Dyvim wrote: »

Allyah wrote: »

Dyvim wrote: »

Allyah wrote: »

...I would love to hear you explain to me why this is. Your continued assumptions about what I do and don't know about something are a little interesting. Last time I checked, I was the only one in my head.
Crafters can already sell anything not bound that they would like to sell. So... looks like your point on that is out for the count. And no, they don't need to buy the materials. They are available everywhere.

With you attitude and lack of reading comprehension I doubt anyone can explain anything to you. Also, I am certainly not willing to stipulate what is or isn't in YOUR head at this point, wouldn't surprise me if you hear all kinds of "voices"...lol.

What the heck, I'll keep it short. Some crafters don't like to gather. Some players do like to gather. Having a AH system that easily facilitates transactions between players is a tried and true method, over 10+ years of heavy utilization in AAA MMOs, to get this done. It isn't a question of "can" they sell it...it is a question of what do they have to go through to sell it, and how efficient is that sale going to be in the small, fractured guild markets they have available to them, versus a full featured AH with orders of magnitude more buyers and sellers, which means more competition, which means more efficient pricing that goes hand in hand with the more efficient supply/demand/price curves that large markets inherently have.

I was talking about explaining why an economy trading is the foundation of an MMO. Or rather, why it must be so. And, if possible, explain why an AH is the system needed for an economy to work. Oh, if you would, make it something that is more than just your opinion. I've already heard that from you and others (which would be okay) but I'm seriously unimpressed with the lack of logic in most of these posts.

Poor reading comp skills are poor. I stated that transactions or trade between players was the basis of an ECONOMY IN AN MMO. Not that an economy was the foundation of an MMO, although certainly an economic system is an integral part of any modern AAA MMO. As far as AHs being needed, they are the best solution to the requirements to allow players to easily transact in game. There are a number of reason for this, but most of them revolve around the market fundamentals inherent in large markets versus less efficient smaller markets. If you need education as to why larger markets are inherently more efficient and produce more rational supply/demand/price curves, along with more effective competition, than smaller markets, I suggest you do some googling and educate yourself. I have no interest in trying to teach you the basics of econ 101.

Not poor reading comp skills. Just a mistake in the writing. Although I must say... trying to explain why trading is the foundation of an MMO seems like it would be much more difficult than explaining why an economy is a foundation of an MMO.

You're willing to tell me your opinion as if it is the one great truth but, yet, you still cannot back it up with any proof.

Also, someone here seems a little too obsessed with telling everyone with a different opinion that they need to be educated. Seems like you've got a little bit of a superiority complex problem.

Also, wrong use of the word stipulate in your earlier post.

I would say yes if people couldn't be taken advantage of... In any way. Downside all systems can be exploited. We can see that. So the question is redundant. The Auction House would have Advantages. I prefer to see my "Dealers" Avatar and Trade. Or even agree to a COD in a private whisp. It makes me feel more in control of my transactions.

Auctionhouse provides easier access but also much more anonymity. But I kind of RP often so the classical AH I know from other games kind of turn down the immersion.

My personal decisions and opinion: NO AUCTIONHOUSE...

Pendrillion wrote: »

I would say yes if people couldn't be taken advantage of... In any way. Downside all systems can be exploited. We can see that. So the question is redundant. The Auction House would have Advantages. I prefer to see my "Dealers" Avatar and Trade. Or even agree to a COD in a private whisp. It makes me feel more in control of my transactions.

Auctionhouse provides easier access but also much more anonymity. But I kind of RP often so the classical AH I know from other games kind of turn down the immersion.

My personal decisions and opinion: NO AUCTIONHOUSE...

I will be honest. You have a personal preference and you stated it. You didn't list bizarre and nonfactual things that you claim will occur. You didn't resort to personal attacks.

For all of that you are one of the few people in the no vote who's opinion I respect. If only all of the people who share your opinion came across as reasonable as yourself.

Allyah wrote: »

methjester wrote: »

Pendrillion wrote: »

I would say yes if people couldn't be taken advantage of... In any way. Downside all systems can be exploited. We can see that. So the question is redundant. The Auction House would have Advantages. I prefer to see my "Dealers" Avatar and Trade. Or even agree to a COD in a private whisp. It makes me feel more in control of my transactions.

Auctionhouse provides easier access but also much more anonymity. But I kind of RP often so the classical AH I know from other games kind of turn down the immersion.

My personal decisions and opinion: NO AUCTIONHOUSE...

I will be honest. You have a personal preference and you stated it. You didn't list bizarre and nonfactual things that you claim will occur. You didn't resort to personal attacks.

For all of that you are one of the few people in the no vote who's opinion I respect. If only all of the people who share your opinion came across as reasonable as yourself.

Insults others while praising someone for not resorting to personal attacks. Truly intelligent. Also, hi pot.

My point proven. I have yet to see anyone else in the no vote who hasn't resorted to name calling. I'm no better and I admit it, but I've at least tried to make and keep the peace several times. I doubt you can make the same claim.

This thread derailed a long time ago and has turned into nothing more than my idea is better than your idea. No fact, no matter how right or wrong is going to sway anyone's opinion here.

I quit trying and started calling out people. Sue me.

Allyah wrote: »

methjester wrote: »

Allyah wrote: »

methjester wrote: »

Pendrillion wrote: »

I would say yes if people couldn't be taken advantage of... In any way. Downside all systems can be exploited. We can see that. So the question is redundant. The Auction House would have Advantages. I prefer to see my "Dealers" Avatar and Trade. Or even agree to a COD in a private whisp. It makes me feel more in control of my transactions.

Auctionhouse provides easier access but also much more anonymity. But I kind of RP often so the classical AH I know from other games kind of turn down the immersion.

My personal decisions and opinion: NO AUCTIONHOUSE...

I will be honest. You have a personal preference and you stated it. You didn't list bizarre and nonfactual things that you claim will occur. You didn't resort to personal attacks.

For all of that you are one of the few people in the no vote who's opinion I respect. If only all of the people who share your opinion came across as reasonable as yourself.

Insults others while praising someone for not resorting to personal attacks. Truly intelligent. Also, hi pot.

My point proven. I have yet to see anyone else in the no vote who hasn't resorted to name calling. I'm no better and I admit it, but I've at least tried to make and keep the peace several times. I doubt you can make the same claim.

This thread derailed a long time ago and has turned into nothing more than my idea is better than your idea. No fact, no matter how right or wrong is going to sway anyone's opinion here.

I quit trying and started calling out people. Sue me.

Again, you didn't prove anything. You were hypocritical in what you wrote and I pointed it out. And I can make the same claim about trying to make and keep peace, your Moral Superiorityness.

"I did wrong and I admit it, but at least I didn't do it everytime! But I bet you did! But it's really no big deal. Sue me." The tone of your post.

If your last comment was an admission of wrong-doing, it wasn't a very good one. I have participated in personal attacks and I was wrong for doing so. <-- That's how you make an admission of guilt.

I'm not trying to come off as morally superior. I'm saying this thread is never going to be resolved and trying to do so by convincing anyone via their point of view is a waste of bandwidth.

I seriously respect that guy. He came, said his peace and didn't claim an auction house would end the game as we know it and didn't flame my opinion on the way out the door.

Feel free to go on the attack again but I will point out once more that this thread devolved well past the point of no return and any attempt for me, or anyone to justify the need for or against an auction house will not sway this argument.

Am I any better?? Not by a longshot. I just pointed out one beacon of hope for civility in this thread and blammo, I'm the bad guy.

methjester wrote: »

Allyah wrote: »

methjester wrote: »

Allyah wrote: »

methjester wrote: »

Pendrillion wrote: »

I would say yes if people couldn't be taken advantage of... In any way. Downside all systems can be exploited. We can see that. So the question is redundant. The Auction House would have Advantages. I prefer to see my "Dealers" Avatar and Trade. Or even agree to a COD in a private whisp. It makes me feel more in control of my transactions.

Auctionhouse provides easier access but also much more anonymity. But I kind of RP often so the classical AH I know from other games kind of turn down the immersion.

My personal decisions and opinion: NO AUCTIONHOUSE...

I will be honest. You have a personal preference and you stated it. You didn't list bizarre and nonfactual things that you claim will occur. You didn't resort to personal attacks.

For all of that you are one of the few people in the no vote who's opinion I respect. If only all of the people who share your opinion came across as reasonable as yourself.

Insults others while praising someone for not resorting to personal attacks. Truly intelligent. Also, hi pot.

My point proven. I have yet to see anyone else in the no vote who hasn't resorted to name calling. I'm no better and I admit it, but I've at least tried to make and keep the peace several times. I doubt you can make the same claim.

This thread derailed a long time ago and has turned into nothing more than my idea is better than your idea. No fact, no matter how right or wrong is going to sway anyone's opinion here.

I quit trying and started calling out people. Sue me.

Again, you didn't prove anything. You were hypocritical in what you wrote and I pointed it out. And I can make the same claim about trying to make and keep peace, your Moral Superiorityness.

"I did wrong and I admit it, but at least I didn't do it everytime! But I bet you did! But it's really no big deal. Sue me." The tone of your post.

If your last comment was an admission of wrong-doing, it wasn't a very good one. I have participated in personal attacks and I was wrong for doing so. <-- That's how you make an admission of guilt.

I'm not trying to come off as morally superior. I'm saying this thread is never going to be resolved and trying to do so by convincing anyone via their point of view is a waste of bandwidth.

I seriously respect that guy. He came, said his peace and didn't claim an auction house would end the game as we know it and didn't flame my opinion on the way out the door.

Feel free to go on the attack again but I will point out once more that this thread devolved well past the point of no return and any attempt for me, or anyone to justify the need for or against an auction house will not sway this argument.

Am I any better?? Not by a longshot. I just pointed out one beacon of hope for civility in this thread and blammo, I'm the bad guy.

Contrary to what you believe, I was not attacking you in that post. You may have not been meaning to come of as someone who thinks they are morally superior, but you did. (Although some people may disagree.)

That this thread will never be resolved has always been the case. The problem is not people coming together to discuss their opinions but coming to a discussion with the mindset that their opinion is the right one and the unwillingness to see anyone else's point of view.

But stop playing the victim. You did flame your opinion out the door. However, with that opinion, you may not have been intending to harm anyone , so I'll give you that.

I chose to answer no to the question as it is too vague to my liking.

By definition an auction house is not a market place.

If the original poster had in mind a system closer to the EVE Online market system I might have voted yes.
A system with range limit so you can actually play the market (e.g., move goods from one place to another for profit, find goods that are not available in a said region and move it to the bigger hubs etc...)

I am a big fan of the economical game in MMOs, when it exists, but it requires a lot more than simply picking up ores and flowers on the ground and then sending all your goods to a level 3 character in the starting area.

I have seen a valid point in the other posts about the whole "WTS spam" in the zone chat. While I do agree on the intention, I know full well it will not stop anyone from trying to sell directly to player threw the chat system, it does not prevent people from doing so in any other game that has an auction house or a market system, some players just want to sell things quick and that is the reason why they do so.

While in essence I am extremely in favor of a market system, it would require a lot more work than merely implementing a place in towns that let you put your goods for sell and forget about it until it is sold.

A good market system is more than a commodity to sell goods to anyone without having to do anything, at least that is my opinion.
Again, a good market system is directly tied to a very complex, don't read me wrong this does not mean hard, and engaging crafting system.

SunfireKnight86 wrote: »

Brennan wrote: »

SunfireKnight86 wrote: »

Brennan wrote: »

Dyvim wrote: »

SunfireKnight86 wrote: »

1) I am rich.
2) As I've stated before, I want what's best for this game in the long run. I'd like to see it grow. Taking out something that is all but taken for granted in an MMO isn't good for it no matter how you slice it. Look at the numbers on this poll if you don't believe me.
3) It's not that it's hard to get rich, it's just a pain in the ass to connect a seller to a buyer right now. (Or vice versa of course)

You and I are just kinda going in circles at this point, Brennan. I feel like you're just being obstinate for the hell of it.

That is possible, but I think he honestly just doesn't have the background, experience or education to get it. That isn't being mean, it is my honest assessment after reading his posts in thread after thread. He always falls back on the same thing, instead of trying to defend what he posts when his errors are pointed out....and that fallback is "this brand new MMO, which will change over time, doesn't have it now, therefore it must be indicative of some obtuse design brilliance - that no one can logically defend and that the devs can't explain...Change is bad, although MMOs inherently change...etc."

That is the best he has got, while everything from10+ years of AHs in MMOs to basic economic law and market fundamentals can be damned as far as he is concerned, if he understood them....

I have tried to engage in this conversation. I have stated my opinion and you, Methjester, et al. have only hurled childish insults towards myself and every other individual that is against an AH. I would be happy to quote those insults not just in this thread @Dyvim‌ but also in the two Inventory Management threads you started and engaged in.

If you want to limit the discussion to only people that have a degree in Business, Finance, and/or Economics, you're going to have a one-sided, lonely discussion. My degree is in Computer Science but that is totally irrelevant to this. The only qualification to engage in this discussion or any other is that I pay for and play Elder Scrolls Online.

You want to limit people's choices. Everyone must trade in a centralized market. If you don't like the price, **** off - One Store to Rule Them All. There is no comparison shopping. There is no choice.

I don't - I want to choose whether I buy Dwarven Oil from Store 2 for 200g or Store 3 for 500g. Some people want to buy it from Store 2 and sell it in Store 3. Some people have extra Dwarven Oil laying around and your belief is they should sell it for 200g and not 500g. You want everyone to buy from Store 1 and only Store 1. That is not a good thing - in my uneducated, uninformed. character and intelligence lacking, non-Business, Finance, Economics degree having opinion.

How does having an AH limit where you can trade? You can still use /trade or /zone, and you can still trade with guild members. This isn't all about you. If you want to overpay or make it a big production of trading without an AH this will still be available to you.

Unless you're saying that everyone would use an AH if they had one. That might kind of *** all over your argument though, huh?

If there were a global AH everyone would likely use it.

Which makes the "member of up to 5 guilds" somewhat obsolete and no longer unique to the game.

But just because everyone uses something doesn't make it good or the right thing to do in this game.

Tell you what, go over to the game forum of any other MMO and start ranting about how you can only be in one guild at a time - start making multiple threads about how the devs are just lazy - "They do it in ESO - it needs to be done here!" Come back and tell me what kind of response you get.

You're trying to change the subject, and I'm done talking to you. By your own admission you are against something everyone would love to have because you feel you know better based on nothing but your own admittedly limited knowledge on the subject.

Wrong.

Avidus wrote: »

The current system allows for more control, more manipulation and more depth to the economy.
It is far superior for players who like to manipulate the market, it is also significantly more realistic than a one stop shop.

This is exactly why I hate this system. Sure, I game it to make gold. But, it makes selling and buying such a pain in the donkey.

Avidus wrote: »

alphawolph wrote: »

This is exactly why I hate this system. Sure, I game it to make gold. But, it makes selling and buying such a pain in the donkey.

But by this logic you would have them remove a level of depth for those who enjoy this type of game play so that it is simply more convenient for you.

Yeah, you say that like it's a bad thing. I will always look after my own self interest before anyone else. Yes, I do want it more convenient for me. My argument has always been "I" want one (Even though 60% of the people in this thread do want one).

The opposite is also true the minority wants to keep a feature that the majority doesn't like. Why? Because you are so altruistic? You just like it this way. Well, I like it the other way.

Brennan wrote: »

alphawolph wrote: »

Avidus wrote: »

alphawolph wrote: »

This is exactly why I hate this system. Sure, I game it to make gold. But, it makes selling and buying such a pain in the donkey.

But by this logic you would have them remove a level of depth for those who enjoy this type of game play so that it is simply more convenient for you.

Yeah, you say that like it's a bad thing. I will always look after my own self interest before anyone else. Yes, I do want it more convenient for me. My argument has always been "I" want one (Even though 60% of the people in this thread do want one).

The opposite is also true the minority wants to keep a feature that the majority doesn't like. Why? Because you are so altruistic? You just like it this way. Well, I like it the other way.

And that is what I've been saying this whole time - there is no other way in this game.

Honestly, you all act like someone stole your sweetroll - like someone took something from you by saying things like, "It's a staple of MMOs!" and "AUCTION HOUSE NOW! ACCEPT NO SUBSTITUTE!!"

No one has taken anything from you. This game has never had an Auction House so it wasn't taken from you - you never had it.

Quick on the attack today Brennan. Did I say anything was taken from me? I just want one added to the game.

I have the most simple argument in the world, that you can not refute. " I want one added to the game." I do, nothing will change that.

Avidus wrote: »

I voted against having an Auction House. I could write a book on why.
But ill make it brief.
The current system allows for more control, more manipulation and more depth to the economy.
It is far superior for players who like to manipulate the market, it is also significantly more realistic than a one stop shop.

Uh, why do we WANT??? to make it easier for players to manipulate the market??? Thanks for making the pro AH case for us. Again.

Pay attention @Brennan‌, this is what I have been trying to get you to understand for a week or so...small markets, with poor information facilities are much easier to manipulate and screw people with...

Dyvim wrote: »

Avidus wrote: »

I voted against having an Auction House. I could write a book on why.
But ill make it brief.
The current system allows for more control, more manipulation and more depth to the economy.
It is far superior for players who like to manipulate the market, it is also significantly more realistic than a one stop shop.

Uh, why do we WANT??? to make it easier for players to manipulate the market??? Thanks for making the pro AH case for us. Again.

Pay attention @Brennan‌, this is what I have been trying to get you to understand for a week or so...small markets, with poor information facilities are much easier to manipulate and screw people with...

Failed logic again. It doesn't make your case for you. That is his opinion on what it does. And if it does, in fact, allow for what he says it allows, that does not mean that it is a bad thing. Some people like playing games that allow for manipulation and depth.
To make it simple for you:
someone stating an opinion does not = proof of something
players manipulating the market does not = bad just because you don't like it

meglon978ub17_ESO wrote: »

Brennan wrote: »

Opioid wrote: »

Brennan wrote: »

There is no AH in ESO either. I don't get why people don't understand that.

People understand it perfectly. Understanding it doesn't equate to agreeing with it.

You agree to it when you accept the subscription cost.

This game does not have an AH.
This was a design decision by the developer/publisher.
If you don't agree with that design decision, stop paying the subscription.

I want to do all crafting professions on one character.
Blizzard made a design decision to only let me do two.
I don't agree so I don't pay for a WoW subscription anymore.

Seems pretty simple to me.

In that case, you agreed to the game the way it was when it launched.... including all the bugs that were present. There is absolutely no reason what-so-ever for ZOE to fix anything, period.... because you agreed that they game was as it is and always should be.

Seriously, listen to yourself sometime.

People are here because they like the game, and they're putting in an effort to give ideas to make it better. You, on the other hand, are not. The guild AH idea was novel, and interesting... and it's a failure; too few people, both buyers and sellers... too limited. I get it, you want to make bank off what you sell... but stifling competition is a fairly absurd way to go about it.

Except Brennan is talking about a feature that isn't broken and you are comparing that to features that are broken. Not the same thing. Also, Brennan already has mentioned ideas. So... you're wrong.