Lich Concept

Tessitura · May 2014

The_Sadist wrote: »

1. My solution was make Essence Barrier drain stamina for a Savant and Magicka for a Death Knight. Another fix was changing the Dark Symbiosis passive to gain magicka when an enemy dies as opposed to giving Magicka / Stamina regeneration in combat (which was changed on the other forum but not here)

2. I think Deep Freeze should change to 'Chains of Oblivion', basically an AoE spell which deals frost damage and snares the target, potential morphs could include magicka drain per target hit or something. Deep Freeze is pretty lacklustre given there are several better crowd control spells out there. Alternatively give it an AoE and a DoT while reducing the stun time.

3. I agree and stated the same thing, just a reduced heal from potions would suffice. I don't agree there should be lich specific potions though, that's a bit silly.

4. I disagree, the healing received should go up to 50% or something, making plague paramount and actually providing a pretty bad debuff alongside mediocre 25% fire weakness. The key aspect is Plague, once you get it on several targets you're fine.. but I think the debuff should count for ALL heals, regardless of spell type.

5. I agree, OP, probably won't happen. The magicka regeneration while fighting plague targets might be iffy but you gain magicka from their death which should suffice, like previously mentioned changing how essence barrier works in an option.

6. I think on the other forums we agreed an 'undead mastery' passive would be a good replacement for spirit walk.. spirit walk is a bit odd for a lich and seems pretty bad as a passive. Basically all summons and spectres gain additional spells and potentially other abilities. No more actives, so far the rule of thumb is 2 actives, 1 ultimate and 6 passives (7 in this case due to the decision)

7. Interesting concept but I don't think it would work, I can see it being a decent spell to replace the lacklustre deep freeze.. but eh, given how the current corpses work and whatnot I don't know.

8. Disagree, you're already a full lich, I like the ultimate + morphs already in place (granted 5% damage needs to be buffed as spectres v flat damage.. I know which one I'd pick). Furthermore this is another way of adding Plague, which as a lich you'd need pretty badly. The key here is balance, and I think going 'lich mode' would be pretty OP. Like I mentioned earlier you're already a lich, the idea of having to toggle lich mode means all your passives and whatnot probably shouldn't have any impact while you're in 'human' form.. like the werewolves.

9. I don't see why not, purely visual and whatnot.

10. Either or, they are both relatively suitable but I agree, Wraiths make a bit more sense as you're plucking a soul from somewhere and not finding a random dead Nord.

11. Eh, not all liches are 'feral' but are skeletal and I think there should be some sort of visual aspect to it. I recall reading a lore book that Mannimarco looked alien due to his transformation and while he maintained his appearance via magic it was still.. not quite right and he looked different

Love the idea of being a lich and want a necromancer class, not a guild skill line, an actual class.

4- Disagree, 50% along with 25% weakness to fire is way too heavy of a debuff. If you do the 50% healing received, then you have to drop the fire debuff. Other wise 25% plus 25% to equal a 50% weakness is fine and keeps it on the level of the Werewolf and Vampire weaknesses. The plague heals are not strong enough for that massive of a weakness, and making them much stronger would border on OP.

8- Ok I can agree with that and like it better even.

11- I know I responded to the visual already, but I have been thinking and have what I feel is a better idea then the one I stated before. How about have a stage systems like the vamps, stage 1 being full or very human/mer/beastfolk and subtly increasing as days go by. Instead of "feeding" you simple must re-perform a ritual to conceal your true self every few days ( in-game days ) making a rough 24 hour period in real life before you start showing signs of your undead visage. Inevitably, as days go by and the ritual's magic fades, you show your full lich form in all its horror and glory. Unlike the vamps stages this would just be a visual effect for aesthetic purposes and will not make you stronger as it advances in the stages. After all, you said it your self, we are already full liches, just disguised to operate with normal mortals.

I would only like to see a full class of necromancer if I could switch from my current or add it to the class list of my current class. I really do not want to start all over again to play with necro abilities ( I will, but I would not be happy about it .).

navystylz_ESO · May 2014

Tessitura wrote: »

The_Sadist wrote: »

1. My solution was make Essence Barrier drain stamina for a Savant and Magicka for a Death Knight. Another fix was changing the Dark Symbiosis passive to gain magicka when an enemy dies as opposed to giving Magicka / Stamina regeneration in combat (which was changed on the other forum but not here)

2. I think Deep Freeze should change to 'Chains of Oblivion', basically an AoE spell which deals frost damage and snares the target, potential morphs could include magicka drain per target hit or something. Deep Freeze is pretty lacklustre given there are several better crowd control spells out there. Alternatively give it an AoE and a DoT while reducing the stun time.

3. I agree and stated the same thing, just a reduced heal from potions would suffice. I don't agree there should be lich specific potions though, that's a bit silly.

4. I disagree, the healing received should go up to 50% or something, making plague paramount and actually providing a pretty bad debuff alongside mediocre 25% fire weakness. The key aspect is Plague, once you get it on several targets you're fine.. but I think the debuff should count for ALL heals, regardless of spell type.

5. I agree, OP, probably won't happen. The magicka regeneration while fighting plague targets might be iffy but you gain magicka from their death which should suffice, like previously mentioned changing how essence barrier works in an option.

6. I think on the other forums we agreed an 'undead mastery' passive would be a good replacement for spirit walk.. spirit walk is a bit odd for a lich and seems pretty bad as a passive. Basically all summons and spectres gain additional spells and potentially other abilities. No more actives, so far the rule of thumb is 2 actives, 1 ultimate and 6 passives (7 in this case due to the decision)

7. Interesting concept but I don't think it would work, I can see it being a decent spell to replace the lacklustre deep freeze.. but eh, given how the current corpses work and whatnot I don't know.

8. Disagree, you're already a full lich, I like the ultimate + morphs already in place (granted 5% damage needs to be buffed as spectres v flat damage.. I know which one I'd pick). Furthermore this is another way of adding Plague, which as a lich you'd need pretty badly. The key here is balance, and I think going 'lich mode' would be pretty OP. Like I mentioned earlier you're already a lich, the idea of having to toggle lich mode means all your passives and whatnot probably shouldn't have any impact while you're in 'human' form.. like the werewolves.

9. I don't see why not, purely visual and whatnot.

10. Either or, they are both relatively suitable but I agree, Wraiths make a bit more sense as you're plucking a soul from somewhere and not finding a random dead Nord.

11. Eh, not all liches are 'feral' but are skeletal and I think there should be some sort of visual aspect to it. I recall reading a lore book that Mannimarco looked alien due to his transformation and while he maintained his appearance via magic it was still.. not quite right and he looked different

Love the idea of being a lich and want a necromancer class, not a guild skill line, an actual class.

4- Disagree, 50% along with 25% weakness to fire is way too heavy of a debuff. If you do the 50% healing received, then you have to drop the fire debuff. Other wise 25% plus 25% to equal a 50% weakness is fine and keeps it on the level of the Werewolf and Vampire weaknesses. The plague heals are not strong enough for that massive of a weakness, and making them much stronger would border on OP.

8- Ok I can agree with that and like it better even.

11- I know I responded to the visual already, but I have been thinking and have what I feel is a better idea then the one I stated before. How about have a stage systems like the vamps, stage 1 being full or very human/mer/beastfolk and subtly increasing as days go by. Instead of "feeding" you simple must re-perform a ritual to conceal your true self every few days ( in-game days ) making a rough 24 hour period in real life before you start showing signs of your undead visage. Inevitably, as days go by and the ritual's magic fades, you show your full lich form in all its horror and glory. Unlike the vamps stages this would just be a visual effect for aesthetic purposes and will not make you stronger as it advances in the stages. After all, you said it your self, we are already full liches, just disguised to operate with normal mortals.

I would only like to see a full class of necromancer if I could switch from my current or add it to the class list of my current class. I really do not want to start all over again to play with necro abilities ( I will, but I would not be happy about it .).

Sounds like a good compromise. People will inevitably be on both sides of the spectrum when it comes to how undead they want to look at a lich. As long as staying looking human isn't as annoying as vampire is at times.

The_Sadist · May 2014

@navystylz_ESO

1. Well that morph sucks if that's the case, do you need to be literally on the corpse to get the Well? or does the Well have a reasonable AoE? Either way I'll take the extra damage!

2. Yes, but Elder Scrolls necromancers typically used frost magic alongside summoning, there's no bone shields or blood magic, the closest to blood magic which makes sense is if summons are toggle based they should take a % of health instead of magicka due to the nature of necromancy, it also weakens the caster which means if you choose to summon 3 things you lose 30% total HP so while your army gets stronger, you get weaker. So like I said, disease makes sense as a DoT due to handling the dead and whatnot, Frost makes sense as CC / support as Elder Scrolls necromancers used frost and summoning obviously makes sense as well, however HP v Magicka due to the nature of necromancy.

3. Are you going to remove the 'no heals from potions' in your draw back any time soon and simply increase the reduction from heals to a higher number? Also when are you going to change the Dark Symbiosis passive to the magicka gain upon death? WHY ARE YOU NOT UPDATING AS WE GO?!

@Tessitura

1. The vamp wasn't horrible, it seemed pretty typical for an Elder Scrolls vampire and as your stages progress you look more undead.. I think stage 1 should have been basically normal though, as lore speaking they're meant to look almost normal in this stage. Blue eyes and a ritual mark could be fine, but I know people who would want the whole skeletal shebang.

EDIT: missed these

2. I disagree with your disagreement (disagreeception!), Liches look incredibly overpowered in their current state, a mediocre fire weakness paired with a mediocre heal debuff would be a vampire all over again. Throw on a fire resist ring and your 25% weakness to fire is soso, throw on a healing received set and suddenly your debuff is down to 15%, which is honestly nothing.. basically you become incredibly strong at little costs. What are you talking about? Plague heals 15% of the damage done to plagued targets (at max level).. Cast pulsar as a Savant -> hit with pulsar -> 15% of x damage to y target. An example is you hit 300 per pulsar and there's 3 targets, that's 135 healing.. paired with evil hunter or something and you're self healing for a lot of damage AND that isn't taking into account essence drain + blocking as defensive health loss preventative. So yes, I think the negatives need to be reworked or the whole concept needs to be watered down by a massive heap. Vampires are currently pretty rocking despite 50% weakness to fire and no health regeneration at stage 4, why? Because of fire resistance glyphs and heals from a restoration staff.. Let's be honest here, the Lich seems 100 times better comparatively as well in terms of passives and useful spells. The negatives need to balance out the positives in order to make a person really question choosing this path.. 25% fire weakness and 25% reduction to all heals just doesn't cut it, something like 25-35% fire weakness and 40-50% reduction to heals might make a player question this choice.

3. I like the concept and if it's for purely visual effects I don't see why not, however there has to be some indication that you're a Lich, so some sort of body marking and eye change.

4. If/when they release new classes I'll be happy to level from the ground up, the same is true for a necromancer class. I would drop everything just to play my 'dream' class xD.

@Lord_Hev

1. I agree, Liches are weaker to fire and typically resistant to most other types of magicka and I do feel they should have 25-35% fire weakness.

2. I disagree with your further drawback, the second drawback mentioned was the reduction in heals from all sources. I personally think 50% would be extremely harsh and therefore you'd be dependent on your plague debuff but some people think that's a bit too much. Furthermore, that makes no real sense, as your fighter's guild abilities don't deal any more or less damage to Liches in the wild.

Lord_Hev · May 2014

The_Sadist wrote: »

4. If/when they release new classes I'll be happy to level from the ground up, the same is true for a necromancer class. I would drop everything just to play my 'dream' class xD.

Yep, same here. Should they add a necromancer, or a conjurer class(how about both into one for a raw summoner class lol?) I'd happily start over. At least, my main can craft for my new alt and it'll be easy to stay on-top of my level.

99%(no joke) of my characters in every TES game has dabbled in summoning to some extent, rather it be daedra, or undead. Usually both because I like both equally.

The Sorcerer class is a good start. But I feel we need a true dedicated summoner class. Seeing everyone with the same exact two summons gets old very fast.

Mr Bo Jingles · May 2014

Hmm. Seems like a cool idea. Needs some refining, but great start. /tumbsup

The_Sadist · May 2014

@Lord_Hev

I feel they went about making the Sorcerer class incorrectly and instead of a daedric summoning class skill line they should have had a spirit class skill line (simply put sorcerers typically commune with the dead). This would have left room for a conjure class with one skill line summoning winged twilights and other minor daedra plus there could have been an elementalist class which could have summoned the flame/frost/storm atronachs etc etc. But I don't see it changing so that's that. I disagree with the notion of fusing the necromancer into a conjurer class, a necromancer should be it's own class and, like I keep saying, have a frost / snare tree, poison DoT / debuff tree and a necromancy (undead summoning) / blood support tree.

Most of my characters are necromancers in whatever game allows it, however in earlier Elder Scrolls games undead were typically much weaker compared to the daedra, that was until reanimate dead spells made an appearance. So I'd be happy to re-roll and make a necromancer if it becomes an option.

I disagree, several classes which have summoning lines would suffice, a Warlock might be a 'spirit' line option (warlock / sorcerer, same difference

), a Necromancer with an 'undead' line or an Elementalist with an 'atronach' line. There are so many possibilities!

I've recently been thinking about the concept of a Dragon Priest world skill line but given the lack of dragons in game and the era it's set in it mightn't be all that relevant.

navystylz_ESO · May 2014

The_Sadist wrote: »

@navystylz_ESO

1. Well that morph sucks if that's the case, do you need to be literally on the corpse to get the Well? or does the Well have a reasonable AoE? Either way I'll take the extra damage!

3. Are you going to remove the 'no heals from potions' in your draw back any time soon and simply increase the reduction from heals to a higher number? Also when are you going to change the Dark Symbiosis passive to the magicka gain upon death? WHY ARE YOU NOT UPDATING AS WE GO?!

If/when they release new classes I'll be happy to level from the ground up, the same is true for a necromancer class. I would drop everything just to play my 'dream' class xD.

1. Well well wasn't originally my idea. That was just a suggestion of how it 'could' be. What you expect a well or a friggin lake? It would have decent size aoe, but if you're going to have a power that gives a ton of magicka regen, on top of all the other ways to regain mana, there has to be a cost. This is utiltity for group, more so than yourself. Tank or melee would have to move to well and drag the enemy/boss with them. Range won't have problems. Tradeoffs. Don't want infinite mana wielding liches/groupmates now.

Ok, ok... will update. Lol, you guys really getting into this concept.

And necro class is the 'only' way I'd ever level up another character unless they nerfed the heck out of veteran leveling and made it easier.

navystylz_ESO · May 2014

There... updated a lot. Added new effect on well to link player to it as long as they pass through it at least.

The_Sadist · May 2014

@navystylz_ESO‌

1. Fair enough. When I think of a well I think of it having a small AoE, but that being said a massive lake WOULD be broken

. Also this passive needs to be limited, so numerous Liches couldn't stack a crazy amount in-combat regeneration. You mentioned the issue at hand in your comment though, so at least you're aware of the potential issue! But regardless, I'd go for the alternative morph, seems more useful. EDIT: you're editing as I'm writing this, a bit unfortunate, for the well is it 6% TOTAL magicka recovered per second for standing on a well for an undetermined amount of time seems a bit crazy, even if the trade off is no heals for that time. If a player was to recover 15% total magicka for simply running through a well and is still subject to heals.. well, that's also a bit OP. Run through well -> hit hit hit -> run through another well -> hit hit hit.
How would Transient Veil work? you cast elemental ring with a fire staff and deal 300 damage + burning DoT + general magic damage DoT. So would you deal 15% of the initial damage and the DoT would last for the same time and deal 15% of the initial DoT damage?

2. You have a few spelling mistakes here and there (the Minion Master unless glacial explosion = unleash glacial explosion) (Atronoch = Atronach), also you crossed off the deep freeze + morphs only to paste the same skill set xD (EDIT: you seemed to change it as I finished writing this). Furthermore, in the Plague Zombie morph you mentioned a Dreugh Frostmage, which should be a Draugr Frostmage at any rate. Moreover, I thought we all agreed that Liches could use potions but they should be subject to reduction. Lastly, Desolation needs a buff.. 5% damage is minimal.

3. Loving the Minion Master passive by the way.. though my issue would be the cross over with (hopefully) future Necromancer class, Flesh Atronach and whatnot. So do your summons BECOME new monsters? Bone colossus becomes Flesh Atronach when the passive is taken? Likewise does the Dreugh Frostmage (should be Draugr) become a Skeletal Frostmage (EDIT: you addressed this issue as well)? Lastly the Plague Zombie doesn't appear to get an additional spell.

My characters are only at veteran rank 1, I plan on levelling one of each class to veteran rank 1 for lols before maxing my Sorcerer.

navystylz_ESO · May 2014

More edits in. Also changed in TF forums. Let's not get too caught up on numbers. It's not like I'm actually coding this stuff and balancing it. It's just a concept.

Gave the well a duration, the link is for the duration of the well at half effect. Changed to 2% per second for total of 30% magicka if you stayed on it the whole time, which you won't.

Ways it would be used.

1. Some regen when mobs are dead, doesn't effect anything really. Equilibrium gives more mana and anyone can take.
2. Lots of pulls which means you gotta pull them to well or suffer half it's effect and keep up momentum. Which the lich is built on aoe and momentum prosper.
3. Boss has adds. Kill adds, make well, get some well regen allowing some max burn on boss.

The_Sadist · May 2014

@navystylz_ESO‌

I'll start leaving an hour or two been responses in order to allow for edits and whatnot.

Like I said a few issues:

1. Spelling mistakes here and there (Atronoch = Atronach, unless = unleash)

2. The whole potion aspect which we disagree on (but perhaps you should put a note there about it, both ideas).

3. Potentially harsher weakness, I like where it's heading though, -35% healing is good, -50% might be a bit tough.. but -35% still seems.. lacking, being healed for 65 damage instead of 100 paired with your plague passive is just not enough.

4. How about for desolation ALLIES gain the ability to restore health from plagued targets at a 50% rate, so when maxed allies gain 8% hp (rounded up) per hit with the relevant ability (spells / magicka based spells for Savant and stamina based spells / weapon attacks for Death Knight) alongside the 5% increase to damage.

5. Savant's spectres need to last like 15-20 seconds to make use of the Minion Master passive, but I suppose being able to use your SPELLS to benefit from plague is good enough.. Whereas the Death Knight require WEAPONS or STAMINA based spells (caps to emphasise the the difference, which I don't think is clear in the passive).

navystylz_ESO · May 2014

The_Sadist wrote: »

@navystylz_ESO‌

I'll start leaving an hour or two been responses in order to allow for edits and whatnot.

Like I said a few issues:

1. Spelling mistakes here and there (Atronoch = Atronach, unless = unleash)

2. The whole potion aspect which we disagree on (but perhaps you should put a note there about it, both ideas).

3. Potentially harsher weakness, I like where it's heading though, -35% healing is good, -50% might be a bit tough.. but -35% still seems.. lacking, being healed for 65 damage instead of 100 paired with your plague passive is just not enough.

4. How about for desolation ALLIES gain the ability to restore health from plagued targets at a 50% rate, so when maxed allies gain 8% hp (rounded up) per hit with the relevant ability (spells / magicka based spells for Savant and stamina based spells / weapon attacks for Death Knight) alongside the 5% increase to damage.

5. Savant's spectres need to last like 15-20 seconds to make use of the Minion Master passive, but I suppose being able to use your SPELLS to benefit from plague is good enough.. Whereas the Death Knight require WEAPONS or STAMINA based spells (caps to emphasise the the difference, which I don't think is clear in the passive).

1. Ah will get them.

2. Thought I edited it out.

3. Too hard and no one will take it... fire might be boosted a bit. But you're speaking in terms of having a pocket healer. No skill line should make having a dedicated healer useless and not every lich will themselves be a healer. And let's not forget you still have slot limitations. Honestly I think the limitations now are enough. There's no point in having a system that can heal you as you play if the weakness makes it break even. Even if breaking even only happens when you have things to damage. The better fix would be to cap amount of targets you can benefit heals from like all other aoes (that been fixed or were already working correctly).

4. Like it. Though have to be careful not to make dedicated healers worthless. If every dps lich can restore mana and health to allies relatively easy without being specced into heals you run into a problem.

Right now I think many skills/synergy (not the allies click X for effect, but how things work together) still need fixing. So how this would all work together is bit theorycrafting.

5. Not all buffs can be convenient. Part of life as a lich is learning how to get those buffs/summons to pop and roll with your momentum and maximize how much benefit you're getting. I meant to include in that if a new spectre summons, the oldest one is replaced by the newest.

This would requires liches to get a rolling start, but very strong as long as they maintain momentum as a savant, at least, will have spectres up continuously being refreshed. If you stop this momentum then you SHOULD SUFFER the loss of dps until you start up the momentum again.

Let's remember that the dps capability of the classes remain intact. Nothing about being a lich debuffs your damage (except if you are enchanting jewelrys to mitigate weakness rather than taking +dmg). So spectres are added dps, and while sure they will help keep your plague healing up, some classes are already insanely powerful, even in aoe style. AoE DKs and Sorcs for example. Having lich's spectres up TOO easily will make them broken.

The_Sadist · May 2014

@navystylz_ESO‌

1. Sorry, normally a bit iffy about spelling and whatnot, I typically edit my posts because I misspell something, I mean nothing by it... simply if a Dev reads it or something.

2. I think it's a change for the better, but I'm happy to discuss it further.

3. I'm sort of in agreement only every Lich WILL be able to self heal depending on which Savant / Death Knight is taken. Liches will heal themselves for a very decent amount. Well, if you don't have anything to damage odds are you won't need to heal regardless! Fair enough, maybe a set amount of targets can be plagued at once, though how many is up in the air. All in all I'm okay with the negatives my issue is.. do the negatives balance the positives?

4. Perhaps make it so they receive 1/3, so 5% instead of 8%. 5% isn't a whole lot but is nice to have, paired with the 10% damage increase change you edited I feel that this would balance out the other Morph and make the decision hard.

I agree, that's why we're here, to discuss things! I'm trying to get a 'core' down before we balance and work out the details, well, sort of.

5. Fair enough, I'm inclined to agree, 10 second spectre would be fine, given that Savants also heal from spells, that's a pretty decent passive. The 'replace old with new' would be handy and help maintain spectres.

I agree, between the spectres for the Savant, killing monsters for magicka / corpse exploitation and maintaining the plague debuff there's a bit of 'must hit and kill things', which I like.

So do we agree on the differences between Savant and Death Knight? Where Savant's spells cause the plague debuff whereas a Death Knight uses weapons AND stamina based abilities?

Trosski · May 2014

I see one giant glaring hole in this concept... You have no soul to store, so technically you are kind of a lich already.

navystylz_ESO · May 2014

Trosski wrote: »

I see one giant glaring hole in this concept... You have no soul to store, so technically you are kind of a lich already.

Only a hole if you haven't reached veteran content.

navystylz_ESO · May 2014

The_Sadist wrote: »

@navystylz_ESO‌

I agree, that's why we're here, to discuss things! I'm trying to get a 'core' down before we balance and work out the details, well, sort of.

So do we agree on the differences between Savant and Death Knight? Where Savant's spells cause the plague debuff whereas a Death Knight uses weapons AND stamina based abilities?

Well then, I think we have a good core down. *cough ok Zos take it from here* lol

And yes about Savant and Death Knight...

Tessitura · May 2014

It's all coming together. The debuff seems to be at a good place. Nothing crushing or too crippling; a fair debuff to off set the power of a player lich. Reduce healing received by 35% and weakness to fire by 25% is looking really good to me.

Love seeing the well idea up there!!! Now if I could just get the Ritual Stage idea up there > . >

Hope ZOS jumps on this; I feel like we are handing them gold.

navystylz_ESO · May 2014

Tessitura wrote: »

It's all coming together. The debuff seems to be at a good place. Nothing crushing or too crippling; a fair debuff to off set the power of a player lich. Reduce healing received by 35% and weakness to fire by 25% is looking really good to me.

Love seeing the well idea up there!!! Now if I could just get the Ritual Stage idea up there > . >

Hope ZOS jumps on this; I feel like we are handing them gold.

Oh, let me add it

Tessitura · May 2014

navystylz_ESO wrote: »

Oh, let me add it

Woot! \o/

The_Sadist · May 2014

@Trosski‌

Having your soul stolen and undergoing dark rituals to achieve immortality are two different things, also what Navystylz mentioned!

@navystylz_ESO‌

Yay! I like the look of everything, obviously numbers and stuff can be changed but I do hope the idea is picked up.. I'll probably continue to post my frustrations at the lack of Lich until we get some official. Now that we're done here.. gogo necromancer?! Thinking of sitting down and making a guild line and a class concept idea, but eh, lazy currently and exams. I'd like to think I contributed to the master piece that is the theorycrafting of the Lich!

@Tessitura‌

I agree, while it may take some time to implement / balance numbers it is an interesting concept.. a bit of recognition would be lovely from someone higher up.

EDIT! Currently in the process of writing a rough concept of the Necromancer class, I feel you guys would probably want in on it, I'll literally be doing an outline of the skill line in terms of what they do and whatnot. So while no spell theorycrafting is happening just yet, I want to put pen to paper and get this ball rolling.

http://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/discussion/96734/necromancy-class-concept?new=1

navystylz_ESO · May 2014

The_Sadist wrote: »

@Trosski‌
Yay! I like the look of everything, obviously numbers and stuff can be changed but I do hope the idea is picked up.. I'll probably continue to post my frustrations at the lack of Lich until we get some official. Now that we're done here.. gogo necromancer?! Thinking of sitting down and making a guild line and a class concept idea, but eh, lazy currently and exams. I'd like to think I contributed to the master piece that is the theorycrafting of the Lich!

EDIT! Currently in the process of writing a rough concept of the Necromancer class, I feel you guys would probably want in on it, I'll literally be doing an outline of the skill line in terms of what they do and whatnot. So while no spell theorycrafting is happening just yet, I want to put pen to paper and get this ball rolling.

http://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/discussion/96734/necromancy-class-concept?new=1

You guys did... I like it.

Now to start working on a necromancer without stepping on toes of lich too much. The summons will have to be slightly different.

The_Sadist · May 2014

navystylz_ESO wrote: »

The_Sadist wrote: »

@Trosski‌
Yay! I like the look of everything, obviously numbers and stuff can be changed but I do hope the idea is picked up.. I'll probably continue to post my frustrations at the lack of Lich until we get some official. Now that we're done here.. gogo necromancer?! Thinking of sitting down and making a guild line and a class concept idea, but eh, lazy currently and exams. I'd like to think I contributed to the master piece that is the theorycrafting of the Lich!

EDIT! Currently in the process of writing a rough concept of the Necromancer class, I feel you guys would probably want in on it, I'll literally be doing an outline of the skill line in terms of what they do and whatnot. So while no spell theorycrafting is happening just yet, I want to put pen to paper and get this ball rolling.

http://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/discussion/96734/necromancy-class-concept?new=1

You guys did... I like it.

Now to start working on a necromancer without stepping on toes of lich too much. The summons will have to be slightly different.

As mentioned in my comment I've made a thread and thrown down some groundwork, happy to have you join in and co-own the thing so to speak. Making several Necromancer concepts mightn't be ideal, making one thread about it could suffice.

http://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/discussion/96734/necromancy-class-concept?new=1

navystylz_ESO · May 2014

The_Sadist wrote: »

navystylz_ESO wrote: »

The_Sadist wrote: »

@Trosski‌
Yay! I like the look of everything, obviously numbers and stuff can be changed but I do hope the idea is picked up.. I'll probably continue to post my frustrations at the lack of Lich until we get some official. Now that we're done here.. gogo necromancer?! Thinking of sitting down and making a guild line and a class concept idea, but eh, lazy currently and exams. I'd like to think I contributed to the master piece that is the theorycrafting of the Lich!

EDIT! Currently in the process of writing a rough concept of the Necromancer class, I feel you guys would probably want in on it, I'll literally be doing an outline of the skill line in terms of what they do and whatnot. So while no spell theorycrafting is happening just yet, I want to put pen to paper and get this ball rolling.

http://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/discussion/96734/necromancy-class-concept?new=1

You guys did... I like it.

Now to start working on a necromancer without stepping on toes of lich too much. The summons will have to be slightly different.

As mentioned in my comment I've made a thread and thrown down some groundwork, happy to have you join in and co-own the thing so to speak. Making several Necromancer concepts mightn't be ideal, making one thread about it could suffice.

http://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/discussion/96734/necromancy-class-concept?new=1

Ya, I meant jumping in on your thread with input.

Sleepydan · May 2014

Two things.

First, I would play the *** out of this skill line. It looks very cool and well themed and I have only good things to say in that regard.

Second, my problem. Every player in teso is a soulless husk. We are the vestige. How are we supposed to bind our soul outside our body when mannimarco stole it?

The_Sadist · May 2014

Sleepydan wrote: »

Two things.

First, I would play the *** out of this skill line. It looks very cool and well themed and I have only good things to say in that regard.

Second, my problem. Every player in teso is a soulless husk. We are the vestige. How are we supposed to bind our soul outside our body when mannimarco stole it?

1. Awesome source! I completely agree, it would be an amazing experience.

2. Finish the main quest line, hit vet rank 1, complete Cold Harbour and get back to me, I'm not going to spoil anything for you but I think it's obvious what I'm hinting at. Also despite being 'the good guy' in most games I frequently did 'bad' or 'immoral' things, so we may be the vestige.. but who says anything about the vestige being good once the day is saved?

Tessitura · May 2014

The_Sadist wrote: »

2. Finish the main quest line, hit vet rank 1, complete Cold Harbour and get back to me, I'm not going to spoil anything for you but I think it's obvious what I'm hinting at. Also despite being 'the good guy' in most games I frequently did 'bad' or 'immoral' things, so we may be the vestige.. but who says anything about the vestige being good once the day is saved?

Or that he/she has to use good or honorable methods to accomplish the goal of saving the day. Perhaps the stakes are just too high to worry about the means, or whether they are honorable.

The_Sadist · May 2014

Tessitura wrote: »

The_Sadist wrote: »

2. Finish the main quest line, hit vet rank 1, complete Cold Harbour and get back to me, I'm not going to spoil anything for you but I think it's obvious what I'm hinting at. Also despite being 'the good guy' in most games I frequently did 'bad' or 'immoral' things, so we may be the vestige.. but who says anything about the vestige being good once the day is saved?

Or that he/she has to use good or honorable methods to accomplish the goal of saving the day. Perhaps the stakes are just too high to worry about the means, or whether they are honorable.

I was thinking something along the lines of doing what had to be done in order to save my own skin. In Morrowind I became the Nerevarine for power and to end the blight which had the potential to kill me. In Oblivion I did what had to be done in order to gain favour amongst the people and hopefully become the king after removing the competition. So while my intentions may have appeared honourable, it's not hard to put a twist on things depending on your outlook. Perhaps I disliked Mannimarco due to his refusal to teach me, or the concept of the two realms merging didn't appeal to me.

Tessitura · May 2014

Just got a great idea for a Morph of Defile. I was thinking about it and then it hit me. I remembered that I have seen the same ability being used my a boss, but with a cool twist. when it ended it summoned 4 skeletons to fight any near by player.

Why not have that as a morph instead of the " 5% increase to damage taken."
We could play with the number of skeletons summoned but I think it is a much better and less boring idea! Tell me what you think.

Tessitura · May 2014

Another quick opinion drop.

This is not a big issue was just thinking about it, but would in not make more since to have the tanky summons be a Bone Colossus for the Lich? I say this because bones and skeletons fit the lich more as ancient looking summons. Where as flesh weaving seems to me to be more a necromancer's cup of tea. Also combining bones to make a large bone golem seems more lich like in general to me.

I have an idea to throw up on how it might work

1-- Bone Colossus: Tanky damager, Has a taunt and can summon skeletons of its own. The skeletons explode on death.

Or something like that.

Lord_Hev · May 2014

Tessitura wrote: »

Another quick opinion drop.

This is not a big issue was just thinking about it, but would in not make more since to have the tanky summons be a Bone Colossus for the Lich? I say this because bones and skeletons fit the lich more as ancient looking summons. Where as flesh weaving seems to me to be more a necromancer's cup of tea. Also combining bones to make a large bone golem seems more lich like in general to me.

I have an idea to throw up on how it might work

1-- Bone Colossus: Tanky damager, Has a taunt and can summon skeletons of its own. The skeletons explode on death.

Or something like that.

Yep, I suggested this earlier. Like, an inverse of the Sorcerer's Storm Atronach. The key is balancing him, as he'll be fully mobile.(I'd prefer)