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Issue I thought of over the weekend.
scruffycavetroll
✭✭✭
Growth.
no I don't have one, but i think the game might struggling to do it in the future, and games can't take a little blue pill.
Here is why, oh, and before I go on, this isn't a "hating on the game thread" but a general observation.
I know this series and the fans are very tied to the lore of the game. the history of this world is apparently long and somewhat rich. I think this inofitself is one of the games greatest strengths and biggest weaknesses.
A week ago I made a post suggesting the addition of new races in DLC like dweomer / dwarves. People pointed out that the race is long extinct,. This left me thinking...
Is this game is so tied to history and lore that they will never compromise anything?
How can the game grow if the world's lore is going to be the limiting factor?
How can things be added if it was never mentioned anywhere in the previous titles (titles mind you, with the possible exception of Skyrim that were made long before an MMO Elder Scrolls game was even thought of)?
Will the 'vanilla' races be the only races to ever grace the game?
WoW had lore as well, yet the release of Kung Fu panda in some ways threw that out the window. Now, I'm in NO WAYS SUGGESTING that ESO do something as drastic as that. BUT, this is an MMO, MMO's are one of the few genres out there that is living, breathing, changing and constantly evolving i feel. This is a game that takes place long before Skyrim, and the other titles.
Is it possible that in this 'iteration' of the game that things might happen that go against / changes what people know, due to this being an MMO?
I'm not saying the game will die, i'm not saying the lore will kill it...I'm asking if:
The lore will severely hamper DLC possibilities in terms of what could be added like races?
no I don't have one, but i think the game might struggling to do it in the future, and games can't take a little blue pill.
Here is why, oh, and before I go on, this isn't a "hating on the game thread" but a general observation.
I know this series and the fans are very tied to the lore of the game. the history of this world is apparently long and somewhat rich. I think this inofitself is one of the games greatest strengths and biggest weaknesses.
A week ago I made a post suggesting the addition of new races in DLC like dweomer / dwarves. People pointed out that the race is long extinct,. This left me thinking...
Is this game is so tied to history and lore that they will never compromise anything?
How can the game grow if the world's lore is going to be the limiting factor?
How can things be added if it was never mentioned anywhere in the previous titles (titles mind you, with the possible exception of Skyrim that were made long before an MMO Elder Scrolls game was even thought of)?
Will the 'vanilla' races be the only races to ever grace the game?
WoW had lore as well, yet the release of Kung Fu panda in some ways threw that out the window. Now, I'm in NO WAYS SUGGESTING that ESO do something as drastic as that. BUT, this is an MMO, MMO's are one of the few genres out there that is living, breathing, changing and constantly evolving i feel. This is a game that takes place long before Skyrim, and the other titles.
Is it possible that in this 'iteration' of the game that things might happen that go against / changes what people know, due to this being an MMO?
I'm not saying the game will die, i'm not saying the lore will kill it...I'm asking if:
The lore will severely hamper DLC possibilities in terms of what could be added like races?
1
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nerevarine1138✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭If additional races are all you look for in an expansion, then I'm betting you're going to feel very hampered by the lore.
However, since the Elder Scrolls series has been going strong for over 20 years with these same 10 races, I'd say that most players will be fine.----
Murray?4 -
KerinKor✭✭✭✭✭
✭
New races is the exception not the rule. The MMOs I play today that have been around more than a year:scruffycavetroll wrote: »Will the 'vanilla' races be the only races to ever grace the game?
FFXI: started in 2002 with 5 races, still only has 5 races.
LOTRO: started with 4 races, still the same today.
Rift: started with 6 races, still the same today.
GW2: started with 4 races, still the same today.
WOW: okay, the big exception to the rule.
Given ESO has NINE standard races (ignoring the pay-to-play Imperial) then I see no reason why we need more .. since every race requires a massive investment in graphic artist time on gear, animation, etc. etc.
Also, ZOS are indeed hamstrung by what they can do with the lore since this game is set a very long time before the last TES so there'd be uproar if they added anything substantial that wasn't hinted at in TES: one reason Nercomancer will never appear as a class, in the time when ESO is set there are very few of them and clearly most in the current game time would be working for Molag Bal!Edited by KerinKor on May 12, 2014 1:34PM1 -
vyndral13preub18_ESO✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭While i would like new races, i am really excited about the way they have things set up right now. They can and whole new skill lines and skills and even a new tier of skill morphs and not have to change anything. Heck the way it is set up you wouldn't even have to raise the level cap if you didn't want. (Im assuming the would)
They could also easily add another 'disease' guild like werewolves and vamps and say they faded from lore after they were wiped out.
Also keep in mind that there are new Elder Scroll games being made. All it takes is adding the lost island of Kung-fu Pandas and bam its lore now!0 -
rotiferuk✭✭✭Dwemer are NOT dwarves. This has already been explained in a response to your previous post. There are 10 playable races, how many more do you want? .Edited by rotiferuk on May 12, 2014 1:50PMEU Server.3 -
Artemiisia✭✭✭✭✭
✭as mention maybe in an expansion.
the thing about new races, requires lots of new skill lines, and then over all adjustment of all races to balance things out, that wont just happen over night, and for sure not happen just after one month of release.
there will rarely come new races to the game, been playing Age of Conan, and there its impossible to make new races, it will destroy every dungeons/raids. My reason behind this is that in raids for normal requires two set of every race both to balance things out, and to make sure loots are 50% chance for that race if it drops.
I think down the road, long down the road, year or two maybe, with a new expansion pack, we might see a whole new set of skills/passives/ultimatives for whatever veteran tier content they have reaches at that point.
With new quest zones, where the new skills will do better then the old onces.0 -
Orizuru✭✭✭As much as people don't like to admit it, lore can be changed.
DC Comics did it by creating a multiverse. Other franchises did it by standing their ground and just telling the raging fans, "tough, it's our story, we will do what we want".
At the end of the day, the lore is about as resilient as trying to hold water in your fist.2 -
nerevarine1138✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭NaciremaDiputs wrote: »As much as people don't like to admit it, lore can be changed.
DC Comics did it by creating a multiverse. Other franchises did it by standing their ground and just telling the raging fans, "tough, it's our story, we will do what we want".
At the end of the day, the lore is about as resilient as trying to hold water in your fist.
Yes, lore can be changed, but the ESO team has been pretty reverent with the lore so far. I don't see that changing in a game where most fans of the original series are here because of the unique lore/universe.----
Murray?1 -
mutharex✭✭✭✭✭NaciremaDiputs wrote: »As much as people don't like to admit it, lore can be changed.
DC Comics did it by creating a multiverse. Other franchises did it by standing their ground and just telling the raging fans, "tough, it's our story, we will do what we want".
At the end of the day, the lore is about as resilient as trying to hold water in your fist.
Yes but TESO being in the past respect to the SRPGs, complicates things0 -
scruffycavetroll✭✭✭NaciremaDiputs wrote: »As much as people don't like to admit it, lore can be changed.
DC Comics did it by creating a multiverse. Other franchises did it by standing their ground and just telling the raging fans, "tough, it's our story, we will do what we want".
At the end of the day, the lore is about as resilient as trying to hold water in your fist.
Yes but TESO being in the past respect to the SRPGs, complicates things
and that's my point.
playable races apart, the lore in this game is so strong that IF in the unlikely event they decide to pull a WoW and add something 'out of character' the fans will get so incensed that who knows what they'll do. It's as if throwing a monkey wrench into a fantasy world is putting that same wrench into their actual life.
the lore is also so strong that it's very difficult to add things...well, not really, but it'll be interesting to see what they can / will do eventually.0 -
nerevarine1138✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭scruffycavetroll wrote: »NaciremaDiputs wrote: »As much as people don't like to admit it, lore can be changed.
DC Comics did it by creating a multiverse. Other franchises did it by standing their ground and just telling the raging fans, "tough, it's our story, we will do what we want".
At the end of the day, the lore is about as resilient as trying to hold water in your fist.
Yes but TESO being in the past respect to the SRPGs, complicates things
and that's my point.
playable races apart, the lore in this game is so strong that IF in the unlikely event they decide to pull a WoW and add something 'out of character' the fans will get so incensed that who knows what they'll do. It's as if throwing a monkey wrench into a fantasy world is putting that same wrench into their actual life.
the lore is also so strong that it's very difficult to add things...well, not really, but it'll be interesting to see what they can / will do eventually.
That lore hasn't made it difficult for them to add/subtract things in all 5 single-player games. But again, if you're waiting for flying pandas, don't hold your breath.----
Murray?1 -
Xithian✭✭✭New things to keep the game interesting do not have to come in the form of new races or classes. Those things, in most cases, require starting a new character (or paying to change an existing one). This gets you to go through the same content you've already done with a new character while feeling as if anything but your appearance/skills has changed. That said, I also don't see the need to add any more races to ESO. The racial lineup has been set for a very long time. New classes are always fun, but I'm not even going to think about it until they get all of the existing class skills working correctly. Hopefully ZoS feels the same on that.
Actual new content available to all existing characters is much more preferable in my opinion. Unfortunately when the game is built around character levels, this often translates directly into endgame advancement that further boils down to gear progression. Since Elder Scrolls games make such heavy use of lore and random "fun" quests, I'm hoping that they at least partially avoid that.
To directly answer your question, no. I don't see any reason that having solid lore should hamper the game.0 -
Crumpy✭✭✭✭Dwemer are NOT dwarves. This has already been explained in a response to your previous post. There are 10 playable races, how many more do you want? .
I thought they were?![:\](https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/resources/emoji/confused.png ":\")
The lore was made up in the first place, some more can always be made up (if it fits right ofc).Edited by Crumpy on May 12, 2014 2:34PMI lyke not this quill.1 -
nerevarine1138✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭
Dwemer are referred to as "dwarves" due to a naming mix-up with some historian, but what that poster is referring to is that Dwemer are not Tolkien-esque dwarves. They were not short, drunk Scotsmen (I know, the "drunk" was redundant). They were of average height, and they most closely resemble the Babylonians of our world. If Babylonians had pointy ears and built mechanical terrors.----
Murray?0 -
Ashigaru✭✭✭✭nerevarine1138 wrote: »
Dwemer are referred to as "dwarves" due to a naming mix-up with some historian, but what that poster is referring to is that Dwemer are not Tolkien-esque dwarves. They were not short, drunk Scotsmen (I know, the "drunk" was redundant). They were of average height, and they most closely resemble the Babylonians of our world. If Babylonians had pointy ears and built mechanical terrors.
Babylonians? What? Lol0 -
nerevarine1138✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭nerevarine1138 wrote: »
Dwemer are referred to as "dwarves" due to a naming mix-up with some historian, but what that poster is referring to is that Dwemer are not Tolkien-esque dwarves. They were not short, drunk Scotsmen (I know, the "drunk" was redundant). They were of average height, and they most closely resemble the Babylonians of our world. If Babylonians had pointy ears and built mechanical terrors.
Babylonians? What? Lol
Dwemer:
Babylonian (the two in the center):
----
Murray?0 -
scruffycavetroll wrote: »GW2: started with 4 races, still the same today.
Human, Norn, Charr, Sylvari, Asura.
*
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2AoxCkySv34 Edited by tjvannevel_ESO on May 12, 2014 3:25PM1 -
Crumpy✭✭✭✭They dug n built stuff underground just like dwarves... I met the last ever dwemer in morrowind (the game) and, though his legs were rather odd, his top half looked dwarvish if i recall correctly...???Edited by Crumpy on May 12, 2014 3:29PMI lyke not this quill.0
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frwinters_ESO✭✭✭✭Lore is very important to this game Bethesda made this clear when allowing Zenimax to make the game. You will never see additional races. I would bet money on that. New classes and weapons? That is where you will see your growth. Skyrim was the first Elder Scroll game where you didn't actually have a class or the ability to create a custom class. Your class determined your primary skills and your level was determined by how well you leveled your primary skills. Nightblade, Sorceror and i even believe Templar were classic class choices in ESO games. I do not remember there being a dragon knight. they could add Pilgrim, Bard, Barbarian, etc etc. Still a lot of room to grow.0 -
They dug n built stuff underground just like dwarves... I met the last ever dwemer in morrowind (the game) and, though his legs were rather odd, his top half looked dwarvish if i recall correctly...???
He was suffering from Corprus at the time which tends to make you bloat, Also he had lost his legs and had built a device to carry him around. He was the last remaining dwemer because when the rest of them buggered off to create the skin of the universe ,or realized they were just characters in a video game and were unmade, or were struck from the face of the world, or screwed off to Sanguines plane to snort hookers and do coke , he was repairing the pipes in a pocket plane or something weird.0 -
Iago✭✭✭✭✭The last known Dwemer was alive in TESIII Morrowind, meaning he is still alive in the time of ESO. If he has survived then thre is a great possibility that there are other Dwemer out and about in the world. In the Dawngaurd expanision of Skyrim You meet a snowelf or Ayleid and they were thought to be extinct even as far back as Morrowind.That which we obtain to cheap we esteem to lightly, it is dearness only that gives everything its value.
-Thomas Pain0 -
Crumpy✭✭✭✭So... Dwemer are just like Dwarfs/Dwarves in many respects except they weren't short??
Is that right?I lyke not this quill.0 -
isengrimb16_ESO✭✭✭✭✭Pandaria was forgotten about/not known about by vanilla WoW races - that much is pretty obvious. The history of the moonwell explosion obviously comes from the POV of the elves, who were exclusive to the north/north-western parts of the former supercontinent, and probably had no knowledge of people far to the south, due to their disdain of their own near neighbours, the Tauren and Furbolgs. In fact, one book mentioned that they'd never even seen/heard of humans before Rhonin (or whoever it was) timetravelled back with the bronze dragon with a red dragon or some nonsense.
In ESO, other continents are known about, and written about, and humans still acknowledge that they came from somewhere else, and are not native to Tamriel.
However, we have never, apparently, been SHOWN these places, or the people who live there (beyond presumed variants of humans and elves). There may be other people of unknown genotype/phenotype we simply haven't heard about, or were only mentioned in passing.
Edited by isengrimb16_ESO on May 12, 2014 3:55PM0 -
scruffycavetroll✭✭✭So... Dwemer are just like Dwarfs/Dwarves in many respects except they weren't short??
Is that right?
pretty much, and the term Dwarf from what i recall people saying is just how humans mispronounced the word or something.
it seems like the only thing that can be added are:
New locales
skill lines
the races aren't that big of a deal...it really isn't, i just use that as an example since it's one of the first things people would ask for in new content...races area's skills etc...but that's what I mean, the lore is really limiting the devs as far as what they could do unless they decide to make drastic changes.Edited by scruffycavetroll on May 12, 2014 3:56PM0 -
Syrrisdevlin✭✭there are so many races that are there but not playable at this time like goblins and honestly im probably gonna get flamed for saying this but I wouldn't mind them making goblins or some thing a playable race and making the like the imperials maybe not locking them behind a paywall but we know they will ....but make like imperials in that they can be in any faction(Also just like to say to those who still think the pre order bonus that let you make any race in any faction didn't fit with the lore/setting of this game maybe you should go back replay the game and actually read the stuff they did a great job of backing up their choice to let preorders do that you come across many groups of people from the other factions who are escaping their faction for one reason or another)Edited by Syrrisdevlin on May 12, 2014 4:00PM0 -
Xithian✭✭✭So... Dwemer are just like Dwarfs/Dwarves in many respects except they weren't short??
Is that right?
No. Dwemer are like traditional fantasy setting Dwarves ONLY in the fact that they build cool crap underground. That's it. Other than that the Nords of ESO more closely resemble traditional Dwarves. The fight, drink, distrust magic, and have an automatic dislike of anyone that's not their race.
Dwemer were a very intelligent race known mostly by the advanced technology they left behind.
Edited by Xithian on May 12, 2014 3:58PM0 -
ron.spark79_ESO wrote: »The last known Dwemer was alive in TESIII Morrowind, meaning he is still alive in the time of ESO. If he has survived then thre is a great possibility that there are other Dwemer out and about in the world. In the Dawngaurd expanision of Skyrim You meet a snowelf or Ayleid and they were thought to be extinct even as far back as Morrowind.
Actually Barnum says that he went looking for others of his race in other planes, and that he would know if any still existed on nirn ( they had some kind of weird psychic mind link thing.) So no dwemer are pretty much off the table, of course that is meant to be. Dwemer are like the ayelids meant to be an extinct forebearer style race that leaves cool stuff for you to play with0 -
Iago✭✭✭✭✭luckyjoemcb14_ESO wrote: »ron.spark79_ESO wrote: »The last known Dwemer was alive in TESIII Morrowind, meaning he is still alive in the time of ESO. If he has survived then thre is a great possibility that there are other Dwemer out and about in the world. In the Dawngaurd expanision of Skyrim You meet a snowelf or Ayleid and they were thought to be extinct even as far back as Morrowind.
Actually Barnum says that he went looking for others of his race in other planes, and that he would know if any still existed on nirn ( they had some kind of weird psychic mind link thing.) So no dwemer are pretty much off the table, of course that is meant to be. Dwemer are like the ayelids meant to be an extinct forebearer style race that leaves cool stuff for you to play with
I forgot about that but the Ayleids are still alive and kicking in Skyrims time, well at least one anyway and he seemed sure others may still be out there
That which we obtain to cheap we esteem to lightly, it is dearness only that gives everything its value.
-Thomas Pain0 -
Ayelids are not snow elves. the guy in dawn guard is a snow elf, or Falmer just not a twisted up one.
That said there is one Ayleid alive at this time. But as far as I know he is the only one.Edited by luckyjoemcb14_ESO on May 12, 2014 4:13PM0 -
Tripp3r✭✭✭if you take lore out of a game what do you have?
space pandas in Camelot with george bush.1 -
Iago✭✭✭✭✭luckyjoemcb14_ESO wrote: »Ayelids are not snow elves. the guy in dawn guard is a snow elf, or Falmer just not a twisted up one.
That said there is one Ayleid alive at this time. But as far as I know he is the only one.
I stand Corected I just read the Last king of the Ayrlids and they were the heartland high elves not snowelves. I was a bit mixed up because I was thining of the Scolar in the Blood moon expansion for morrowind that had you go look for the snowelf BarrowThat which we obtain to cheap we esteem to lightly, it is dearness only that gives everything its value.
-Thomas Pain0