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• [IN PROGRESS] PC/Mac: NA and EU megaservers for patch maintenance – September 15, 4:00AM EDT (8:00 UTC) - 9:00AM EDT (13:00 UTC)
· Xbox: NA and EU megaservers for patch maintenance – September 16, 6:00AM EDT (10:00 UTC) - 12:00PM EDT (16:00 UTC)
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Auction House
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mcatchlovb16_ESO✭✭✭Yes!I can't believe that such a simple needed function like an AH isn't in game yet. This is 2014 not 1999.1 -
methjester✭✭✭Yes!mcatchlovb16_ESO wrote: »I can't believe that such a simple needed function like an AH isn't in game yet. This is 2014 not 1999.
I can't believe that half the class abilities are still bugged, quests are still broken, Pvp is an unbalanced mess, gear breaks just for fun of it, and yes there is no economy save for shouts and a really bad guild store which... some people like.
People will like this game just because it's called "Elder Scrolls". Until they see through the gaping holes and end the honeymoon nothing is going to get fixed. If it were called Dragon Slayer Chronicles, nobody would be here for the problems I listed.
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Dyvim✭✭✭Yes!
Failed logic again. It doesn't make your case for you. That is his opinion on what it does. And if it does, in fact, allow for what he says it allows, that does not mean that it is a bad thing. Some people like playing games that allow for manipulation and depth.I voted against having an Auction House. I could write a book on why.
But ill make it brief.
The current system allows for more control, more manipulation and more depth to the economy.
It is far superior for players who like to manipulate the market, it is also significantly more realistic than a one stop shop.
Uh, why do we WANT??? to make it easier for players to manipulate the market??? Thanks for making the pro AH case for us. Again.
Pay attention @Brennan, this is what I have been trying to get you to understand for a week or so...small markets, with poor information facilities are much easier to manipulate and screw people with...
To make it simple for you:
someone stating an opinion does not = proof of something
players manipulating the market does not = bad just because you don't like it
A system that makes it easier for players to manipulate the market isn't bad? Fail troll is fail. One of the main arguments for the anti AH crowd is based on the mistaken assumption that somehow a large market with more competition is going to make it easier to manipulate the economy...of course this is wrong, and the exact opposite is true.
Here we have an anti AH type admitting to what basic econ principles already tell us...smaller markets are easier to screw with...but please, fail troll, keep trolling.Edited by Dyvim on May 9, 2014 9:44PMAngels are bright still, though the brightest fell... -S.1 -
Allyah✭✭✭No!
Someone having a different opinion than you does not make them a troll. Obviously.
Failed logic again. It doesn't make your case for you. That is his opinion on what it does. And if it does, in fact, allow for what he says it allows, that does not mean that it is a bad thing. Some people like playing games that allow for manipulation and depth.I voted against having an Auction House. I could write a book on why.
But ill make it brief.
The current system allows for more control, more manipulation and more depth to the economy.
It is far superior for players who like to manipulate the market, it is also significantly more realistic than a one stop shop.
Uh, why do we WANT??? to make it easier for players to manipulate the market??? Thanks for making the pro AH case for us. Again.
Pay attention @Brennan, this is what I have been trying to get you to understand for a week or so...small markets, with poor information facilities are much easier to manipulate and screw people with...
To make it simple for you:
someone stating an opinion does not = proof of something
players manipulating the market does not = bad just because you don't like it
A system that makes it easier for players to manipulate the market isn't bad? Fail troll is fail. One of the main arguments for the anti AH crowd is based on the mistaken assumption that somehow a large market with more competition is going to make it easier to manipulate the economy...of course this is wrong, and the exact opposite is true.
Here we have an anti AH type admitting to what basic econ principles already tell us...smaller markets are easier to screw with...but please, fail troll, keep trolling.
Again, whether you or I agree with what makes a system bad is not the point. People enjoy different things. To someone, players being allowed to manipulate the market is not a bad thing. To others, it is.
People who don't want an AH all have separate opinions. It's not like they are one singular mind agreeing on one thing. The same can be said for the people who do want an AH.
That you feel the need to keep trying to prove your opinion so badly speaks volumes about how desperate you are to feel that your opinion is validated.0 -
Dyvim✭✭✭Yes!That you keep trolling, with no valid attempt to deal with the facts about markets and economics that are staring you in the face, speaks volumes about you. Fail troll. Market fundamentals are not opinions. Having a system that allows players to manipulate markets more easily is bad. That is not an opinion...players screwing over other players through market manipulation isn't good, isn't fair...or do I need to draw you a picture...in crayons...on large paper...geesh...at least try to be intelligent with your trolling.Edited by Dyvim on May 9, 2014 10:08PMAngels are bright still, though the brightest fell... -S.0
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Allyah✭✭✭No!
That you keep trolling, with no valid attempt to deal with the facts about markets and economics that are staring you in the face, speaks volumes about you. Fail troll. At least try to be intelligent.That you keep trolling, with no valid attempt to deal with the facts about markets and economics that are staring you in the face, speaks volumes about you. Fail troll. Market fundamentals are not opinions. Having a system that allows players to manipulate markets more easily is bad. That is not an opinion...players screwing over other players through market manipulation isn't good, isn't fair...or do I need to draw you a picture...in crayons...on large paper...geesh...at least try to be intelligent with your trolling.0 -
Brennan✭✭✭No!Market manipulation is going to happen regardless of the scale of the market. In this segregated environment, markets are insulated from manipulation in other markets.
Further, no one has answered my question:
Elder Scrolls Online currently has no global auction house.
There are no indications that ZOS will be adding an auction house within the next year.
What do you lose by waiting a year to see how this pans out?0 -
Dyvim✭✭✭Yes!Market manipulation is going to happen regardless of the scale of the market. In this segregated environment, markets are insulated from manipulation in other markets.
Further, no one has answered my question:
Elder Scrolls Online currently has no global auction house.
There are no indications that ZOS will be adding an auction house within the next year.
What do you lose by waiting a year to see how this pans out?
Wrong...its a matter of degrees...market manipulation is much easier in small markets, much harder in large markets. In the segregated environment competition is hampered. That means less efficient pricing, coupled with a complete lack of market information. Its an economic cluster. There is no market insulation, since some people can move between a given set of markets, and other cannot or do not, because they have no knowledge of prices between the markets...
What we have now is a complete and total cluster...stop trying to blindly defend it and see the broken fundamentals behind it for once, please.
AS far as waiting...meh, we will see what the future brings...no reason not to lobby for better solutions in the meantime.Edited by Dyvim on May 10, 2014 4:53AMAngels are bright still, though the brightest fell... -S.0 -
methjester✭✭✭Yes!Market manipulation is going to happen regardless of the scale of the market. In this segregated environment, markets are insulated from manipulation in other markets.
Further, no one has answered my question:
Elder Scrolls Online currently has no global auction house.
There are no indications that ZOS will be adding an auction house within the next year.
What do you lose by waiting a year to see how this pans out?
Subs. You'll be losing subs. People, like me don't like broken games. Their lack of vision and shortsightedness is troubling. No fixes for core broken features in the release month is kinda bad. I doubt they'll fix them soon either.
I'm gathering that at least half of the people that bought this game are leaving for a lot of reasons. They aren't bragging about sales or subs like they usually do so take that as you will. Fanboys will stick around but MMO players won't, this game isn't good enough.
Maybe I'll come back when this game isn't a bug ridden feature devoid mess. Anwyays, I won't let the door hit me in the rear and you can't have my stuff.
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Brennan✭✭✭No!Market manipulation is going to happen regardless of the scale of the market. In this segregated environment, markets are insulated from manipulation in other markets.
Further, no one has answered my question:
Elder Scrolls Online currently has no global auction house.
There are no indications that ZOS will be adding an auction house within the next year.
What do you lose by waiting a year to see how this pans out?
Wrong...its a matter of degrees...market manipulation is much easier in small markets, much harder in large markets. In the segregated environment competition is hampered. That means less efficient pricing, coupled with a complete lack of market information. Its an economic cluster. There is no market insulation, since some people can move between a given set of markets, and other cannot or do not, because they have no knowledge of prices between the markets...
What we have now is a complete and total cluster...stop trying to blindly defend it and see the broken fundamentals behind it for once, please.
AS far as waiting meh, we will see what the future brings...no reason to lobby for better solutions in the meantime.
You're not paying attention to what I am saying. That doesn't surprise me.
Market manipulation in small markets is easier - yes.
But manipulation in this market does not equal manipulation in that market
In a single market, global system manipulation in the one market is not insulated by segregation.
Market manipulation in the one market is manipulation in all markets.
Because all = one.
Don't blindly defend the system that doesn't exist because it doesn't fit your dream of a perfect economy.
Edited by Brennan on May 10, 2014 1:06AM0 -
Brennan✭✭✭No!methjester wrote: »Market manipulation is going to happen regardless of the scale of the market. In this segregated environment, markets are insulated from manipulation in other markets.
Further, no one has answered my question:
Elder Scrolls Online currently has no global auction house.
There are no indications that ZOS will be adding an auction house within the next year.
What do you lose by waiting a year to see how this pans out?
Subs. You'll be losing subs. People, like me don't like broken games. Their lack of vision and shortsightedness is troubling. No fixes for core broken features in the release month is kinda bad. I doubt they'll fix them soon either.
I'm gathering that at least half of the people that bought this game are leaving for a lot of reasons. They aren't bragging about sales or subs like they usually do so take that as you will. Fanboys will stick around but MMO players won't, this game isn't good enough.
Maybe I'll come back when this game isn't a bug ridden feature devoid mess. Anwyays, I won't let the door hit me in the rear and you can't have my stuff.
And of course you have a source for your claim that half the people that bought the game are cancelling...
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methjester✭✭✭Yes!methjester wrote: »Market manipulation is going to happen regardless of the scale of the market. In this segregated environment, markets are insulated from manipulation in other markets.
Further, no one has answered my question:
Elder Scrolls Online currently has no global auction house.
There are no indications that ZOS will be adding an auction house within the next year.
What do you lose by waiting a year to see how this pans out?
Subs. You'll be losing subs. People, like me don't like broken games. Their lack of vision and shortsightedness is troubling. No fixes for core broken features in the release month is kinda bad. I doubt they'll fix them soon either.
I'm gathering that at least half of the people that bought this game are leaving for a lot of reasons. They aren't bragging about sales or subs like they usually do so take that as you will. Fanboys will stick around but MMO players won't, this game isn't good enough.
Maybe I'll come back when this game isn't a bug ridden feature devoid mess. Anwyays, I won't let the door hit me in the rear and you can't have my stuff.
And of course you have a source for your claim that half the people that bought the game are cancelling...
Lol, you and your sources. Just wait a few days. My extra 5 just ran out and I'm out. I'm sure you'll notice less and less people. This game is sooooo wonderful and perfect it's not losing subs, it's attracting them!!
Sources... You must be a crap ton of fun at parties.Edited by methjester on May 10, 2014 1:13AM0 -
Brennan✭✭✭No!methjester wrote: »methjester wrote: »Market manipulation is going to happen regardless of the scale of the market. In this segregated environment, markets are insulated from manipulation in other markets.
Further, no one has answered my question:
Elder Scrolls Online currently has no global auction house.
There are no indications that ZOS will be adding an auction house within the next year.
What do you lose by waiting a year to see how this pans out?
Subs. You'll be losing subs. People, like me don't like broken games. Their lack of vision and shortsightedness is troubling. No fixes for core broken features in the release month is kinda bad. I doubt they'll fix them soon either.
I'm gathering that at least half of the people that bought this game are leaving for a lot of reasons. They aren't bragging about sales or subs like they usually do so take that as you will. Fanboys will stick around but MMO players won't, this game isn't good enough.
Maybe I'll come back when this game isn't a bug ridden feature devoid mess. Anwyays, I won't let the door hit me in the rear and you can't have my stuff.
And of course you have a source for your claim that half the people that bought the game are cancelling...
Lol, you and your sources. Just wait a few days. My extra 5 just ran out and I'm out. I'm sure you'll notice less and less people. This game is sooooo wonderful and perfect it's not losing subs, it's attracting them!!
Sources... You must be a crap ton of fun at parties.
So you don't have a source. I suppose it would be half, if you and I were the only two that bought the game.
Have fun doing whatever you do after you're gone and good luck.0 -
Beryl✭✭✭Yes!methjester wrote: »Market manipulation is going to happen regardless of the scale of the market. In this segregated environment, markets are insulated from manipulation in other markets.
Further, no one has answered my question:
Elder Scrolls Online currently has no global auction house.
There are no indications that ZOS will be adding an auction house within the next year.
What do you lose by waiting a year to see how this pans out?
Subs. You'll be losing subs. People, like me don't like broken games. Their lack of vision and shortsightedness is troubling. No fixes for core broken features in the release month is kinda bad. I doubt they'll fix them soon either.
I'm gathering that at least half of the people that bought this game are leaving for a lot of reasons. They aren't bragging about sales or subs like they usually do so take that as you will. Fanboys will stick around but MMO players won't, this game isn't good enough.
Maybe I'll come back when this game isn't a bug ridden feature devoid mess. Anwyays, I won't let the door hit me in the rear and you can't have my stuff.
And of course you have a source for your claim that half the people that bought the game are cancelling...
"Half the people" was probably an exaggeration, but don't you notice yourself that people leave the game already? During the early access and the first few days of the official release I joined 5 newly formed trading guilds. Two of them had some management and players who are not online for over 2 weeks without a note are kicked to free space for new players. In other guilds no one was ever kicked. Yesterday I checked and there were on average 30 players per guild (all guilds are maxed at 500 players) which did not log for over a month. Isn't that impressive for a game which is 1 month old? Then, again on average, half of the guild members were offline for more than 7 days. Of course May holidays can explain some of that, but for me these numbers were quite interesting. I don't know how many players stop playing now when the pre-ordered 30 days and extra 5 days expired.. can't check since I am among those who canceled their sub and "goodbye" threads are not allowed here. I only know that a large number of players with which I was randomly chatting in the beginning of April (pugs for low level dungeons, many friend requests afterward, mutual support during the further questing) stopped playing a couple of weeks ago. My friend list indicated their activity pretty well.
These observations also don't tell anything about the players who just started playing the game. And I have no idea if the situation on EU and NA servers is the same. From some discussions on PvE and PvE forums I get a feeling that the NA server is far more populated and the fluctuations in player population will be less obvious.0 -
Blade_07✭✭✭✭Yes!100% HELL YES!!! Guild stores was a seriously crappy idea....sorry but its true!“Man can live about forty days without food, about three days without water, about eight minutes without air, but only for one second without hope.”0 -
fosley_ESO✭✭Yes!The word "need" is a little excessive. There isn't a "need" for players to trade anything at all. However, I've had stuff I can sell in 30 seconds in zone chat that doesn't sell for half the price in 30 days in the guild store. And it's not like I can sell an item to multiple guilds at the same time, unless I'm farming tons of that item so I can post stacks of the same thing in multiple guilds.
I think if they increased guild sizes so you can post to several thousand people at once, overhauled the store UI so it's better than a 2-week school project in a high school class, and made it easier to post multiple items at once, it would go a long ways. Simple things like saving the value you last posted a given item at are also very nice.0 -
Mucera78✭No!No, absolutely not.
The current system is better in so many ways. I have always been against auction houses. Together with the whole "the entire game must be soloable" bullcrap.
Dont get me wrong, if there would be an online game specifically for that, i would try it.
But in general i think that a games longevity and the social interaction between its players, both of which are linked, suffer immensely from the "casualisation" and the thought that non social play has to be catered to just as much.
Of course you can still talk to others over TS or via chat while soloing but you could do that while playing almost any sp game.
Now, auction house is a huge part of the problem.
It makes it extremely easy to anonymously trade any item. As such further undermining any need for social interaction.
ESO is the first mmo i enjoy since, well, lets just say, since long ago.
I have a few guild for various purposes, i trade in all of them, knowing that barry usually has some plants, harry is the guy that knows how to get ore and larry is the best cook around.
Its also more immersive to share and sell with the people you actually know ingame.
I also enjoy the lore, just running around, actually reading quest texts or just eradicating a necro population for a time.
In short, the current implementation of trade fits nicely into the bigger picture, forming a more tight knit community kind of game that gives me a warm fuzzy feeling i had not had for a long time in a game.
TLDR:
No auction house please.
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Soloeus✭✭✭✭✭
✭Yes!I hate all of the items being hidden behind the wall of being in a guild.
Within; Without.2 -
Jeremy✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Yes!Market manipulation is going to happen regardless of the scale of the market. In this segregated environment, markets are insulated from manipulation in other markets.
Further, no one has answered my question:
Elder Scrolls Online currently has no global auction house.
There are no indications that ZOS will be adding an auction house within the next year.
What do you lose by waiting a year to see how this pans out?
Wrong...its a matter of degrees...market manipulation is much easier in small markets, much harder in large markets. In the segregated environment competition is hampered. That means less efficient pricing, coupled with a complete lack of market information. Its an economic cluster. There is no market insulation, since some people can move between a given set of markets, and other cannot or do not, because they have no knowledge of prices between the markets...
What we have now is a complete and total cluster...stop trying to blindly defend it and see the broken fundamentals behind it for once, please.
AS far as waiting meh, we will see what the future brings...no reason to lobby for better solutions in the meantime.
You're not paying attention to what I am saying. That doesn't surprise me.
Market manipulation in small markets is easier - yes.
But manipulation in this market does not equal manipulation in that market
In a single market, global system manipulation in the one market is not insulated by segregation.
Market manipulation in the one market is manipulation in all markets.
Because all = one.
Don't blindly defend the system that doesn't exist because it doesn't fit your dream of a perfect economy.
You are missing his point.
The reason a larger and more open market is harder to manipulate isn't because it's one market. It's because such a market would have more participants and competition to help self-regulate and guard against abuse.
Putting up borders and segregating a population into smaller isolated markets in no way helps insulate against a more wider-spread corruption like your post implies. That theory has been disproven by reality time and time again. In fact - and generally speaking - the smaller and more isolated a system is, it usually follows the more corrupt it is. And anyone familiar with politics, economics or has any sort of historical perspective on social structures can attest to that.
Nothing is ever perfect. But a more free and open economy where everyone can freely participate in is vastly superior in all ways to small isolated economies where a mere handful of people can effectively control the market. So I would counter and suggest it's you defending a unrealistic dream here - because isolationism doesn't prevent or even insulate against corruption. It never has. And it never will.Edited by Jeremy on May 12, 2014 2:52PM1 -
Jeremy✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Yes!No, absolutely not.
The current system is better in so many ways. I have always been against auction houses. Together with the whole "the entire game must be soloable" bullcrap.
Dont get me wrong, if there would be an online game specifically for that, i would try it.
But in general i think that a games longevity and the social interaction between its players, both of which are linked, suffer immensely from the "casualisation" and the thought that non social play has to be catered to just as much.
Of course you can still talk to others over TS or via chat while soloing but you could do that while playing almost any sp game.
Now, auction house is a huge part of the problem.
It makes it extremely easy to anonymously trade any item. As such further undermining any need for social interaction.
ESO is the first mmo i enjoy since, well, lets just say, since long ago.
I have a few guild for various purposes, i trade in all of them, knowing that barry usually has some plants, harry is the guy that knows how to get ore and larry is the best cook around.
Its also more immersive to share and sell with the people you actually know ingame.
I also enjoy the lore, just running around, actually reading quest texts or just eradicating a necro population for a time.
In short, the current implementation of trade fits nicely into the bigger picture, forming a more tight knit community kind of game that gives me a warm fuzzy feeling i had not had for a long time in a game.
TLDR:
No auction house please.
How on earth would an auction house keep you from enjoying the lore or reading quests? Or from sharing with people you know or forming tight-knit communities?
You're argument is baffling, for lack of a better word.
And there is nothing immersive or socially interesting about browsing a guild store listing or spamming WTS/WTB spam on chat. So we are just going to have to disagree about that.
The truth is if these current tools we have were half as interesting and fun to use as you make out, you would have nothing to fear from an auction house. Because people would continue to use them even if one was implemented simply for the exciting social experience you claim they offer.
But the reality is they don't - and you know that - which is why you don't want an auction house put in because you know most people would rather use that instead of the crappy system we have now.
Edited by Jeremy on May 12, 2014 2:08PM2 -
wyrdob16_ESO✭✭Yes!While not having a central auction house does have its advantages, the way it is currently working is pretty poor. I have to click through the offerings of four different trading guilds if I want to see who offers what for a reasonable price. Besides, trading guilds are too small as it is, 500 people is just not enough. I also hate that I am forced to chose between having a social / pvp guild and being able to trade efficiently.
I would like to see an UI which lets me see all tradings guilds at once, as in if I search for heavy helmets, I want to see all items from all guilds I am in at once. All I may need is some notification somewhere from where that item is sold.0 -
VileIntent✭✭✭✭No!LadyInTheWater wrote: »We HAVE an auction house.
Go to the bank, click on the banker, go to [Guild Store]. You have up to 5 different ones to choose from.
And all 5 of them never or almost never have what I am looking for.
Guild Stores are a sorry excuse for an auction house.
your obviously in the wrong guilds...0 -
Jeremy✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Yes!VileIntent wrote: »LadyInTheWater wrote: »We HAVE an auction house.
Go to the bank, click on the banker, go to [Guild Store]. You have up to 5 different ones to choose from.
And all 5 of them never or almost never have what I am looking for.
Guild Stores are a sorry excuse for an auction house.
your obviously in the wrong guilds...
Perhaps.
Either way, the economy should not depend on being in the right guilds. And judging by the amount of people I have spoken to who are having this exact same problem - these right guilds must not be very common.2 -
demonlkojipub19_ESO✭✭✭✭✭Yes!Guild stores might end up amounting to an AH depending on what they have planned for it in 1.1. They are going to make us buy kiosks for an unknown amount tho.. But if they don't amount to the selling/buying power of a real AH, then we'll still be needing a real AH, Server/faction wide.0 -
Katahl✭No!I read as much of this thread as I could stomach. I've come to decide that this game is too young to have given the current economy a fair shake. While I agree the current system is radically different from what we are used to in MMO's, I believe in time it will develop into more than we could have hoped.
Patience is one thing we gamers are short on. But any Elder Scrolls fan knows... patience is a must in Tamriel."Fear not the darkness, for it is already within you."2 -
Jeremy✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Yes!I read as much of this thread as I could stomach. I've come to decide that this game is too young to have given the current economy a fair shake. While I agree the current system is radically different from what we are used to in MMO's, I believe in time it will develop into more than we could have hoped.
Patience is one thing we gamers are short on. But any Elder Scrolls fan knows... patience is a must in Tamriel.
I think a month of playing is long enough to have a fair opinion about something. And it's not the fact that it's radically different that bothers us. It's the fact that it's radically ineffective that is the issue.
But either way, the developers recognize there is a problem because they are already starting to make changes. So that's a good sign.
Patience is one thing. But refusing to recognize a problem where one exists is another.Edited by Jeremy on May 12, 2014 4:06PM0 -
No!There needs to be a way to sell to each other with out spamming chat windows. A location where everyone is there to trade that doesn't connect to the whole server. Isolated but accessible to every one in that area. A store that people can make items available to others that they don't want. But no server wide economy.Edited by Enderman_Slayer on May 12, 2014 4:35PMJust finished my new signature......Images are not allowed in signatures. Remove them and save to keep the changes.1 -
Jeremy✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Yes!There needs to be a way to sell to each other with out spamming chat windows.
There is. And it's called an Auction house
0 -
Trosski✭Yes!Personally I don't care if it's a global AH, Faction AH, or if the guilds are able to link their guild stores to other guilds through alliance treaties(or something to that effect); but I would like to see a change from what is currently implemented.
I am not a fan of player stores. They did that in EQ, and it just forces people to have to stand around while they hock their wares. Although they could give you a store front with a "Manager" that you hand items you want sold, but that still requires game space in the world for every character in the game, and we would run into the over crowding like UO had with player housing.
In my opinion linking the guild stores would be the best option, and they could make it an optional linking. Maybe you want to RP your guild as a black market, and your wares are not available on the main market while you join another "legit" guild that trades on the open market. just some thoughts.
I really don't care what everyone else has to say about it... not trying to enflame the post, but I probably won't look back at the post again, so don't bother telling me how you don't agree with me.0