AzuraFan wrote: »

Soarora wrote: »

AzuraFan wrote: »

Anyway, the bottom line is that ZOS is going to continue to experiment with monetization now that the annual chapter is gone. In this case, I think they want to encourage people to sub because subs are a stable income for them every month.

I understand why they would go this route but we are still allowed to criticize it and explain the impacts on our scenarios.

Of course. I don't see where I said otherwise. In fact, I said in my other post that I can understand why people are irritated by it. Perhaps you quoted the wrong person. It happens.

I appreciate the kind response. Wasn’t trying to come at you (or anyone else for that matter) specifically, more of making a general statement, but I’m glad to hear you understand the problem.

Warhawke_80 wrote: »

it's only a few bucks...I honestly forget about my sub unless someone brings it up...no my big expense is usually on crowns I should dial back my purchases of those I guess but I never do...

For some of us this is entirely true. But for many others, especially in other countries, and even people in the US who are struggling right now, this is going to ruin what is perhaps their one getaway in an increasingly dark and disturbed world. As it happens I did NOT buy crowns on sale - for the first time in 7 years - because I'm not really sure that the change to the green CP tree will be enough to keep me subbing. Not subbing will be also the first time in 7 years....

A little empathy can go a long way....

Not gonna lie, I'm surprised that there are players defending an obviously anti-consumer move. Players, as a whole, don't benefit from it at all. Even if you pay a sub, it's a neutral thing for you, but if you were relying on crowns for whatever reason then you just lost a preferred option, if you were relying on gold then you are just screwed. Not a single player wins from other player being screwed by devs.
I doubt that ZoS in the dire need of money, considering that they last year they reported that ESO made 2B dollars over ten years, and it doesn't feel that the game receives comparable investments back.

AzuraFan wrote: »

licenturion wrote: »

AzuraFan wrote: »

ZOS has to add more value to ESO+ because what you get for your sub has actually been decreasing (Q3 and Q4 DLCs went away). So maybe part of this is to add more value to the subscription, because now the annual chapter DLC is going away too.

This isn't true since blackwood. The extra content like companions and the Q4 zones were part of the chapter and given away for free with community challenges. If you had the chapter, you could claim the content for free for a month.

Giving away the Q4 DLC to everyone (when there was a Q4 DLC) devalued the ESO+ sub.

Let's say you subscribe to something that gives you access to a barrel. Everyone else has to pay for it. Suddenly the company gives the barrel to everyone for free. Sure, you get the barrel too, but you don't need a sub for that. So effectively the company has removed access to the barrel from the benefits of subbing. With no price reduction, you're getting less for your sub than you used to.

It's gone further than that. ESO+ used to include 3 quarterly DLCs and one annual DLC (a year later) per year. Now it includes 1 quarterly DLC and that's it. But no price reduction.

Anyway, the bottom line is that ZOS is going to continue to experiment with monetization now that the annual chapter is gone. In this case, I think they want to encourage people to sub because subs are a stable income for them every month.

They should have thought of that before going B2P then. This is just more wishy-washy decision making from a company that can't seem to make up their mind.

• DOTs for everyone (despite everyone telling them it was bad during the Elsweyr release) and then flipping back the next update.
• Character driven - replayability, then AwA to make it more metadata-account driven, now they're going back to do character specific stuff.
• Sub vs no sub
• Update models, wait, no, people hated it, we won't ever do that again. Until we do.

It feels like throwing spaghetti at the wall to see what sticks and then they forget what spaghetti has already been thrown so they do it again later.

Forcing people into subscribing isn't the same as "adding value" to the sub. Adding value is adding things that you'd otherwise have to pay for or small perks like additional XP/storage. If the option is sub or don't get the DLC at all, it's not a value for having the sub, it becomes a necessity if you want to engage in that content.

licenturion wrote: »

Just read the announcement on the official new page.

As mentioned above, if you wish to tackle these two new Alliance War-themed dungeons, you’ll need an active ESO Plus membership. The dungeon DLC will NOT be available for purchase for crowns at launch.

This is a bad move and sets a really bad precedent for the upcoming seasonal stuff.

I will wait until they are for sale at some point or wait until there is another trial week. Or just wait out a year of content and grab everything with one month of ESO+. No need for buying crowns either in sale because DLC was my main use for crowns. It will be a cheap year for a patient gamer.

I wonder also if this will affect matchmaking times for group finder now that a part of the community is excluded.

What do other think of this?

New content for paying players are a good thing in my opinion.

I was expecting a change to how we paid for stuff in ESO, but I guess we'll have to wait to see if Plus is going to be a real must have or as it is now, something that has pros but you can play without having it all the time.

I'd hope there would be a way for players to buy the DLC for crowns as well as the subscription, given that both do cost money. It's possibly an attempt to get people subscribing and experiencing the craft bag and other perks, to get sub numbers up. Then we'll possibly get the chance to buy the DLC outright later. Wait and see I guess.

I'd rather try a new dungeon via Plus before I buy it anyway. There are some DLC dungeons I'm glad to lose when my Plus runs out

RomanRex wrote: »

virtus753 wrote: »

JustLovely wrote: »

Quackery wrote: »

It's just 10 dollars A MONTH, i.e. avoid drinking 2 beers and you'll be fine. You get an insane amount of value for that 10 dollars.

It's $15/month USD.

It varies depending on the term of your subscription.

“Pay more to save more.” 👍🏻

If you’re unsure you’ll still be playing the game in 3, 6, or 12 months, committing to ESO+ is a risky investment that could go to waste. When competitor games are released, ESO+ will feel more like a tether to a 10-year-old game than a benefit.

Sure, the value of a subscription certainly also varies alongside the cost, even more so since value is subjective and cost is only one factor in the consideration of value. For those uncertain about the game and its direction, it will be hard to find an amount of savings that make it worth subscribing for more than one month. Even for us long-time players, that is always a consideration.

In terms of objective cost, though, as in what appears on your bill, universal statements like "it's just 10 dollars a month" or "it's $15/month" just don't work when there is a substantial variation in the rates available. (The $10 figure in particular is quite rounded as well, as the lowest legitimate amount is $11.666.) Different people are paying different rates, even in the same currency. A yearlong sub "saves" over 22% compared to 12 month-long ones, or in other words someone pays 28.5% more to sub by the month compared to a yearlong term. While it is $15 ($14.99) for one month, it is not always $15 per month. And the difference in cost changes the value for many players. I know it does for me. I really don't think the sub is worth $15 per month to me. I would not have subbed at that rate when I started back in 2017, and I never have since. Even so, I've long been on the fence about whether it's worth the rate I do pay (it's the people I play with and the content we collectively want to do that has kept me subscribed for so long), so I'm very curious to see how they change the model going forward this year - not just for this Q1 DLC but for all of the new seasonal content as well. That's especially true since I recently cancelled my sub due to an unacceptable situation with Support, and I have until April to figure out between the new monetization and the outcome of this Support issue whether I will be subscribing going forward after having been subscribed for what will have been 8 years straight. While the circumstances are unfortunate, the coincidence means it's a good time for me to reconsider the value.

heaven13 wrote: »

Sharrum wrote: »

Soarora wrote: »

I bought all the DLCs through trading with players

And here you have the Why of this change.

Most of the f2p crowd gets their crowns from player to player trading which means:

1- ZOS gets the money from 1 person instead of 2, that directly halves their profit on this particular transaction.

That's not how math works.

• Person A buys crowns and then buys the DLC for themselves.
• Person B buys crowns and then buys the DLC for Person C.

The same amount of crowns was purchased and paid for in either situation, doesn't matter who actually has the DLC on their account. You can buy crowns and literally never use them on anything. ZoS still has your money. It's that initial transaction that matters.

However, this is assuming that people A and B both bought crowns independently. It's also a likely scenario (more likely, actually) that they didn't buy Crowns independently.

Modified example:

• Person A buys ESO+ and uses their sub Crowns to buy the DLC for themselves.
• Person B buys ESO+ and uses their sub Crowns to buy the DLC for person C.

In that circumstance, 3 people are playing the DLC, but only two paid for it. Also don't forget that the overwhelming majority of people who do buy Crowns on top of their subs will specifically wait to stock up during sales, so the 'standard price' for basically everything in the Crown store is usually 40% off for most people since they bought the crowns during a sale.

As to the topic, I do see how this is... unusual, but I wonder if this is a preview of how the "seasons" are going to go. We all know that the Chapter sales and ESO+ are the big profit-makers for ESO, so removing one of those means the money will need to be made up somewhere.

I will say that I didn't expect most people would buy dungeon DLCs a la carte though. After getting the sets and achievements, there's really no reason to go back to them again, and there're always people here wishing they could remove the DLC dungeons so they wouldn't have to be subjected to them for random normals.

My take on this is that I think the game should be entirely subscriber based. An active paying subscription required to even login.

The free aspect IMHO does not bring in any realistic revenue and while that might boost & boast player numbers the free players do not bring any money to the table.

LalMirchi wrote: »

My take on this is that I think the game should be entirely subscriber based. An active paying subscription required to even login.

The free aspect IMHO does not bring in any realistic revenue and while that might boost & boast player numbers the free players do not bring any money to the table.

Some of them buy stuff from the crown store. Some of them probably buy a lot.

Soarora wrote: »

XSTRONG wrote: »

licenturion wrote: »

Just read the announcement on the official new page.

As mentioned above, if you wish to tackle these two new Alliance War-themed dungeons, you’ll need an active ESO Plus membership. The dungeon DLC will NOT be available for purchase for crowns at launch.

This is a bad move and sets a really bad precedent for the upcoming seasonal stuff.

I will wait until they are for sale at some point or wait until there is another trial week. Or just wait out a year of content and grab everything with one month of ESO+. No need for buying crowns either in sale because DLC was my main use for crowns. It will be a cheap year for a patient gamer.

I wonder also if this will affect matchmaking times for group finder now that a part of the community is excluded.

What do other think of this?

New content for paying players are a good thing in my opinion.

You can do that without making people unable to get the DLC any other way by letting ESO+ subscribers get access to the dungeons DLCs like they always have been able to. Paying for the DLCs specifically isn’t not paying, its paying a different way.

If someone want to buy Crowns or Eso+ to get access to the new dungeons is up to the person but either way the person need to pay with RL money to get access to the new content unless that person want to buy it with In Game Gold from another player, which I think is the problem for many people, you wont be able to buy it with In Game Currency.

If they would make the dungeons available for crowns make them not giftable in Crownstore or Eso+ would be useless.

I have had Eso+ sub since I started playing this game in 2019 and if I quit the sub today I dont get access to all the dlc i have been paying to get for over 5 years isnt that weirder then they not selling a dlc for 2k crowns?

@Chilly-McFreeze

Chilly-McFreeze wrote: »

fizzylu wrote: »

Also.... there's a reason why Zenimax had to make the choice to go away from a mandatory sub to begin with.

Tell me, what was the reason for ZOS to do away the mandatory sub? Was it to pull more players because ESO's launch was seen as rather bad?

fizzylu wrote: »

So, once you buy ESO+, you will get craft bag... and other things that will mess up all your inventory management & interrupt how you play the game in other means (like housing furniture limit etc). If you will not keep "iron discipline" (and chances are you will just make a simple mistake at some point) then once ESO+ ends - you are left screwed with all the mess... and you are quite literally "forced" to use ESO+ again to fix that...

Could you explain how moving your crafting items from inventory to craft bag messes up your inventory management? Can't get my head around it. If ESO+ expires your items remain in the bag. Everything you pick up afterwards goes into your inventory as usual. When you craft it uses the items from your bag first. Where is the issue?
But TBF I could see a slight issue in the one in the housing furniture limit reduction. I suspect items above the limit stay in place, you simply can't add anymore. Just like the with bank space. So again, marginal issue.

I didn't write that second quote so I won't answer that part, haha. Seems something went wrong when you were quoting replies.

But about the removal of the mandatory sub:
When ESO first launched it was released with a box price and a mandatory sub. Many people quit within the first week and it never really got near to a sizeable playerbase some other MMOs, especially mandatory sub ones, have. Games with a mandatory sub rely on consistent amounts of players, and this was something ESO has always struggled with. So ultimately they removed the sub and went the "micro transaction" store route, instead choosing to switch their marketing tactics to the handful of loyal players who did actually like the game and will possibly whale for them.
Now, going off of other MMOs I've seen do things like this.... I would say considering they kept the box price and have never implemented a regular free trial system, they didn't get rid of the mandatory sub to pull in more new players (they would have gone truly f2p if that was the case).... but instead just to actually make money off of the ones they did have since clearly they weren't sustaining a playerbase big enough to profit from a mandatory sub.

XSTRONG wrote: »

Soarora wrote: »

XSTRONG wrote: »

licenturion wrote: »

Just read the announcement on the official new page.

As mentioned above, if you wish to tackle these two new Alliance War-themed dungeons, you’ll need an active ESO Plus membership. The dungeon DLC will NOT be available for purchase for crowns at launch.

This is a bad move and sets a really bad precedent for the upcoming seasonal stuff.

I will wait until they are for sale at some point or wait until there is another trial week. Or just wait out a year of content and grab everything with one month of ESO+. No need for buying crowns either in sale because DLC was my main use for crowns. It will be a cheap year for a patient gamer.

I wonder also if this will affect matchmaking times for group finder now that a part of the community is excluded.

What do other think of this?

New content for paying players are a good thing in my opinion.

You can do that without making people unable to get the DLC any other way by letting ESO+ subscribers get access to the dungeons DLCs like they always have been able to. Paying for the DLCs specifically isn’t not paying, its paying a different way.

If someone want to buy Crowns or Eso+ to get access to the new dungeons is up to the person but either way the person need to pay with RL money to get access to the new content unless that person want to buy it with In Game Gold from another player, which I think is the problem for many people, you wont be able to buy it with In Game Currency.

If they would make the dungeons available for crowns make them not giftable in Crownstore or Eso+ would be useless

Even if someone does pay another player for their ESO+ crowns, that means the person with ESO+ gets the benefit of millions of gold. Most people with ESO+ are not jumping for joy at new dungeons. I understand ESO+ only quests taking place in already existing zones or making new zones be temporarily ESO+ exclusive. The problem here is that this is group content for a community that is made of people PuGging (queue times may be longer) and tight-knit groups (friends have to be left behind or no one in the group can play the content). The already small (as I said previously, its to the point people generally seem to not realize it exists) community will be fragmented between the haves (eso+, can do the content immediately, come up with strats, potentially spoil everyone else so they can’t do blind runs, get to teach pugs if the pugs want taught) and the have nots (everyone who has to wait to buy the DLC, friends may have the achievements already, itll be harder to find good groups to get the tri as the hype will have died down, dungeon may be nerfed in difficulty by this time).

That said, while buying the DLCs directly with crowns myself wouldn’t solve my friend problem, I’d buy the DLCs instead of buying ESO+. I’d still be unhappy, but less unhappy.

I always think as the forum here as the niche people, but it seems this topic is now also being discussed on Reddit and X by quite a lot people.

The general sentiment remains negative and I hope this backfires spectacularly.

I am quite surprised at a few takes here are people that find it a good idea to split the player base and take options away to add more value to ESO+. You create value by adding QOL things to it, not by taking things away of other customers.

LalMirchi wrote: »

My take on this is that I think the game should be entirely subscriber based. An active paying subscription required to even login.

The free aspect IMHO does not bring in any realistic revenue and while that might boost & boast player numbers the free players do not bring any money to the table.

They already tried that in 2014(mandatory sub). The game almost died and only survived because of the Elder Scrolls IP, Console launch/Change to B2P model with optional sub in 2015 and later ''One Tamriel'' in 2016.