Needed changes for Vampire skill line and Vampire sets

StarOfElyon

I can't remember if I made a thread on this before (if I did, I can't find it). These changes are very much needed. The suggested changes are in italics:

Rather than revert the changes to the Undeath passive, I believe it would be better to increase the power of Vampires (while being careful not to passively boost the power of the Nightblade class).

==========
PASSIVES
==========

Strike from the Shadows: When you leave Mist Form or activate Unnatural Movement your Weapon and Spell Damage is increased by 300 for 6 seconds.

=========
SKILLS
=========

Vampiric Drain: Siphon away your enemies' vitality, dealing 870 Magic Damage and healing you for 25% of your missing Health every 1 second for 3 seconds. Activating this ability grants you Major Protection and Major Berserk for 10 seconds.

Mesmerize: Subdue enemies in front of you with your baleful gaze, stunning them for 5 seconds if they are facing your direction. This stun cannot be blocked.
- Hypnosis: Subdue enemies around you with your baleful gaze, stunning them for 5 seconds. This stun cannot be blocked. Enemies are no longer required to be facing your direction.

Mist Form: Disperse into a dark mist, causing the next 3 projectiles to deal no damage to you for 1 second while you dash forward and reappear at your target location after a short duration. Casting again within 4 seconds costs 33% more Magicka. Activating the skill removes snares and immobilizations.

Snare removal would make mist form a fantastic ability, instead of a frustrating one. It's really a no-brainer.

Blood Frenzy:
Allow your monstrous appetites to take hold, increasing your Weapon and Spell Damage by 60 every 2 seconds, up to 5 times. While toggled on, the Health cost of this ability increases by 360 per stack and you cannot be healed by anyone but yourself, your pets, or your Companions. All damage you deal heals you for 1250 Health, up to once every 1 second.


========
SETS
========
Hopefully ZOS revisits all sets in the game and I have a few proposals for the vampire themed sets here:

Vampire Cloak:
(2 items) Adds 1206 Maximum Health
(3 items) Adds 1206 Maximum Health
(4 items) Adds 129 Weapon and Spell Damage
(5 items) Adds 171 Weapon and Spell Damage. Removes the penalties of your Vampire stages.

I believe these changes will make this set worth choosing for vampire themed builds over sets that are stronger in general.

Vampire Lord:
(2 items) Adds 1096 Maximum Magicka
(3 items) Adds 129 Weapon and Spell Damage
(4 items) Adds 657 Critical Chance
(5 items) Increases the bonuses of your Vampire Stage, depending on how far you've progressed. Stage 1/2/3/4: 5%/10%/15%/20% reduced Vampire Ability cost.

Vampirism is already punishing enough already.

I want to add to the list of sets that I feel are connected to Vampires (or maybe specifically characters who are Vampire hunters).

Meridia's Blessed Armor:
(2 items) Adds 1487 Armor
(3 items) Adds 129 Stamina Recovery
(4 items) Adds 1487 Armor
(5 items) Gain Minor Protection at all times. When you Block, you gain Meridia's Blessed Armor for 5 seconds, causing you to dodge all incoming attacks. This effect can occur once every 25 seconds.

Considering the changes I'm proposing for Vampire's Cloak, I think adding the Minor Protection to Meridia's Blessed Armor makes it a suitable replacement. Minor Protection is easy to source but I think it fits the theme of this set being protective.

Stendarr's Embrace:
(2 items) Adds 129 Magicka Recovery
(3 items) Adds 1096 Maximum Magicka
(4 items) Adds 1096 Maximum Magicka
(5 items) You take 10% less damage from undead enemies, Vampires, and Werewolves. When you heal yourself or an ally, you remove all negative effects from them. This effect can occur once every 30 seconds per target.

Rohamad_Ali

Wish they would put mist form back the original way.

StarOfElyon

Rohamad_Ali wrote: »

Wish they would put mist form back the original way.

The new mist form has grown on me. I just wish it would remove snares and immobilzations. It seems so counter-intuitive that it doesn't remove those.

Navaac223

Isn't major berserk and prot a bit too much for vampires ? Look at the skills that give major prot : they are either passive slots (revealing flare), ults, very short (templar charge) or on the necro skill line. If you use the ult morph for example, you'd get 10 sec of major prot, at least 5 ult points AND major berserk.. that's a lot for a single ability.
Besides, vampires are in a good place : not so good that everyone is using it but still worth it for those who want to use things like blood for blood. I don't think there's a need for a buff this huge

Mist form giving snare immunity.. ok, I can't disagree too hard on that one : a mobility skill that doesn't remove snares is just a worse race against time.
Nerfing nb through the vamp passives ? YES SIR ! Any nb or magsorc nerf is a step closer to balance.

Arcturus

+Add a real Vampire Lord form. Don't care how, when or with what, just do it. Remove the goliath reskin from existence.

Thanks.

KaironBlackbard

StarOfElyon wrote: »

Rohamad_Ali wrote: »

Wish they would put mist form back the original way.

The new mist form has grown on me. I just wish it would remove snares and immobilizations. It seems so counter-intuitive that it doesn't remove those.

The current mist form seems more like the Skyrim Bats ability to me.
Rename current mist form to bats, and give us back mist form, specifically mist escape, I wasn't keen on blood mist then, but now I hate mist escape and like blood mist because of the durational area around it.

Current:
Mist Form -> Bats
Mist Escape -> Bats Escape
Blood Mist -> Hungry Bats

New Mist Form: channeled, reduce damage taken by 50% while channeling.
Mist Escape: gain Major Expedition while channeling
Rejuvenating mist: the penalty to health recovery is reduced or inactive while channeling, and gain Minor Fortitude, Intellect, and Endurance while channeling.

StarOfElyon

StarOfElyon wrote: »

I can't remember if I made a thread on this before (if I did, I can't find it). These changes are very much needed. The suggested changes are in italics:

Rather than revert the changes to the Undeath passive, I believe it would be better to increase the power of Vampires (while being careful not to passively boost the power of the Nightblade class).

Strike from the Shadows: When you leave Mist Form or activate Unnatural Movement your Weapon and Spell Damage is increased by 300 for 6 seconds.

SKILLS:
Vampiric Drain: Siphon away your enemies' vitality, dealing 870 Magic Damage and healing you for 25% of your missing Health every 1 second for 3 seconds. Activating this ability grants you gain Major Protection and Major Berserk for 10 seconds.

Mesmerize: Subdue enemies in front of you with your baleful gaze, stunning them for 5 seconds if they are facing your direction. This stun cannot be blocked.
- Hypnosis: Subdue enemies around you with your baleful gaze, stunning them for 5 seconds. This stun cannot be blocked. Enemies are no longer required to be facing your direction.

Mist Form: Disperse into a dark mist, causing the next 3 projectiles to deal no damage to you for 1 second while you dash forward and reappear at your target location after a short duration. Casting again within 4 seconds costs 33% more Magicka. Activating the skill removes snares and immobilizations.

Snare removal would make mist form a fantastic ability, instead of a frustrating one. It's really a no-brainer.

Blood Frenzy:
Allow your monstrous appetites to take hold, increasing your Weapon and Spell Damage by 60 every 2 seconds, up to 5 times. While toggled on, the Health cost of this ability increases by 360 per stack and you cannot be healed by anyone but yourself, your pets, or your Companions. [l]All damage you deal heals you for 1250 Health, up to once every 1 second.[/I]


========
SETS
========
Hopefully ZOS revisits all sets in the game and I have a few proposals for the vampire themed sets here:

Vampire Cloak:
(2 items) Adds 1206 Maximum Health
(3 items) Adds 1206 Maximum Health
(4 items) Adds 129 Weapon and Spell Damage
(5 items) Adds 171 Weapon and Spell Damage. Removes the penalties of your Vampire stages.

I believe these changes will make this set worth choosing for vampire themed builds over sets that are stronger in general.

Vampire Lord:
(2 items) Adds 1096 Maximum Magicka
(3 items) Adds 129 Weapon and Spell Damage
(4 items) Adds 657 Critical Chance
(5 items) Increases the bonuses of your Vampire Stage, depending on how far you've progressed. Stage 1/2/3/4: 5%/10%/15%/20% reduced Vampire Ability cost.

Vampirism is already punishing enough already.

I made the following updates in hopes that ZOS is listening to player feedback:

=========
SKILLS
=========

Blood Frenzy:
Allow your monstrous appetites to take hold, increasing your Weapon and Spell Damage by 60 every 2 seconds, up to 5 times. While toggled on, the Health cost of this ability increases by 360 per stack and you cannot be healed by anyone but yourself, your pets, or your Companions. [l]All damage you deal heals you for 1250 Health, up to once every 1 second.[/I]


========
SETS
========
Hopefully ZOS revisits all sets in the game and I have a few proposals for the vampire themed sets here:

Vampire Cloak:
(2 items) Adds 1206 Maximum Health
(3 items) Adds 1206 Maximum Health
(4 items) Adds 129 Weapon and Spell Damage
(5 items) Adds 171 Weapon and Spell Damage. Removes the penalties of your Vampire stages.

I believe these changes will make this set worth choosing for vampire themed builds over sets that are stronger in general.

Vampire Lord:
(2 items) Adds 1096 Maximum Magicka
(3 items) Adds 129 Weapon and Spell Damage
(4 items) Adds 657 Critical Chance
(5 items) Increases the bonuses of your Vampire Stage, depending on how far you've progressed. Stage 1/2/3/4: 5%/10%/15%/20% reduced Vampire Ability cost.

Vampirism is already punishing enough already.

Soarora

I don’t think frenzy should heal you unless vampire (and other sets like the one that gives you crit damage the less health you have) is reworked to not scale off how much health you have remaining, or if its only one morph that heals you. I already was very frustrated when frenzy got changed so that the damage is so low its easy to outheal by literally any healing skill.

StarOfElyon

Soarora wrote: »

I don’t think frenzy should heal you unless vampire (and other sets like the one that gives you crit damage the less health you have) is reworked to not scale off how much health you have remaining, or if its only one morph that heals you. I already was very frustrated when frenzy got changed so that the damage is so low its easy to outheal by literally any healing skill.

The health cost makes it only useful for gank builds. Making it heal with dealing damage can open it up for more sustained pressure builds. It also adds utility for a one dimensional skill. It's still going to be punishing in a pvp environment for anyone who can't rely on cloak. But part of my philosophy is separating vampires from the nightblade class so I think that'll help.

Soarora

StarOfElyon wrote: »

Soarora wrote: »

I don’t think frenzy should heal you unless vampire (and other sets like the one that gives you crit damage the less health you have) is reworked to not scale off how much health you have remaining, or if its only one morph that heals you. I already was very frustrated when frenzy got changed so that the damage is so low its easy to outheal by literally any healing skill.

The health cost makes it only useful for gank builds. Making it heal with dealing damage can open it up for more sustained pressure builds. It also adds utility for a one dimensional skill. It's still going to be punishing in a pvp environment for anyone who can't rely on cloak. But part of my philosophy is separating vampires from the nightblade class so I think that'll help.

I guess something that would be cooler and more thematically appropriate would be swapping the low-health bonuses (I'm particularly thinking about eviscerate and its morphs) for how much you've healed yourself using vampire abilities. I've never used vampire for anything hardcore, just eternally unhappy my build got destroyed when frenzy got changed haha.

StarOfElyon

Soarora wrote: »

StarOfElyon wrote: »

Soarora wrote: »

I don’t think frenzy should heal you unless vampire (and other sets like the one that gives you crit damage the less health you have) is reworked to not scale off how much health you have remaining, or if its only one morph that heals you. I already was very frustrated when frenzy got changed so that the damage is so low its easy to outheal by literally any healing skill.

The health cost makes it only useful for gank builds. Making it heal with dealing damage can open it up for more sustained pressure builds. It also adds utility for a one dimensional skill. It's still going to be punishing in a pvp environment for anyone who can't rely on cloak. But part of my philosophy is separating vampires from the nightblade class so I think that'll help.

I guess something that would be cooler and more thematically appropriate would be swapping the low-health bonuses (I'm particularly thinking about eviscerate and its morphs) for how much you've healed yourself using vampire abilities. I've never used vampire for anything hardcore, just eternally unhappy my build got destroyed when frenzy got changed haha.

I never played a vampire until Elswery and I only picked it for the look; I didn't use the skills and I so don't remember the old Frenzy.

KaironBlackbard

StarOfElyon wrote: »

StarOfElyon wrote: »

I can't remember if I made a thread on this before (if I did, I can't find it). These changes are very much needed. The suggested changes are in italics:

Rather than revert the changes to the Undeath passive, I believe it would be better to increase the power of Vampires (while being careful not to passively boost the power of the Nightblade class).

Strike from the Shadows: When you leave Mist Form or activate Unnatural Movement your Weapon and Spell Damage is increased by 300 for 6 seconds.

SKILLS:
Vampiric Drain: Siphon away your enemies' vitality, dealing 870 Magic Damage and healing you for 25% of your missing Health every 1 second for 3 seconds. Activating this ability grants you gain Major Protection and Major Berserk for 10 seconds.

Mesmerize: Subdue enemies in front of you with your baleful gaze, stunning them for 5 seconds if they are facing your direction. This stun cannot be blocked.
- Hypnosis: Subdue enemies around you with your baleful gaze, stunning them for 5 seconds. This stun cannot be blocked. Enemies are no longer required to be facing your direction.

Mist Form: Disperse into a dark mist, causing the next 3 projectiles to deal no damage to you for 1 second while you dash forward and reappear at your target location after a short duration. Casting again within 4 seconds costs 33% more Magicka. Activating the skill removes snares and immobilizations.

Snare removal would make mist form a fantastic ability, instead of a frustrating one. It's really a no-brainer.

Blood Frenzy:
Allow your monstrous appetites to take hold, increasing your Weapon and Spell Damage by 60 every 2 seconds, up to 5 times. While toggled on, the Health cost of this ability increases by 360 per stack and you cannot be healed by anyone but yourself, your pets, or your Companions. [l]All damage you deal heals you for 1250 Health, up to once every 1 second.[/I]


========
SETS
========
Hopefully ZOS revisits all sets in the game and I have a few proposals for the vampire themed sets here:

Vampire Cloak:
(2 items) Adds 1206 Maximum Health
(3 items) Adds 1206 Maximum Health
(4 items) Adds 129 Weapon and Spell Damage
(5 items) Adds 171 Weapon and Spell Damage. Removes the penalties of your Vampire stages.

I believe these changes will make this set worth choosing for vampire themed builds over sets that are stronger in general.

Vampire Lord:
(2 items) Adds 1096 Maximum Magicka
(3 items) Adds 129 Weapon and Spell Damage
(4 items) Adds 657 Critical Chance
(5 items) Increases the bonuses of your Vampire Stage, depending on how far you've progressed. Stage 1/2/3/4: 5%/10%/15%/20% reduced Vampire Ability cost.

Vampirism is already punishing enough already.

I made the following updates in hopes that ZOS is listening to player feedback:

=========
SKILLS
=========

Blood Frenzy:
Allow your monstrous appetites to take hold, increasing your Weapon and Spell Damage by 60 every 2 seconds, up to 5 times. While toggled on, the Health cost of this ability increases by 360 per stack and you cannot be healed by anyone but yourself, your pets, or your Companions. [l]All damage you deal heals you for 1250 Health, up to once every 1 second.[/I]


========
SETS
========
Hopefully ZOS revisits all sets in the game and I have a few proposals for the vampire themed sets here:

Vampire Cloak:
(2 items) Adds 1206 Maximum Health
(3 items) Adds 1206 Maximum Health
(4 items) Adds 129 Weapon and Spell Damage
(5 items) Adds 171 Weapon and Spell Damage. Removes the penalties of your Vampire stages.

I believe these changes will make this set worth choosing for vampire themed builds over sets that are stronger in general.

Vampire Lord:
(2 items) Adds 1096 Maximum Magicka
(3 items) Adds 129 Weapon and Spell Damage
(4 items) Adds 657 Critical Chance
(5 items) Increases the bonuses of your Vampire Stage, depending on how far you've progressed. Stage 1/2/3/4: 5%/10%/15%/20% reduced Vampire Ability cost.

Vampirism is already punishing enough already.

The point behind Vampire Cloak wasn't vampirism, it was a universal way to gain Minor Protection at all times.
Don't change that.
Don't delete that.
There is no other set that does it.

Also, a single easy to get overland set that negates vamp penalties is too OP. Maybe by one stage, but not entirely. Plus, what lore do you have for a vampire who had no penalties? Not only is it OP, it's against the lore. And it deletes everyone's universal way to get minor protection at all times.

I do like that Blood Frenzy one though.
However, it might stack with Lotus Flower or Siphoning Strikes (Warden and NB respectively).
Could break a little bit of the NB/Warden Balance.
But for everyone else, it's a nice addition. Especially for Dragonknights as they have few decent heals if any.

StarOfElyon

KaironBlackbard wrote: »

StarOfElyon wrote: »

StarOfElyon wrote: »

I can't remember if I made a thread on this before (if I did, I can't find it). These changes are very much needed. The suggested changes are in italics:

Rather than revert the changes to the Undeath passive, I believe it would be better to increase the power of Vampires (while being careful not to passively boost the power of the Nightblade class).

Strike from the Shadows: When you leave Mist Form or activate Unnatural Movement your Weapon and Spell Damage is increased by 300 for 6 seconds.

SKILLS:
Vampiric Drain: Siphon away your enemies' vitality, dealing 870 Magic Damage and healing you for 25% of your missing Health every 1 second for 3 seconds. Activating this ability grants you gain Major Protection and Major Berserk for 10 seconds.

Mesmerize: Subdue enemies in front of you with your baleful gaze, stunning them for 5 seconds if they are facing your direction. This stun cannot be blocked.
- Hypnosis: Subdue enemies around you with your baleful gaze, stunning them for 5 seconds. This stun cannot be blocked. Enemies are no longer required to be facing your direction.

Mist Form: Disperse into a dark mist, causing the next 3 projectiles to deal no damage to you for 1 second while you dash forward and reappear at your target location after a short duration. Casting again within 4 seconds costs 33% more Magicka. Activating the skill removes snares and immobilizations.

Snare removal would make mist form a fantastic ability, instead of a frustrating one. It's really a no-brainer.

Blood Frenzy:
Allow your monstrous appetites to take hold, increasing your Weapon and Spell Damage by 60 every 2 seconds, up to 5 times. While toggled on, the Health cost of this ability increases by 360 per stack and you cannot be healed by anyone but yourself, your pets, or your Companions. [l]All damage you deal heals you for 1250 Health, up to once every 1 second.[/I]


========
SETS
========
Hopefully ZOS revisits all sets in the game and I have a few proposals for the vampire themed sets here:

Vampire Cloak:
(2 items) Adds 1206 Maximum Health
(3 items) Adds 1206 Maximum Health
(4 items) Adds 129 Weapon and Spell Damage
(5 items) Adds 171 Weapon and Spell Damage. Removes the penalties of your Vampire stages.

I believe these changes will make this set worth choosing for vampire themed builds over sets that are stronger in general.

Vampire Lord:
(2 items) Adds 1096 Maximum Magicka
(3 items) Adds 129 Weapon and Spell Damage
(4 items) Adds 657 Critical Chance
(5 items) Increases the bonuses of your Vampire Stage, depending on how far you've progressed. Stage 1/2/3/4: 5%/10%/15%/20% reduced Vampire Ability cost.

Vampirism is already punishing enough already.

I made the following updates in hopes that ZOS is listening to player feedback:

=========
SKILLS
=========

Blood Frenzy:
Allow your monstrous appetites to take hold, increasing your Weapon and Spell Damage by 60 every 2 seconds, up to 5 times. While toggled on, the Health cost of this ability increases by 360 per stack and you cannot be healed by anyone but yourself, your pets, or your Companions. [l]All damage you deal heals you for 1250 Health, up to once every 1 second.[/I]


========
SETS
========
Hopefully ZOS revisits all sets in the game and I have a few proposals for the vampire themed sets here:

Vampire Cloak:
(2 items) Adds 1206 Maximum Health
(3 items) Adds 1206 Maximum Health
(4 items) Adds 129 Weapon and Spell Damage
(5 items) Adds 171 Weapon and Spell Damage. Removes the penalties of your Vampire stages.

I believe these changes will make this set worth choosing for vampire themed builds over sets that are stronger in general.

Vampire Lord:
(2 items) Adds 1096 Maximum Magicka
(3 items) Adds 129 Weapon and Spell Damage
(4 items) Adds 657 Critical Chance
(5 items) Increases the bonuses of your Vampire Stage, depending on how far you've progressed. Stage 1/2/3/4: 5%/10%/15%/20% reduced Vampire Ability cost.

Vampirism is already punishing enough already.

The point behind Vampire Cloak wasn't vampirism, it was a universal way to gain Minor Protection at all times.
Don't change that.
Don't delete that.
There is no other set that does it.

Also, a single easy to get overland set that negates vamp penalties is too OP. Maybe by one stage, but not entirely. Plus, what lore do you have for a vampire who had no penalties? Not only is it OP, it's against the lore. And it deletes everyone's universal way to get minor protection at all times.

It's a set.. it doesn't change vampires so your precious lore is untouched.

Minor protection is easy to source so no reason to make a fuss about losing that on a set that you need to wear full-time to get the benefit from.

Erickson9610

StarOfElyon wrote: »

Vampire Cloak:
(2 items) Adds 1206 Maximum Health
(3 items) Adds 1206 Maximum Health
(4 items) Adds 129 Weapon and Spell Damage
(5 items) Adds 171 Weapon and Spell Damage. Removes the penalties of your Vampire stages.

I'll offer a similar suggestion for a similar set, inspired by that suggestion:

Hide of the Werewolf:
(2 items) Adds 1096 Maximum Stamina
(3 items) Adds 1096 Maximum Stamina
(4 items) Adds 129 Weapon and Spell Damage
(5 items) Adds 171 Weapon and Spell Damage. While in Werewolf form, removes the increased Poison Damage penalty.


The Ultimate generation from Werewolf Hide is completely useless for your Werewolf form. Isn't it odd that Vampire Cloak has nothing to do with vampires, and Hide of the Werewolf does nothing for werewolves? If a 5-piece set can remove the penalties of Vampire, then this 5-piece set should remove the penalties of Werewolf — although in both cases, they would still take increased damage from Fighters Guild abilities.

I'm sure there are builds which used the Minor Protection from Vampire Cloak and the Ultimate generation from Werewolf Hide, but if one's going to be made thematic, the other should be, too. They're parallels of one another, the way Salvation is to Vampire Lord.

StarOfElyon

Erickson9610 wrote: »

StarOfElyon wrote: »

Vampire Cloak:
(2 items) Adds 1206 Maximum Health
(3 items) Adds 1206 Maximum Health
(4 items) Adds 129 Weapon and Spell Damage
(5 items) Adds 171 Weapon and Spell Damage. Removes the penalties of your Vampire stages.

I'll offer a similar suggestion for a similar set, inspired by that suggestion:

Hide of the Werewolf:
(2 items) Adds 1096 Maximum Stamina
(3 items) Adds 1096 Maximum Stamina
(4 items) Adds 129 Weapon and Spell Damage
(5 items) Adds 171 Weapon and Spell Damage. While in Werewolf form, removes the increased Poison Damage penalty.


The Ultimate generation from Werewolf Hide is completely useless for your Werewolf form. Isn't it odd that Vampire Cloak has nothing to do with vampires, and Hide of the Werewolf does nothing for werewolves? If a 5-piece set can remove the penalties of Vampire, then this 5-piece set should remove the penalties of Werewolf — although in both cases, they would still take increased damage from Fighters Guild abilities.

I'm sure there are builds which used the Minor Protection from Vampire Cloak and the Ultimate generation from Werewolf Hide, but if one's going to be made thematic, the other should be, too. They're parallels of one another, the way Salvation is to Vampire Lord.

I don't see a problem. Of course all of this is something that should be tested in a PTS cycle before it goes live.

KaironBlackbard

Vampire Cloak: Lore: It's not vampire powers, it's more like their attire cloak quite literally, just turned into a set instead of a standalone cloak. It grants minor protection reducing their damage taken.
Gameplay: It's easy to get and is overland. There is a limit on the power score they can give those.

Lore: In no point in recorded history has there been a Vampire who was immune to the negativities of their vampirism at all times.
Gameplay: Plus such power would be a dungeon set, probably a DLC dungeon, making it difficult to get because it is so powerful.

Hide of the Werewolf: you're wearing a Werewolf pelt. Why would wearing a werewolf pelt buff werewolves or reduce their penalties?

StarOfElyon

KaironBlackbard wrote: »

Vampire Cloak: Lore: It's not vampire powers, it's more like their attire cloak quite literally, just turned into a set instead of a standalone cloak. It grants minor protection reducing their damage taken.
Gameplay: It's easy to get and is overland. There is a limit on the power score they can give those.

Lore: In no point in recorded history has there been a Vampire who was immune to the negativities of their vampirism at all times.
Gameplay: Plus such power would be a dungeon set, probably a DLC dungeon, making it difficult to get because it is so powerful.

Hide of the Werewolf: you're wearing a Werewolf pelt. Why would wearing a werewolf pelt buff werewolves or reduce their penalties?

"Easy to get = weaker" is vertical progression. I thought ESO was horizontal. Let's look at the penalties:

Increased cost to non vampire skills. Is that in Vampire lore? My proposed change would mean that their skills have the standard cost.

Increased fire damage. My proposed change to the set will add some protection against it, not immunity. It only means they take standard flame damage while wearing this cloak.

Edit: I forgot about the reduced health recovery penalty. I don't think that's in the lore either but we have it. This set would make vampire health recovery standard.

So protection from extra fire damage (not immunity), standard skill cost, and standard health recovery.

That's all the set would offer. I don't see how this is such a problem.

Erickson9610

I do like the idea of sets that Vampires or Werewolves can use to reduce/remove their penalties, but which give no advantage to non-cursed characters.

For instance, this proposed change to Vampire Cloak shouldn't add Flame Damage resistance, because then non-Vampires could benefit from it — instead, it should reduce the existing penalty for Vampires, so that Vampires and non-Vampires can be on more equal footing. The same should go for the Poison Damage penalty for Werewolves via the Werewolf Hide set, since that's basically the Werewolf equivalent of Vampire Cloak.

StarOfElyon

Erickson9610 wrote: »

I do like the idea of sets that Vampires or Werewolves can use to reduce/remove their penalties, but which give no advantage to non-cursed characters.

For instance, this proposed change to Vampire Cloak shouldn't add Flame Damage resistance, because then non-Vampires could benefit from it — instead, it should reduce the existing penalty for Vampires, so that Vampires and non-Vampires can be on more equal footing. The same should go for the Poison Damage penalty for Werewolves via the Werewolf Hide set, since that's basically the Werewolf equivalent of Vampire Cloak.

Honestly my current set up (Spinners & Clever Alchemist) would probably still be better. Even with my proposed changes to Vampire Cloak, I would have to wear it on the body full time and give up a mythic, or a monster set, and a piece of Trainee. That's just not always worth it. But if I really wanted to roleplay a vampire with vampire themed sets, I wouldn't be completely gimped.

Also, I have a werewolf but haven't leveled those skills yet. When I do, I'm sure I'll have some ideas for the sets because I do look at those every time I pick them up. Another benefit to having these be "easy to get" is that they don't get paywallled.

Erickson9610

StarOfElyon wrote: »

Also, I have a werewolf but haven't leveled those skills yet. When I do, I'm sure I'll have some ideas for the sets because I do look at those every time I pick them up.

Yeah, Salvation is almost completely useless because the reduced Ultimate cost can't be used in-form, but you're given 150 WD/SD which only applies while transformed — at that point, you'd be better off picking a damage set, since the 2-4 piece bonuses of Salvation are just Stamina Recovery and Max Stamina.

Shapeshifter's Chain was as useless as Salvation until the cost reduction was changed to apply to all of Werewolf's abilities, rather than just the unusable Ultimate.

Werewolf Hide is an Ultimate generation set, so it's useless while transformed. Kraglen's Howl is another Ultimate generation set themed after werewolves, so that one's useless, too. Balorgh requires an Ultimate to be cast, so again, that one is ultimately useless.

The only moderately useful non-Mythic Werewolf-themed sets are Blood Moon, Savage Werewolf, and Vykosa, but those are mediocre at best. Shapeshifter's Chain is still the best "Werewolf-themed" set out of the bunch.

MincMincMinc

Crazy idea here, what if vampire actually had some sort of lifesteal.......you know........like a vampire

The most vampire playstyle they put in the game was with the pale order ring, which became unusable in group play(99%) of content.

Avran_Sylt

MincMincMinc wrote: »

Crazy idea here, what if vampire actually had some sort of lifesteal.......you know........like a vampire

The most vampire playstyle they put in the game was with the pale order ring, which became unusable in group play(99%) of content.

Isn't that Vampiric Drain?

As far as generic lifesteal from damage, that'd be way too GCD efficient allowing you to spec all the way into damage and also getting scaling lifesteal from your damage output.

At least with the current counter-healing strength of things like Defile.

StarOfElyon

MincMincMinc wrote: »

Crazy idea here, what if vampire actually had some sort of lifesteal.......you know........like a vampire

The most vampire playstyle they put in the game was with the pale order ring, which became unusable in group play(99%) of content.

I got you fam.

StarOfElyon wrote: »

I made the following updates in hopes that ZOS is listening to player feedback:

=========
SKILLS
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Blood Frenzy:
Allow your monstrous appetites to take hold, increasing your Weapon and Spell Damage by 60 every 2 seconds, up to 5 times. While toggled on, the Health cost of this ability increases by 360 per stack and you cannot be healed by anyone but yourself, your pets, or your Companions. All damage you deal heals you for 1250 Health, up to once every 1 second.


...

Erickson9610

I do think Vampire needs a source of Minor Lifesteal, since it's thematic and would be a valuable buff to have. Some Bleed Damage skills would be nice (although the Magic Damage can proc Overcharged for Minor Magickasteal) and Vampire should have the Charm effect on one morph of Mesmerize, again because it's thematic.

KaironBlackbard

StarOfElyon wrote: »

KaironBlackbard wrote: »

Vampire Cloak: Lore: It's not vampire powers, it's more like their attire cloak quite literally, just turned into a set instead of a standalone cloak. It grants minor protection reducing their damage taken.
Gameplay: It's easy to get and is overland. There is a limit on the power score they can give those.

Lore: In no point in recorded history has there been a Vampire who was immune to the negativities of their vampirism at all times.
Gameplay: Plus such power would be a dungeon set, probably a DLC dungeon, making it difficult to get because it is so powerful.

Hide of the Werewolf: you're wearing a Werewolf pelt. Why would wearing a werewolf pelt buff werewolves or reduce their penalties?

"Easy to get = weaker" is vertical progression. I thought ESO was horizontal. Let's look at the penalties:

Increased cost to non vampire skills. Is that in Vampire lore? My proposed change would mean that their skills have the standard cost.

Increased fire damage. My proposed change to the set will add some protection against it, not immunity. It only means they take standard flame damage while wearing this cloak.

Edit: I forgot about the reduced health recovery penalty. I don't think that's in the lore either but we have it. This set would make vampire health recovery standard.

So protection from extra fire damage (not immunity), standard skill cost, and standard health recovery.

That's all the set would offer. I don't see how this is such a problem.

Increased Fire Damage Taken is increased by 50% in the lore.
Recovery decreased by 15% per stage in the lore. All recoveries not just Health. We have it easy, though health recovery itself it worse.
Abilities were progressed or unlocked by getting higher stage, feeding reduces stage, reducing stage locks vampire abilities for that stage, etc.

KaironBlackbard

Erickson9610 wrote: »

I do like the idea of sets that Vampires or Werewolves can use to reduce/remove their penalties, but which give no advantage to non-cursed characters.

For instance, this proposed change to Vampire Cloak shouldn't add Flame Damage resistance, because then non-Vampires could benefit from it — instead, it should reduce the existing penalty for Vampires, so that Vampires and non-Vampires can be on more equal footing. The same should go for the Poison Damage penalty for Werewolves via the Werewolf Hide set, since that's basically the Werewolf equivalent of Vampire Cloak.

Then make another set to grant everyone Minor Protection. Give the current Vampire Cloak set a different name. As it is now, it'll do more harm than good by nuking a set that some people do actively use.

While you're at it, if you're so intent on nuking Vampire Cloak, then also nuke Hunding's Rage and Spriggans. Orders Wrath. And all those other big name sets.

KaironBlackbard

Erickson9610 wrote: »

I do think Vampire needs a source of Minor Lifesteal, since it's thematic and would be a valuable buff to have.

Undertaker. Blood Fount.
Healer: Force Siphon.

Erickson9610 wrote: »

Vampire should have the Charm effect on one morph of Mesmerize, again because it's thematic.

Agreed.


Hey, folks that have Werewolves AND Vampires. Do you prefer transform or keepsake? Do you prefer getting a unique bar and attack style when you cast curse ult or maintaining your bar and weapon?
I think I'd prefer if Scion was more like Werewolf, but magic instead of stamina. Like Skyrim.
I could even speculate on the versions the abilities would have in ESO compared to Skyrim.

Erickson9610

KaironBlackbard wrote: »

Hey, folks that have Werewolves AND Vampires. Do you prefer transform or keepsake? Do you prefer getting a unique bar and attack style when you cast curse ult or maintaining your bar and weapon?
I think I'd prefer if Scion was more like Werewolf, but magic instead of stamina. Like Skyrim.
I could even speculate on the versions the abilities would have in ESO compared to Skyrim.

Wouldn't this basically be the "Vampire Lord" transformation in Chaosball? It just turns you into a Blood Scion, forces you to use a bar of only Vampire skills, but also gives you a brand new Ultimate ability to use.

I personally would've liked Blood Scion to be a parallel of Vampire Lord from TES V: Skyrim, where once again upon transforming you're limited to only a few abilities, but unlike Werewolf, your transformation is unlimited and free to toggle on or off at will. Though I wonder how many people would actually use the equivalent of Skyrim's Vampire Lord in ESO, if Werewolf is already laughed at for being an undesirable "self nerf" due to its unique limitations.

Taril

KaironBlackbard wrote: »

Hey, folks that have Werewolves AND Vampires. Do you prefer transform or keepsake? Do you prefer getting a unique bar and attack style when you cast curse ult or maintaining your bar and weapon?

Depends on the character.

Sometimes I like full on transformation, others I like retaining abilities.

In general, I'm a fan of Werewolf allowing you to go full animal and getting new, savage abilities. It feels appropriate given that Werewolf is often depicted as a complete transformation, even going so far as to rewire your brain into a pure animal brain working off of raw instinct (To the point where a werewolf can actually go around not knowing they're a werewolf as they have no memory of transforming or what happened while transformed.

To say nothing about the overall aggression and savagery they're normally associated with.

While I was never fond of Skyrim's Scion form, or really the notion of "Transforming" as a Vampire. Like, part of the appeal of Vampirism is that you are able to blend into society. You're not necessarily a monster, you just have this additional power (And a reliance on blood... So, uhh... Sorry to that one bloke who lives alone next to that specific fast travel point...).

All this tosh about "Transforming" into some sort of demon-esk monster as a Vampire kind of takes away a lot of the fantasy about it (Especially as it feels you're more like all those lame lesser vampires that are just feral monsters more so than any kind of awesome vampire lord)

Like, Dracula is cool because he just seems like a normal dude. He has an unassuming stature and besides being somewhat pale he's just a chill guy. But when provoked, he can lay the smack down on anyone who dares defy him and can bring literal hell to his enemies because of his vampire abilities.

KaironBlackbard

I mean, in Skyrim you still had basic vampire abilities and unlocks in human form, just got a different set in Lord form (or Scion form as they are calling it in ESO.)

Skyrim Stats




https://elderscrolls.fandom.com/wiki/Vampirism_(Skyrim)
https://elderscrolls.fandom.com/wiki/Vampire_Lord








I can theorize the conversion to ESO.

KaironBlackbard

Theorizing Prt 1
Blood Magic Bar
Light attacks - fire a magic bolt
Fully Charged Heavy attacks - lob an explosive ball of life steal, and restores magicka
1) Reanimate Corpse - can't be cast on bosses or most major enemies, only minor and some single bars.
2) Vampiric Grip - instead of a pull, strangle, and launch, it'll instead be purely a pull ability like DK.
3) Summon Gargoyle - Like summon shade or summon skeletal mage.
4) Corpse Curse - Stun

Melee Bar
Light attacks - melee damage
Fully Charged Heavy attacks - kills activate a feed that restores to full health. Some creatures aren't affected, most humanoids are. Also restores stamina.
1) Bats - dash/escape
2) Vampire Sight - reveal or spammable detection potion via magicka instead of potion
3) Detect All Creatures - the highlight through walls thing Scion passively has right now?
4) Mist Form - Reset - reduce damage taken and reduce regen penalties
5) Supernatural Reflexes - speed boost, maybe also attack speed boost like Blood Moon or Ferocious Howl

Passives
Increase Resources while transformed
Fully charged heavy attack kill restores all health (and has special animation)
Reduce Scion power costs
Night Cloak: a swarm of bats damages nearby enemies you are in combat with and heals you
Talons deal extra damage as poison damage (20%? 10%?)
Natural Passive: Stage still effects Scion form, whether for better or for worse. (Better being vs frost, worse being vs fire and less recoveries. If only they would apply daylight cycle effects into the game world, I know they have a daylight cycle in the game. Then players would be able to time when they are active, play during the limited dark hours to ignore the penalty against recoveries, play during the common hours of daylight to suffer it.)

NORMAL FORM
Stage 1

• Resist Frost 5%
• Weakness to Fire 5%
• Champion of the Night: Stun/Illusion spells cast by the Vampire last longer.
• Nightstalker's Footsteps: The Vampire is 25% harder to detect.
• Vampiric Strength: Increase unarmed damage by 5%
• Weakness to Sunlight: Recoveries reduced by 15%
• Access to these spells for slotting if purchased and have level: Vampiric Drain, Vampiric Sight, Vampire's Servant

Stage 2

• Resist Frost 7.5%
• Weakness to Fire 7.5%
• Champion of the Night: Stun/Illusion spells cast by the Vampire last longer.
• Nightstalker's Footsteps: The Vampire is 25% harder to detect.
• Vampiric Strength: Increase unarmed damage by 10%
• Weakness to Sunlight: Recoveries reduced by 30%
• Access to these spells for slotting if purchased and have level: Vampiric Drain, Vampiric Sight, Vampire's Servant, Vampire's Seduction

Stage 3

• Resist Frost 10%
• Weakness to Fire 10%
• Champion of the Night: Stun/Illusion spells cast by the Vampire last longer.
• Nightstalker's Footsteps: The Vampire is 25% harder to detect.
• Vampiric Strength: Increase unarmed damage by 15%
• Weakness to Sunlight: Recoveries reduced by 45%
• Access to these spells for slotting if purchased and have level: Vampiric Drain, Vampiric Sight, Vampire's Servant, Vampire's Seduction

Stage 4

• Resist Frost 15%
• Weakness to Fire 15%
• Some NPCs refuse to talk to you.
• Champion of the Night: Stun/Illusion spells cast by the Vampire last longer.
• Nightstalker's Footsteps: The Vampire is 25% harder to detect.
• Vampiric Strength: Increase unarmed damage by 20%
• Weakness to Sunlight: Recoveries reduced by 60%
• Access to these spells for slotting if purchased and have level: Vampiric Drain, Vampiric Sight, Vampire's Servant, Vampire's Seduction, Embrace of Shadows

Vampiric Drain: damaging spell that heals
Vampiric Sight: reveal / spammable mini detection potion
Vampire's Servant: Reanimate weak dead / Reanimate minion class target
Vampiric Seduction: Mesmerize
Embrace of Shadows: Invisibility with dark areas appearing brighter, perhaps improvement to stealth detection while active

Some effects might be passive unlocks rather than naturally occuring passives. Penalties are of course natural.