Needed changes for Vampire skill line and Vampire sets

StarOfElyon

I want to add to the list of sets that I feel are connected to Vampires (or maybe specifically characters who are Vampire hunters). I know that I'm increasing the power of the sets but I am against vertical progression. I'm far more interested in having OPTIONS in sets, not a linear progression of power in sets, ranging from easy to obtain (less powerful) to harder to obtain (more powerful). Sets that have to be worn full-time to get their effects should be stronger than sets that can be back-barred or front-barred. I'm interested in seeing people's thoughts though.

Meridia's Blessed Armor:
(2 items) Adds 1487 Armor
(3 items) Adds 129 Stamina Recovery
(4 items) Adds 1487 Armor
(5 items) Gain Minor Protection at all times. When you Block, you gain Meridia's Blessed Armor for 5 seconds, causing you to dodge all incoming attacks. This effect can occur once every 25 seconds.

Considering the changes I'm proposing for Vampire's Cloak, I think adding the Minor Protection to Meridia's Blessed Armor makes it a suitable replacement. Minor Protection is easy to source but I think it fits the theme of this set being protective.

Stendarr's Embrace:
(2 items) Adds 129 Magicka Recovery
(3 items) Adds 1096 Maximum Magicka
(4 items) Adds 1096 Maximum Magicka
(5 items) You take 10% less damage from undead enemies, Vampires, and Werewolves. When you heal yourself or an ally, you remove all negative effects from them. This effect can occur once every 30 seconds per target.

Turtle_Bot

Part of the issue surrounding a set that removes all vamp penalties is that we need to look at what those penalties are and what the bonuses are:

Lets look at stage 3 Vamp (most common stage being ran due to undeath passive):

"Costs" of being vamp stage 3.
-60% health recovery (this is very punishing for long drawn out fights)
+13% flame damage taken
+8% regular ability cost (this is the only reason that post undeath nerf vampire is a choice and not mandatory, this sustain hit is big)

Bonuses for being stage 3 (from all passives)
-16% vamp ability cost
Ignore movement penalty of sneak (this is another big reason many still run vampire even at just stage 1)
50% reduced crouch fade time
+300 weapon/spell damage when leaving stealth/invis/mistform
up to +15% mitigation

A set that removes the penalties would be the equivalent of a set that gave the following stats:
13% mitigation against flame damage (one of the more common damage types)
8% cost reduction
150% increased health recovery (150% increase on the reduced value is equal to 60% reduction of the non-reduced value due to how percentage changes work)

Each one of those bonuses would be enough for its own 5 piece bonus on an overland set (8% cost reduction already is its own 5th piece bonus on the overland seducer set and that's limited to magicka abilities only, not everything).

Taking it to stage 4 it becomes even more OP.
indeterminant bonus to health recovery (there's no percent value that equals a 100% reduction of something)
20% mitigation against flame damage
12% cost reduction
and being stage 4 also unlocks unnatural movement passive for invisibility while sprinting.

This being a permanent bonus is why such a set would be broken. That is an insane amount of sustain and mitigation from just 1 set.

Now if the set was something like:
Vampire Cloak:
(2 items) Adds 1206 Maximum Health
(3 items) Adds 1206 Maximum Health
(4 items) Adds 129 Weapon and Spell Damage
(5 items) Adds 171 Weapon and Spell Damage. Reduces the penalties of your Vampirism stage by 1 stage. When you cast Blood Scion, the penalties are disabled entirely for X duration.

This would still be very strong, but more balanced. It provides a permanent bonus all the time (reduction in penalties by 1 stage is still strong), then it ties in with the ultimate, where for a period of time on cast the penalties are completely negated, but this massive buff comes with an associated cost and enforced cooldown (using one of the most expensive ultimates in the game).

This would obviously come paired with a rework to the perfect scion morph, since this set is now doing most of what that morph currently does.

StarOfElyon

Turtle_Bot wrote: »

Part of the issue surrounding a set that removes all vamp penalties is that we need to look at what those penalties are and what the bonuses are:

Lets look at stage 3 Vamp (most common stage being ran due to undeath passive):

"Costs" of being vamp stage 3.
-60% health recovery (this is very punishing for long drawn out fights)
+13% flame damage taken
+8% regular ability cost (this is the only reason that post undeath nerf vampire is a choice and not mandatory, this sustain hit is big)

Bonuses for being stage 3 (from all passives)
-16% vamp ability cost
Ignore movement penalty of sneak (this is another big reason many still run vampire even at just stage 1)
50% reduced crouch fade time
+300 weapon/spell damage when leaving stealth/invis/mistform
up to +15% mitigation

A set that removes the penalties would be the equivalent of a set that gave the following stats:
13% mitigation against flame damage (one of the more common damage types)
8% cost reduction
150% increased health recovery (150% increase on the reduced value is equal to 60% reduction of the non-reduced value due to how percentage changes work)

Each one of those bonuses would be enough for its own 5 piece bonus on an overland set (8% cost reduction already is its own 5th piece bonus on the overland seducer set and that's limited to magicka abilities only, not everything).

Taking it to stage 4 it becomes even more OP.
indeterminant bonus to health recovery (there's no percent value that equals a 100% reduction of something)
20% mitigation against flame damage
12% cost reduction
and being stage 4 also unlocks unnatural movement passive for invisibility while sprinting.

This being a permanent bonus is why such a set would be broken. That is an insane amount of sustain and mitigation from just 1 set.

Now if the set was something like:
Vampire Cloak:
(2 items) Adds 1206 Maximum Health
(3 items) Adds 1206 Maximum Health
(4 items) Adds 129 Weapon and Spell Damage
(5 items) Adds 171 Weapon and Spell Damage. Reduces the penalties of your Vampirism stage by 1 stage. When you cast Blood Scion, the penalties are disabled entirely for X duration.

This would still be very strong, but more balanced. It provides a permanent bonus all the time (reduction in penalties by 1 stage is still strong), then it ties in with the ultimate, where for a period of time on cast the penalties are completely negated, but this massive buff comes with an associated cost and enforced cooldown (using one of the most expensive ultimates in the game).

This would obviously come paired with a rework to the perfect scion morph, since this set is now doing most of what that morph currently does.

It might require the Perfect Scion to be reworked but to my knowledge most players don't pick that morph. I think the set would still be niche and anyone who plays with the Perfect Scion morph already wouldn't bother to use the set.

KaironBlackbard

StarOfElyon wrote: »

I want to add to the list of sets that I feel are connected to Vampires (or maybe specifically characters who are Vampire hunters). I know that I'm increasing the power of the sets but I am against vertical progression. I'm far more interested in having OPTIONS in sets, not a linear progression of power in sets, ranging from easy to obtain (less powerful) to harder to obtain (more powerful). Sets that have to be worn full-time to get their effects should be stronger than sets that can be back-barred or front-barred. I'm interested in seeing people's thoughts though.

Meridia's Blessed Armor:
(2 items) Adds 1487 Armor
(3 items) Adds 129 Stamina Recovery
(4 items) Adds 1487 Armor
(5 items) Gain Minor Protection at all times. When you Block, you gain Meridia's Blessed Armor for 5 seconds, causing you to dodge all incoming attacks. This effect can occur once every 25 seconds.

Considering the changes I'm proposing for Vampire's Cloak, I think adding the Minor Protection to Meridia's Blessed Armor makes it a suitable replacement. Minor Protection is easy to source but I think it fits the theme of this set being protective.

Stendarr's Embrace:
(2 items) Adds 129 Magicka Recovery
(3 items) Adds 1096 Maximum Magicka
(4 items) Adds 1096 Maximum Magicka
(5 items) You take 10% less damage from undead enemies, Vampires, and Werewolves. When you heal yourself or an ally, you remove all negative effects from them. This effect can occur once every 30 seconds per target.

I love it. This would be a perfect replacement for Vampire Cloak if it gets changed.

KaironBlackbard

Turtle_Bot wrote: »

Part of the issue surrounding a set that removes all vamp penalties is that we need to look at what those penalties are and what the bonuses are:

Lets look at stage 3 Vamp (most common stage being ran due to undeath passive):

"Costs" of being vamp stage 3.
-60% health recovery (this is very punishing for long drawn out fights)
+13% flame damage taken
+8% regular ability cost (this is the only reason that post undeath nerf vampire is a choice and not mandatory, this sustain hit is big)

Bonuses for being stage 3 (from all passives)
-16% vamp ability cost
Ignore movement penalty of sneak (this is another big reason many still run vampire even at just stage 1)
50% reduced crouch fade time
+300 weapon/spell damage when leaving stealth/invis/mistform
up to +15% mitigation

A set that removes the penalties would be the equivalent of a set that gave the following stats:
13% mitigation against flame damage (one of the more common damage types)
8% cost reduction
150% increased health recovery (150% increase on the reduced value is equal to 60% reduction of the non-reduced value due to how percentage changes work)

Each one of those bonuses would be enough for its own 5 piece bonus on an overland set (8% cost reduction already is its own 5th piece bonus on the overland seducer set and that's limited to magicka abilities only, not everything).

Taking it to stage 4 it becomes even more OP.
indeterminant bonus to health recovery (there's no percent value that equals a 100% reduction of something)
20% mitigation against flame damage
12% cost reduction
and being stage 4 also unlocks unnatural movement passive for invisibility while sprinting.

This being a permanent bonus is why such a set would be broken. That is an insane amount of sustain and mitigation from just 1 set.

Now if the set was something like:
Vampire Cloak:
(2 items) Adds 1206 Maximum Health
(3 items) Adds 1206 Maximum Health
(4 items) Adds 129 Weapon and Spell Damage
(5 items) Adds 171 Weapon and Spell Damage. Reduces the penalties of your Vampirism stage by 1 stage. When you cast Blood Scion, the penalties are disabled entirely for X duration.

This would still be very strong, but more balanced. It provides a permanent bonus all the time (reduction in penalties by 1 stage is still strong), then it ties in with the ultimate, where for a period of time on cast the penalties are completely negated, but this massive buff comes with an associated cost and enforced cooldown (using one of the most expensive ultimates in the game).

This would obviously come paired with a rework to the perfect scion morph, since this set is now doing most of what that morph currently does.

Blood Scion: gain AoE in Scion Form.
Perfect Scion: Ignore the penalties of vampirism and enjoy all the benefits of stage 4. Doesn't leave you ate stage 4 but at whatever stage you were before you cast, because it doesn't change/affect your stage or its timer.

Adding a set that applies perfected to blood scion negates any reason to use perfected.

I agree with the 1 stage reduced penalties thing though. As long as another set takes the Minor Protection if this set no longer keeps it.

Do you have a rework in mind for Perfected?