. And the taunt is available right away for sword and shield. The exp gets them their other skills that help them survive on their own. But that's mostly stuff like heals, which you could toss down yourself if you didn't feel like leveling the companion.

And thank you for that info too!

CrimsonXReaper wrote: »

Zone should scale in difficulty, it's not normal deadland portals can be done by lvl 3 with no gear... it's not RP it should be end game content...

Have the new players starts with the base zone and have them scale, it will be more interesting for them to do so.

Monsters used to have level, I'm not sure why it was changed to have all new players be able to do all zones, just made the game boring for everyone.

Or even make the DLC zones have instances per difficulty, normal, veteran (purple item drops), hard mode (gold item drops). It might have these zones less populated but at least ppl will aspire to run in the last one and it will increase fun for everyone.

AND not everyone wants to farm materials all day so having a way to gain gold items while grinding monsters is a huge bonus in the game.

The game has been dying for a long time now it's time to make drastic changes to keep players from leaving.

Most of the time I just sit afk in a zone while waiting for bgs to pop and even that is another issue but this thread isn't for that

Not all content falls into either RP or end game, nor should it. Questing through the story, gathering mats, exploring the zone etc. are all valid ways to play through overland.

One Tamriel made it so new players could jump right into the current content and play with their friends. Having to play through zones in a linear fashion to get to the new content was a deterrent for new players to join.

There should never be gold drops from overland, no matter what the difficulty. Overland is not end game content, and it shouldn't be. End game content shouldn't even drop gold rewards. The player can upgrade their gear to gold themselves.

And no, the game has not been dying for a long time now.

SilverBride wrote: »

One Tamriel made it so new players could jump right into the current content and play with their friends. Having to play through zones in a linear fashion to get to the new content was a deterrent for new players to join.

This. The target audience was the TES players transitioning from single-player to MMO. The important parts were the "play with friends" bonus, and the "go anywhere". The more difficult content is in separate places from the general overland, so a new player gets an indication when they go there. World Bosses are the introduction to group content, as they should be.

None of this should be lost in a new system, or there won't be new players, just new alts.

tl;dr Don't close the on-ramp.

Franchise408 wrote: »

rrbreezy wrote: »

SilverBride wrote: »

There should never be gold drops from overland, no matter what the difficulty. Overland is not end game content, and it shouldn't be. End game content shouldn't even drop gold rewards. The player can upgrade their gear to gold themselves.

Why?

Gold gear doesn't even drop from vet trials (except some jewelry pieces), there's no way it should be dropping from overland.

I am in agreement that a vet overland should have improved rewards, but it should remain consistent with the rest of the game. Vet dungeons drop purple gear instead of blue. That's the sort of upgrade players should get for a vet overland. Since the overland content is not repeatable (in regards to the quests, anyways), there shouldn't be any unique rewards that drop from vet overland, because so many people would already be locked out of receiving those rewards. But blue or purple drops rather than green is appropriate.

Gold drops shouldn't be dropping in a vet overland unless vet dungeons and trials are changed to also do the same.

Agreed, there should never be unique rewards tied to vet overland. If ZOS overcompensates, there will very likely be a significant amount of negativity over the way the feature is handled, and that's bad for everyone. It needs to be fair, and if it were me, I would start out with going light on rewards to allow uninterested people time to acclimate to the idea, as a way of managing any negativity that might occur during the rollout.

I don't need unique rewards from vet overland and honestly think it would cause backlash against the feature since it is one and done content (per character, obviously).

I do think that it should have a small exp boost to compensate for the extra time it requires. Nothing crazy. It's just that the primary gameplay purpose of those quests besides delivering story is to level up a character and I don't think a vet option should be a hindrance to that. I do not particularly need higher quality gear, it's mostly decon trash anyway.

rrbreezy wrote: »

SilverBride wrote: »

There should never be gold drops from overland, no matter what the difficulty. Overland is not end game content, and it shouldn't be. End game content shouldn't even drop gold rewards. The player can upgrade their gear to gold themselves.

Why?

Because Overland isn't meant to give endgame rewards, it's meant to deliver story. Endgame and high-tier rewards come from content meant to actually drop them, aka Vet/Hard Mode Dungeons and Trials and other such things.

Yes, you can GET stuff like Mounts and Titles and Dyes and stuff as rewards from getting Achieves tied TO Overland, but actual Overland in and of itself such as questing, farming mats, doing surveys, and what have you, isn't meant to actively drop high-end rewards. The only thing I can think of that WOULD and is part of Overland would be Mythic items, since Excavating is an Overworld mini game.

But general stuff like questing and getting Skyshards and what have you isn't meant to be dropping Gold MA weapons or other high-end gear. If that were the case we'd already have had better rewards you get from quests or running around the map farming mats and what have you.

Slash8915 wrote: »

As someone who's played on and off since beta, I feel like One Tamriel was a huge mistake. I said what I said.

The factions lost their identity, the overland became mindlessly easy, and having new players start in random zones as opposed to cold harbour made no sense. (At least that part is getting fixed)

If it hadn't been for One Tamriel we may not have been here discussing this today.

Kyip wrote: »

I went looking for some facebook eso groups to see some opinions on the game from a cohort I expected to not find their way to the forums. I found two groups in particular to be insightful, https://www.facebook.com/groups/esopcgamers/ and https://www.facebook.com/groups/ElderScrollsonlineplayers/. Lots of the expected posts and reposts from community content developers, but the actual gameplay questions from players, as well as the comments and answers to those posts, have been most insightful when they come across my feed. They are, well... I think these are representative of the people who struggle with current overland content. It's a player type I assume ZOS is aware of and has to take into consideration when designing difficulty for the most available content, overland stuff. Sharing because I found them insightful and pertinent to this discussion, especially for people who think nobody struggles with overland right now.

It's a private facebook group so I can't see it but do can you post summaries or something of something someone shared that you found insightful?

disky wrote: »

Slash8915 wrote: »

As someone who's played on and off since beta, I feel like One Tamriel was a huge mistake. I said what I said.

The factions lost their identity, the overland became mindlessly easy, and having new players start in random zones as opposed to cold harbour made no sense. (At least that part is getting fixed)

I was in the beta and I didn't start playing the game *until* One Tamriel, in-part because of the fact that the whole concept of an Elder Scrolls game which doesn't allow you to roam wherever you like feels kind of ridiculous. I hated the idea of being faction-locked. Once OT came along, the game suddenly felt so much more open and free, exactly like TES has always been.

I still don't feel the same level of openness and freedom as a standard TES game, but that's for a whole other conversation and I had to come to terms a long time ago that this was just a completely different game, for better or worse.

On another note tho, I recently saw a Tim Cain video that was about "do gamers know what they want" and "do devs know what gamers want", and the answer to both of those questions was "no", with the reason for devs not knowing what gamers want being that gamers don't know what they want. Tim talked a lot about how gamers always talk about what they don't like, but not enough about what they do like, so devs don't know what areas to focus on. With that spirit, I'm going to talk about exactly what I'd like to see from an updated overland, and leave it up to ZOS to determine if it's a direction they want to take, if it is technically feasible, or if it is financially viable for them to pursue. And to tie it in with my previous statement about "coming to terms with the fact that this is just a completely different game", I try to tie my wants in with what the game already is and remain within that structure.

What I want from a revamped overland:

-Separate instances for normal and vet: This can be determined at some kind of shrine or NPC within towns, and you can choose from there whether to enter into a normal instance or vet instance of the world. This remains consistent with the design of the game which offers normal and vet versions of dungeons, trials, arenas, etc., and still offers separate instances for larger areas of the game as well such as Cyrodiil and Imperial City which have different instances to load into with different rulesets.

-Upgraded, but not unique, rewards for vet overland: Mobs that drop overland zone sets typically drop green (to my knowledge). Those drops should be blue in a vet overland instance. This remains consistent with vet dungeons and vet trials which drop purple gear compared to normal dungeons and trials dropping blue. I don't think purple gear is necessary for overland, and gold gear certainly should not happen. Slight, but not large, increase in gold and XP. No unique items, no unique achievements for vet overland, specifically for non-repeatable content like quests.

-Impacted mobs: Normal trash mobs would benefit from a bit of an AI upgrade, having more complex mechanics, but I would say that trash mobs should stay relatively easy. I would like to see the biggest impact come in delves and public dungeons. World bosses and world events like harrowstorms, or even anchors, all already feel fairly engaging and appropriately challenging, and I don't believe that random trash mobs need to be particularly difficult, but I do believe that areas like delves and public dungeons deserve higher difficulty possibilities. I would also like to see an increased level of challenge and difficulty with quests and quest bosses.

-Level of difficulty: Should be less difficult than a vet trial or vet DLC dungeon. I would like to see potentially some larger mob density in a vet overland, which on it's own, larger density can add its own challenge. As it is overland, it should be something that may encourage grouping, but doesn't require it. It should be soloable. There should be a threat of defeat due to enhanced mechanics, higher mob density, and higher damage output, something that encourages proper use of builds, stats, and gear, but nothing so difficult as to be unapproachable by a larger population that hasn't fully min / maxed or fully specc'ed their builds. I don't want to fully min / max a meta build just to navigate through overland, but I also want my build to matter so that there is purpose to me enhancing my gear and stats and finding different ways to face challenges.

This is what I want to see. Other players may want to see something else. It's up to ZOS to determine which direction they want to take, whether it's mine, someone else's, a mixture, or their own different direction entirely.

Increased HP does not equate higher difficulty. It is simply a nuisance. Many games follow this same "trope."

I would rather the enemies (or "elite" boss) be skillful or masterful, with a variety of moves or skill set at their disposal; an insane amount of health is tediousness galore. Please do consider the aforementioned, ZoZ.

Prior to One Tamriel, ESO was fun and challenging; enemies hit hard from the early levels and onward. I can understand why some players prefer the current model; it is less stressful, especially for players who simply desire to unwind after a hard day of work or for players with some form of disability, where it is easier for them as is. ESO does medieval truly well, after all; it soothes that part of me, which yearns for an era of time past.

I do not know if ZOS would consider returning to level-gated-zones. The alternative would be to have a difficulty meter, possibly base on the skill of the player? It would adjust to how well the player plays or interacts with the enemy?

When ESO allowed players to play with their friends (initially players were in different phases; once the player completed Soul Shriven in Coldharbor, they could then group up, with occasional hiccups, where your friend would still phase out); after another change, players were able to group up with friends immediately once they escaped the prison section and phases became a thing of the past, too. I welcomed that change with open arms, for I played with an inexperienced friend back then.

ESO did many good things at the onset: challenging combat, personal loot, shared kills--players helping players. It was a family affair, so to speak. Let's find that happy medium once again, ZoZ. Go back to your roots, while utilizing current technology to bring greater enjoyment to your playerbase.

Thank you for reading and reminiscing/musing with me.

Edit:

spartaxoxo wrote: »

I'm hoping that whatever system they use as the test for overland difficulty will allow us to use it in West Weald. It's a shame that they didn't introduce it with Ithelia, would have made her absolutely epic.

She was already epic to me. I still had trouble taking her down, everything was getting to chaotic and Isobel died twice saving me.

I don't want to play something separate from the existing stories. I want to enjoy the stories. While separate stuff did help spice things up a bit, they do nothing to address that core concern.