BasP wrote: »

spaceghost8 wrote: »

danno8 wrote: »

spaceghost8 wrote: »

BasP wrote: »

spaceghost8 wrote: »

MashmalloMan wrote: »

spaceghost8 wrote: »

MashmalloMan wrote: »

spaceghost8 wrote: »

Most executes aren’t effective till around 25%… the templars execute starts being effect at around 40% this why templars drop almost everything at 40%

Beam is strong but I wouldn’t call it busted especially with the arcanists beam around but what do I know maybe I’m just being biased

Templar:

• Radiant Glory - 2950 Mag/1.8s (1639 Mag/s) = 3219/1.8s up to 18670/1.8s below 50% HP (1788/s - 10372/s). Up to 480 Mag and 17% damage done as healing returned each tick (3 over 1.8s). Undodgeable.
• Radiant Oppression - 2950 Mag/1.8s (1639 Mag/s) = 3219/1.8s up to 19314/1.8s below 50% HP (1788/s - 10730/s). Undodgeable.

Nightblade:

• Killer's Blade - 2066 Stam/s = 1161 up to 5805 dmg below 50% HP. Heals 2399 on kill, but melee.
• Impale - 2430 Mag/s = 1161 dmg or 4992 dmg if below 25% HP.

Sorcerer:

• Mages' Wrath - 2430 Mag/s = 871 dmg, +3195 below 20% HP. (Total 4066) The 3195 is aoe.
• Endless Fury - 2160 Mag/s = 871 dmg, +3195 below 20% HP. (Total 4066) The aoe is 696, but returns 4860 Mag on kill.

Dual Wield:

• Whirling Blades - 3510 Stam/s - 1799 up to 3598 dmg below 50% HP. AOE + Undodgeable.

2 Hander:

• Reverse Slice - 2430 Stam/s = 1199 up to 4796 dmg below 50% HP. Melee + splash AOE.
• Executioner - 2160 Stam/s = 1161 up to 5805 dmg below 50% HP. Melee.

TLDR: Beam deals almost double of the best closest executes, Killer's Blade and Executioner, but is 28m instead of 7m, undodgeable, and cheaper per second to maintain.

The only downside is you miss out on 1 light attack in the 1.8s window that a NB would get by spamming their execute twice, but the tooltip more than covers that part especially since light attack damage is now capped up to a point while abilities are not. This point also doesn't matter if you you're using Velothi in PVE since light attacks already deal nothing in favour of buffing everything else you use.

So yes, when I say it's carrying the class I mean it. It's about the only good thing Templar has going for it while all their other damage abilities (the ones I listed) suffer because of it.

Well sure it deals double the damage it’s a 1.8 sec channelled ability, by that time a nightblade or 2 hander could do 2 killers blade or executioner

It carries the class for sure, I am not saying other parts don’t need buffed

Let’s not get sidetracked tho, the post is about Aetheric Lancer

If you look at the bolded part, I adjusted for dmg/s instead of over 1.8s. In the TLDR I brought up what you said, but the point is kinda worthless considering Velothi in PVE, ranged vs melee, cheaper cost, and it being undodgable.

It's better in every way to whats considered the best execute in the game, unless you just hate channels, but thats Templar for ya

Radiant Oppression = 1788/s - 10730/s
Killer's Blade = 1161 - 5805

(54% - 84% stronger per second)

It's shockingly overpowered when you break it down, and it's clear ZOS is using it as a crutch to balance Templar instead of making anything else it uses decent. They've buffed their beams numerous times throughout the years.

Well yes

But to make a fair comparison u have to times killers blade and executioner by 2, coz beam is basically 2 seconds

Then suddenly beam doesn’t seem so OP does it?

Most executes say 40/50% but they are trash till like 25%

The damage Radiant Oppression deals is already divided by 1.8 in that example, however. So if you'd want to compare Radiant to two casts of Killer's Blade, Radiant would deal 3219 - 19314 damage over 1.8 seconds and it'd still be 39% - 66% stronger (if I'm not mistaken).

I don’t know how u came to those numbers but they don’t look correct

If killers blade is 5800 and beam is 10000

you have to say killers blade is 5800 x 2 so basically killers blade is 11600

Beam is a 2 second ability, this is y if u r going to make a fair comparison u have to times killers blade by 2

He converted the damage on Radiant from 18670/1.8s to 10372/s in order to directly compare Radiant per 1 second to Killers per 1 second. Multiplying Killers Blade *2 (should be *1.8 really) would be doing the same calculation twice.

If u say so

My point was/is killers blade is basically 11600 and beam is 10000… no need to complicate things

When looking at it like this beam isn’t OP, its a standard execute

Perhaps the tooltips will help clarify things:



Two casts of Killer's Blade only deal 2322 Disease Damage at base, and the scaling versus low health enemies is worse too. Beam is definitely the stronger execute skill.

So with ur metrics beam is 3000 with 500% and killers blade is 2000 with 400%… is this what u call busted or over powered?

Also a channeled ability is a negative in its self especially in pvp so giving it a little more oomph makes sense… if the numbers were the same there would be no reason to run beam over executioner or spin to win

It’s the best execute for sure, I wasn’t saying it’s not

Do you have any to say on Aetheric Lancer?

spaceghost8 wrote: »

Necrotech_Master wrote: »

the class sets are generally more focused on 1 specific skill line

if you want one thats more focused on beam and execute, then should use the other class set: wrathsun

that one builds stacks using dawns wrath abilities (beam), and when it goes off it adds +25% dmg and drops a nova

each beam adds 3 stacks, which is about 16 casts to get to 50 stacks (you can reduce this some by also using other dawns wrath abilities like reflective light/vampires bane

if your really about optimizing for execute though, you wouldnt use either but probably kvatch gladiator + deadly if you wanted to maximize your beam power in execute

I am talking about Aetheric Lancer… Why r u telling me about other sets?… Wrathsun is trash, Kvatch gladiator trash (opposite of what Aetheric Lancer does, good only on execute)

What class skill line is Pyrebrand, beacon of oblivion and spattering disjunction focused on?

Burning light is in the Aedric spear skill line, so that still counts?

How would you improve this set? Because it’s clearly lacking

make it proc off any damage on the final proc for ease of use since the condition is already tied to aedric spear passive

spaceghost8 wrote: »

As a Templar when a boss gets to 40% health you basically have to stop casting any other skills (except buffs) and just beam

Buffs such as Major Brutality/Sorcery from Biting Jabs?

BasP wrote: »

spaceghost8 wrote: »

BasP wrote: »

spaceghost8 wrote: »

danno8 wrote: »

spaceghost8 wrote: »

BasP wrote: »

spaceghost8 wrote: »

MashmalloMan wrote: »

spaceghost8 wrote: »

MashmalloMan wrote: »

spaceghost8 wrote: »

Most executes aren’t effective till around 25%… the templars execute starts being effect at around 40% this why templars drop almost everything at 40%

Beam is strong but I wouldn’t call it busted especially with the arcanists beam around but what do I know maybe I’m just being biased

Templar:

• Radiant Glory - 2950 Mag/1.8s (1639 Mag/s) = 3219/1.8s up to 18670/1.8s below 50% HP (1788/s - 10372/s). Up to 480 Mag and 17% damage done as healing returned each tick (3 over 1.8s). Undodgeable.
• Radiant Oppression - 2950 Mag/1.8s (1639 Mag/s) = 3219/1.8s up to 19314/1.8s below 50% HP (1788/s - 10730/s). Undodgeable.

Nightblade:

• Killer's Blade - 2066 Stam/s = 1161 up to 5805 dmg below 50% HP. Heals 2399 on kill, but melee.
• Impale - 2430 Mag/s = 1161 dmg or 4992 dmg if below 25% HP.

Sorcerer:

• Mages' Wrath - 2430 Mag/s = 871 dmg, +3195 below 20% HP. (Total 4066) The 3195 is aoe.
• Endless Fury - 2160 Mag/s = 871 dmg, +3195 below 20% HP. (Total 4066) The aoe is 696, but returns 4860 Mag on kill.

Dual Wield:

• Whirling Blades - 3510 Stam/s - 1799 up to 3598 dmg below 50% HP. AOE + Undodgeable.

2 Hander:

• Reverse Slice - 2430 Stam/s = 1199 up to 4796 dmg below 50% HP. Melee + splash AOE.
• Executioner - 2160 Stam/s = 1161 up to 5805 dmg below 50% HP. Melee.

TLDR: Beam deals almost double of the best closest executes, Killer's Blade and Executioner, but is 28m instead of 7m, undodgeable, and cheaper per second to maintain.

The only downside is you miss out on 1 light attack in the 1.8s window that a NB would get by spamming their execute twice, but the tooltip more than covers that part especially since light attack damage is now capped up to a point while abilities are not. This point also doesn't matter if you you're using Velothi in PVE since light attacks already deal nothing in favour of buffing everything else you use.

So yes, when I say it's carrying the class I mean it. It's about the only good thing Templar has going for it while all their other damage abilities (the ones I listed) suffer because of it.

Well sure it deals double the damage it’s a 1.8 sec channelled ability, by that time a nightblade or 2 hander could do 2 killers blade or executioner

It carries the class for sure, I am not saying other parts don’t need buffed

Let’s not get sidetracked tho, the post is about Aetheric Lancer

If you look at the bolded part, I adjusted for dmg/s instead of over 1.8s. In the TLDR I brought up what you said, but the point is kinda worthless considering Velothi in PVE, ranged vs melee, cheaper cost, and it being undodgable.

It's better in every way to whats considered the best execute in the game, unless you just hate channels, but thats Templar for ya

Radiant Oppression = 1788/s - 10730/s
Killer's Blade = 1161 - 5805

(54% - 84% stronger per second)

It's shockingly overpowered when you break it down, and it's clear ZOS is using it as a crutch to balance Templar instead of making anything else it uses decent. They've buffed their beams numerous times throughout the years.

Well yes

But to make a fair comparison u have to times killers blade and executioner by 2, coz beam is basically 2 seconds

Then suddenly beam doesn’t seem so OP does it?

Most executes say 40/50% but they are trash till like 25%

The damage Radiant Oppression deals is already divided by 1.8 in that example, however. So if you'd want to compare Radiant to two casts of Killer's Blade, Radiant would deal 3219 - 19314 damage over 1.8 seconds and it'd still be 39% - 66% stronger (if I'm not mistaken).

I don’t know how u came to those numbers but they don’t look correct

If killers blade is 5800 and beam is 10000

you have to say killers blade is 5800 x 2 so basically killers blade is 11600

Beam is a 2 second ability, this is y if u r going to make a fair comparison u have to times killers blade by 2

He converted the damage on Radiant from 18670/1.8s to 10372/s in order to directly compare Radiant per 1 second to Killers per 1 second. Multiplying Killers Blade *2 (should be *1.8 really) would be doing the same calculation twice.

If u say so

My point was/is killers blade is basically 11600 and beam is 10000… no need to complicate things

When looking at it like this beam isn’t OP, its a standard execute

Perhaps the tooltips will help clarify things:



Two casts of Killer's Blade only deal 2322 Disease Damage at base, and the scaling versus low health enemies is worse too. Beam is definitely the stronger execute skill.

So with ur metrics beam is 3000 with 500% and killers blade is 2000 with 400%… is this what u call busted or over powered?

Also a channeled ability is a negative in its self especially in pvp so giving it a little more oomph makes sense… if the numbers were the same there would be no reason to run beam over executioner or spin to win

It’s the best execute for sure, I wasn’t saying it’s not

Do you have any to say on Aetheric Lancer?

I tried Aetheric Lancer on the PTS when it was being tested and didn't think it was worth farming, sadly. If I remember correctly my DPS with that set was pretty comparable to my DPS with Deadly Strike, and I wasn't fond of having to move into the circle to proc Lancer all the time.

If you haven't done so already, you could try to keep up the buff during the execute phase with Everlasting Sweep however. In content with more than one target, I believe the uptime could be pretty decent.

It would be nice if the set was changed so that proccing Aetheric Lancer during the execute phase with skills you'd normally use in that scenario was easier though.

Mhh having sweep would help I will try it out tho I would rather have dawnbreaker buff

Sweep is cheap but it does delay ur process time as u need to wait for ur ult, good on pve but deffo not int pvo

Gabriel_H wrote: »

spaceghost8 wrote: »

As a Templar when a boss gets to 40% health you basically have to stop casting any other skills (except buffs) and just beam

Buffs such as Major Brutality/Sorcery from Biting Jabs?

Bro if u read ur own quote u will see I said expect buffs… As Bas said that’s the way u Templar

spaceghost8 wrote: »

Necrotech_Master wrote: »

the class sets are generally more focused on 1 specific skill line

if you want one thats more focused on beam and execute, then should use the other class set: wrathsun

that one builds stacks using dawns wrath abilities (beam), and when it goes off it adds +25% dmg and drops a nova

each beam adds 3 stacks, which is about 16 casts to get to 50 stacks (you can reduce this some by also using other dawns wrath abilities like reflective light/vampires bane

if your really about optimizing for execute though, you wouldnt use either but probably kvatch gladiator + deadly if you wanted to maximize your beam power in execute

I am talking about Aetheric Lancer… Why r u telling me about other sets?… Wrathsun is trash, Kvatch gladiator trash (opposite of what Aetheric Lancer does, good only on execute)

What class skill line is Pyrebrand, beacon of oblivion and spattering disjunction focused on?

Burning light is in the Aedric spear skill line, so that still counts?

How would you improve this set? Because it’s clearly lacking

For Beacon, it is a no pet PvE set, pretty useless in Pvp and pet build which strongest sorc build. Pyrebrand is focused around playing with LA and HA which is nice but nobody use this mini game because there far better sets like relequen for example, needless to say that nobody also use it for PvP outside from niche goofy builds. Now for spattering you can make a case for it if you play solo but chances if you play in group that it will just be wated since your group will apply most ststus effect leaving you o to recast same status that if it was not on cooldown.

Now I understand that you want lancer to be all round set, but this will make it op and probably cause it to get nerf later. Lancer set already boost both your single and AOE spammables as will as main ulti which is more than enough to make it good and you can use this set in both PvE and PvP without restrictions. If you want to boost othertimes of dmg, use other sets like people suggested and I believe wrathsun is great for this part albiet that they should probably decrease the stacking requirment little bit.

Wrathsun is horrible. Most Dawn’s Wrath skills all have a 2 second timer between ticks, including Vampires Bane and Reflective Light, and most of them do not generate multiple ticks based on targets hit, meaning, if your Solar Barrage hits multiple targets, you will get only one stack.

Unless of course this has changed somewhere, but I haven’t used the set since the first patch it came out, and immediately put it away once I realized how terrible and misleading it is.

I also noticed several times where if the final stack procs on a target that died, you don't get a nova. So you lose out on some damage from the set as well. Wrathsun needs some work/fixing.