City Guards are Useless and Need an Overhaul.
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Stafford197✭✭✭✭✭Other. I have a better answer.katanagirl1 wrote: »Biased poll.
Please stop requesting major changes to a 10 year old game when it is not an issue. Pay the fine or run away and wait out the bounty.
^^^ Exactly this.
This game is 10 YEARS OLD. Even if the idea has potential, changing the fundamentals is already a terrible idea.
I said the same for NB cloak becoming a toggle next patch. If it was a third morph then it would be fine, but to change the core ability in such a way is not cool.1 -
TaSheen✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭No they aren't. They maintain order for the cities. (screw necromancers)
The guards in Cyrodil is to make taking objectives harder and more time consuming to take. Now for resources I say the flag turning time is the main issue if solo.Bradyfjord wrote: »Bradyfjord wrote: »I remember times in vanilla wow when alliance would raid crossroads on the way to other objectives.
Also in vanilla, I organized a small raid of leveling people in strangle thorn vale. We used water walking to go around the side of the map with water. Our objective was to stir up some action near dead mines.
I'm not saying it would be like that in ESO, but my point is that crazy stuff starts to happen when you take the rails off of an online game. And the developers and community here are generally afraid of the crazy things that I'm talking about.
At least, that's how it seems for ESO. Since I'm older now, I wouldn't do any of that. But I guarantee you that someone will try something, and it's going to be nuts until it gets fixed. So it might be better for ESO to leave it alone at this point.
Yeah, I remember that stuff from WoW too.... like groups killing all the quest givers over and over and over and over - ad infinitum ad nauseam.... Days sometimes, get up at ungodly hours to try to turn quests in....
Exactly. I just don't want to deal with that anymore. That's why the guards 'are' killable in cyrodil. It works there, and it should probably stay there.
*shrug* I don't do anything but repair walls in Cyro when it's an endeavor, and buy dawn-prism when I need one. Oh, and fish. But I'm all done with that again now.______________________________________________________
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Dagoth_Rac✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭The Justice System mini-game is that you cannot hack and slash your way to success. You have to ideally not get caught in first place. If you do get caught, you have to escape. Them's the rules. You are supposed to use stealth and speed and outlaw refuges to "win" at the Justice System. Asking to hack and slash your way through a stealth mini-game is like asking to be able to sneak past trial bosses.7 -
katanagirl1✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭Other. I have a better answer.Aggrovious wrote: »katanagirl1 wrote: »Biased poll.
Please stop requesting major changes to a 10 year old game when it is not an issue. Pay the fine or run away and wait out the bounty.
Then why do the forums exist?
You can make suggestions, but the way this particular gameplay is implemented is exactly what the devs had in mind. Sometimes players find an idea for improvement but typically it is a more subtle change.
Also, it also seems like players just aren’t willing to accept the way the game is played, as in this case, and want the game to change to accommodate them, instead of working around game constraints.
There are so many threads like this nowadays it is tiring to read them all.
I have a necro that just does daily crafting writs now and I accidentally hit too any circle buttons to back out of the menus, and summoned a blastbones and got a bounty. I just logged off and when I logged in later the bounty was gone.
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PS5 NA7 -
Rishikesa108✭✭✭✭✭
✭No they aren't. They maintain order for the cities. (screw necromancers)I like this system exactly how it currently is.
It makes sense.
I'd like 1 day in a year when the guards are killable tho.
A sort of crazy day where we can have a revenge.
Just 1 day in a year: "the day of the dead guard" !!!
It would be funny...Man did not weave the web of life – he is merely a strand in it. Whatever he does to the web, he does to himself3 -
Amottica✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭No they aren't. They maintain order for the cities. (screw necromancers)Poll is kinda biased, I think the necromancer thing is dumb, but other than that, I do not think guards should be killable nor should we be able to sic them on other players.
I agree, but more importantly, I do not understand the hoopla about the guards. They are extremely easy to escape, making them a minor inconvenience.
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oldbobdude✭✭✭✭✭No they aren't. They maintain order for the cities. (screw necromancers)No, don’t need the town to be like a trial battlefield. They’re supposed to be relatively quiet spots where people bank, craft, do their daily writs etc. if guards were killable there would be chaos in the streets.6 -
ComboBreaker88✭✭✭✭✭
✭Other. I have a better answer.ComboBreaker88 wrote: »Make it so players can kill other player to collect the bounty.
Also allow a bounty board and let players put bounties on other players for a fee. (This could also be a gold sink.)
The devs at one point considered that, and then decided against it thankfully. Way too many ways to grief people....
Grief?
Have a friend kill you, split the profits. Problem solved. Now you just made gold off of someone trying to have you killed. Also, placing a bounty on someone who already has a bounty should then put that bounty on your head and have it so whoever gets killed first gets the gold and the bounty is claimed.0 -
LunaFlora✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭Other. I have a better answer.No.miaow! i'm Luna ( she/her ).
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LunaFloraBlossom on pc.0 -
disky✭✭✭✭✭No they aren't. They maintain order for the cities. (screw necromancers)
What you see as an inconvenience, I see as a valuable limitation. It doesn't make sense that they're invincible but they need to be for a lot of valid MMO gameplay reasons. I understand your perspective, there are lots of people who play TES games that love to kill every guard and cause chaos in a city but in the context of an MMO it doesn't really work, and other MMOs have found this out the hard way only to make their guards invincible too.Aggrovious wrote: »Aggrovious wrote: »
What is the problem with unkilling guards ? I see zero issues.
They inconvenience the player. Do you like that? In other Elder Scrolls games, you can kill them...
If you're a criminal, I think it's important to have hard limitations in order to feel like tension and danger are present when you're committing crimes. If anything, they should probably be beefed up and made harder to avoid, purely in order to make things more exciting for those who engage in extralegal activities. My vampire assassin/thief is almost completely undeterred when committing whatever crime they like, and frankly, it's a little boring.4 -
Hapexamendios✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭I want a little nostalgia and have some guard call the players "criminal scum"0 -
Bradyfjord✭✭✭✭✭Hapexamendios wrote: »I want a little nostalgia and have some guard call the players "criminal scum"
It would only work for me if the guards say that in the way they did it in Morrowind/Oblivion.0 -
Trejgon✭✭✭✭Other. I have a better answer.npc guards in my opinion are fine, but the "Criminal act" abilities could use a revision to it, because some of them makes no sense whatsoever, on any level. During that revision a question to be pondered by zos designers should be, if there is even much of a point of singling out a class (and some curses) like that.0 -
EF321✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭Other. I have a better answer.If OP doesn't care to make proper poll, I won't care to type proper suggestions.9 -
Niliu✭✭✭No they aren't. They maintain order for the cities. (screw necromancers)Based on the voting, I'd say the term you're looking for is "ratio'd"Gimme back my sweetroll or so help me4 -
Niliu✭✭✭No they aren't. They maintain order for the cities. (screw necromancers)Aggrovious wrote: »Aggrovious wrote: »
What is the problem with unkilling guards ? I see zero issues.
They inconvenience the player. Do you like that? In other Elder Scrolls games, you can kill them...
This isn't those games. This is this game. Either accept the mechanics as they are, or move on.Gimme back my sweetroll or so help me7 -
Niliu✭✭✭No they aren't. They maintain order for the cities. (screw necromancers)Aggrovious wrote: »Aggrovious wrote: »They inconvenience the player. Do you like that? In other Elder Scrolls games, you can kill them...
In other elder scrolls, you can do a lot of thing that you can't do in ESO. I wouldn't take that as a valid argument.
As for they inconveniencing the player... even if killable, they would still do, right ? What kind of argument is that ?
Or do you mean them being unkillable inconvenience the player ? If so I disagree - that inconvenience me as much as equipement losing durability inconvenience me, as much as having a limited pool of stamina and magicka inconvenience, as much as being myself killable inconvenience me. It's just a part of the game mechanics that has to be taken into account.
Sorry but none of you arguments feel very compelling.
Prime example. My friend had bad lag. Who is about to leave the city and the guard pull him away from the door even though he interacted with the gate. All because he accidentally picked up a stolen item next to an NPC he had to talk to, but the hit box is bad
There's a setting to turn off stealing random items. The fix for that is literally already in the game. No one is FORCING you to participate in the Justice SystemGimme back my sweetroll or so help me6 -
Niliu✭✭✭No they aren't. They maintain order for the cities. (screw necromancers)Bradyfjord wrote: »I remember times in vanilla wow when alliance would raid crossroads on the way to other objectives.
Also in vanilla, I organized a small raid of leveling people in strangle thorn vale. We used water walking to go around the side of the map with water. Our objective was to stir up some action near dead mines.
I'm not saying it would be like that in ESO, but my point is that crazy stuff starts to happen when you take the rails off of an online game. And the developers and community here are generally afraid of the crazy things that I'm talking about.
At least, that's how it seems for ESO. Since I'm older now, I wouldn't do any of that. But I guarantee you that someone will try something, and it's going to be nuts until it gets fixed. So it might be better for ESO to leave it alone at this point.
My friend and I camped an event NPC in Elwynn Forest as Horde Druids. We'd wait til PvP disabled to rez, then immediately cat form and stealth, then one shot the event npc and get slaughtered by the angry allies. We traded off back and forth for about 2 hours just trolling the alliance. It was hilarious to me at the time that the very next patch they made those NPCs unattackable.Gimme back my sweetroll or so help me0 -
Niliu✭✭✭No they aren't. They maintain order for the cities. (screw necromancers)Stafford197 wrote: »katanagirl1 wrote: »Biased poll.
Please stop requesting major changes to a 10 year old game when it is not an issue. Pay the fine or run away and wait out the bounty.
^^^ Exactly this.
This game is 10 YEARS OLD. Even if the idea has potential, changing the fundamentals is already a terrible idea.
I said the same for NB cloak becoming a toggle next patch. If it was a third morph then it would be fine, but to change the core ability in such a way is not cool.
WoW is 20 and they still change basics. The flying mechanics had been the same for 18 years, now there are multiple differently flying types based on other versions they introduced over time. It's easy to change a lot of things.Gimme back my sweetroll or so help me0 -
Niliu✭✭✭No they aren't. They maintain order for the cities. (screw necromancers)Rishikesa108 wrote: »I like this system exactly how it currently is.
It makes sense.
I'd like 1 day in a year when the guards are killable tho.
A sort of crazy day where we can have a revenge.
Just 1 day in a year: "the day of the dead guard" !!!
It would be funny...
An ESO version of The Purge? Sounds awesome, actually.Gimme back my sweetroll or so help me1 -
Daemonai✭✭✭✭Yes they are. They do nothing for the game, but add more frustration to the player. Overhaul is needed for the bounty system or complete removal of guards.I genuinely don't understand the objections to making guards killable other than "it's been this way for 10 years". Yes, they've been implemented poorly for 10 years, lol.
If guards were made killable, what would really change? Cities would be full of dead NPCs? They already are. Players would steal everything not nailed to the ground? They already do. Guards don't actually prevent ANY crime in the game and even if they were completely removed, nothing would change. So why not allow them to be killable so players have another way to confront the justice system other than running away? It feels very bad mechanically to have a guard be able to damage/kill you but you cannot do the same to them.
Anyway, turns out the common city guard is the strongest being in the Tamriel
Afterall, even daedric princes can be killed. Why aren't we sending them to stop the daedric threat? 1 -
Shara_Wynn✭✭✭✭✭
✭Other. I have a better answer.Stafford197 wrote: »katanagirl1 wrote: »Biased poll.
Please stop requesting major changes to a 10 year old game when it is not an issue. Pay the fine or run away and wait out the bounty.
^^^ Exactly this.
This game is 10 YEARS OLD. Even if the idea has potential, changing the fundamentals is already a terrible idea.
I said the same for NB cloak becoming a toggle next patch. If it was a third morph then it would be fine, but to change the core ability in such a way is not cool.
If ZOS had this mindset then this game would be dead already. There should be no area of a game that isn't up for improvement.1 -
Aggrovious✭✭✭Yes they are. They do nothing for the game, but add more frustration to the player. Overhaul is needed for the bounty system or complete removal of guards.Aggrovious wrote: »Aggrovious wrote: »They inconvenience the player. Do you like that? In other Elder Scrolls games, you can kill them...
In other elder scrolls, you can do a lot of thing that you can't do in ESO. I wouldn't take that as a valid argument.
As for they inconveniencing the player... even if killable, they would still do, right ? What kind of argument is that ?
Or do you mean them being unkillable inconvenience the player ? If so I disagree - that inconvenience me as much as equipement losing durability inconvenience me, as much as having a limited pool of stamina and magicka inconvenience, as much as being myself killable inconvenience me. It's just a part of the game mechanics that has to be taken into account.
Sorry but none of you arguments feel very compelling.
Prime example. My friend had bad lag. Who is about to leave the city and the guard pull him away from the door even though he interacted with the gate. All because he accidentally picked up a stolen item next to an NPC he had to talk to, but the hit box is bad
There's a setting to turn off stealing random items. The fix for that is literally already in the game. No one is FORCING you to participate in the Justice System
my friend has to remember to turn this setting off. Mind you, if he is a necromancer there is no fix...Making a game fun should be a priority. Making a game balanced should not come at the expense of fun.0 -
Aggrovious✭✭✭Yes they are. They do nothing for the game, but add more frustration to the player. Overhaul is needed for the bounty system or complete removal of guards.Based on the voting, I'd say the term you're looking for is "ratio'd"
I did ask what everyone else thought and provided an "other" option. Most threads are biased and I will proudly say how useless I think the city guards are.Making a game fun should be a priority. Making a game balanced should not come at the expense of fun.0 -
Aggrovious✭✭✭Yes they are. They do nothing for the game, but add more frustration to the player. Overhaul is needed for the bounty system or complete removal of guards.
What you see as an inconvenience, I see as a valuable limitation. It doesn't make sense that they're invincible but they need to be for a lot of valid MMO gameplay reasons. I understand your perspective, there are lots of people who play TES games that love to kill every guard and cause chaos in a city but in the context of an MMO it doesn't really work, and other MMOs have found this out the hard way only to make their guards invincible too.Aggrovious wrote: »Aggrovious wrote: »
What is the problem with unkilling guards ? I see zero issues.
They inconvenience the player. Do you like that? In other Elder Scrolls games, you can kill them...
If you're a criminal, I think it's important to have hard limitations in order to feel like tension and danger are present when you're committing crimes. If anything, they should probably be beefed up and made harder to avoid, purely in order to make things more exciting for those who engage in extralegal activities. My vampire assassin/thief is almost completely undeterred when committing whatever crime they like, and frankly, it's a little boring.
I'd like to think we can improve the bounty system in some way to increase more meaningful gameplay for all the vampires, werewolves etc. I think we should be able to have some ability to "get rid of," guards in some way. I would like to bring up this could be the best update ever because ZOS can update vampires and make them playable in PVE. In this update, the bounty system can be adjusted and guards lose immunity. HP, maybe they can keep, IDK.
I think at the bare minimum, having a chaos event were players raid certain cities. Then the players that don't want to deal with it can simply not go to that city. I know its an MMO, but it seems to only be a crutch to not make things cooler. The current guards need to have some important function to the game, other than being annoying. Having consequences stealing from say Almalexia's temple, oh yeah execute at town square or something.Making a game fun should be a priority. Making a game balanced should not come at the expense of fun.0 -
Aggrovious✭✭✭Yes they are. They do nothing for the game, but add more frustration to the player. Overhaul is needed for the bounty system or complete removal of guards.Dagoth_Rac wrote: »The Justice System mini-game is that you cannot hack and slash your way to success. You have to ideally not get caught in first place. If you do get caught, you have to escape. Them's the rules. You are supposed to use stealth and speed and outlaw refuges to "win" at the Justice System. Asking to hack and slash your way through a stealth mini-game is like asking to be able to sneak past trial bosses.
Its not just about thieves. That is the problem I have with the justice system. It also applies to vampires, werewolves and necromancers. I don't want a hack and slash game. I want to have the ability to kill a guard, but they are immortal.Making a game fun should be a priority. Making a game balanced should not come at the expense of fun.0 -
Heren✭✭✭I genuinely don't understand the objections to making guards killable other than "it's been this way for 10 years". Yes, they've been implemented poorly for 10 years, lol.
If guards were made killable, what would really change? Cities would be full of dead NPCs? They already are. Players would steal everything not nailed to the ground? They already do. Guards don't actually prevent ANY crime in the game and even if they were completely removed, nothing would change. So why not allow them to be killable so players have another way to confront the justice system other than running away? It feels very bad mechanically to have a guard be able to damage/kill you but you cannot do the same to them.
Argument goes both way - nothing would really change if you could kill them, appart for your feelings. Wich are real and have a certain degree of importance, I won't deny that - actually the feelings about this are, from my point of view, the biggest argument in favor of a change.
But in the same time, if guards would be killable, how much would that change ? It mostly depend on how powerful they would be. If they present some challenge or take some time to kill, well who would stand their ground and spent time killing them and risking their stolen goods appart from the occasionnal achievement ? Most would still run away because that's the most effective way of playing this game - kill only what you can't avoid killing. If they present no challenge, I feel that would be very sad to have guards being just as weak as a pony guar. And frankly, I don't think there's much room between these two options.
For me honestly, it's a non-issue. I would be find with guards either way, and I would most likely deal with them the same way I do actually. You can flip a coin to decide if they need to be changed, I won't care. And so I see no real reasons to change them - and sure, no real reasons not to change them. It goes both way.
But some arguments are frankly so laughable I can't resist to respond to them.0 -
BXR_Lonestar✭✭✭✭✭
✭Other. I have a better answer.This isn't so much an update as it is a change, but we really ought to be able to eliminate city guards with the blade of woe.1 -
Ingenon✭✭✭✭✭No they aren't. They maintain order for the cities. (screw necromancers)katanagirl1 wrote: »Please stop requesting major changes to a 10 year old game when it is not an issue. Pay the fine or run away and wait out the bounty.
^ This3 -
Stafford197✭✭✭✭✭Other. I have a better answer.Stafford197 wrote: »katanagirl1 wrote: »Biased poll.
Please stop requesting major changes to a 10 year old game when it is not an issue. Pay the fine or run away and wait out the bounty.
^^^ Exactly this.
This game is 10 YEARS OLD. Even if the idea has potential, changing the fundamentals is already a terrible idea.
I said the same for NB cloak becoming a toggle next patch. If it was a third morph then it would be fine, but to change the core ability in such a way is not cool.
WoW is 20 and they still change basics. The flying mechanics had been the same for 18 years, now there are multiple differently flying types based on other versions they introduced over time. It's easy to change a lot of things.
I can’t say much about WoW since I don’t play it, but there’s nothing wrong with adding to a base system. It’s only an issue if you remove something that has been there since the beginning which players would consider part of the core experience.
The example of Nightblade Cloak is how I mean it. I have no problem with ZOS adding a new third morph which causes it to become a toggle, but changing the base ability is not okay.
Another example would be Provisioning System. Longtime players may recall how the original Provisioning system was replaced a long time ago. This was totally fine at the time. However, if ZOS decided to make all of our Provisioning items accumulated over the past 10 years become Deprecated/Useless to replace it with a new system in 2024, I would be completely against it.
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