Needed changes for Vampire skill line and Vampire sets

StarOfElyon · December 2024

I want to add to the list of sets that I feel are connected to Vampires (or maybe specifically characters who are Vampire hunters). I know that I'm increasing the power of the sets but I am against vertical progression. I'm far more interested in having OPTIONS in sets, not a linear progression of power in sets, ranging from easy to obtain (less powerful) to harder to obtain (more powerful). Sets that have to be worn full-time to get their effects should be stronger than sets that can be back-barred or front-barred. I'm interested in seeing people's thoughts though.

Meridia's Blessed Armor:
(2 items) Adds 1487 Armor
(3 items) Adds 129 Stamina Recovery
(4 items) Adds 1487 Armor
(5 items) Gain Minor Protection at all times. When you Block, you gain Meridia's Blessed Armor for 5 seconds, causing you to dodge all incoming attacks. This effect can occur once every 25 seconds.

Considering the changes I'm proposing for Vampire's Cloak, I think adding the Minor Protection to Meridia's Blessed Armor makes it a suitable replacement. Minor Protection is easy to source but I think it fits the theme of this set being protective.

Stendarr's Embrace:
(2 items) Adds 129 Magicka Recovery
(3 items) Adds 1096 Maximum Magicka
(4 items) Adds 1096 Maximum Magicka
(5 items) You take 10% less damage from undead enemies, Vampires, and Werewolves. When you heal yourself or an ally, you remove all negative effects from them. This effect can occur once every 30 seconds per target.

Turtle_Bot · December 2024

Part of the issue surrounding a set that removes all vamp penalties is that we need to look at what those penalties are and what the bonuses are:

Lets look at stage 3 Vamp (most common stage being ran due to undeath passive):

"Costs" of being vamp stage 3.
-60% health recovery (this is very punishing for long drawn out fights)
+13% flame damage taken
+8% regular ability cost (this is the only reason that post undeath nerf vampire is a choice and not mandatory, this sustain hit is big)

Bonuses for being stage 3 (from all passives)
-16% vamp ability cost
Ignore movement penalty of sneak (this is another big reason many still run vampire even at just stage 1)
50% reduced crouch fade time
+300 weapon/spell damage when leaving stealth/invis/mistform
up to +15% mitigation

A set that removes the penalties would be the equivalent of a set that gave the following stats:
13% mitigation against flame damage (one of the more common damage types)
8% cost reduction
150% increased health recovery (150% increase on the reduced value is equal to 60% reduction of the non-reduced value due to how percentage changes work)

Each one of those bonuses would be enough for its own 5 piece bonus on an overland set (8% cost reduction already is its own 5th piece bonus on the overland seducer set and that's limited to magicka abilities only, not everything).

Taking it to stage 4 it becomes even more OP.
indeterminant bonus to health recovery (there's no percent value that equals a 100% reduction of something)
20% mitigation against flame damage
12% cost reduction
and being stage 4 also unlocks unnatural movement passive for invisibility while sprinting.

This being a permanent bonus is why such a set would be broken. That is an insane amount of sustain and mitigation from just 1 set.

Now if the set was something like:
Vampire Cloak:
(2 items) Adds 1206 Maximum Health
(3 items) Adds 1206 Maximum Health
(4 items) Adds 129 Weapon and Spell Damage
(5 items) Adds 171 Weapon and Spell Damage. Reduces the penalties of your Vampirism stage by 1 stage. When you cast Blood Scion, the penalties are disabled entirely for X duration.

This would still be very strong, but more balanced. It provides a permanent bonus all the time (reduction in penalties by 1 stage is still strong), then it ties in with the ultimate, where for a period of time on cast the penalties are completely negated, but this massive buff comes with an associated cost and enforced cooldown (using one of the most expensive ultimates in the game).

This would obviously come paired with a rework to the perfect scion morph, since this set is now doing most of what that morph currently does.

StarOfElyon · December 2024

Turtle_Bot wrote: »

Part of the issue surrounding a set that removes all vamp penalties is that we need to look at what those penalties are and what the bonuses are:

Lets look at stage 3 Vamp (most common stage being ran due to undeath passive):
"Costs" of being vamp stage 3.
-60% health recovery (this is very punishing for long drawn out fights)
+13% flame damage taken
+8% regular ability cost (this is the only reason that post undeath nerf vampire is a choice and not mandatory, this sustain hit is big)

Bonuses for being stage 3 (from all passives)
-16% vamp ability cost
Ignore movement penalty of sneak (this is another big reason many still run vampire even at just stage 1)
50% reduced crouch fade time
+300 weapon/spell damage when leaving stealth/invis/mistform
up to +15% mitigation

A set that removes the penalties would be the equivalent of a set that gave the following stats:
13% mitigation against flame damage (one of the more common damage types)
8% cost reduction
150% increased health recovery (150% increase on the reduced value is equal to 60% reduction of the non-reduced value due to how percentage changes work)

Each one of those bonuses would be enough for its own 5 piece bonus on an overland set (8% cost reduction already is its own 5th piece bonus on the overland seducer set and that's limited to magicka abilities only, not everything).

Taking it to stage 4 it becomes even more OP.
indeterminant bonus to health recovery (there's no percent value that equals a 100% reduction of something)
20% mitigation against flame damage
12% cost reduction
and being stage 4 also unlocks unnatural movement passive for invisibility while sprinting.

This being a permanent bonus is why such a set would be broken. That is an insane amount of sustain and mitigation from just 1 set.

Now if the set was something like:
Vampire Cloak:
(2 items) Adds 1206 Maximum Health
(3 items) Adds 1206 Maximum Health
(4 items) Adds 129 Weapon and Spell Damage
(5 items) Adds 171 Weapon and Spell Damage. Reduces the penalties of your Vampirism stage by 1 stage. When you cast Blood Scion, the penalties are disabled entirely for X duration.

This would still be very strong, but more balanced. It provides a permanent bonus all the time (reduction in penalties by 1 stage is still strong), then it ties in with the ultimate, where for a period of time on cast the penalties are completely negated, but this massive buff comes with an associated cost and enforced cooldown (using one of the most expensive ultimates in the game).

This would obviously come paired with a rework to the perfect scion morph, since this set is now doing most of what that morph currently does.

It might require the Perfect Scion to be reworked but to my knowledge most players don't pick that morph. I think the set would still be niche and anyone who plays with the Perfect Scion morph already wouldn't bother to use the set.

KaironBlackbard · December 2024

StarOfElyon wrote: »

I want to add to the list of sets that I feel are connected to Vampires (or maybe specifically characters who are Vampire hunters). I know that I'm increasing the power of the sets but I am against vertical progression. I'm far more interested in having OPTIONS in sets, not a linear progression of power in sets, ranging from easy to obtain (less powerful) to harder to obtain (more powerful). Sets that have to be worn full-time to get their effects should be stronger than sets that can be back-barred or front-barred. I'm interested in seeing people's thoughts though.

Meridia's Blessed Armor:
(2 items) Adds 1487 Armor
(3 items) Adds 129 Stamina Recovery
(4 items) Adds 1487 Armor
(5 items) Gain Minor Protection at all times. When you Block, you gain Meridia's Blessed Armor for 5 seconds, causing you to dodge all incoming attacks. This effect can occur once every 25 seconds.
Considering the changes I'm proposing for Vampire's Cloak, I think adding the Minor Protection to Meridia's Blessed Armor makes it a suitable replacement. Minor Protection is easy to source but I think it fits the theme of this set being protective.

Stendarr's Embrace:
(2 items) Adds 129 Magicka Recovery
(3 items) Adds 1096 Maximum Magicka
(4 items) Adds 1096 Maximum Magicka
(5 items) You take 10% less damage from undead enemies, Vampires, and Werewolves. When you heal yourself or an ally, you remove all negative effects from them. This effect can occur once every 30 seconds per target.

I love it. This would be a perfect replacement for Vampire Cloak if it gets changed.

KaironBlackbard · December 2024

Turtle_Bot wrote: »

Part of the issue surrounding a set that removes all vamp penalties is that we need to look at what those penalties are and what the bonuses are:

Lets look at stage 3 Vamp (most common stage being ran due to undeath passive):
"Costs" of being vamp stage 3.
-60% health recovery (this is very punishing for long drawn out fights)
+13% flame damage taken
+8% regular ability cost (this is the only reason that post undeath nerf vampire is a choice and not mandatory, this sustain hit is big)

Bonuses for being stage 3 (from all passives)
-16% vamp ability cost
Ignore movement penalty of sneak (this is another big reason many still run vampire even at just stage 1)
50% reduced crouch fade time
+300 weapon/spell damage when leaving stealth/invis/mistform
up to +15% mitigation

A set that removes the penalties would be the equivalent of a set that gave the following stats:
13% mitigation against flame damage (one of the more common damage types)
8% cost reduction
150% increased health recovery (150% increase on the reduced value is equal to 60% reduction of the non-reduced value due to how percentage changes work)

Each one of those bonuses would be enough for its own 5 piece bonus on an overland set (8% cost reduction already is its own 5th piece bonus on the overland seducer set and that's limited to magicka abilities only, not everything).

Taking it to stage 4 it becomes even more OP.
indeterminant bonus to health recovery (there's no percent value that equals a 100% reduction of something)
20% mitigation against flame damage
12% cost reduction
and being stage 4 also unlocks unnatural movement passive for invisibility while sprinting.

This being a permanent bonus is why such a set would be broken. That is an insane amount of sustain and mitigation from just 1 set.

Now if the set was something like:
Vampire Cloak:
(2 items) Adds 1206 Maximum Health
(3 items) Adds 1206 Maximum Health
(4 items) Adds 129 Weapon and Spell Damage
(5 items) Adds 171 Weapon and Spell Damage. Reduces the penalties of your Vampirism stage by 1 stage. When you cast Blood Scion, the penalties are disabled entirely for X duration.

This would still be very strong, but more balanced. It provides a permanent bonus all the time (reduction in penalties by 1 stage is still strong), then it ties in with the ultimate, where for a period of time on cast the penalties are completely negated, but this massive buff comes with an associated cost and enforced cooldown (using one of the most expensive ultimates in the game).

This would obviously come paired with a rework to the perfect scion morph, since this set is now doing most of what that morph currently does.

Blood Scion: gain AoE in Scion Form.
Perfect Scion: Ignore the penalties of vampirism and enjoy all the benefits of stage 4. Doesn't leave you ate stage 4 but at whatever stage you were before you cast, because it doesn't change/affect your stage or its timer.

Adding a set that applies perfected to blood scion negates any reason to use perfected.

I agree with the 1 stage reduced penalties thing though. As long as another set takes the Minor Protection if this set no longer keeps it.

Do you have a rework in mind for Perfected?

StarOfElyon · January 5

Thoughts on this idea?:

Vampire's Kiss
(2 items) Adds 1096 Maximum Stamina
(3 items) Adds 1096 Maximum Magicka
(4 items) Adds 1096 Maximum Stamina, Adds 1096 Maximum Magicka
(5 items) You heal for 10% of the damage that your vampire skills deal. When you activate a vampire skill, you surround yourself with bats for 10 seconds. The bats deal 566 damage every two seconds to surrounding enemies within 5 meters. This effect can occur once every 15 seconds and scales off the higher of your Max Magicka or Stamina.

KaironBlackbard · January 7

StarOfElyon wrote: »

Thoughts on this idea?:

Vampire's Kiss
(2 items) Adds 1096 Maximum Stamina
(3 items) Adds 1096 Maximum Magicka
(4 items) Adds 1096 Maximum Stamina, Adds 1096 Maximum Magicka
(5 items) You heal for 10% of the damage that your vampire skills deal. When you activate a vampire skill, you surround yourself with bats for 10 seconds. The bats deal 566 damage every two seconds to surrounding enemies within 5 meters. This effect can occur once every 15 seconds and scales off the higher of your Max Magicka or Stamina.

what of its current effect?
(2 items) Adds 1096 Maximum Stamina
(3 items) Adds 1096 Maximum Magicka
(4 items) Adds 1096 Maximum Stamina, Adds 1096 Maximum Magicka
(5 items) Adds 129 Weapon and Spell Damage, When you kill an enemy, you heal for 10512 Health over 10 seconds. This effect scales off the higher of your Max Magicka or Stamina.

StarOfElyon · January 7

KaironBlackbard wrote: »

StarOfElyon wrote: »

Thoughts on this idea?:

Vampire's Kiss
(2 items) Adds 1096 Maximum Stamina
(3 items) Adds 1096 Maximum Magicka
(4 items) Adds 1096 Maximum Stamina, Adds 1096 Maximum Magicka
(5 items) You heal for 10% of the damage that your vampire skills deal. When you activate a vampire skill, you surround yourself with bats for 10 seconds. The bats deal 566 damage every two seconds to surrounding enemies within 5 meters. This effect can occur once every 15 seconds and scales off the higher of your Max Magicka or Stamina.

what of its current effect?
(2 items) Adds 1096 Maximum Stamina
(3 items) Adds 1096 Maximum Magicka
(4 items) Adds 1096 Maximum Stamina, Adds 1096 Maximum Magicka
(5 items) Adds 129 Weapon and Spell Damage, When you kill an enemy, you heal for 10512 Health over 10 seconds. This effect scales off the higher of your Max Magicka or Stamina.

I think the healing provided in combat by the change would outweigh healing received after killing an enemy.

KaironBlackbard · January 8

StarOfElyon wrote: »

KaironBlackbard wrote: »

StarOfElyon wrote: »

Thoughts on this idea?:

Vampire's Kiss
(2 items) Adds 1096 Maximum Stamina
(3 items) Adds 1096 Maximum Magicka
(4 items) Adds 1096 Maximum Stamina, Adds 1096 Maximum Magicka
(5 items) You heal for 10% of the damage that your vampire skills deal. When you activate a vampire skill, you surround yourself with bats for 10 seconds. The bats deal 566 damage every two seconds to surrounding enemies within 5 meters. This effect can occur once every 15 seconds and scales off the higher of your Max Magicka or Stamina.

what of its current effect?
(2 items) Adds 1096 Maximum Stamina
(3 items) Adds 1096 Maximum Magicka
(4 items) Adds 1096 Maximum Stamina, Adds 1096 Maximum Magicka
(5 items) Adds 129 Weapon and Spell Damage, When you kill an enemy, you heal for 10512 Health over 10 seconds. This effect scales off the higher of your Max Magicka or Stamina.

I think the healing provided in combat by the change would outweigh healing received after killing an enemy.

As a non vampire who relies on that set? Yeah, the vampire only healing will be sooo helpful...
Most builds that use this aren't even vampires.
Don't disregard them.

StarOfElyon · January 8

KaironBlackbard wrote: »

StarOfElyon wrote: »

KaironBlackbard wrote: »

StarOfElyon wrote: »

Thoughts on this idea?:

Vampire's Kiss
(2 items) Adds 1096 Maximum Stamina
(3 items) Adds 1096 Maximum Magicka
(4 items) Adds 1096 Maximum Stamina, Adds 1096 Maximum Magicka
(5 items) You heal for 10% of the damage that your vampire skills deal. When you activate a vampire skill, you surround yourself with bats for 10 seconds. The bats deal 566 damage every two seconds to surrounding enemies within 5 meters. This effect can occur once every 15 seconds and scales off the higher of your Max Magicka or Stamina.

what of its current effect?
(2 items) Adds 1096 Maximum Stamina
(3 items) Adds 1096 Maximum Magicka
(4 items) Adds 1096 Maximum Stamina, Adds 1096 Maximum Magicka
(5 items) Adds 129 Weapon and Spell Damage, When you kill an enemy, you heal for 10512 Health over 10 seconds. This effect scales off the higher of your Max Magicka or Stamina.

I think the healing provided in combat by the change would outweigh healing received after killing an enemy.

As a non vampire who relies on that set? Yeah, the vampire only healing will be sooo helpful...
Most builds that use this aren't even vampires.
Don't disregard them.

I'd love to get a statistic on how much use this set gets.

randconfig · January 9

Mezmorize is horrible/weak compared to every other class stun in the game. It should be stronger than other class stuns, since it also requires your opponent to be looking at you to affect them.

Eviscerate/Blood for Blood is perfect the way it is.

Mist Form is perfect except I don't like Blood Mist Morph, it just doesn't feel impactful and it looks jank.

And idk what to do to Vampiric Drain... It just feels bad to use, especially in PvP. Maybe it's okay on a pure Tank build, but I don't know any vampire tanks haha. Honestly, I think it would be really fun and not overpowered if they made it a 1 second cast time where you then form a tether to your target as long as you remain within 22m, and while tethered, they are slowed by 30% movement speed, they take standard DoT damage every two seconds and you heal for 10% of your missing health every two seconds.

StarOfElyon wrote: »

Thoughts on this idea?:

Vampire's Kiss
(2 items) Adds 1096 Maximum Stamina
(3 items) Adds 1096 Maximum Magicka
(4 items) Adds 1096 Maximum Stamina, Adds 1096 Maximum Magicka
(5 items) You heal for 10% of the damage that your vampire skills deal. When you activate a vampire skill, you surround yourself with bats for 10 seconds. The bats deal 566 damage every two seconds to surrounding enemies within 5 meters. This effect can occur once every 15 seconds and scales off the higher of your Max Magicka or Stamina.

For the 5pc I think it would be better if every 20 seconds your next damaging vampire skill also charms your target for 1/1/2/3 seconds based on the stage, and the healing done should also be based on vampire stage, so like 4/6/10/15% should be based on stages though.

As for the 2-4pc I would prefer 2pc be weapon/spell damage, 3pc max health, and the 4pc being adds stamina and adds magicka.

KaironBlackbard · January 9

StarOfElyon wrote: »

KaironBlackbard wrote: »

StarOfElyon wrote: »

KaironBlackbard wrote: »

StarOfElyon wrote: »

Thoughts on this idea?:

Vampire's Kiss
(2 items) Adds 1096 Maximum Stamina
(3 items) Adds 1096 Maximum Magicka
(4 items) Adds 1096 Maximum Stamina, Adds 1096 Maximum Magicka
(5 items) You heal for 10% of the damage that your vampire skills deal. When you activate a vampire skill, you surround yourself with bats for 10 seconds. The bats deal 566 damage every two seconds to surrounding enemies within 5 meters. This effect can occur once every 15 seconds and scales off the higher of your Max Magicka or Stamina.

what of its current effect?
(2 items) Adds 1096 Maximum Stamina
(3 items) Adds 1096 Maximum Magicka
(4 items) Adds 1096 Maximum Stamina, Adds 1096 Maximum Magicka
(5 items) Adds 129 Weapon and Spell Damage, When you kill an enemy, you heal for 10512 Health over 10 seconds. This effect scales off the higher of your Max Magicka or Stamina.

I think the healing provided in combat by the change would outweigh healing received after killing an enemy.

As a non vampire who relies on that set? Yeah, the vampire only healing will be sooo helpful...
Most builds that use this aren't even vampires.
Don't disregard them.

I'd love to get a statistic on how much use this set gets.

My brother followed a popular build for his nightblade, whom he also has werewolf in the background on, and he makes really high damage and relies on its healing. Dual wield and bow. Stamblade.

Ananda.eso · January 9

I was just thinking that vampire skulls needs an overhaul. Not necessarily the stuff the poster suggested, but a complete overhaul.
I’d like to see thee skulls be not necessarily as good as class skulls, but more useful and less niche (like tanking with low health). A lot of people love playing as a vampire and a lot of those play solo a lot from my experience, though I could be wrong.

But, I’d love to see vampire get an overhaul for sure. And, in doing so, make it really part of the character in some way so that it’s not so builds make a vampire for x skill and they don’t actually care about being a vampire. Some identity of that makes sense. Oh well, an inchoate notion.

KaironBlackbard · January 10

Ananda.eso wrote: »

I was just thinking that vampire skulls needs an overhaul. Not necessarily the stuff the poster suggested, but a complete overhaul.
I’d like to see thee skulls be not necessarily as good as class skulls, but more useful and less niche (like tanking with low health). A lot of people love playing as a vampire and a lot of those play solo a lot from my experience, though I could be wrong.

But, I’d love to see vampire get an overhaul for sure. And, in doing so, make it really part of the character in some way so that it’s not so builds make a vampire for x skill and they don’t actually care about being a vampire. Some identity of that makes sense. Oh well, an inchoate notion.

I think you have some typos in there, and 2) Yes. They did what is current as a mix of Skyrim-izing it whilst trying to maintain skillflow and balance.
I would prefer an experience even closer to Skyrim like.
I made a whole thread about it a while ago. Let me see if I can find it.

randconfig · January 12

The more I play vampire, the more I like the abilities... Some of them need a buff or two, but other than that, it's a fun skill line that can be played many ways depending on your class... I just want them to give me an ability to hide vampirism T_T

KaironBlackbard · January 12

randconfig wrote: »

I just want them to give me an ability to hide vampirism T_T

I use skins. My favorite one on my dark brotherhood argonian is the oil skin from clockwork city. Pairs well with the shrouded armor costume. And hides Vampirism. Also pair with Spiderkith Eyes. It looks awesome.

Silvains_Demon · February 12

I like your ideas. I had this idea some time ago. I really need to continue this "project". It was fun:

https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/666619/vampire-rework-idea-09-29-2024-ver-2-0#latest

StarOfElyon · April 27

Silvains_Demon wrote: »

I like your ideas. I had this idea some time ago. I really need to continue this "project". It was fun:

https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/666619/vampire-rework-idea-09-29-2024-ver-2-0#latest

I'm fine with the vampire ulti as it is. The skills and passives are the bigger issue for me.