City Guards are Useless and Need an Overhaul.

Aggrovious · September 30

Yes they are. They do nothing for the game, but add more frustration to the player. Overhaul is needed for the bounty system or complete removal of guards.

Ingenon wrote: »

katanagirl1 wrote: »

Please stop requesting major changes to a 10 year old game when it is not an issue. Pay the fine or run away and wait out the bounty.

^ This

You want to play with your friends in the new event. You try to leave the city, but a guard sees you have a bounty above the peace range. They attack you and pull you out of leaving the city even though you hit E. If I was a werewolf, I must run away even though I can devour said guard if it wasn't immortal.

I do not understand how you can say to never request changes on a 10 year old game when you are on the forums.

TaSheen · September 30

No they aren't. They maintain order for the cities. (screw necromancers)

That's how the game works, and there's no reason to change something that's tied into the Justice System. Probably you should clear your bounty before leaving with friends?

Ingenon · September 30

No they aren't. They maintain order for the cities. (screw necromancers)

TaSheen wrote: »

That's how the game works, and there's no reason to change something that's tied into the Justice System. Probably you should clear your bounty before leaving with friends?

^ This

I have lots of counterfeit pardon edicts. Use one to get rid of the heat, and even if you still some bounty left after getting rid of the heat, then the guard won't stop you. Maybe it will take more than one to get rid of the heat if you have a huge bounty, but you get the idea.

Aggrovious · September 30

Yes they are. They do nothing for the game, but add more frustration to the player. Overhaul is needed for the bounty system or complete removal of guards.

TaSheen wrote: »

That's how the game works, and there's no reason to change something that's tied into the Justice System. Probably you should clear your bounty before leaving with friends?

I just provided several reasons. They just aren't good enough it seems.

Avoiding immune guards by sneaking, running, or paying a bounty isn't good enough. The justice system needs to be adjusted or the guards need to not be immune.

katanagirl1 · September 30

Other. I have a better answer.

Supposedly, from something that I read here somewhere on the forums, when the game started there wasn’t any justice system. It apparently caused enough chaos that it was decided to add that functionality to the game. So here we are now.

TaSheen · September 30

No they aren't. They maintain order for the cities. (screw necromancers)

Aggrovious wrote: »

TaSheen wrote: »

That's how the game works, and there's no reason to change something that's tied into the Justice System. Probably you should clear your bounty before leaving with friends?

I just provided several reasons. They just aren't good enough it seems.

Avoiding immune guards by sneaking, running, or paying a bounty isn't good enough. The justice system needs to be adjusted or the guards need to not be immune.

You're entitled to feel that way. The rest of us are entitled to disagree. I feel as if It's unlikely to change. If it WERE going to change, it would probably be a year or more down the road. So in the meantime, you should when showing heat use counterfeit pardon edicts or gold, or avoid trying to pass guards on your way out of town.

Kisakee · September 30

No they aren't. They maintain order for the cities. (screw necromancers)

ComboBreaker88 wrote: »

Make it so players can kill other player to collect the bounty.

Also allow a bounty board and let players put bounties on other players for a fee. (This could also be a gold sink.)

Catch me if you caaaaan...

Kisakee · September 30

No they aren't. They maintain order for the cities. (screw necromancers)

Also i just jumped the bandwagon because why not, i'd actually love to see a new Justice system with exciting features and even more ways to collect bounties.

kargen27 · September 30

Aggrovious wrote: »

Heren wrote: »

Aggrovious wrote: »

They inconvenience the player. Do you like that? In other Elder Scrolls games, you can kill them...

In other elder scrolls, you can do a lot of thing that you can't do in ESO. I wouldn't take that as a valid argument.

As for they inconveniencing the player... even if killable, they would still do, right ? What kind of argument is that ?

Or do you mean them being unkillable inconvenience the player ? If so I disagree - that inconvenience me as much as equipement losing durability inconvenience me, as much as having a limited pool of stamina and magicka inconvenience, as much as being myself killable inconvenience me. It's just a part of the game mechanics that has to be taken into account.

Sorry but none of you arguments feel very compelling.

Prime example. My friend had bad lag. Who is about to leave the city and the guard pull him away from the door even though he interacted with the gate. All because he accidentally picked up a stolen item next to an NPC he had to talk to, but the hit box is bad

That isn't a guard problem but a hit box problem. That is something that could/should be fixed.

Necrotech_Master · September 30

Other. I have a better answer.

ArchMikem wrote: »

If they make Guards killable, then people will intentionally attack them. If that's ever the case I'd want them to have Vet Dungeon Boss health bars and if you aggro one, then EVERY Guard around should bear down on you.

guards right now only have ~10 mil hp, they would die instantly if a city worth of players was able to attack them

you would have to give them like vet trial HM levels of health (vet HM falgravn has about 300 mil hp) and even then they would still probably be able to get killed if they werent flat out invulnerable like they are now

i dont think that you should get bounties for using skills, thats just really dumb (necromancer, vamp, WW are the only ones punished for this), but i also dont think that guards should be killable either

Franchise408 · September 30

Necrotech_Master wrote: »

ArchMikem wrote: »

If they make Guards killable, then people will intentionally attack them. If that's ever the case I'd want them to have Vet Dungeon Boss health bars and if you aggro one, then EVERY Guard around should bear down on you.

guards right now only have ~10 mil hp, they would die instantly if a city worth of players was able to attack them

you would have to give them like vet trial HM levels of health (vet HM falgravn has about 300 mil hp) and even then they would still probably be able to get killed if they werent flat out invulnerable like they are now

i dont think that you should get bounties for using skills, thats just really dumb (necromancer, vamp, WW are the only ones punished for this), but i also dont think that guards should be killable either

May I ask why?

How is the game harmed by being able to kill the guards?

I actually think it's more problematic that they can attack and kill you but you can't defend yourself.

I agree with making guards very hard, but I don't see any purpose to having them be immune.

Elder Scrolls is a series that's supposed to be about player choice and autonomy. Immune city guards are one of many examples of ESO being a game about the things you *can't* do rather than what you can.

kargen27 · September 30

Necrotech_Master wrote: »

ArchMikem wrote: »

If they make Guards killable, then people will intentionally attack them. If that's ever the case I'd want them to have Vet Dungeon Boss health bars and if you aggro one, then EVERY Guard around should bear down on you.

guards right now only have ~10 mil hp, they would die instantly if a city worth of players was able to attack them

you would have to give them like vet trial HM levels of health (vet HM falgravn has about 300 mil hp) and even then they would still probably be able to get killed if they werent flat out invulnerable like they are now

i dont think that you should get bounties for using skills, thats just really dumb (necromancer, vamp, WW are the only ones punished for this), but i also dont think that guards should be killable either

This gave me an idea. Probably the worst idea I've ever had. Well at least for the game, I've had some really bad ones out in the real world.
If players attack a guard other players can join with the guard and fight against the evil doers. Those helping the guards then become vulnerable to attack so pretty much everybody involved is dead. If you die you just have to lay there until the fight is over or some other player wastes a soul gem on you.

AvalonRanger · September 30

No they aren't. They maintain order for the cities. (screw necromancers)

Bounty is extremely cheap. I don't care.

AvalonRanger · September 30

No they aren't. They maintain order for the cities. (screw necromancers)

Ember: Why you paid bounty for the guard? It's a wasting!
(And, she angry against me.)

Me: I'll bring you to your playground. You like "outlaw refugee" don't you?

Ember: \(^o^)/

See? no problem. Just control your kitty babe.

amig186 · October 1

No they aren't. They maintain order for the cities. (screw necromancers)

kargen27 wrote: »

Necrotech_Master wrote: »

ArchMikem wrote: »

If they make Guards killable, then people will intentionally attack them. If that's ever the case I'd want them to have Vet Dungeon Boss health bars and if you aggro one, then EVERY Guard around should bear down on you.

guards right now only have ~10 mil hp, they would die instantly if a city worth of players was able to attack them

you would have to give them like vet trial HM levels of health (vet HM falgravn has about 300 mil hp) and even then they would still probably be able to get killed if they werent flat out invulnerable like they are now

i dont think that you should get bounties for using skills, thats just really dumb (necromancer, vamp, WW are the only ones punished for this), but i also dont think that guards should be killable either

This gave me an idea. Probably the worst idea I've ever had. Well at least for the game, I've had some really bad ones out in the real world.
If players attack a guard other players can join with the guard and fight against the evil doers. Those helping the guards then become vulnerable to attack so pretty much everybody involved is dead. If you die you just have to lay there until the fight is over or some other player wastes a soul gem on you.

You know, that would be really cool, if not for how easy it is to unwillingly become an accessory to a crime. Heal a player who is running from the law? You're kill on sight. Get hit by an aoe attack from a citizen who was attacked by another player? Kill on sight. I imagine there are more such cases. If Zos made sure that the guards only aggro onto those who actually committed the crime then this'd be a neat addition.

Necrotech_Master · October 1

Other. I have a better answer.

Franchise408 wrote: »

Necrotech_Master wrote: »

ArchMikem wrote: »

If they make Guards killable, then people will intentionally attack them. If that's ever the case I'd want them to have Vet Dungeon Boss health bars and if you aggro one, then EVERY Guard around should bear down on you.

guards right now only have ~10 mil hp, they would die instantly if a city worth of players was able to attack them

you would have to give them like vet trial HM levels of health (vet HM falgravn has about 300 mil hp) and even then they would still probably be able to get killed if they werent flat out invulnerable like they are now

i dont think that you should get bounties for using skills, thats just really dumb (necromancer, vamp, WW are the only ones punished for this), but i also dont think that guards should be killable either

May I ask why?

How is the game harmed by being able to kill the guards?

I actually think it's more problematic that they can attack and kill you but you can't defend yourself.

I agree with making guards very hard, but I don't see any purpose to having them be immune.

Elder Scrolls is a series that's supposed to be about player choice and autonomy. Immune city guards are one of many examples of ESO being a game about the things you *can't* do rather than what you can.

if guards were killable at all, they would be killed, and then there would be no point to the justice system, might as well just do away with the entire justice system and guards at the same time then is basically what you would want, save you the time and effort of killing them

the guards are the only risk at all to someone playing a "criminal" (like actual stealing or murdering civilians), i think the devs adding criminal penalties for using your own skills was going a bit too far though, because it overly punishes certain classes or playstyles (its virtually impossible to try to dual on a necro, WW, or vampire (unless your only using passives) while near a town right now)

if you really dont like guards that much, just go to coldharbour, there is no justice system applied there, take everything you want with 0 risk and dont even have to go through a fence for laundering items

Juomuuri · October 1

Other. I have a better answer.

I voted "Other" because of the bias.

But I think it's a good thing you can't kill the guards, they're there so players don't turn the settlements into NPC graveyards... Also if you want to duel as a necro, vamp or werewolf, go to Bergama wayshrine, no guards and lots of space!

Edit: typo

Franchise408 · October 1

Necrotech_Master wrote: »

Franchise408 wrote: »

Necrotech_Master wrote: »

ArchMikem wrote: »

If they make Guards killable, then people will intentionally attack them. If that's ever the case I'd want them to have Vet Dungeon Boss health bars and if you aggro one, then EVERY Guard around should bear down on you.

guards right now only have ~10 mil hp, they would die instantly if a city worth of players was able to attack them

you would have to give them like vet trial HM levels of health (vet HM falgravn has about 300 mil hp) and even then they would still probably be able to get killed if they werent flat out invulnerable like they are now

i dont think that you should get bounties for using skills, thats just really dumb (necromancer, vamp, WW are the only ones punished for this), but i also dont think that guards should be killable either

May I ask why?

How is the game harmed by being able to kill the guards?

I actually think it's more problematic that they can attack and kill you but you can't defend yourself.

I agree with making guards very hard, but I don't see any purpose to having them be immune.

Elder Scrolls is a series that's supposed to be about player choice and autonomy. Immune city guards are one of many examples of ESO being a game about the things you *can't* do rather than what you can.

if guards were killable at all, they would be killed, and then there would be no point to the justice system, might as well just do away with the entire justice system and guards at the same time then is basically what you would want, save you the time and effort of killing them

the guards are the only risk at all to someone playing a "criminal" (like actual stealing or murdering civilians), i think the devs adding criminal penalties for using your own skills was going a bit too far though, because it overly punishes certain classes or playstyles (its virtually impossible to try to dual on a necro, WW, or vampire (unless your only using passives) while near a town right now)

if you really dont like guards that much, just go to coldharbour, there is no justice system applied there, take everything you want with 0 risk and dont even have to go through a fence for laundering items

There would still be a point to the justice system, as if you're fighting and killing guards, you can now automatically become KOS anywhere and everywhere. Make the guards strong enough that taking all the guards on solo is a problem, and all of a sudden there's still valid risk to being caught.

Being able to fight your way through a situation should be an option.

Necrotech_Master · October 1

Other. I have a better answer.

Franchise408 wrote: »

Necrotech_Master wrote: »

Franchise408 wrote: »

Necrotech_Master wrote: »

ArchMikem wrote: »

If they make Guards killable, then people will intentionally attack them. If that's ever the case I'd want them to have Vet Dungeon Boss health bars and if you aggro one, then EVERY Guard around should bear down on you.

guards right now only have ~10 mil hp, they would die instantly if a city worth of players was able to attack them

you would have to give them like vet trial HM levels of health (vet HM falgravn has about 300 mil hp) and even then they would still probably be able to get killed if they werent flat out invulnerable like they are now

i dont think that you should get bounties for using skills, thats just really dumb (necromancer, vamp, WW are the only ones punished for this), but i also dont think that guards should be killable either

May I ask why?

How is the game harmed by being able to kill the guards?

I actually think it's more problematic that they can attack and kill you but you can't defend yourself.

I agree with making guards very hard, but I don't see any purpose to having them be immune.

Elder Scrolls is a series that's supposed to be about player choice and autonomy. Immune city guards are one of many examples of ESO being a game about the things you *can't* do rather than what you can.

if guards were killable at all, they would be killed, and then there would be no point to the justice system, might as well just do away with the entire justice system and guards at the same time then is basically what you would want, save you the time and effort of killing them

the guards are the only risk at all to someone playing a "criminal" (like actual stealing or murdering civilians), i think the devs adding criminal penalties for using your own skills was going a bit too far though, because it overly punishes certain classes or playstyles (its virtually impossible to try to dual on a necro, WW, or vampire (unless your only using passives) while near a town right now)

if you really dont like guards that much, just go to coldharbour, there is no justice system applied there, take everything you want with 0 risk and dont even have to go through a fence for laundering items

There would still be a point to the justice system, as if you're fighting and killing guards, you can now automatically become KOS anywhere and everywhere. Make the guards strong enough that taking all the guards on solo is a problem, and all of a sudden there's still valid risk to being caught.

Being able to fight your way through a situation should be an option.

if you mean KOS as in other players attacking you, that will likely never happen, it was something the devs considered many years ago when adding the justice system but decided against it since it would likely just lead to griefing/other toxic gameplay (such as people camping outlaw refuges in major towns or quest NPCs)

if the guards were strong enough that you couldnt kill the guards solo anyway, then whats it matter if they are unkillable or not? right now they already have a skill that will 1 shot you after a certain amount of time anyway

if the guards were anything less than unkillable, theres no deterrent for people to just wipe out all of the guards in the city and then kill all of the killable NPCs there undeterred, most cities would become NPC graveyards as some others mentioned (there are currently some areas in the game with killable NPCs and no guards in the area and that already happens there)

Tandor · October 1

No they aren't. They maintain order for the cities. (screw necromancers)

coop500 wrote: »

Poll is kinda biased, I think the necromancer thing is dumb, but other than that, I do not think guards should be killable nor should we be able to sic them on other players.

All of this.

El_Borracho · October 1

TX12001rwb17_ESO wrote: »

Make the Guards killable, make them harder to get away from but also add Bounty Hunters who will attack you in the wild at random, the higher your bounty the more frequent and more powerful the Bounty Hunters will become.

Nah, they had this in RDR2. And wouldn't you know it, those bounty hunters would always show up at the most inconvenient time. Oh, you're about to bag the Legendary Buck? And in come the bounty hunters. To translate this into ESO, I could see the bounty hunters waiting until you have a world boss on the ropes then decide "now is the perfect time to attack."

Amottica · October 1

No they aren't. They maintain order for the cities. (screw necromancers)

Shara_Wynn wrote: »

Stafford197 wrote: »

katanagirl1 wrote: »

Biased poll.

Please stop requesting major changes to a 10 year old game when it is not an issue. Pay the fine or run away and wait out the bounty.

^^^ Exactly this.

This game is 10 YEARS OLD. Even if the idea has potential, changing the fundamentals is already a terrible idea.

I said the same for NB cloak becoming a toggle next patch. If it was a third morph then it would be fine, but to change the core ability in such a way is not cool.

If ZOS had this mindset then this game would be dead already. There should be no area of a game that isn't up for improvement.

The poll results indicate that this is not one of Zenimax's areas that needs to change. Even with the poll's bias, the answer is overwhelmingly the guards are fine as they are.

Jusey1 · October 2

Other. I have a better answer.

Everything is fine, I think we just need an settings option to opt out of "criminal activity abilities", like Necromancer, Werewolf, & Vampire. I do like the idea of what they did as is, but sometimes, I just want to opt out of it so I don't have to worry about accidentally bumping into a citizen or guard while I was using my abilities to "save the day" in a quest!

Jaimeh · October 2

I like that the guards are invincible. It adds a fun and interesting element to those playing with the justice system. And it's really easy to escape them even if you get caught on accident, especially in towns where you can jump in the water.

AllenaNightWood · October 2

TX12001rwb17_ESO wrote: »

Make the Guards killable, make them harder to get away from but also add Bounty Hunters who will attack you in the wild at random, the higher your bounty the more frequent and more powerful the Bounty Hunters will become.

this would be neat and have special loot and dialogue

Iriidius · October 3

To prevent players from killing all guards and then all NPCs and doing other crimes unpunished insteat of making all guards immortals oneshotting when getting annoyed ZoS could also let mortal guards guard the citys and replace them with stronger guards when they get killed until you have immortal ones (as last resort rather than first choice) and give the killer an increasing bounty.

Actually there are mortal 40k hp „guards“/soldiers but they do not care about player crimes more than other npcs.
If all guards stay immortal ZOS could atleast remove extra bounty for refusing arrest. It wasnt in Skyrim where guards where mortal so why should you get same bounty as for attacking when you refuse arrest from an invulnerable guard that you cant hurt and only run away from?