New dungeon pack not for sale, 'ESO+ only' for a limited time. (updated again 07/03)

Coerfroid · January 10

While I can partly understand that this way of selling content is lewss desirable for some players, for me and most subscribers it is actually good news.
Dungeon DLC (and likely future seasonal content) will remain free for subscribers (while sub is running). This is a favourable solution, as it puts value in the subscrition.
In the wake of Matts announcement, there had been some concerns on the future of monetarisation of the game with no more chapters to sell. If upcoming seasonal content is handled the same way, it will be just fine for subscribers.
None-subscribers can still select to purchase later for crowns or just invest the money allegedly spent for crowns in temporary subscription. Not optimal for some, but maybe overall good for most.
Of course, maybe it is premature to evaluate the new system right now, before more details are available, but actually, the news made me more confident than the first announcement in december.
After all, this is a business and the market decides (i.e. you, tha players). If enjoying a game for the offered price and conditions sounds fair for you, you will probably do the deal. If you prefer to get less for paying less or waiting longer, then there's that option as well.
If you don't like any of the deals offered, there may be other offers (games) on the market. Nobody will blame you if you decide to quit ESO because e.g. WOW offers the better deal...

Chilly-McFreeze · January 10

fizzylu wrote: »

Also.... there's a reason why Zenimax had to make the choice to go away from a mandatory sub to begin with.

Tell me, what was the reason for ZOS to do away the mandatory sub? Was it to pull more players because ESO's launch was seen as rather bad?

fizzylu wrote: »

So, once you buy ESO+, you will get craft bag... and other things that will mess up all your inventory management & interrupt how you play the game in other means (like housing furniture limit etc). If you will not keep "iron discipline" (and chances are you will just make a simple mistake at some point) then once ESO+ ends - you are left screwed with all the mess... and you are quite literally "forced" to use ESO+ again to fix that...

Could you explain how moving your crafting items from inventory to craft bag messes up your inventory management? Can't get my head around it. If ESO+ expires your items remain in the bag. Everything you pick up afterwards goes into your inventory as usual. When you craft it uses the items from your bag first. Where is the issue?
But TBF I could see a slight issue in the one in the housing furniture limit reduction. I suspect items above the limit stay in place, you simply can't add anymore. Just like the with bank space. So again, marginal issue.

AlterBlika · January 10

CoolBlast3 wrote: »

but if you sub to play at launch you'll still have the crowns to buy them once they're out at least?

The thing is, I already have the crowns for another dungeon pack...

licenturion · January 10

Coerfroid wrote: »

After all, this is a business and the market decides (i.e. you, tha players). If enjoying a game for the offered price and conditions sounds fair for you, you will probably do the deal. If you prefer to get less for paying less or waiting longer, then there's that option as well.
If you don't like any of the deals offered, there may be other offers (games) on the market. Nobody will blame you if you decide to quit ESO because e.g. WOW offers the better deal...

The whole point is that there is no reason to split the player base in 2 after a decade. You have hardcore players who play all the time and likely have ESO+ and then you have more casual players who buy the content with crowns and play it in between other games. But we always had the option to buy stuff and play together day one without some extra early access formula.

I was a player who usually pre-ordered the deluxe edition of the chapters without problem and anticipated it's release. But if this will become the norm for the seasons too, then ESO will become a game I no longer follow reveals for and just check in every 8 or 10 months to see what is new and binge the content, just like I do with streaming. And if I want to just check out the visuals I can always play on the PTS and come back later when it is for sale.

For people who have ESO+ this is a no brainer, but for all those who don't, this can be another reason to drive players away to other games or make them less engaged with the game.

Northwold · January 10

Ph1p wrote: »

As I just wrote in the official feedback thread, I think this almost borders on being fraudulent. It is a sudden change from long-established practice and it devalues the Crowns that people bought in the past. Someone who purchased Crowns in a recent sale could have reasonably assumed that they could use those to buy the next dungeon DLC, but that's moot now.

Is it actually illegal? Probably not. Is it anti-consumer behavior that will erode trust and lose goodwill with the community? Well, I'm really curious how the decision makers at ZOS would answer this question...

This seems like a stretch. Well, no it doesn't, it seems untenable.

Your ability to buy existing products with crowns is unaffected, and to suggest that not being able to use crowns for products made *in the future*, when they were never, ever sold as such, is somehow "fraudulent" doesn't make any sense. If that were fraudulent, you would in effect be shackling publishers to existing pricing models for all time based on promises they never made but players imagined.

AzuraFan · January 10

licenturion wrote: »

I can buy the DLC once for those 2 beers and play it indefinity without spending again next month.

This is true, and it raises the question about what value ESO+ offers for most players beyond the craft bag. There was a poll recently and more than half of people voted they wouldn't subscribe if the craft bag went away. That's a big chunk of subs.

ZOS has to add more value to ESO+ because what you get for your sub has actually been decreasing (Q3 and Q4 DLCs went away). So maybe part of this is to add more value to the subscription, because now the annual chapter DLC is going away too. Of course, the sub price hasn't changed, so they have to do something or people will really start to get annoyed that they're paying the same for less.

Maybe this is a test to see if it increases subs, and the test could inform how they monetize seasons. Guess we'll see.

(I'm a subscriber so this doesn't bother me, though I can see how it would bother folks who aren't.)

Ph1p · January 10

Northwold wrote: »

Ph1p wrote: »

As I just wrote in the official feedback thread, I think this almost borders on being fraudulent. It is a sudden change from long-established practice and it devalues the Crowns that people bought in the past. Someone who purchased Crowns in a recent sale could have reasonably assumed that they could use those to buy the next dungeon DLC, but that's moot now.

Is it actually illegal? Probably not. Is it anti-consumer behavior that will erode trust and lose goodwill with the community? Well, I'm really curious how the decision makers at ZOS would answer this question...

This seems like a stretch. Well, no it doesn't, it seems untenable.

Your ability to buy existing products with crowns is unaffected, and to suggest that not being able to use crowns for products made *in the future*, when they were never, ever sold as such, is somehow "fraudulent" doesn't make any sense. If that were fraudulent, you would in effect be shackling publishers to existing pricing models for all time based on promises they never made but players imagined.

How were Crowns "never, ever sold" as something that can be used for "products made in the future"?! I don't even know where to start with such a ridiculous statement. Someone who buys Crowns absolutely expects to be able to use them to purchase future types of Crown Crates, for example. Of course ZOS can change their pricing models all they want. But doing so less than a month after a Crown sale and just two months before release...

To be clear, I don't expect the new seasons or novel items to be available for Crowns. I don't even expect the Crown price for dungeons to stay the same. I did expect being able to buy DLC dungeons with Crowns at launch, because that has been the norm for every single dungeon pack in the entire history of ESO. That's not a player imagining things. It's also literally
the first item in the description of the Crown Store website:

Sakiri · January 10

Ph1p wrote: »

As I just wrote in the official feedback thread, I think this almost borders on being fraudulent. It is a sudden change from long-established practice and it devalues the Crowns that people bought in the past. Someone who purchased Crowns in a recent sale could have reasonably assumed that they could use those to buy the next dungeon DLC, but that's moot now.

Is it actually illegal? Probably not. Is it anti-consumer behavior that will erode trust and lose goodwill with the community? Well, I'm really curious how the decision makers at ZOS would answer this question...

It's not fraudulent. Companies change marketing strategies all the time.

licenturion · January 10

AzuraFan wrote: »

ZOS has to add more value to ESO+ because what you get for your sub has actually been decreasing (Q3 and Q4 DLCs went away). So maybe part of this is to add more value to the subscription, because now the annual chapter DLC is going away too.

This isn't true since blackwood. The extra content like companions and the Q4 zones were part of the chapter and given away for free with community challenges. If you had the chapter, you could claim the content for free for a month.

But yeah this is probably a test to try to milk ESO subs for this and in April they probably announce some year-pass where this and other seasons are included. That said, instead of my 1500 crowns, I won't spend nothing. And my hype levels for the and subsequent reveals are at an all time low if an early access fee is introduced.

xclassgaming · January 10

CoolBlast3 wrote: »

I don't really see the issue here. We all knew ZOS was going to hammer down monetization to make up for the lack of Chapter sales. If all they do is ESO+ then like...who cares?

Do people actually buy dungeons with crowns? That's such a waste of money honestly, they've never been worth the price.

I was expecting them to do something way more ridiculous than just making ESO+ more important, like quadrupling crown store prices lmao. Won't be the end of the game don't worry. FFXIV has a mandatory sub, paid expansions and a cash shop and it's doing just fine. If all they do is put seasonal content behind ESO+ for a while then like, whatever honestly. They specified at launch, which implies it'll probably go out of ESO+ and for purchase once a new "season" is available. That last part is speculation of course, but lets wait and see.

The one thing I'd like to see however, with dungeons locked behind a monthly sub, is motifs dropping at LAUNCH. Instead of waiting 3-6 months for them...

100% right.

Sakiri · January 10

ssewallb14_ESO wrote: »

This nearly doubles the cost of the game for b2p players.

This seems like a catastrophically bad pivot for a 10 year old game with the player base dying off.

Most of those b2p players spend more than 15 a month on crowns. Subs cheaper.

Still can't figure out aversion to game subscriptions. This same type will glady fork out for Hulu, crunchyroll, Netflix, etc, but can't drop a stop at mcds for the game.

Sakiri · January 10

merevie wrote: »

A large number of people are casual -a couple of hours here and there.
When they come in they want to do content with friends or their guild.
They'll come in, find out they must subscribe to join their mates, and log right out.

I played beta -then when the sub model was apparent, did not touch the game again until One Tam for exactly this reason.

I had New World -played 9 months (left ESO)-and due to the way they treated customers e.g. making all our old gear worthless -and their sub model -uninstalled. I believe about six million people uninstalled in a matter of months.

So Zos is either very, very confident in its market projections, or about to become bankrupt.

Currently I choose to have ESO+. It's a choice. I choose which chapters or DLC I want. That's okay with me.
Players need to be able to choose with crowns, gifting and play-to-earn rewards.

I'm paying three game subs at and have zero issues doing it. I still own all the dlc so I could drop it and still do stuff, but the stuff I do requires the sub.

I personally wish they'd never dropped the sub model. It's more reliable income.

As for the competition, I guess you've never seen ffxiv mogstation? Cosmetics galore for anywhere between 2 and 30+ bucks.

Sakiri · January 10

Soarora wrote: »

RomanRex wrote: »

Soarora wrote: »

xclassgaming wrote: »

I like this; and i hope this is how seasons are montersied i'd rather just pay my yearly eso+ alone; then my yearly eso+ and the chapter/season.

It’d be fine if it was this way for solo story content, the problem here is that this is group content. So everyone in ones circle has to buy eso+, assuming that they are actually able to do so, in order to not be left behind or hold everyone else up.

They’ve signaled that Seasons will follow the same model.

No one who left is going to be motivated to return, knowing they’ll need a monthly subscription now—especially if they’ve already spent hundreds on previous DLC.

By shifting their business model, they’re essentially forcing subscriptions to access content and participate in the community. It feels like a deliberate move to lock players in, rather than providing genuine value for the cost.

Right, ESO+ has a lot of value if you haven’t already bought all of the DLC but if you have then… well…
I know personally that the people I know (and myself) stopped paying ESO+ due to ZOS’ decisions, so making more bad decisions pushes them away from playing the game at all instead of towards buying ESO+.

Edit: let alone people who cannot buy eso+ either due to life circumstances and/or regional issues. Someone else cannot get the DLC for them.

Bank space, housing slots and the craft bag are worth the almost 11 usd I pay after exchange for the sub.

Sakiri · January 10

LatentBuzzard wrote: »

KekwLord3000 wrote: »

To be fair there isn't a huge rush to do new dungeons, besides them being new.
Cause motifs will drop in like 6-7 months from now? with the mask in 1-2 years.
Only reason to do dungeons asap is if there was a meta set that you had to get or else you will fall behind, which isn't the case at least that's what I've heard that the sets there are kinda meh at best.

You're assuming that they're going to continue doing what they've always done, whilst they do the thing they've never done before. The sets may seem "meh" at the moment (assuming that doesn't change during PTS) but they can still start releasing the motifs / masks sooner and lock antiquity leads / event tickets behind those dungeons. They're not going to just hope that people wander into the increased subscriptions model, they will introduce sources of FOMO to push people in that direction.

Omg they're trying something new.

Wasn't the problem that everything was stale, content release wise?

spartaxoxo · January 10

Sakiri wrote: »

LatentBuzzard wrote: »

KekwLord3000 wrote: »

To be fair there isn't a huge rush to do new dungeons, besides them being new.
Cause motifs will drop in like 6-7 months from now? with the mask in 1-2 years.
Only reason to do dungeons asap is if there was a meta set that you had to get or else you will fall behind, which isn't the case at least that's what I've heard that the sets there are kinda meh at best.

You're assuming that they're going to continue doing what they've always done, whilst they do the thing they've never done before. The sets may seem "meh" at the moment (assuming that doesn't change during PTS) but they can still start releasing the motifs / masks sooner and lock antiquity leads / event tickets behind those dungeons. They're not going to just hope that people wander into the increased subscriptions model, they will introduce sources of FOMO to push people in that direction.

Omg they're trying something new.

Wasn't the problem that everything was stale, content release wise?

How does this change up the content? All I can personally see as a subscriber is I'll have less people to run new dungeons with. And charging buy to play players more money.

Alinhbo_Tyaka · January 10

Sakiri wrote: »

merevie wrote: »

A large number of people are casual -a couple of hours here and there.
When they come in they want to do content with friends or their guild.
They'll come in, find out they must subscribe to join their mates, and log right out.

I played beta -then when the sub model was apparent, did not touch the game again until One Tam for exactly this reason.

I had New World -played 9 months (left ESO)-and due to the way they treated customers e.g. making all our old gear worthless -and their sub model -uninstalled. I believe about six million people uninstalled in a matter of months.

So Zos is either very, very confident in its market projections, or about to become bankrupt.

Currently I choose to have ESO+. It's a choice. I choose which chapters or DLC I want. That's okay with me.
Players need to be able to choose with crowns, gifting and play-to-earn rewards.

I'm paying three game subs at and have zero issues doing it. I still own all the dlc so I could drop it and still do stuff, but the stuff I do requires the sub.

I personally wish they'd never dropped the sub model. It's more reliable income.

As for the competition, I guess you've never seen ffxiv mogstation? Cosmetics galore for anywhere between 2 and 30+ bucks.

However FFXIV offers many more rewards such as mounts and pets in-game or via crafting unlike ESO who has always been kind of stingy when it comes to in-game rewards other than armor sets.

Greystag · January 10

This is, at least for me, a really bad change. I've been buying DLC instead of Subbing for years, and own every single DLC. This is because I'd rather buy 30€ worth of DLC per year than spend almost 4 times that on an ongoing subscription. For all the benefits of ESO+, it is temporary, and you're renting content, not buying it.

I really, really don't like this, and I hope it is changed back, especially if they're planning on doing the same with Zone DLC.

I also know people who stocked up on Crowns during sales with DLC releases in mind. Changing your business model on a whim like this is not a good look, and it'll hurt these players.

LatentBuzzard · January 10

Sakiri wrote: »

Omg they're trying something new.

You seem to have neither read nor understood my post so try again.

Sakiri wrote: »

Wasn't the problem that everything was stale, content release wise?

No, that wasn't the problem. The problem is that they were failing to deliver on their game and failing to deliver via a yearly update or several updates is still failure to deliver. There may have been some people that said the release schedule was getting stale but that was dwarfed by the number of people raising the issues of bugs, lag spikes, scaled down content, grindy content, bad monetization practices, lack of QoL updates etc.

JustLovely · January 10

Quackery wrote: »

It's just 10 dollars A MONTH, i.e. avoid drinking 2 beers and you'll be fine. You get an insane amount of value for that 10 dollars.

It's $15/month USD.

Thysbe · January 10

not good news, but was to be expected - they need cash income in place of the chapters. The later I was happy to pay for, since it felt like buying content I can go back to as often and as much as I wanted. All DLC I got for gold-traded crowns.

I wouldn´t even mind to pay 15 EUR for the DLC, but not a 125 a year having nothing to go back to in to next year. For the same amount i get at least 2 current AAA titles like BG3, Elden Ring, Black Myth Wukong, Civ VII.

I will grudgingly pay one month - feeling forced to do so - to get the HM clear and most of the achievements, probabaly too tight a schedule for the triples. If I will stay with my triple goup when only the "new" dungeons are left I highly doubt.

JustLovely · January 10

This is the kind of marketing strategy that makes me less likely to participate, not more likely.

When these kinds of changes take place they only get amplified further in the future.

This is a really bad sign of things to come. And if they go all in with the proposed changes to Cyrodiil I think we can expect the PvP community to lose players even faster than it already is.

I'm worried for the future of my favorite game.

virtus753 · January 10

JustLovely wrote: »

Quackery wrote: »

It's just 10 dollars A MONTH, i.e. avoid drinking 2 beers and you'll be fine. You get an insane amount of value for that 10 dollars.

It's $15/month USD.

It varies depending on the term of your subscription.

Lyraen_Skyforge · January 10

virtus753 wrote: »

JustLovely wrote: »

Quackery wrote: »

It's just 10 dollars A MONTH, i.e. avoid drinking 2 beers and you'll be fine. You get an insane amount of value for that 10 dollars.

It's $15/month USD.

It varies depending on the term of your subscription.

“Pay more to save more.” 👍🏻

If you’re unsure you’ll still be playing the game in 3, 6, or 12 months, committing to ESO+ is a risky investment that could go to waste. When competitor games are released, ESO+ will feel more like a tether to a 10-year-old game than a benefit.

TaSheen · January 10

RomanRex wrote: »

virtus753 wrote: »

JustLovely wrote: »

Quackery wrote: »

It's just 10 dollars A MONTH, i.e. avoid drinking 2 beers and you'll be fine. You get an insane amount of value for that 10 dollars.

It's $15/month USD.

It varies depending on the term of your subscription.

“Pay more to save more.” 👍🏻

If you’re unsure you’ll still be playing the game in 3, 6, or 12 months, committing to ESO+ is a risky investment that could go to waste. When competitor games are released, ESO+ will feel more like a tether to a 10-year-old game than a benefit.

Depends. For me personally, the only "competitor" games are the TES single player titles (notably Oblivion and Skyrim at this point since TES VI is vaporware AFAIC). There's not another game or franchise out there I'd even consider playing....

Soarora · January 10

Sakiri wrote: »

ssewallb14_ESO wrote: »

This nearly doubles the cost of the game for b2p players.

This seems like a catastrophically bad pivot for a 10 year old game with the player base dying off.

Most of those b2p players spend more than 15 a month on crowns. Subs cheaper.

Still can't figure out aversion to game subscriptions. This same type will glady fork out for Hulu, crunchyroll, Netflix, etc, but can't drop a stop at mcds for the game.

I bought all the DLCs through trading with players who had crowns because I dropped my eso+ subscription as a “vote with my wallet” situation. I cannot convince MY FRIENDS to buy eso+ for they are in the same boat. But also, I am unemployed and subscriptions are thus not so much a no-brainer for I lack the income to budget. I do not have any subscriptions for anything at the moment. Again, I would be less bothered if this was the new strategy for questing content. The problem is that this is group content and thus the entire friend group has to now have eso+ or be left behind. We cannot “just wait” because ZOS has a tendency to nerf dungeons over time and it reduces the competitiveness for us who do the top end of dungeoning.

Lyraen_Skyforge · January 10

Soarora wrote: »

Sakiri wrote: »

ssewallb14_ESO wrote: »

This nearly doubles the cost of the game for b2p players.

This seems like a catastrophically bad pivot for a 10 year old game with the player base dying off.

Most of those b2p players spend more than 15 a month on crowns. Subs cheaper.

Still can't figure out aversion to game subscriptions. This same type will glady fork out for Hulu, crunchyroll, Netflix, etc, but can't drop a stop at mcds for the game.

I bought all the DLCs through trading with players who had crowns because I dropped my eso+ subscription as a “vote with my wallet” situation. I cannot convince MY FRIENDS to buy eso+ for they are in the same boat. But also, I am unemployed and subscriptions are thus not so much a no-brainer for I lack the income to budget. I do not have any subscriptions for anything at the moment. Again, I would be less bothered if this was the new strategy for questing content. The problem is that this is group content and thus the entire friend group has to now have eso+ or be left behind. We cannot “just wait” because ZOS has a tendency to nerf dungeons over time and it reduces the competitiveness for us who do the top end of dungeoning.

As mentioned above, you’ll need ESO+ not only to access the dungeons but also for everything tied to them, like sets, lead drops, achievements, and more.

This is a much bigger issue for many players than it might seem on the surface. The shift toward mandatory subscriptions is clearly an attempt to extract more money from a shrinking player base. However, this strategy is likely to backfire, driving even more players away and making the extraction increasingly burdensome for those who remain.

Instead of fostering loyalty or incentivizing players to stay, it’s creating a system where the remaining community feels increasingly exploited. Mandatory subscriptions are just the beginning of this intensifying monetization trend.

AzuraFan · January 10

licenturion wrote: »

AzuraFan wrote: »

ZOS has to add more value to ESO+ because what you get for your sub has actually been decreasing (Q3 and Q4 DLCs went away). So maybe part of this is to add more value to the subscription, because now the annual chapter DLC is going away too.

This isn't true since blackwood. The extra content like companions and the Q4 zones were part of the chapter and given away for free with community challenges. If you had the chapter, you could claim the content for free for a month.

Giving away the Q4 DLC to everyone (when there was a Q4 DLC) devalued the ESO+ sub.

Let's say you subscribe to something that gives you access to a barrel. Everyone else has to pay for it. Suddenly the company gives the barrel to everyone for free. Sure, you get the barrel too, but you don't need a sub for that. So effectively the company has removed access to the barrel from the benefits of subbing. With no price reduction, you're getting less for your sub than you used to.

It's gone further than that. ESO+ used to include 3 quarterly DLCs and one annual DLC (a year later) per year. Now it includes 1 quarterly DLC and that's it. But no price reduction.

Anyway, the bottom line is that ZOS is going to continue to experiment with monetization now that the annual chapter is gone. In this case, I think they want to encourage people to sub because subs are a stable income for them every month.

Soarora · January 10

RomanRex wrote: »

Soarora wrote: »

Sakiri wrote: »

ssewallb14_ESO wrote: »

This nearly doubles the cost of the game for b2p players.

This seems like a catastrophically bad pivot for a 10 year old game with the player base dying off.

Most of those b2p players spend more than 15 a month on crowns. Subs cheaper.

Still can't figure out aversion to game subscriptions. This same type will glady fork out for Hulu, crunchyroll, Netflix, etc, but can't drop a stop at mcds for the game.

I bought all the DLCs through trading with players who had crowns because I dropped my eso+ subscription as a “vote with my wallet” situation. I cannot convince MY FRIENDS to buy eso+ for they are in the same boat. But also, I am unemployed and subscriptions are thus not so much a no-brainer for I lack the income to budget. I do not have any subscriptions for anything at the moment. Again, I would be less bothered if this was the new strategy for questing content. The problem is that this is group content and thus the entire friend group has to now have eso+ or be left behind. We cannot “just wait” because ZOS has a tendency to nerf dungeons over time and it reduces the competitiveness for us who do the top end of dungeoning.

As mentioned above, you’ll need ESO+ not only to access the dungeons but also for everything tied to them, like sets, lead drops, achievements, and more.

This is a much bigger issue for many players than it might seem on the surface. The shift toward mandatory subscriptions is clearly an attempt to extract more money from a shrinking player base. However, this strategy is likely to backfire, driving even more players away and making the extraction increasingly burdensome for those who remain.

Instead of fostering loyalty or incentivizing players to stay, it’s creating a system where the remaining community feels increasingly exploited. Mandatory subscriptions are just the beginning of this intensifying monetization trend.

Great comment here all around. Requiring eso+ for group content is also going to split the population between people who have eso+ already and people who cannot or will not buy eso+ due to not having money, regional prices being too high, displeasure with the game, etc. which… introduces classism to ESO? Instead of having multiple ways to get to the same goal (spending more upfront to get the content forever or spending less upfront to rent the content but get other bonuses), it becomes a haves versus haves-not with who has eso+ and who doesn’t. The criticism on us sounds to be assuming that we can just buy eso+, that we’re silly for not just buying eso+ because in the short term its cheaper, and that its good for people who already have eso+. Even if I had eso+ still I would be unhappy because I would have to leave my friends behind.

AzuraFan wrote: »

licenturion wrote: »

AzuraFan wrote: »

ZOS has to add more value to ESO+ because what you get for your sub has actually been decreasing (Q3 and Q4 DLCs went away). So maybe part of this is to add more value to the subscription, because now the annual chapter DLC is going away too.

This isn't true since blackwood. The extra content like companions and the Q4 zones were part of the chapter and given away for free with community challenges. If you had the chapter, you could claim the content for free for a month.

Anyway, the bottom line is that ZOS is going to continue to experiment with monetization now that the annual chapter is gone. In this case, I think they want to encourage people to sub because subs are a stable income for them every month.

I understand why they would go this route but we are still allowed to criticize it and explain the impacts on our scenarios.

peacenote · January 10

Ph1p wrote: »

Artem_gig wrote: »

Again, a lot of discontent out of nowhere... You will still be able to buy them, just not right away, but when they move to the crown store... Is this such a big problem? What a stupid idea, to wait a year and then complete the released dungeons in a month. They will no longer require a subscription and can be purchased for crowns, as you wanted... With this logic, nothing stopped you from doing the same before...

This is really not that hard to understand. Just consider the following situation:
It has always been possible to buy a dungeon DLC with Crowns and play it from launch with your friends.

I have already paid ZOS money for Crowns to buy the next dungeon pack at launch, but that's not an option any more.

So to play with my friends, I now have to buy ESO+ on top of what I already spent on Crowns.

If I wait, I miss out on running dungeons with my friends and the fun of progressing together. So I get less value for the Crowns I have bought.

Look, I fully get that ZOS wants people to subscribe and I don't expect anything for free. I also know that for many people this makes no difference. But please understand that to some players, ZOS is essentially saying: "Thank you for your purchase of Crowns. They are now less valuable than you thought. Give us more money and subscribe, or you won't be able to play with your friends like you used to."

I am an ESO+ subscriber and I periodically buy crowns (although significantly less due to AwA, and I completely boycotted for a while). I have not paused my subscription since beta. I only subscribe to one game, and only play one MMO at a time, and am lucky enough that I've never had to pause my subscription due to a financial hardship. I say this to give context to my stance.

I completely agree with you. Nothing good can come from splitting/delaying access to group content for part of our community.

First, what you said here "If I wait, I miss out on running dungeons with my friends and the fun of progressing together" is really important. Probably even more important for trials, but is important for dungeons too. There is something magical and fun about exploring new content right out of the gate, with friends, when no one has seen it and you're all learning together. Some people who play group content may not care about this, and I suspect some people who play group content don't understand that they care about this... but I do. To the point that I get disappointed when real life gets in the way of joining my friends to explore the new group content. There is a limited window where new dungeons and new trials can feel a little bit like starting a new MMO from scratch. Where most people, except for PTS testers, entering the content all don't know what to expect. Yes, if you just want to play the content to see it and get the gear or motifs or whatever, it doesn't matter if it is delayed. But you will miss out on that time when it's new for everyone. And you can't recreate or fake that if you have particular friends that you run with.

Second, (and I know this is controversial) I actually think ZOS should release the DLC dungeons into base game after six months to a year of being out. I think the split of base vs. DLC for the non sub queue is problematic. I think the fact that non-subscribers mainly get "fast dungeons" greatly exacerbates the speed running problem, because that part of the community has been fed an expectation for how fast a dungeon run should be. And, as a subscriber, it is such a bummer to not be able to bring a friend into group content because they haven't purchased it. Yes, ZOS needs to make money, but as a subscriber, I seriously want all group content to be available to everyone as soon as possible.

Driving people to a subscription-based model is a complex issue and not unique to ZOS. I don't envy them this problem and I don't have a good solution, because it's a problem everywhere now. EVERYTHING is subscription-based, from Microsoft Office to Netflix to the app I use to track what I eat. I disliked the trend as it become more widespread, and I dislike it now. I personally never minded subscribing to an MMO (it's probably the first thing I ever had a subscription for, actually) but it was because I only ever had the capacity to play one at a time. And I actively used the subscription because I used it every week, so it seemed fair to me. Now, with everything on subscription, there's no way everyone is going to be able to afford to subscribe to everything. I know I can't. And costs keep rising. And subscriptions are required for software and media and tools that we might not use regularly, but only periodically, and that feels wrong to me. At some point, something has to give.

I happily subscribe to ESO+ because ESO is my only MMO. But I also know that everyone can't afford to do this, in some cases there are actually technical issues to subscribing in certain countries (or there were), and some people play lots of different games. Those people are important in our community, too. We need them to play our dungeons and trials and to keep the world feeling "alive." If it were me, I would delay access to and tie only to ESO+ pretty much anything other than group content. I guess we'll see how it turns out, but hopefully ZOS doesn't really think they can convert most non-subscribers to become subscribers with this method. There's just too many things out there requiring subscription these days.

AzuraFan · January 10

Soarora wrote: »

AzuraFan wrote: »

Anyway, the bottom line is that ZOS is going to continue to experiment with monetization now that the annual chapter is gone. In this case, I think they want to encourage people to sub because subs are a stable income for them every month.

I understand why they would go this route but we are still allowed to criticize it and explain the impacts on our scenarios.

Of course. I don't see where I said otherwise. In fact, I said in my other post that I can understand why people are irritated by it. Perhaps you quoted the wrong person. It happens.