1.0.8. No need even for a maintenance

Phantax · May 2014

NiRN wrote: »

Are people really still expecting magic patches that fix all the glaring troubles with ESO? Three words...

Free To Play

And If I hear those 3 words I'll have 3 of my own to add....

Bye Bye Zeni !

lol

Milanna · May 2014

Ur-Quan wrote: »

Somebody stole my sweetroll :'(

I´m sure someone is investigating that.

l-wilson-1986b16_ESO · May 2014

Ur-Quan wrote: »

ralurielb16_ESO wrote: »

While his tone may have been rather forthright, he has a very valid point. As a Software Technical Lead/Product Owner myself I can get through an average of 15 bugs a day alone.

Um, no you can't. Not if you're doing any testing.

Ever heard of Murphy's Law? Probably not if you aren't a developer, you should google it, it states for every 10 defects you fix regardless of testing you are going to be guaranteed to introduce at least one more.

Taking so long to fix the issues with skills is just not acceptable, they have released several patches without fixing any major skill line issues! The simple fact is every development language is the same in that it uses a series of if else statements which may contain some algorithms for calculating damage or which weapons are affected by a skill. If they can increase the cost of an ability, they can certainly fix the percentage of damage it does or what weapons are affected by which skill with extreme ease. If it isn't easy to adjust values then honestly, there is something seriously wrong with your codebase. Phasing and grouping problems certainly take some time, but changing some database values or adjusting a calculation should be the easiest of their bugs to resolve.

I read the patch notes for the big Craglorn release, it certainly didn't mention many skill line fixes (it was a week ago so it could have changed). Peoples comments from PTS certainly indicate they haven't resolved many Nightblade issues.

The simple fact is, that they have scaled a dungeon and added timer based rewards on a collection of classes and skill lines which are beyond broken, and the entire concept of that is absolutely rediculous to me.

I used to argue about how the game needed to be pay to play to ensure we got quality, service and quick resolution on issues. That is what they promised, and it's not something I personally see them delivering.

Arreyanne · May 2014

l-wilson-1986b16_ESO wrote: »

Ur-Quan wrote: »

ralurielb16_ESO wrote: »

While his tone may have been rather forthright, he has a very valid point. As a Software Technical Lead/Product Owner myself I can get through an average of 15 bugs a day alone.

Um, no you can't. Not if you're doing any testing.

**SNIP**

I used to argue about how the game needed to be pay to play to ensure we got quality, service and quick resolution on issues. That is what they promised, and it's not something I personally see them delivering.

Finally someone quit beating that dead horse.

P2P does not guarantee those things and never will

r4v3nw0lf · May 2014

How about this? The day they have maintenance just log off go outside and get sun..do the dishes ..laundry take a shower..live. Do stuff that needs to be done in your lives and consider it a break from this artificial reality. Those really mad at waiting consider the server down for the day in this case Monday and Thursday. Play the game the other days. Do stuff other than complain constantly..do something constructive MONDAY and THURSDAY. Then the game downtime does not seem to be a earth shattering.. mind jarring end of days experience. Are you really addicted to online activities that it is all you are?

Loxy37 · May 2014

I've managed to change to werewolf form once in 2 days because the timer keeps resetting.

Lucardes · May 2014

I unsubbed today, game is done soon...

kirnmalidus · May 2014

l-wilson-1986b16_ESO wrote: »

I read the patch notes for the big Craglorn release, it certainly didn't mention many skill line fixes (it was a week ago so it could have changed). Peoples comments from PTS certainly indicate they haven't resolved many Nightblade issues.

Umm… what? http://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/discussion/93350/nightblades-are-gonna-be-fotm-when-fixed

kirnmalidus · May 2014

Lucardes wrote: »

I unsubbed today, game is done soon...

Seriously how many threads did you post this in? Nobody cares enough to justify posting it once, and this is the second comment I've seen from you with this statement.

Kiwi · May 2014

im sure the people on macs will appreciate it.
lots of progress blockers removed, yea not so bad,

seem like a solid set of patch notes to me

UrQuan · May 2014

l-wilson-1986b16_ESO wrote: »

Ur-Quan wrote: »

ralurielb16_ESO wrote: »

While his tone may have been rather forthright, he has a very valid point. As a Software Technical Lead/Product Owner myself I can get through an average of 15 bugs a day alone.

Um, no you can't. Not if you're doing any testing.

Ever heard of Murphy's Law? Probably not if you aren't a developer, you should google it, it states for every 10 defects you fix regardless of testing you are going to be guaranteed to introduce at least one more.

Actually, Murphy's Law is "anything that can go wrong will go wrong" and it's been around for a lot longer than there have been developers. Since the 19th century at least.

Also, I've been working in software development for years - I know that you'll always introduce new defects regardless of how much testing you do, but I also know that without proper test cycles (at a minimum 1 round each of unit testing, QA testing, and user acceptance testing - possibly more depending on what is found in those tests, and ideally at least one QA and user acceptance cycle should be done in an environment using a copy of the production database so you can see it with real data) you'll introduce 10X the defects... Of course, I'm talking about actual functionality fixes here, simple issues wouldn't necessarily need that.

l-wilson-1986b16_ESO · May 2014

Ur-Quan wrote: »

l-wilson-1986b16_ESO wrote: »

Ur-Quan wrote: »

ralurielb16_ESO wrote: »

While his tone may have been rather forthright, he has a very valid point. As a Software Technical Lead/Product Owner myself I can get through an average of 15 bugs a day alone.

Um, no you can't. Not if you're doing any testing.

Ever heard of Murphy's Law? Probably not if you aren't a developer, you should google it, it states for every 10 defects you fix regardless of testing you are going to be guaranteed to introduce at least one more.

Actually, Murphy's Law is "anything that can go wrong will go wrong" and it's been around for a lot longer than there have been developers. Since the 19th century at least.

Also, I've been working in software development for years - I know that you'll always introduce new defects regardless of how much testing you do, but I also know that without proper test cycles (at a minimum 1 round each of unit testing, QA testing, and user acceptance testing - possibly more depending on what is found in those tests, and ideally at least one QA and user acceptance cycle should be done in an environment using a copy of the production database so you can see it with real data) you'll introduce 10X the defects... Of course, I'm talking about actual functionality fixes here, simple issues wouldn't necessarily need that.

Actually you're right, my apologies I meant mythical man month which makes reference to murphy's law.

Still after a big release, fixing 15 defects (which mostly in my experience will not actually all be defects so much as change this word, colour, order of content during UAT) in one day is not unreasonable which is what you were suggesting (doing it every day certainly but that's not what the poster said).

Either way I am certainly not lamenting the fact there are bugs, it's inevitable. The problem is that most of these bugs could have been avoided by working in the process you outlined. The problem is, unlike in other area's of software development where there may be 1-10 clients paying up to hundreds of thousands each for a product, games have anywhere from hundreds of thousands to millions of customers all paying a nominal amount for the product (excluding straight up purchase).

This leads to complacency from financial investors (who cares if someone quits, someone new will take their place) who then put pressure on the development company to release. This in turn leads to developer crunching in order to try and release the product as soon as possible. The problem with crunch is that typically the devs will either over engineer their logic, or under engineer their logic due to pressure and exhaustion, making it a nightmare to go back and make minor tweaks (I obviously cannot say for certain this happened at Zenimax, but lets be honest, crunching isn't uncommon in the industry and the sheer amount of skills which are broken is a pretty tell tale sign).

The developers are focussing on the parts that reviewers, the media and the casual player will encounter to help negate the turn around from the people who get bored, or who can't stand the greater bugs. The idea is no doubt that some of those that left due to bugs may get drawn back in later down the line.

People do have a right to be angry about that policy (again it's speculation that this is indeed what has happened). After all we all work hard for our money, and most of the people who decry the games development process are the one's who want to invest in the game, and see the unpolished gem turn into a diamond, and they deserve to be heard. If the game isn't bugged, or you are happy then that is honestly great, I don't want the game to fail. But the complaints aren't invalid nor selfish, they all stem from the ultimate goal of wanting to play and enjoy the game.

epoling · May 2014

I joined one of those "Multi-Game Guilds" where half the people (adults buying the game themselves) have already left. The one thing I found was that they were all preparing for the next game before they had got to level 10 here and were REALLY looking at the game after that one, though they were all set to play the one that game out even further. There are a lot of people who quit this game not because it is a bad game but because they can't stick with one thing for more than five seconds.

Lucardes · May 2014

They fixed 10 quest issues? Can you fix pvp and real issues where the majority experience it.

Guys look at the past patches that's all they been doing. Nothing is worthy here, game is not even evolving. $15 im paying for what? 1 month and no new content still... bowl ***. We are paying for the console developers while 1 or 2 guys do small quest fixes!!!

Spiritreaver_ESO · May 2014

kasain wrote: »

On a side note this is FFXIs update video that goes live tomorrow. They do seem to care for what there subscribers say, and after 12x years still Pay to play. Enjoy the Video

http://forum.square-enix.com/ffxi/threads/41764-Details-on-the-Upcoming-Version-Update!?p=506526#post506526

Plan to go back and read all the posts, but i had to reply to this one first.

As a decade long customer of SE before i called it quits last year, your post really made me laugh. But not in a bad way. Everything you say is totally correct....but let's add the bit you left out.

It has taken SE 12 years to get to where they are now in terms of how they deal with their customers.

Twelve years, which included the firing of an idiot(Tanaka), the complete bombing of FFXIV ver.1(which did nothing but suck down FFXI dev support and sub fees during its development for 6 of those 12 years), and the fact that the game was left languishing for almost half of that 12 yrs.

The Matsui era is delivering better everything, no question there, but you can't just hold up FFXI as an example of devs doing what needs to be done in a vacuum. Lots of years and F-ups got them to where they are now....and ZOS has only had a week and a month thus far.

And despite the flack ZOS is taking, they still have done some things better than old SE right from the start.

* Minimized downtime - ppl want to cry about how much downtime they are suffering, but i remember FFXI being unplayable for large swathes of time in its first month. Hell, its first few months. The game didn't get any real sense of stability until the CoP expansion hit that fall.

* Listening to feedback - ZOS may not be reacting as fast as we might want, but they are actively taking in good AND bad feedback. And as bad as i personally think these forums are(sorry guys, but they suck as is), they were at least available at launch. FFXI didn't get their forums 'til 7 or 8 years down the line.

* Willingness to make hard design choices straight off - Many will disagree with the way ZOS has started dealing with Vampire skill line issues, but they have showed they are more than willing to make changes they see as proper in the face of player incredulity. FFXI would have been so much better off for years if SE had had the balls to really handle the issues introduced by the Ninja job as they popped up and not let them fester for the better part of a decade.

Could go on, but don't want to belabor the point anymore than i already have.

EDIT: Spelling

Sandmanninja · May 2014

I just can't believe "you people". The whingers and complainers.
In one forum topic, I read "ZOS - fix these bugs!". And in this forum topic, I read "WHY DID YOU TAKE SURVORS DOWN?!? Y??"

1) Servers are big PCs. They need operating system patches (NOT from ZOS - from Microsoft) and a regular reboot is STANDARD OPERATING PROCEDURE.

2) While the game has been in beta for quite a while, it's only been live about a month. ONE MONTH. No plan survives contact with the enemy and beta <> live. They are on a twice-weekly maintenance plan which is great for a new game. Fix a change, don't make people wait a week for the changes - push them out and repeat.
The Developers are performing 3 tasks - fixing bugs, anti-bot coding, and FUTURE DEVELOPMENT.

isengrimb16_ESO · May 2014

Well, look at it this way, @Sandmanninja, WoW has done maintenance on Tuesday mornings for ... how many years? And its forums are STILL full of people who, every Tuesday, just have to come on and rage that "the servers r down y?"

UrQuan · May 2014

l-wilson-1986b16_ESO wrote: »

Ur-Quan wrote: »

l-wilson-1986b16_ESO wrote: »

Ur-Quan wrote: »

ralurielb16_ESO wrote: »

While his tone may have been rather forthright, he has a very valid point. As a Software Technical Lead/Product Owner myself I can get through an average of 15 bugs a day alone.

Um, no you can't. Not if you're doing any testing.

Ever heard of Murphy's Law? Probably not if you aren't a developer, you should google it, it states for every 10 defects you fix regardless of testing you are going to be guaranteed to introduce at least one more.

Actually, Murphy's Law is "anything that can go wrong will go wrong" and it's been around for a lot longer than there have been developers. Since the 19th century at least.

Also, I've been working in software development for years - I know that you'll always introduce new defects regardless of how much testing you do, but I also know that without proper test cycles (at a minimum 1 round each of unit testing, QA testing, and user acceptance testing - possibly more depending on what is found in those tests, and ideally at least one QA and user acceptance cycle should be done in an environment using a copy of the production database so you can see it with real data) you'll introduce 10X the defects... Of course, I'm talking about actual functionality fixes here, simple issues wouldn't necessarily need that.

Actually you're right, my apologies I meant mythical man month which makes reference to murphy's law.

Still after a big release, fixing 15 defects (which mostly in my experience will not actually all be defects so much as change this word, colour, order of content during UAT) in one day is not unreasonable which is what you were suggesting (doing it every day certainly but that's not what the poster said).

Well if that's the type of thing he was talking about when he said he could fix 15 "bugs" in a day... In my world those aren't considered bugs or defects, they're just minor configuration items. It doesn't take a developer to fix those, just anyone (not even necessarily IT staff) with admin rights. To me a bug or a defect is something functional that isn't functioning as intended (or is functioning as intended, but is causing something else to not function as intended).

NordJitsu · May 2014

We're still on the same version of the game, 1.0, with minor hot fixes.

1.1 includes massive updates, fixes, and balances.

Just wait till you guys see the new textures. Holy vibrant batman.

Arsenic_Touch · May 2014

Was very lackluster. Even if what they did for werewolves was a bug fix, they essentially put the silver bolt in the coffin for that one. I do not know how they could be happy with what they did with the werewolves, it's kind of insulting to players.

What amuses me is more memory leak fixes for the mac client yet they still exist for the pc client x.x

nez · May 2014

maintenance shmaitanance

Cogo · May 2014

I don't get most people on these forums. Damn if you, damn if you don't.
Big whinings over bugs, which is sorta ok, and FEATURES that never was even talked about, like an Auction house. ESO Even talked about this OVER A YEAR AGO that the economy would be player driven and not decided by a single point of "Bazaar" I think guild sales method and being a merchant yourself in public channels are awesome....it ADDS to the game. Not just, attack mob, kill, get exp, loot, put up on AH and go to sleep......

I am not talking about everyone in this thread, but people whine over bugs and the game isnt working etc. ESO Rush and fixes things
Then apperently, they fixed the "wrong" bugs?

For those players who actually been in several different MMORPGs KNOWS that patches will always come. We even expect them. The patch time usally is on a time as less interupting as possible. Like late night.

So how do you want it people, should ESO work on bugs/new features etc, or leave everything alone? From what I see from several here, you complain that ESO in fact is doing their jobb AND giving us patch notes. They even given us one of the biggest patch note I've seen in 1.1.

I just don't get it. ESO are doing their job and it will take time to iron out most things. But patching/fixing/something gone wrong, happens in ALL MMORPG.

Get used to it.

Also, after patch 1.1, which is awesome, I highly suspect a fast patch the same day or the day after, because someone found a way to exploit something

Do you want fixes or not?

Arreyanne · May 2014

As i posted earlier or in the other thread on 1.0.8 I'd be happy if they shut the damn game down for a week and fix all the crap or most of the crap.

Which in most cases was reported during beta. Which I still ask why wasn't the bugs fixed before release some they knew about for months, but no they didn't fix broken passives before launch they didnt fix the bank bug they didnt fix the bank dupe all of whcih I know were reported months before release.

And you expect people to just roll over and play dead.

OK BANG YOUR DEAD

felixgamingx1 · May 2014

Yea this patch is mufcabbage

TheGrandAlliance · May 2014

Pandarus wrote: »

Faith = Lost. Month and a half now I've been waiting for patch notes I actually care about. Instead "Oh yeah werewolf are useless and some people found a way to make them usefull? Screw that fix it now!!!" If your going to "fix" the werewolf eating bug then at least lower thier ultimate requirements first. Now I can be a werewolf like what, once a day if I'm lucky and the ultimate counter doesn't just randomly drop to 0. Jesus the fristration I'm having isn't even worth paying for an playing this game.

Ulti costs reset if no combat is engaged in after so many mintues.

The WW situation is a bug that wasnt intended: It is true the WW timer in the last 2 TES games is stupid (in Skyrim you can always mod it out) nonetheless patch 1.0.8 works as intended.

TheGrandAlliance · May 2014

Arsenic_Touch wrote: »

What amuses me is more memory leak fixes for the mac client yet they still exist for the pc client x.x

My self-build PC is too OP to notice the difference.

Cogo · May 2014

Moonraker wrote: »

butterfly442 wrote: »

Nothing. Thats the patch notes for 1.0.8.

Just how much longer will ZOS allow troll threads like this to be kept up?

Language in thread title, Totally lacking any point one liner which appears just to troll for response. OP flaming other community people in responses. How does this 'contribute' to a forum?

The patch is really necessary especially for Mac players and apart from other fixes which are always welcome, they are working on the server too.

Please ZOS, help get these forums back to something along the lines which you set out in the Community Rules which are there for good reason.

I agree completely! We are starting to build a community that works. But some people just seamed set on complaining about everything. I understand frustrating bugs, BUT, when people see bugfixes being done, and a HUUUGE list as patch 1.1.....

WHY are people still whining? I am active on these forums on a daily bases. I enjoy others opinions and sometimes wants to add my own, ask a question or join a discussion. This is actually good for the game AND Zenimax IS watching these threads.

I am starting to think more then 1 person just put negative things here....nah, I cant come up with a reason why.

Lately it has been better posts, better discussions, either they agree or not isnt important.

But for example. Vampires was a horrible mistake someone at Zenimax oversaw....it happens. It will happen again.

What I fail to grasp is how many people threaten or do quit when Zenimax fixes this problem. They cant kill 50 people at once anymore so they...quit?

I wonder what they where doing here in the first place, heh.

Also, in my view, if ESO wouldnt patch every week, Id be worried. Why? Because patching/fixing/adding content IS a big part what makes the game good.

Singular · May 2014

l-wilson-1986b16_ESO wrote: »

Ever heard of Murphy's Law? Probably not if you aren't a developer, you should google it, it states for every 10 defects you fix regardless of testing you are going to be guaranteed to introduce at least one more.

That's, uh, not Murphy's law...

Uhm, ah, Murphy's law is this:

If something can go wrong, it will go wrong.

Singular · May 2014

TheGrandAlliance wrote: »

Arsenic_Touch wrote: »

What amuses me is more memory leak fixes for the mac client yet they still exist for the pc client x.x

My self-build PC is too OP to notice the difference.

My PC is a pathetic, barely functional Dell and it's fine - no memory leaks.

Ah, just kidding, computer, you know I love you! don'tbreakdon'tbreakdon'tbreak

Pendrillion · May 2014

I start to think, that all those guys and gals with their OP VR 10 Builds after ONE month, kind of miss the point of the game. It saddens me greatly. I know it is a harsh competitive world out there.

Thats also why even these Forums acknowledge your contributions through Achievements. But seriously... I say let them be at it. I still enjoy roaming the Areas they built so intricately detailed. Even when I have left them story wise. This game is just beautiful. And I love to explore. Zenimax even rewards that...

So I am a happy Dunmer(Camper).

And I also think being a Vampire or Werewolf is greatly exaggerated.

I just hope enough from ADS folks leave in rage so one can have a little quiet and fun ingame. The behavior of entitlement some of the users put out really is puzzling. But it seems endemic for the consumerist society we live in.

But maybe I am just the odd misguided fanboy here...