Moderation and censorship is out of hand

SilverBride

SaffronCitrusflower wrote: »

ZOS_Kevin wrote: »

Hey there, wanted to follow up here. Please make sure to use the report function of the forum when you see potential violations. It is a lot easier to track when reports are put through. We see a lot of what happens on the forums, but between upticks in notifications, other conversations, etc. sometimes we can miss a tag in a post. Reporting issues using the forum reporting function is helpful for us to address things faster.

Of course we started by reporting the post and the offense to the forum moderators using the flag function. I've put in two reports of the original violator myself, the first one about 7 days ago. The second a couple days ago. I know of at least one other poster that also used the flag function to no avail.

[snip]

Believe me, we absolutely did try the normal channels before taking the issue public and started tagging ZOS reps other than the moderators. No action was taken despite being fully informed of the infraction until today. So thank you for finally addressing this issue and getting it resolved. This is something the forum moderators absolutely should have resolved over a week ago without the need for us to bring it to the attention of ZOS reps publicly via tagging.

This just highlights how inconsistent and unresponsive the forum moderators are, which is the subject of this thread in the first place. This forums moderation needs an overhaul in a major way. This issue is just one of many examples showing why.

[Edit for Discussing Disciplinary Action]

I have had similar experiences where posts that were offensive toward me were flagged but nothing was ever done about it. I wasn't expecting to get anyone banned, because I think there is way too much of that now. I only wanted the offensive remarks snipped. So I waited a few days and flagged the post again but nothing happened. So I messaged a mod describing my issue and asked if they were able to help. I will never do that again.

Sometimes flagged posts are just never dealt with.

Aurielle

SilverBride wrote: »

SaffronCitrusflower wrote: »

ZOS_Kevin wrote: »

Hey there, wanted to follow up here. Please make sure to use the report function of the forum when you see potential violations. It is a lot easier to track when reports are put through. We see a lot of what happens on the forums, but between upticks in notifications, other conversations, etc. sometimes we can miss a tag in a post. Reporting issues using the forum reporting function is helpful for us to address things faster.

Of course we started by reporting the post and the offense to the forum moderators using the flag function. I've put in two reports of the original violator myself, the first one about 7 days ago. The second a couple days ago. I know of at least one other poster that also used the flag function to no avail.

[snip]

Believe me, we absolutely did try the normal channels before taking the issue public and started tagging ZOS reps other than the moderators. No action was taken despite being fully informed of the infraction until today. So thank you for finally addressing this issue and getting it resolved. This is something the forum moderators absolutely should have resolved over a week ago without the need for us to bring it to the attention of ZOS reps publicly via tagging.

This just highlights how inconsistent and unresponsive the forum moderators are, which is the subject of this thread in the first place. This forums moderation needs an overhaul in a major way. This issue is just one of many examples showing why.

[Edit for Discussing Disciplinary Action]

Sometimes flagged posts are just never dealt with.

Well, sometimes posts flagged by users might not actually violate any forum rules... Flagging a post or profile doesn’t necessarily mean action will be taken.

That signature was quite obviously out of line, though; glad it was finally acted upon, but I agree, it probably should have been resolved sooner.

sans-culottes

SilverBride wrote: »

SaffronCitrusflower wrote: »

ZOS_Kevin wrote: »

Hey there, wanted to follow up here. Please make sure to use the report function of the forum when you see potential violations. It is a lot easier to track when reports are put through. We see a lot of what happens on the forums, but between upticks in notifications, other conversations, etc. sometimes we can miss a tag in a post. Reporting issues using the forum reporting function is helpful for us to address things faster.

Of course we started by reporting the post and the offense to the forum moderators using the flag function. I've put in two reports of the original violator myself, the first one about 7 days ago. The second a couple days ago. I know of at least one other poster that also used the flag function to no avail.

[snip]

Believe me, we absolutely did try the normal channels before taking the issue public and started tagging ZOS reps other than the moderators. No action was taken despite being fully informed of the infraction until today. So thank you for finally addressing this issue and getting it resolved. This is something the forum moderators absolutely should have resolved over a week ago without the need for us to bring it to the attention of ZOS reps publicly via tagging.

This just highlights how inconsistent and unresponsive the forum moderators are, which is the subject of this thread in the first place. This forums moderation needs an overhaul in a major way. This issue is just one of many examples showing why.

[Edit for Discussing Disciplinary Action]

I have had similar experiences where posts that were offensive toward me were flagged but nothing was ever done about it. I wasn't expecting to get anyone banned, because I think there is way too much of that now. I only wanted the offensive remarks snipped. So I waited a few days and flagged the post again but nothing happened. So I messaged a mod describing my issue and asked if they were able to help. I will never do that again.

Sometimes flagged posts are just never dealt with.

This is useful information. I appreciate your detailed explanation, SilverBride.

SilverBride

Aurielle wrote: »

SilverBride wrote: »

Sometimes flagged posts are just never dealt with.

Well, sometimes posts flagged by users might not actually violate any forum rules... Flagging a post or profile doesn’t necessarily mean action will be taken.

I understand that, but the particular post I mentioned absolutely violated the rule for bashing because it was making accusations directed at me personally and criticizing how I post... not even mentioning the topic that was being discussed.

If the mod really didn't see this as a violation they could have explained that to me when I asked for help. But that's not what happened.

Arunei

That's another thing that sounds like it needs to be handled then, that mods won't respond when reached out to with just basic or general questions about something. Sure, some of them might, but it seems from posts here that most will ignore you regardless of the reason you're contacting them.

Overmoderation
LACK of moderation when necessary
Not responding to inquiries about moderation
Not responding to questions in general

There are a number of things it seems the moderation team needs coaching on. There are probably others I'm not thinking of because I'm very tired and more brain dead than normal atm.

SaffronCitrusflower

SaffronCitrusflower wrote: »

ZOS_Kevin wrote: »

AngryPenguin wrote: »

CrazyKitty wrote: »

AngryPenguin wrote: »

JustLovely wrote: »

I see far, far too frequent favoritism and inconsistent enforcement of the rules.

For instance, the Code of conduct says:

"• Inappropriate Content and Language: Certain topics and subjects are deemed inappropriate and not permitted on the official ESO forums. Things that we consider inappropriate are usually illegal, extremely volatile or violent, obscene, vulgar, or simply inappropriate for an official game forum such as ours. Inappropriate content on the ESO forums includes, but is not limited to the following:
• Extreme violence
• Illegal substances and activities
• Pirated copyright-protected material
• Pornography and other sexually explicit topics
• Real-world religion and politics
• Tasteless, vulgar, or obscene material”

Yet there is a regular poster that is allowed to have a signature that reads:

“The Lord Jesus Christ saved me from sin and darkness. His love has transformed me so that I am a new creature in Him. May you find Him too, and experience His richness and goodness!”

If this isn't using the ESO forums to promote real world religion I don't know what is. What if we replace “Jesus Christ” with Allah, or Satan or whatever god that others would certainly find offensive?

The moderation is just too selective and favors certain views over others, regardless of what the letter of the law says in terms of conduct.

@ZOS_Kevin

This is a very good point. This signature is a direct violation of the Code of Conduct, yet no action has been taken in how many days now after bringing it to the attention of the moderators? Why has no action been taken to deal with this blatant violation of the Code of conduct?

@ZOS_Kevin
@ZOS_Hadeostry
@ZOS_Icy

Rules are not rules if they aren't enforced equally for everyone. Do we really want to open the door for every person on this forum to promote their religion? Because not taking action on this is opening that door.

I just noticed this signature in the Nvidia elk mount thread myself and it really stood out to me as well. The poster was being helpful, but their signature is a crazy blatant violation of the sticky posted code of conduct.

As you say, if the rules aren't enforced equally for everyone, there are no rules. The code of conduct sticky post can be greatly redacted to be reflective of how the forum is actually being moderated. Just change the forum code of conduct to read:

"The rules are whatever we decide they are at any given time and are subject to change at any time for any reason and will be applied differently for different posters".

This is a real problem folks. Forum moderation has to apply equally to everyone at all times and in all cases.

@ZOS_Kevin
@ZOS_Hadeostry
@ZOS_Icy

@ZOS_GinaBruno
@ZOS_RichLambert
@ZOS_MattFiror
@ZOS_JessicaFolsom

Can I change my signature to read "There is only one true god and Mohamed is his prophet"? (serious question, can I?) If one poster is allowed to promote religion, then all posters are allowed to promote their religion as well. Right?

It's been about week now since this issue was pointed out. Why has no action been taken against the poster blatantly violating the code of conduct and using the forum as a platform to promote religion? We know for certain the moderators are aware of this issue and are choosing not to take any action, which makes it clear to the community there really isn't a code of conduct at all outside of we can post anything as long as it's ok with the moderators regardless of what the code of conduct says.

Is there a code of conduct on this forum or not?

“The Lord Jesus Christ saved me from sin and darkness. His love has transformed me so that I am a new creature in Him. May you find Him too, and experience His richness and goodness!” isn't just discussing religion, it's preaching it.

What is going on here when this is allowed and is so blatantly inflammatory to anyone belonging to any religion other than Christianity?

@ZOS_Kevin
@ZOS_Hadeostry
@ZOS_Icy
@ZOS_GinaBruno
@ZOS_MattFiror
@ZOS_JessicaFolsom
@ZOS_Phoenix

With moderation this inconsistent and biased it's undeniable that the moderation system in place needs a massive overhaul.

Hey there, wanted to follow up here. Please make sure to use the report function of the forum when you see potential violations. It is a lot easier to track when reports are put through. We see a lot of what happens on the forums, but between upticks in notifications, other conversations, etc. sometimes we can miss a tag in a post. Reporting issues using the forum reporting function is helpful for us to address things faster.

Of course we started by reporting the post and the offense to the forum moderators using the flag function. I've put in two reports of the original violator myself, the first one about 7 days ago. The second a couple days ago. I know of at least one other poster that also used the flag function to no avail.

I even DM'd Icy directly and pointed it out. And I posted in a thread right after the original offender posted asking them directly to change their signature. No action was taken in response to my messaging either the offender or the moderator.

Believe me, we absolutely did try the normal channels before taking the issue public and started tagging ZOS reps other than the moderators. No action was taken despite being fully informed of the infraction until today. So thank you for finally addressing this issue and getting it resolved. This is something the forum moderators absolutely should have resolved over a week ago without the need for us to bring it to the attention of ZOS reps publicly via tagging.

This just highlights how inconsistent and unresponsive the forum moderators are, which is the subject of this thread in the first place. This forums moderation needs an overhaul in a major way. This issue is just one of many examples showing why.

Thank you @ZOS_Kevin

Come to think of it, why do we even need signatures?

[Edit for Discussing Disciplinary Action]

This entire thread is about disciplinary actions and how arbitrary and biased those actions tend to be. That's the problem. That's why this thread exists. The mods can not claim they were not aware of this situation for at least a week and probably longer. No action was taken to resolve the situation until outside ZOS representatives came onto the forum to fix it. This is just another example as to why the moderation on this forum needs to be revamped so desperately.

Franchise408

Arunei wrote: »

That's another thing that sounds like it needs to be handled then, that mods won't respond when reached out to with just basic or general questions about something. Sure, some of them might, but it seems from posts here that most will ignore you regardless of the reason you're contacting them.

Overmoderation
LACK of moderation when necessary
Not responding to inquiries about moderation
Not responding to questions in general

There are a number of things it seems the moderation team needs coaching on. There are probably others I'm not thinking of because I'm very tired and more brain dead than normal atm.

I can confirm that mods do not respond to players when reached out to. I have sent numerous messages to mods in the past, either through flagging others for their posts, or for clarifications of my own infractions, and not once have I ever received a response. When attempting to appeal moderation against me that I felt was improper, the response always amounted to "we've investigated ourselves and found ourselves to have done nothing wrong, bye".

I've long felt that the moderation on these forums is bad enough that it has contributed to me closing my ESO+ subscriptions and limiting my purchased DLC, because when on these forums, I don't feel like I am treated like a valued customer, but rather like a child that ZOS is babysitting.

Amottica

SilverBride wrote: »

SaffronCitrusflower wrote: »

ZOS_Kevin wrote: »

Hey there, wanted to follow up here. Please make sure to use the report function of the forum when you see potential violations. It is a lot easier to track when reports are put through. We see a lot of what happens on the forums, but between upticks in notifications, other conversations, etc. sometimes we can miss a tag in a post. Reporting issues using the forum reporting function is helpful for us to address things faster.

Of course we started by reporting the post and the offense to the forum moderators using the flag function. I've put in two reports of the original violator myself, the first one about 7 days ago. The second a couple days ago. I know of at least one other poster that also used the flag function to no avail.

[snip]

Believe me, we absolutely did try the normal channels before taking the issue public and started tagging ZOS reps other than the moderators. No action was taken despite being fully informed of the infraction until today. So thank you for finally addressing this issue and getting it resolved. This is something the forum moderators absolutely should have resolved over a week ago without the need for us to bring it to the attention of ZOS reps publicly via tagging.

This just highlights how inconsistent and unresponsive the forum moderators are, which is the subject of this thread in the first place. This forums moderation needs an overhaul in a major way. This issue is just one of many examples showing why.

[Edit for Discussing Disciplinary Action]

I have had similar experiences where posts that were offensive toward me were flagged but nothing was ever done about it. I wasn't expecting to get anyone banned, because I think there is way too much of that now. I only wanted the offensive remarks snipped. So I waited a few days and flagged the post again but nothing happened. So I messaged a mod describing my issue and asked if they were able to help. I will never do that again.

Sometimes flagged posts are just never dealt with.

I have had to flag a blatant violation multiple times, with the second flag spelling out the issue of what leaving it stand demonstrates. It tends to get taken care of after such a statement is added. I only report things that are really pushing things to far.

I do understand they have to go through a lot of flagged posts and sometimes may overlook something as a result. Though it was fair to add this comment since I appreciate their efforts.

AtriaKhorist

ZOS_Kevin wrote: »

AngryPenguin wrote: »

CrazyKitty wrote: »

AngryPenguin wrote: »

JustLovely wrote: »

I see far, far too frequent favoritism and inconsistent enforcement of the rules.

For instance, the Code of conduct says:

"• Inappropriate Content and Language: Certain topics and subjects are deemed inappropriate and not permitted on the official ESO forums. Things that we consider inappropriate are usually illegal, extremely volatile or violent, obscene, vulgar, or simply inappropriate for an official game forum such as ours. Inappropriate content on the ESO forums includes, but is not limited to the following:
• Extreme violence
• Illegal substances and activities
• Pirated copyright-protected material
• Pornography and other sexually explicit topics
• Real-world religion and politics
• Tasteless, vulgar, or obscene material”

Yet there is a regular poster that is allowed to have a signature that reads:

“The Lord Jesus Christ saved me from sin and darkness. His love has transformed me so that I am a new creature in Him. May you find Him too, and experience His richness and goodness!”

If this isn't using the ESO forums to promote real world religion I don't know what is. What if we replace “Jesus Christ” with Allah, or Satan or whatever god that others would certainly find offensive?

The moderation is just too selective and favors certain views over others, regardless of what the letter of the law says in terms of conduct.

@ZOS_Kevin

This is a very good point. This signature is a direct violation of the Code of Conduct, yet no action has been taken in how many days now after bringing it to the attention of the moderators? Why has no action been taken to deal with this blatant violation of the Code of conduct?

@ZOS_Kevin
@ZOS_Hadeostry
@ZOS_Icy

Rules are not rules if they aren't enforced equally for everyone. Do we really want to open the door for every person on this forum to promote their religion? Because not taking action on this is opening that door.

I just noticed this signature in the Nvidia elk mount thread myself and it really stood out to me as well. The poster was being helpful, but their signature is a crazy blatant violation of the sticky posted code of conduct.

As you say, if the rules aren't enforced equally for everyone, there are no rules. The code of conduct sticky post can be greatly redacted to be reflective of how the forum is actually being moderated. Just change the forum code of conduct to read:

"The rules are whatever we decide they are at any given time and are subject to change at any time for any reason and will be applied differently for different posters".

This is a real problem folks. Forum moderation has to apply equally to everyone at all times and in all cases.

@ZOS_Kevin
@ZOS_Hadeostry
@ZOS_Icy

@ZOS_GinaBruno
@ZOS_RichLambert
@ZOS_MattFiror
@ZOS_JessicaFolsom

Can I change my signature to read "There is only one true god and Mohamed is his prophet"? (serious question, can I?) If one poster is allowed to promote religion, then all posters are allowed to promote their religion as well. Right?

It's been about week now since this issue was pointed out. Why has no action been taken against the poster blatantly violating the code of conduct and using the forum as a platform to promote religion? We know for certain the moderators are aware of this issue and are choosing not to take any action, which makes it clear to the community there really isn't a code of conduct at all outside of we can post anything as long as it's ok with the moderators regardless of what the code of conduct says.

Is there a code of conduct on this forum or not?

“The Lord Jesus Christ saved me from sin and darkness. His love has transformed me so that I am a new creature in Him. May you find Him too, and experience His richness and goodness!” isn't just discussing religion, it's preaching it.

What is going on here when this is allowed and is so blatantly inflammatory to anyone belonging to any religion other than Christianity?

@ZOS_Kevin
@ZOS_Hadeostry
@ZOS_Icy
@ZOS_GinaBruno
@ZOS_MattFiror
@ZOS_JessicaFolsom
@ZOS_Phoenix

With moderation this inconsistent and biased it's undeniable that the moderation system in place needs a massive overhaul.

Hey there, wanted to follow up here. Please make sure to use the report function of the forum when you see potential violations. It is a lot easier to track when reports are put through. We see a lot of what happens on the forums, but between upticks in notifications, other conversations, etc. sometimes we can miss a tag in a post. Reporting issues using the forum reporting function is helpful for us to address things faster.

@ZOS_Kevin
Kevin. Please, please stop dropping this 'Just use the report function'. If the report function worked to get us where we wanted we wouldn't have this thread and every thread before this one. The same goes for every time I see directions to ask mods for clarifications. It next to never garners responses. I certainly still don't have one for what has been moderated earlier in this thread.

Giving us standard responses in a thread where we discuss that forum moderation is inconsistent, not working and often outright arbitrary and hostile doesn't only not help but actively makes the subjective perception worse.

ZOS_Volpe

Hello all,

As this thread has derailed with baiting and insulting commentary, we've decided to close it down. While we completely understand everyone has their own opinions, thoughts, feelings and even frustrations, we want the forums to be a civil and constructive platform for the game and its community as a whole.

Thank you for your understanding.