[ToT] A bug that leads to a question

ESO_player123 · November 7

I've encountered an interesting bug today when I was not able to see my opponent's name (see screenshots below). I've never seen this, and I play a lot. It was an interesting experience - playing blind. This made me want to ask the ToT community a question: would you like a ToT mode where you do not see who you are playing with?

Edit: my question is about a possible hypothetical new casual mode. In ranked mode players of course should see their opponents

spartaxoxo · November 7

Yeah. I was worried about that type of thing before but having tried it another game, it works great. The only thing needed to make it work is a small record of our last few matches (and the results) so we can still block and report as needed.

I noticed that "next match with someone" trash talk or throwing decreased significantly once we were able to be anonymous. They had the anonymity through a streamer mode.

sayswhoto · November 7

The ToT PC NA competitive ladder is shrinking to the point where we can recognize each other by patron choice and playstyle, so not sure if it would help too much at this point.

I do like to see who I'm playing with since some people have expressed in-game they do not like the high win rate/toxic meta. If I remember those people, I will choose different patrons even if it reduces my chance of winning. Not everyone wants to play a game where you Orgnum/Rahjin/Alessia spam from the start, if applicable. Although top of the ladder is usually ok with this since they are more understanding of the need to win.

SeaGtGruff · November 7

spartaxoxo wrote: »

They had the anonymity through a streamer mode.

Say what? Is that a thing in ESO now? How do you enable it?

spartaxoxo · November 7

SeaGtGruff wrote: »

spartaxoxo wrote: »

They had the anonymity through a streamer mode.

Say what? Is that a thing in ESO now? How do you enable it?

In the other game I played.

DinoZavr · November 7

ESO_player123 wrote: »

This made me want to ask the ToT community a question: would you like a ToT mode where you do not see who you are playing with?

No. Under no circumstances. NO!
There already are MANY players, who abuse you delaying theirs moves to take all 90 seconds.
With such mode implemented others can freely abuse you staying anonymous. So this mode SHALL seriously promote unsportsmanship and toxic behaviour, as now you have zero clue whom you are to report.

ESO_player123 · November 7

DinoZavr wrote: »

ESO_player123 wrote: »

This made me want to ask the ToT community a question: would you like a ToT mode where you do not see who you are playing with?

No. Under no circumstances. NO!
There already are MANY players, who abuse you delaying theirs moves to take all 90 seconds.
With such mode implemented others can freely abuse you staying anonymous. So this mode SHALL seriously promote unsportsmanship and toxic behaviour, as now you have zero clue whom you are to report.

Are you reporting people for taking all 90 seconds? While I had encountered such people, and they are annoying, I do not see what reporting them can change. They are not abusing a bug and stay within the rules of the game (yes, very annoying).

ESO_player123 · November 7

sayswhoto wrote: »

The ToT PC NA competitive ladder is shrinking to the point where we can recognize each other by patron choice and playstyle, so not sure if it would help too much at this point.

I do like to see who I'm playing with since some people have expressed in-game they do not like the high win rate/toxic meta. If I remember those people, I will choose different patrons even if it reduces my chance of winning. Not everyone wants to play a game where you Orgnum/Rahjin/Alessia spam from the start, if applicable. Although top of the ladder is usually ok with this since they are more understanding of the need to win.

I should probably clarify that my question is about a new casual mode. In ranked mode players of course should see their opponents.

DinoZavr · November 7

ESO_player123 wrote: »

Are you reporting people for taking all 90 seconds? While I had encountered such people, and they are annoying, I do not see what reporting them can change. They are not abusing a bug and stay within the rules of the game (yes, very annoying).

No. But these very players made me to STOP playing ToT completely.
in my stats on average every third player behaves this way.
My life is too short to throw away half an hour for one very boring and very annoying game.
let them play with each other.

ESO_player123 · November 7

DinoZavr wrote: »

ESO_player123 wrote: »

Are you reporting people for taking all 90 seconds? While I had encountered such people, and they are annoying, I do not see what reporting them can change. They are not abusing a bug and stay within the rules of the game (yes, very annoying).

No. But these very players made me to STOP playing ToT completely.
in my stats on average every third player behaves this way.
My life is too short to throw away half an hour for one very boring and very annoying game.
let them play with each other.

Every third? That is unlucky. I cannot say that I have a similar experience. Here and there, yes, I do see a deliberate stalling, and I recognize the names of such players. But in many cases one can tell that the opponent is just a less experienced player or just thinking their turn through).

DinoZavr · November 7

on the second thought:

now we have "Classical" games only

Zenimax easily can implement:
Rapid - with total game time control like 5 minutes PER PLAYER, so slowpokes lose being "flagged" by time
Blitz - where time to complete move is calculated with the number of possible cards in play
Bullet - with even stricter (2 or 3 minutes) time control per player

as for Blitz: i believe Zenimax has millions of games recorded and AI simply can clarify to what group a certain players belong to:
abuser, slow-thinker, normal player, fast thinker, blitz genius, so matchmaking can be done. Of course, if game makers do care.
Which is what i am, unfortunately, no longer believe. With years game becomes uncomfortable, inconvenient, flashy and very dumb.
This evolution is so apparent.

The solution is also obvious: if Zenimax could hire Developers who really care about the game they make
ToT Time control topics are common, as existing game allows to abuse others not breaking a single rule.
Why Developers pay no attention to that? - They are given no time and not paid to improve the features which are already implemented. This is the very formal and heartless approach. This results in "don't play if you don't like".
And, yes, i don't play ToT versus humans anymore.

Personofsecrets · November 7

I wonder what would have happened if you had the TOT addon button that writes the opponents name to the chat window.

ESO_player123 · November 7

DinoZavr wrote: »

on the second thought:

now we have "Classical" games only

Zenimax easily can implement:
Rapid - with total game time control like 5 minutes PER PLAYER, so slowpokes lose being "flagged" by time
Blitz - where time to complete move is calculated with the number of possible cards in play
Bullet - with even stricter (2 or 3 minutes) time control per player

as for Blitz: i believe Zenimax has millions of games recorded and AI simply can clarify to what group a certain players belong to:
abuser, slow-thinker, normal player, fast thinker, blitz genius, so matchmaking can be done. Of course, if game makers do care.
Which is what i am, unfortunately, no longer believe. With years game becomes uncomfortable, inconvenient, flashy and very dumb.
This evolution is so apparent.

The solution is also obvious: if Zenimax could hire Developers who really care about the game they make
ToT Time control topics are common, as existing game allows to abuse others not breaking a single rule.
Why Developers pay no attention to that? - They are given no time and not paid to improve the features which are already implemented. This is the very formal and heartless approach. This results in "don't play if you don't like".
And, yes, i don't play ToT versus humans anymore.

Definitely a NO to allowing AI to determine the "type of player". If any hypothetical new mode is added to the game(and, yes, this is a discussion about a hypothetical mode, not a request to make one), the players should choose which mode to play.

ESO_player123 · November 7

Personofsecrets wrote: »

I wonder what would have happened if you had the TOT addon button that writes the opponents name to the chat window.

That is an interesting question. But for the purpose of the discussion let's assume that it's not allowed. I'm just curious if the players would be interested in playing in such mode (not requesting it from the developers).

Personofsecrets · November 7

Yea, maybe it could be a good mode. It's hard to say how much "knowing the opponent" is good for the game and if that knowledge should be freely available.

Erickson9610 · November 7

Does it really matter knowing who you're up against? Their strategies change depending on which patrons are selected.

I don't see what difference a mode that hides the opponent's name would make.

Personofsecrets · November 7

Erickson9610 wrote: »

Does it really matter knowing who you're up against? Their strategies change depending on which patrons are selected.

I don't see what difference a mode that hides the opponent's name would make.

Some players play in their own unique ways.

What is right to them isn't necessarily right to others.

It's possible to know how an opponent thinks and what plays they may prefer to make based on experiences of playing against them. Knowing these things is a type of strategic advantage.

Erickson9610 · November 7

Personofsecrets wrote: »

Erickson9610 wrote: »

Does it really matter knowing who you're up against? Their strategies change depending on which patrons are selected.

I don't see what difference a mode that hides the opponent's name would make.

Some players play in their own unique ways.

What is right to them isn't necessarily right to others.

It's possible to know how an opponent thinks and what plays they may prefer to make based on experiences of playing against them. Knowing these things is a type of strategic advantage.

Oh, that makes sense. Ideally, this would only be an issue with the competitive queue, which is meant to match you with players of similar ranking. It'd make sense to hide the names of players in those games.

But the unranked casual queue shouldn't have that problem. Sure, not many people are actually in the unranked casual queue (I've certainly seen the same names repeatedly) but the issue of knowing who you're playing against is supposed to diminish given a larger pool of players.

That's why hiding the names in the competitive queue (as there aren't as many people in your echelon versus in the casual queue) makes sense.

DinoZavr · November 7

ESO_player123 wrote: »

DinoZavr wrote: »

Zenimax easily can implement:
Rapid - with total game time control like 5 minutes PER PLAYER, so slowpokes lose being "flagged" by time
Blitz - where time to complete move is calculated with the number of possible cards in play
Bullet - with even stricter (2 or 3 minutes) time control per player

as for Blitz: i believe Zenimax has millions of games recorded and AI simply can clarify to what group a certain players belong to:
abuser, slow-thinker, normal player, fast thinker, blitz genius, so matchmaking can be done. Of course, if game makers do care.
Which is what i am, unfortunately, no longer believe. With years game becomes uncomfortable, inconvenient, flashy and very dumb.
This evolution is so apparent.

The solution is also obvious: if Zenimax could hire Developers who really care about the game they make
ToT Time control topics are common, as existing game allows to abuse others not breaking a single rule.
Why Developers pay no attention to that? - They are given no time and not paid to improve the features which are already implemented. This is the very formal and heartless approach. This results in "don't play if you don't like".
And, yes, i don't play ToT versus humans anymore.

Definitely a NO to allowing AI to determine the "type of player". If any hypothetical new mode is added to the game(and, yes, this is a discussion about a hypothetical mode, not a request to make one), the players should choose which mode to play.

IF "fast" modes implemented then there will be no need to classify players.
i meant AI could be of the great help to determine how much time is actually spent on average by the players with different playstyles (very slow, slow, ordinary, fast, and uber-fast) - this could help to implement "fast" time control which would not cause much whines.
And "it is too fast for me" has a solution - continue to play "classic" and spend your minute and a half per each turn.

"Fast" modes can alleviate the issue when players exploit 90 seconds per turn limit, and i would be glad,
if after some AI analysis Zeni could come with faster ToT tournaments. Like in chess: classic/rapid/blitz/bullet. yes?

edit:
Still i would not object if game determines and remembers the AVERAGE time player spends per move
as this can only improve matchmaking within tiers providing matches between two 80 sec players or 15s vs 20s, not 20s vs 80s.
because, why not?

Personofsecrets · November 7

We are still waiting for balance updates, but maybe some of these other ideas could be implemented too.

ESO_player123 · November 7

One of the reasons I thought about this mode is that I've seen several people saying on the forums that they are nervous to play against other players and thus play only against NPCs. The reasons for being nervous may differ of course: other players are too strong, the desire to avoid possible unpleasant post-game whispers, or just not wanting to be in a situation "I lost to this player 3 times in a row". While making an anonymous mode does not make humans close to NPCs in level, it could potentially bring a relief to some other situations (of course I'm assuming that no addons can reveal the name of the opponent).

DinoZavr · November 7

@ESO_player123, on PC the addon ExoYs Tributes Enhancement conveniently changes your status to offline/away/DND/online according with the type of game you have selected,
and, yes, salty whispers are even more common in ToT than in Cyrodiil

ESO_player123 · November 7

DinoZavr wrote: »

@ESO_player123, on PC the addon ExoYs Tributes Enhancement conveniently changes your status to offline/away/DND/online according with the type of game you have selected,
and, yes, salty whispers are even more common in ToT than in Cyrodiil

@DinoZavr Interesting information. Thanks. I am on PC, but, unfortunately, console players have no access to addons.

HatchetHaro · November 7

But if I can't see their names, I can't message them GG 5 turns before my inevitable victory!

Personofsecrets · November 7

Lol, I won't be able to tell my opponent that they won 20 turns before I get some cheesy pay off that decides the game in my favor.