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Moderation and censorship is out of hand
-
DenverRalphy✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭Can someone explain why people type in chat channels that no one else can see? I have seen multiple people complain about being alone in an instance or using /say with no player nearby and having action taken against them for their words. But why were they typing?
Players on these forums claim a lot of things simply because it's the topic of the day/week/month. Though if you look deeply enough, you'll fiind the veracity of those claims are often/usually questionable.
Edited by DenverRalphy on December 30, 2024 10:03PM6 -
spartaxoxo✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Can someone explain why people type in chat channels that no one else can see? I have seen multiple people complain about being alone in an instance or using /say with no player nearby and having action taken against them for their words. But why were they typing?
Roleplay. Venting. Accident.9 -
blktauna✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭DenverRalphy wrote: »Can someone explain why people type in chat channels that no one else can see? I have seen multiple people complain about being alone in an instance or using /say with no player nearby and having action taken against them for their words. But why were they typing?
Players on these forums claim a lot of things simply because it's the topic of the day/week/month. Though if you look deeply enough, you'll fiind the veracity of those claims are often/usually questionable.
rude.
I fat finger into chat all the time. I'm testing another game right now and there's loads of folks using /say to scream in the void. Its just a thing that gets done.
PCNA
PCEU19 -
JavaRen✭✭✭✭✭Huh, I guess I'm just wired up differently, typing to no one to vent does nothing for me, feels too seperate. Vocal venting I get.5 -
spartaxoxo✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Huh, I guess I'm just wired up differently, typing to no one to vent does nothing for me, feels too seperate. Vocal venting I get.
Not that different from when people used to write letters to nobody to vent. This way you got out what ya needed to get out and nobody else has to deal with it12 -
Oceanchanter✭✭✭i got a warning for swearing at a wb i was soloing with a 'say' command.
no one there, just me. (and big brother, it seems)
I am suddenly terrified about what I've been cursing about in group chat when presented with bugs and lag recently....
@ZOS_Kevin Honestly, don't you see a problem here? I've been on this earth a few decades now, and I can tell you when Western Civilization was at its peak, we all had dirty mouths. I just can't imagine how any reasonable person thinks this is a good idea. That's not bashing. I literally mean I cannot imagine it. Who would be okay with this happening to them?
I'm terrified as well, and I don't even use profanity.
Your kind of story was proven to be true by someone out there.
From what I can recall, the player entered dungeon alone. Nobody else was in the instance.
After using some profanity he got suspended, if memory serves.
That's how the whole conversation started I believe.
Poor Kevin. He'll have a mountain of threads to go through after he comes back from his Christmas break.
But I do hope he sheds some light on this.
In both topics about it we have two groups:
- those who say it's not true, the topic have been dressed up in a scary costume, the issue doesn't exist (or doesn't exist anymore), have different experiences with their groups and guilds
- and those who have personal anegdotes, seen things like that happening, notice dead zones, chats, groups, guild channels, and anything else that makes them think something is wrong
4 -
Koshka✭✭✭✭✭Yeah, I think it would be really nice if they clarified what is allowed and what isn't, how exactly this AI thing works and whether or not wrongful bans would be held against you in the future. This situation is unhealthy and while some of reddit/discord posts about bans might be fake, it still creates tension in the community.5 -
KiltMaster✭✭✭✭✭place a ticket they say ... like it ain't all run by AI and nearly impossible to get a human person to respond to you.PC/NA
GM of "Kilts for Sale"
twitch.tv/thekiltmaster
He/Him10 -
Amottica✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭i got a warning for swearing at a wb i was soloing with a 'say' command.
no one there, just me. (and big brother, it seems)
Say is not considered private in a dungeon, regardless of how the group was formed (per Zenimax), so it would certainly not be private and very public when out in the open world, even if we do not see someone.
Just FYI.
1 -
blktauna✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭i got a warning for swearing at a wb i was soloing with a 'say' command.
no one there, just me. (and big brother, it seems)
Say is not considered private in a dungeon, regardless of how the group was formed (per Zenimax), so it would certainly not be private and very public when out in the open world, even if we do not see someone.
Just FYI.
It isn't? Can you show me where that is?
It would be helpful to keep in a list.PCNA
PCEU1 -
Amottica✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭i got a warning for swearing at a wb i was soloing with a 'say' command.
no one there, just me. (and big brother, it seems)
Say is not considered private in a dungeon, regardless of how the group was formed (per Zenimax), so it would certainly not be private and very public when out in the open world, even if we do not see someone.
Just FYI.
It isn't? Can you show me where that is?
It would be helpful to keep in a list.
@blktauna
Keven (or another manager) said as much not long ago in reference to a comment made about /say in a dungeon that was flagged. It makes sense because a dungeon itself is not really private since GF groups can fill it. Kevin makes a lot of comments, which would be hard to find.
There is not a list, and I commented earlier in this thread that it would be beneficial to know what chat is private and what chat is not. A great example is /whisper. My guess is that it is not private, and I think it should be private since it is often used for hate messages. But what I guess is the case may not be the case.
Ok, Found is kinda.
The post this first link goes to includes that comment from Kevin. The second link is a follow-up Kevin made to the comment in the first link, agreeing that a list was a good idea and that he would talk to the team to see if they could provide us with a clearer idea of what private chat is. He does include a list, but that is just his thoughts, not an official statement.
https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/comment/8217681/#Comment_8217681
https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/comment/8217702/#Comment_8217702
Of course, private chat does not mean we can say whatever we want. Anyone that is part of that chat can report a player and the offending player's history of issues is taking into context.
I will include a link to Kevin's lengthy comment about all of this.
https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/comment/8190298#Comment_8190298
Edited by Amottica on December 31, 2024 3:30AM2 -
BloodWolfe✭✭✭✭Ya the moderation is getting absurd and ridiculous. I've chosen not to purchase a Crown pack and have cancelled my sub. Partly due to some ridiculous moderation, and other reasons that are off topic in this thread but ya the moderation is out of control. I can't say how I really feel out of fear I'll get banned, but I'll keep playing for free now and not give them anymore of my money.15 -
spartaxoxo✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Here's what Kevin had to say about private chat channels.
First quote snipped to just the relevant parts for this thread. Click the >> to see the full quote in thread.That being said, based on what they shared in their post, even though they were by themselves in a dungeon, the dungeon is a public instance. And using /say is for public proximity chat. It doesn't function as a Whisper or group chat. So if they used a slur, as implied by their post, the public chat filter is going to flag that and the user would be actioned accordingly. Again, don't know if that is why they got flagged, but that is what my guess would be. And that is why the appeal process is there.
So there isn't a disconnect. Auto-bans in private chats are not happening. I have asked leadership in customer service to confirm this. Again, final actions taken are made by people. If you run into this issue, please go through the appeal process as the best way to sort out a miscommunication. Feel free to reach out if you have issues. I can try to help where I can. Lastly, if you have friends that are running into an issue, please encourage them to either reach out and share a ticket number, or provide you with the ticket number. It makes it easier to go to customer service with ticket numbers to investigate a claim.spartaxoxo wrote: »[/Say, /zone, and /group ARE private chats depending where they occur. The general public cannot see the things I say in a private instance, including our homes. How are people expected to be able to discuss things privately with more than one person if these are all automatically considered public chat channels?So you are right, it does depend. I think in the specific example, and again this is just based on limited understanding of the example as I don't have all of the information, I would guess the flag is because they were in a dungeon, which is viewed as a public space. Different from a home for example, where we expect that to be used privately or a designated /group chat. And you should not be dinged for a private conversation. Again, this is why the appeal is there.
ETA (also snipped for brevity/relevance)spartaxoxo, you are right that things should be more clear regarding channels being viewed as public vs private. In particular, with the given example of dungeons. Homes, group chats, and whispers should be known private zone areas, but I will take this feedback to the team and see if we can find a clearer way to outline things.Edited by spartaxoxo on December 31, 2024 4:04AM6 -
ArchMikem✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭boi_anachronism_ wrote: »
"Online Interactions not rated by the ESRB"
The game content is rated M for Mature. Player interaction doesn't count as game content, and ZOS has ultimate authority over how players conduct themselves in their game.CP2,000 Master Explorer - AvA One Star General - Console Peasant - Khajiiti Aficionado - The Clan
Quest Objective: OMG Go Talk To That Kitty!3 -
Oceanchanter✭✭✭i got a warning for swearing at a wb i was soloing with a 'say' command.
no one there, just me. (and big brother, it seems)
Say is not considered private in a dungeon, regardless of how the group was formed (per Zenimax), so it would certainly not be private and very public when out in the open world, even if we do not see someone.
Just FYI.
It isn't? Can you show me where that is?
It would be helpful to keep in a list.
@blktauna
Keven (or another manager) said as much not long ago in reference to a comment made about /say in a dungeon that was flagged. It makes sense because a dungeon itself is not really private since GF groups can fill it. Kevin makes a lot of comments, which would be hard to find.
There is not a list, and I commented earlier in this thread that it would be beneficial to know what chat is private and what chat is not. A great example is /whisper. My guess is that it is not private, and I think it should be private since it is often used for hate messages. But what I guess is the case may not be the case.
Ok, Found is kinda.
The post this first link goes to includes that comment from Kevin. The second link is a follow-up Kevin made to the comment in the first link, agreeing that a list was a good idea and that he would talk to the team to see if they could provide us with a clearer idea of what private chat is. He does include a list, but that is just his thoughts, not an official statement.
https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/comment/8217681/#Comment_8217681
https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/comment/8217702/#Comment_8217702
Of course, private chat does not mean we can say whatever we want. Anyone that is part of that chat can report a player and the offending player's history of issues is taking into context.
I will include a link to Kevin's lengthy comment about all of this.
https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/comment/8190298#Comment_8190298
Oh, so it was adressed.
I missed that, but I admit I started being active here since the datacenter power outage.
It is as I feared to be worse case scenario, which is CS agents making the final decision after bot flags something.
What I mean is that you could just blame the technology for bans/suspensions, and that technology will get better overtime with training.
But with human nature in the equasion, things are just...well...
I don't mean to smear any CS agent, I really don't.
I bet majority of them do their job diligently and professionally.
With that being said, shout out to @Arunei for perfectly capturing my main concerns in this comment.
https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/comment/8190374/#Comment_8190374
For the record, it is my personal experience from other games, besites, and forums that makes me untrustful with a system working like that.
But I've seen this song and dance macabre before.
Unreported convo landing on CS Agent's desk because AI flagged it is a different case from player reporting another player for harassment.
In the first instance, you have two people bantering or RPing, a CSA becomes part of the conversation with power to suspend them both should they see fit; and with ToS being kinda vague in some places (in my opinion) it's all according to procedures.
In the second instance you have a legit situation where offended player asks for real help. Other player harasses them, perhaps has "a heated gamer moment", because they died in a Trial or something, and that's where CSA's help is truly required and the Agent themselves becomes an MVP by removing a truly toxic player.
The best solution would be to leave reporting to the offended party.
That way, community will feel more at ease talking to people. Just like before.
Tools already given to the players (report form, ignore player option, profanity filter) will make sense again.
CSAs - I imagine/speculate - would have smaller workload cause AI won't be constantly flagging convos that would be marked "okay" anyway, and would have time for other tasks.
I also understand that Digital Service Act must be followed, but last time I checked being saucy with your buddies or bantering with them is not illegal.
4 -
TheMajority✭✭✭✭✭
✭i got a warning for swearing at a wb i was soloing with a 'say' command.
no one there, just me. (and big brother, it seems)
Say is not considered private in a dungeon, regardless of how the group was formed (per Zenimax), so it would certainly not be private and very public when out in the open world, even if we do not see someone.
Just FYI.
if people don't want to see a swear, then they get to use chat filter
if I turn off chat filter to see swear, then I'm an adult and I can handle it
don't appreciate zos trying to police what im allowed to read from another player as an adultTime flies like an arrow- but fruit flies like a banana.
Sorry for my English, I do not always have a translation tool available. Thank you for your patience with our conversation and working towards our mutual understanding of the topic.24 -
Amottica✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Oceanchanter wrote: »i got a warning for swearing at a wb i was soloing with a 'say' command.
no one there, just me. (and big brother, it seems)
Say is not considered private in a dungeon, regardless of how the group was formed (per Zenimax), so it would certainly not be private and very public when out in the open world, even if we do not see someone.
Just FYI.
It isn't? Can you show me where that is?
It would be helpful to keep in a list.
@blktauna
Keven (or another manager) said as much not long ago in reference to a comment made about /say in a dungeon that was flagged. It makes sense because a dungeon itself is not really private since GF groups can fill it. Kevin makes a lot of comments, which would be hard to find.
There is not a list, and I commented earlier in this thread that it would be beneficial to know what chat is private and what chat is not. A great example is /whisper. My guess is that it is not private, and I think it should be private since it is often used for hate messages. But what I guess is the case may not be the case.
Ok, Found is kinda.
The post this first link goes to includes that comment from Kevin. The second link is a follow-up Kevin made to the comment in the first link, agreeing that a list was a good idea and that he would talk to the team to see if they could provide us with a clearer idea of what private chat is. He does include a list, but that is just his thoughts, not an official statement.
https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/comment/8217681/#Comment_8217681
https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/comment/8217702/#Comment_8217702
Of course, private chat does not mean we can say whatever we want. Anyone that is part of that chat can report a player and the offending player's history of issues is taking into context.
I will include a link to Kevin's lengthy comment about all of this.
https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/comment/8190298#Comment_8190298
Oh, so it was adressed.
I missed that, but I admit I started being active here since the datacenter power outage.
It is as I feared to be worse case scenario, which is CS agents making the final decision after bot flags something.
What I mean is that you could just blame the technology for bans/suspensions, and that technology will get better overtime with training.
But with human nature in the equasion, things are just...well...
I don't mean to smear any CS agent, I really don't.
I bet majority of them do their job diligently and professionally.
With that being said, shout out to @Arunei for perfectly capturing my main concerns in this comment.
https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/comment/8190374/#Comment_8190374
For the record, it is my personal experience from other games, besites, and forums that makes me untrustful with a system working like that.
But I've seen this song and dance macabre before.
Unreported convo landing on CS Agent's desk because AI flagged it is a different case from player reporting another player for harassment.
In the first instance, you have two people bantering or RPing, a CSA becomes part of the conversation with power to suspend them both should they see fit; and with ToS being kinda vague in some places (in my opinion) it's all according to procedures.
In the second instance you have a legit situation where offended player asks for real help. Other player harasses them, perhaps has "a heated gamer moment", because they died in a Trial or something, and that's where CSA's help is truly required and the Agent themselves becomes an MVP by removing a truly toxic player.
The best solution would be to leave reporting to the offended party.
That way, community will feel more at ease talking to people. Just like before.
Tools already given to the players (report form, ignore player option, profanity filter) will make sense again.
CSAs - I imagine/speculate - would have smaller workload cause AI won't be constantly flagging convos that would be marked "okay" anyway, and would have time for other tasks.
I also understand that Digital Service Act must be followed, but last time I checked being saucy with your buddies or bantering with them is not illegal.
Three things.
1. I would never expect everyone to see everything Zenimax has said. Heck, I was lucky even to find the comment I referred to.
2. The same people who make decisions about comments that the AI flags are the ones who look at the situations when something is reported. That is the same. The only thing that has changed is the use of the AI.
With that, as we have discussed and Kevin has acknowledged in those posts, a list of what chat methods are private and what is not. To be specific, a list of what chat is not being monitored.
3. This is not really about the banter between friends but about Zenimax being required to take action to create a safe atmosphere and tackle online harassment, as well as being transparent about how their moderation, such as informing us about the use of AI.
Kevin has stated that they are learning and making adjustments so they realize this is not perfect. So, friendly banter that uses certain words or phrases will get flagged, but as things develop, the "learning" will become less likely to lead to action being taken.
I guess there is a 4th. That is, players with a rap sheet, so to speak, are likely to find Zenimax will be less tolerant of the player and more likely to take action against them. Zenimax has said this about other things, and I think Kevin noted it in one of those linked comments.
0 -
Elsonso✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Three things.
1. I would never expect everyone to see everything Zenimax has said. Heck, I was lucky even to find the comment I referred to.
2. The same people who make decisions about comments that the AI flags are the ones who look at the situations when something is reported. That is the same. The only thing that has changed is the use of the AI.
With that, as we have discussed and Kevin has acknowledged in those posts, a list of what chat methods are private and what is not. To be specific, a list of what chat is not being monitored.
3. This is not really about the banter between friends but about Zenimax being required to take action to create a safe atmosphere and tackle online harassment, as well as being transparent about how their moderation, such as informing us about the use of AI.
Kevin has stated that they are learning and making adjustments so they realize this is not perfect. So, friendly banter that uses certain words or phrases will get flagged, but as things develop, the "learning" will become less likely to lead to action being taken.
I guess there is a 4th. That is, players with a rap sheet, so to speak, are likely to find Zenimax will be less tolerant of the player and more likely to take action against them. Zenimax has said this about other things, and I think Kevin noted it in one of those linked comments.
One thing to consider about adding AI is that they may be getting more reports in now than before. This AI tool generates a report that needs to be verified, just like a player report. I find myself wondering how the influx of additional reports are being handled and whether it can overwhelm the CS team.
The other thing is that this tool process is being tweaked while the tool is actively being used on the live servers. This does not make me feel very confident. I would have expected them to finish doing that before any players are action based on use of the tool. When it comes to bans and suspensions, I expect that much from them.
(Typo)Edited by Elsonso on January 1, 2025 1:10AMXBox EU/NA:@ElsonsoJannus
PC NA/EU: @Elsonso
PSN NA/EU: @ElsonsoJannus
Total in-game hours: 11321
X/Twitter: ElsonsoJannus5 -
EvilGoatKing✭✭✭
I guess there is a 4th. That is, players with a rap sheet, so to speak, are likely to find Zenimax will be less tolerant of the player and more likely to take action against them. Zenimax has said this about other things, and I think Kevin noted it in one of those linked comments.
Do you think that would lead people to believe that forum infractions could also affect how you are moderated in game?1 -
Lags✭✭✭✭✭
✭ZOS_Hadeostry wrote: »Let's make sure we are staying on topic, as this thread is about moderation in game. If you wanted to discuss moderation on the forums there is already a different discussion here.
this comment itself is over moderation. What happened to letting people discuss things as they pleased and moderating when someone starts acting crazy? It would be one thing for you to chime in and clarify, with a link to the other thread, but this comes off as a warning more than trying to be informative. And thats just more of the same issue.
There is a problem across the board. Forums, in game, betheseda channels twitch chat, even reddit i hear. its a massive problem and it begins and ends with zenimax overall.
As for the OP, ya i agree 1000%. I dont think they should ever ban people for swearing. I dont care what you call someone. Unless its a slur or something ridiculous. This is a rated M game. The profanity filter is there for people who dont want to play it. If you are following the rating everyone here should be adults. We are not children, we dont need to be treated as such.
Online gaming has taken such a sad turn. And even still, out of all the mmos i play, zenimax somehow manages to stand out as one of the worst offenders with over moderation. Across the board. Again, we are adults with many options in game to not have to deal with other players.
If you dont want to see swearing you turn the profanity filter on. If you dont want to see chat, you turn it off. If you dont want to talk to a specific player, you block them. We dont even have voice chat on PC, which is such a massive L imo, even if some pc players wouldnt agree. Some of the same things apply to voice chat as well, dont want it? turn it off. Dont want to talk to a single person? block them.
Its so silly that these companies feel the need to come in and treat people with kid gloves, and worse ban people, sometimes costing them thousands of hours or dollars, for the silliest reasons. For tbagging someone, having a silly name, or swearing it chat. Its so cringe.
Most of the people playing this game are adults. As they should be if its rated M. Its time to stop treating people like kids. The power should be in the players hands to choose who they want to deal with, and what they want to hear/read. And afaik it already is.16 -
Lags✭✭✭✭✭
✭Oceanchanter wrote: »i got a warning for swearing at a wb i was soloing with a 'say' command.
no one there, just me. (and big brother, it seems)
Say is not considered private in a dungeon, regardless of how the group was formed (per Zenimax), so it would certainly not be private and very public when out in the open world, even if we do not see someone.
Just FYI.
It isn't? Can you show me where that is?
It would be helpful to keep in a list.
@blktauna
Keven (or another manager) said as much not long ago in reference to a comment made about /say in a dungeon that was flagged. It makes sense because a dungeon itself is not really private since GF groups can fill it. Kevin makes a lot of comments, which would be hard to find.
There is not a list, and I commented earlier in this thread that it would be beneficial to know what chat is private and what chat is not. A great example is /whisper. My guess is that it is not private, and I think it should be private since it is often used for hate messages. But what I guess is the case may not be the case.
Ok, Found is kinda.
The post this first link goes to includes that comment from Kevin. The second link is a follow-up Kevin made to the comment in the first link, agreeing that a list was a good idea and that he would talk to the team to see if they could provide us with a clearer idea of what private chat is. He does include a list, but that is just his thoughts, not an official statement.
https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/comment/8217681/#Comment_8217681
https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/comment/8217702/#Comment_8217702
Of course, private chat does not mean we can say whatever we want. Anyone that is part of that chat can report a player and the offending player's history of issues is taking into context.
I will include a link to Kevin's lengthy comment about all of this.
https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/comment/8190298#Comment_8190298
Oh, so it was adressed.
I missed that, but I admit I started being active here since the datacenter power outage.
It is as I feared to be worse case scenario, which is CS agents making the final decision after bot flags something.
What I mean is that you could just blame the technology for bans/suspensions, and that technology will get better overtime with training.
But with human nature in the equasion, things are just...well...
I don't mean to smear any CS agent, I really don't.
I bet majority of them do their job diligently and professionally.
With that being said, shout out to @Arunei for perfectly capturing my main concerns in this comment.
https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/comment/8190374/#Comment_8190374
For the record, it is my personal experience from other games, besites, and forums that makes me untrustful with a system working like that.
But I've seen this song and dance macabre before.
Unreported convo landing on CS Agent's desk because AI flagged it is a different case from player reporting another player for harassment.
In the first instance, you have two people bantering or RPing, a CSA becomes part of the conversation with power to suspend them both should they see fit; and with ToS being kinda vague in some places (in my opinion) it's all according to procedures.
In the second instance you have a legit situation where offended player asks for real help. Other player harasses them, perhaps has "a heated gamer moment", because they died in a Trial or something, and that's where CSA's help is truly required and the Agent themselves becomes an MVP by removing a truly toxic player.
The best solution would be to leave reporting to the offended party.
That way, community will feel more at ease talking to people. Just like before.
Tools already given to the players (report form, ignore player option, profanity filter) will make sense again.
CSAs - I imagine/speculate - would have smaller workload cause AI won't be constantly flagging convos that would be marked "okay" anyway, and would have time for other tasks.
I also understand that Digital Service Act must be followed, but last time I checked being saucy with your buddies or bantering with them is not illegal.
Three things.
1. I would never expect everyone to see everything Zenimax has said. Heck, I was lucky even to find the comment I referred to.
2. The same people who make decisions about comments that the AI flags are the ones who look at the situations when something is reported. That is the same. The only thing that has changed is the use of the AI.
With that, as we have discussed and Kevin has acknowledged in those posts, a list of what chat methods are private and what is not. To be specific, a list of what chat is not being monitored.
3. This is not really about the banter between friends but about Zenimax being required to take action to create a safe atmosphere and tackle online harassment, as well as being transparent about how their moderation, such as informing us about the use of AI.
Kevin has stated that they are learning and making adjustments so they realize this is not perfect. So, friendly banter that uses certain words or phrases will get flagged, but as things develop, the "learning" will become less likely to lead to action being taken.
I guess there is a 4th. That is, players with a rap sheet, so to speak, are likely to find Zenimax will be less tolerant of the player and more likely to take action against them. Zenimax has said this about other things, and I think Kevin noted it in one of those linked comments.
How do you chat harass someone in a game where you can block people? Ya i can follow you around and throw mudballs at you 24/7. But im sorry i just dont buy into the whole harassment thing when it comes to you calling someone a name or swearing at them in chat. If i whisper you and call you an idiot, with a curse in front of it, and you instantly block me, and we never interact again, is that harassment?
Is it harassment when the guy you cut off in traffic calls you the same thing? And then drives off and you never interact again? Its just so silly. Its so childish. But again, if that same guy chases you down trying to run you off the road, its different. Just like if i target you and chase you all around the game trying to bother you. That is harassment.
The point im making is that most examples you hear from players are them just swearing. Regardless of whether its in say or guild or group or whisper it should not be happening. And if the AI is too heavy handed then they shouldnt use it, but unfortunately i have been playing this game and dealing with zos for almost 10 years and im 100% sure its not just AI. When it comes across a support agents desk, imo, they are just as likely to send it through for simply seeing the word. They say context matters, but not in my experience, and not in many others.
Its good they are trying to adjust it but the problem lies with zos. People with a "rap sheet" or their 3 strike rule, is ridiculous and such a terrible way to moderate. You should not be perma banning someone because 5 years ago they got a warning for tbagging, then 2 years ago they got a 3 day ban for a silly name, and now today they swore at someone, so its all over. That is a terrible system, but that is their system.
They should look at patterns/repeats of bad/malicious behavior. Not just how many strikes an account has for random reasons. The TOS is gigantic and convoluted. And 99% of people dont read every rule. And many people get actioned for breaking rules that any normal player wouldnt think were actually rules. You can say " but you agreed, you should read it". Ok well most people dont and wont. Plus many rules are open to interpretation, giving the CS agent carte blanche to do as they see fit, so it doesnt even matter in some cases.
I just dont think its asking much for them to treat players like adults, be reasonable with their moderation, and look at the context of each case. Things are bad enough as it is, and over moderation is just another thing, on a list of things, slowly killing this community over time.
Edited by Lags on January 1, 2025 4:23AM14 -
spartaxoxo✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭ZOS_Hadeostry wrote: »Let's make sure we are staying on topic, as this thread is about moderation in game. If you wanted to discuss moderation on the forums there is already a different discussion here.
this comment itself is over moderation. What happened to letting people discuss things as they pleased and moderating when someone starts acting crazy? It would be one thing for you to chime in and clarify, with a link to the other thread, but this comes off as a warning more than trying to be informative. And thats just more of the same issue.
I disagree. I'd rather be informed and also get a chance to course correct a thread before posts get deleted or threads closed.1 -
wilykcat✭✭✭✭✭
✭I'm an adult who finds swearing, tbagging, insults, and other forms of inappropriate behavior to be immature and offensive. I'm glad Zenimax is doing something about the inappropriate behavior in the game.
I've played other games(world of warcraft) which has less moderation and a little censorship that ended up being toxic (got cursed at and insulted in the private chat) which lead me to eventually leave those games. I don't need that to happen to me and others in eso.Edited by wilykcat on January 1, 2025 5:00AM6 -
Elsonso✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭spartaxoxo wrote: »ZOS_Hadeostry wrote: »Let's make sure we are staying on topic, as this thread is about moderation in game. If you wanted to discuss moderation on the forums there is already a different discussion here.
this comment itself is over moderation. What happened to letting people discuss things as they pleased and moderating when someone starts acting crazy? It would be one thing for you to chime in and clarify, with a link to the other thread, but this comes off as a warning more than trying to be informative. And thats just more of the same issue.
I disagree. I'd rather be informed and also get a chance to course correct a thread before posts get deleted or threads closed.
They should not close or delete the thread, either.
If the problem is across the board, I don't see a reason why it needs to be segregated into a thread for each venue. They can get together behind the curtain and sort things out. We should not have to do that for them.XBox EU/NA:@ElsonsoJannus
PC NA/EU: @Elsonso
PSN NA/EU: @ElsonsoJannus
Total in-game hours: 11321
X/Twitter: ElsonsoJannus3 -
SteveCampsOut✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭I'm an adult who finds swearing, tbagging, insults, and other forms of inappropriate behavior to be immature and offensive. I'm glad Zenimax is doing something about the inappropriate behavior in the game.
I've played other games(world of warcraft) which has less moderation and a little censorship that ended up being toxic (got cursed at and insulted in the private chat) which lead me to eventually leave those games. I don't need that to happen to me and others in eso.
Do you, as an adult, refuse to use the blocking and filtering tools provided already by ZOS? It's a simple question. It deserves an answer.@ֆȶɛʋɛƈǟʍքֆօʊȶ⍟
Sanguine & Psijic Group Beta Tester.
NA Server:Steforax Soulstrong CH782 Sorcerer ADEU Server:
Grumpy Kahjiti CH782 Dragonknight AD
Rheticia Le Drakisius CH782 Nightblade DC
Razmuzan Thrasmas CH782 Templar EP
Sheenara Soulstrong CH782 Dragonknight DC
Erik Ramzey CH782 Nightblade AD
Growling Kahjiti CH782 Nightblade EP
One of Many Faces CH782 Sorcerer DC
Grumpasaurus Rex CH782 Warden DCGuildmaster of Pacrooti's Hirelings AD Based LGBT Friendly Guild.
Stefrex Souliss CH701 Sorcerer AD
Grumpy Kahjiti CH701 Dragonknight DC
Slithisi Ksissi CH701 Nightblade EP
Pokes-With-Fire CH701 Dragonknight AD
Josie-The-Pussi-Cat CH701 Templar AD
Stug-Grog M'God CH701 Templar DC
One With Many Faces CH701 Nightblade DC
Trixie Truskan CH701 Sorcerer EP
Grumpetasaurus Rex CH701 Warden EP16 -
spartaxoxo✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭spartaxoxo wrote: »ZOS_Hadeostry wrote: »Let's make sure we are staying on topic, as this thread is about moderation in game. If you wanted to discuss moderation on the forums there is already a different discussion here.
this comment itself is over moderation. What happened to letting people discuss things as they pleased and moderating when someone starts acting crazy? It would be one thing for you to chime in and clarify, with a link to the other thread, but this comes off as a warning more than trying to be informative. And thats just more of the same issue.
I disagree. I'd rather be informed and also get a chance to course correct a thread before posts get deleted or threads closed.
They should not close or delete the thread, either.
If the problem is across the board, I don't see a reason why it needs to be segregated into a thread for each venue. They can get together behind the curtain and sort things out. We should not have to do that for them.
Because it's different teams and different threads.Edited by spartaxoxo on January 1, 2025 7:12AM0 -
SteveCampsOut✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭I do use both.
Then why do you think people should be punished for it, because, and let's be honest here. The moderation that has been going on here has very much been punitive to those of us who have experienced it. I'm going on 62 years this year of age. I've been online for years now, and I have never in all that time seen such utter disregard for treating people with dignity as I have here. It takes a very authoritarian mindset to use such extreme measures for something as simple as a perceived rudeness and sometimes just disagreement.Edited by SteveCampsOut on January 1, 2025 7:51AM@ֆȶɛʋɛƈǟʍքֆօʊȶ⍟
Sanguine & Psijic Group Beta Tester.
NA Server:Steforax Soulstrong CH782 Sorcerer ADEU Server:
Grumpy Kahjiti CH782 Dragonknight AD
Rheticia Le Drakisius CH782 Nightblade DC
Razmuzan Thrasmas CH782 Templar EP
Sheenara Soulstrong CH782 Dragonknight DC
Erik Ramzey CH782 Nightblade AD
Growling Kahjiti CH782 Nightblade EP
One of Many Faces CH782 Sorcerer DC
Grumpasaurus Rex CH782 Warden DCGuildmaster of Pacrooti's Hirelings AD Based LGBT Friendly Guild.
Stefrex Souliss CH701 Sorcerer AD
Grumpy Kahjiti CH701 Dragonknight DC
Slithisi Ksissi CH701 Nightblade EP
Pokes-With-Fire CH701 Dragonknight AD
Josie-The-Pussi-Cat CH701 Templar AD
Stug-Grog M'God CH701 Templar DC
One With Many Faces CH701 Nightblade DC
Trixie Truskan CH701 Sorcerer EP
Grumpetasaurus Rex CH701 Warden EP19 -
JanTanhide✭✭✭✭✭
✭It's pretty bad imo. I've been in this game since a few days after going Live. The good ole days we could have real discussions and chats here in the Forum as well as in game. Now I rarely say anything due to the 1984 approach from big brother. It's not just this game though. I was in Twitch a few days ago and asked the Streamer what his CP level was.
Guess what happened? BOOM. Instant deletion of my question by a moderator. Like...wth? So in a discussion with the Streamer I posted in his stream chat why my post was instantly deleted by a moderator? Finally, know what the reason was?
Because in the moderator's eyes my asking him about his CP was asking him about Child....you know what. I was like this is utterly insane. How does a mind think like that? ESPECIALLY a Moderator!!?? Really? Who's brain is wired wrong? Mine or the Moderator's? Wow!
That is how bad censorship/moderation is in many games/streams etc. It's insane.13
This discussion has been closed.