Does raising issues here actually influence development?

SilverBride · September 27

Hide shoulders.

It took a very long time but it happened.

React · September 27

I wrote a pretty detailed explanation of why all melee range abilities needed their ranges boosted from 5m to 7m, and they then made that change one or two patches later.

Wish they'd communicate on topics though, especially those that get brought up over and over again. Things like cross healing in pvp, unfinished hybridization, stuck in combat, etc. It's so frustrating to have the same conversations over and over again for years without ever hearing the studio's perspective.

Xandreia_ · September 27

ive found the most useless requests get accepted and pushed through while things like lag and bugs get pushed back

Syldras · September 27

Xandreia_ wrote: »

ive found the most useless requests get accepted and pushed through while things like lag and bugs get pushed back

I think often it's a question of efforts. Easier changes are done fast and might help to gain sympathy points. Which isn't even wrong, I mean, I too value it if I see that our criticism is noticed. But I also expect that more difficult bugs are tackled within some time. Especially since we officially lost content dlcs for what they promised would be bug-fixing and quality updates.

Xandreia_ · September 27

Syldras wrote: »

Xandreia_ wrote: »

ive found the most useless requests get accepted and pushed through while things like lag and bugs get pushed back

I think often it's a question of efforts. Easier changes are done fast and might help to gain sympathy points. Which isn't even wrong, I mean, I too value it if I see that our criticism is noticed. But I also expect that more difficult bugs are tackled within some time. Especially since we officially lost content dlcs for what they promised would be bug-fixing and quality updates.

thing is, im yet to see any significant bug fixes. we had an entire year of performance that didnt do anything, im not sure how big the engineer team is but its surely big and qualified enough to atleast set the ball rolling and start on fixes

FlopsyPrince · September 28

moderatelyfatman wrote: »

dk_dunkirk wrote: »

As a developer myself, I've defended ZOS over comments like "they don't care" or "they're too stupid" to make changes which people request. Every non-trivial software project quickly develops a backlog of things that will simply never be gotten to, due to resource constraints, and I'm sure ESO is no different. However, there are many topics here which people consider make-or-break, and they seem to persist, while ZOS continues a steady influx of new content and new monetization efforts. Can anyone point to something that has changed about ESO thanks to forum discussion which was received well by the majority of the players? Or is this just safe place to vent?

You can generally divide this into two categories.

Quality of Life improvements generally get made in response to repeated suggests of the community, although the ZOS devs can be a bit slow with it at times. You can see that the devs in charge are generally concerned with making improvements in the game and this aspect of the game has improved steadily over the past few years. Case in point: the armory, simplification of chromium platings, curated drops and the stickerbook.

Combat Improvements are practically non-existant as the devs in charge of this routinely release broken sets, nerf class skills to the point of uselessness and try to standardise performance based around the parsing dummy and not in actual content. Responses to the community are typically ignored or adjustments are made which so poorly implemented that they create a problem worst than the original one. I think most players agree that there has been no overall improvement in ESO combat (either PvE or PvP) over the past few years: instead, the game has gone backwards with classes now relying on proc-sets rather than skills to do a significant portion of their damage.

Some things are better, but I don't see the focus on that you see. The quality of life items earlier this year were not impressive at all.

Some of us have been asking for simpler Survey collection for years, yet we haven't heard a peep on that one, as one glaring example.

When they made a single Cyrodiil repair item, they didn't replace all the ones we have in our bags now. Not a horrid cost, but surely someone thought of that ahead of time.

FlopsyPrince · September 28

I have noted before that if they did one significant quality of life improvement (for most of us, not a niche) per quarter we would have a pile of them by now.

Look at the top addons and integrate as much of those into the game as you can, for example. Things that make it easier to run around and get things done.

I know someone argues with me on just about every proposal I have made, but I didn't connect anything the devs did to those proposals. They didn't have to do them all of course, but just interacting would have helped a LOT.

kargen27 · September 28

An alliance locked campaign was created because the players asked. Going way way back all containers used to be like treasure chests. Only one player got the goodies. That might have been a change coming anyway but wow did people complain before we could all get an apple out of the basket.
The sticker book and group finder are both things added to the game to try and solve an issue many players were seeing. Were they both coming anyway? Maybe, but maybe all the players wanting to lessen the grind for gear got the sticker book bumped up on the priority list? Same with the group finder. It might not be exactly what players were hoping but it is an effort to give the players something that will make the game better for them.

FlopsyPrince · September 28

kargen27 wrote: »

An alliance locked campaign was created because the players asked. Going way way back all containers used to be like treasure chests. Only one player got the goodies. That might have been a change coming anyway but wow did people complain before we could all get an apple out of the basket.
The sticker book and group finder are both things added to the game to try and solve an issue many players were seeing. Were they both coming anyway? Maybe, but maybe all the players wanting to lessen the grind for gear got the sticker book bumped up on the priority list? Same with the group finder. It might not be exactly what players were hoping but it is an effort to give the players something that will make the game better for them.

The key question is if ZOS devs listen to players. Not if some things they develop are good.

Ultimately though the devs don't decide what gets implemented, ZOS management does. No indication of them actively listening to desires posted here. We may get some good things sometimes, but many things are ignored. No one was asking for a card game, for one clear example. (At least I never saw a post in favor of it prior to it being announced/added.)

Rowjoh · September 28

Muizer wrote: »

dk_dunkirk wrote: »

As a developer myself, I've defended ZOS over comments like "they don't care" or "they're too stupid" to make changes which people request. Every non-trivial software project quickly develops a backlog of things that will simply never be gotten to, due to resource constraints, and I'm sure ESO is no different. However, there are many topics here which people consider make-or-break, and they seem to persist, while ZOS continues a steady influx of new content and new monetization efforts. Can anyone point to something that has changed about ESO thanks to forum discussion which was received well by the majority of the players? Or is this just safe place to vent?

I think your best shot at getting a written suggestion in game is to hope a dev reads it, forgets it and one day wakes up with it believing it was their own brilliant idea

Def a thing. I once asked for the containers surrounding the area where you turn in crating writs not to be stealable as I and a lot of others were always accidently looting them then getting held up and inconvenienced up by the justice system.

Years later I woke up one day and found this had been implemented !

Supreme_Atromancer · September 28

I bet they read The Forums and Reddit a lot. If I was a dev pouring all my heart and soul into a game, I wouldn't be able to resist.

At the same time, I'd think developers must know that the opinions here don't necessarily represent the whole community. They have things- and people- they can't just conveniently forget like forum posters can.

I can't count the number of times over the years that I've read Forum/Reddit posts say that EVERYONE feels "ABC", and that this change is going to be terrible for EVERYONE because "XYZ" and I don't feel the same, nor do many of the people I've known.

Not that people don't sometimes have some good points to make.

SilverBride · September 28

FlopsyPrince wrote: »

No one was asking for a card game, for one clear example. (At least I never saw a post in favor of it prior to it being announced/added.)

Players were asking for a card game and other tavern games. There are multiple threads requesting this feature for several years.

TaSheen · September 28

SilverBride wrote: »

FlopsyPrince wrote: »

No one was asking for a card game, for one clear example. (At least I never saw a post in favor of it prior to it being announced/added.)

Players were asking for a card game and other tavern games. There are multiple threads requesting this feature for several years.

I remember various posts, more about "tavern" games, many of them wanting some of the in-game game boards made into games. I don't specifically remember requests for "card games" (other than someone wanting "in game poker with in game gambling"), but others have said they remember them, so they're probably out there somewhere. I'm just not into messing with the mess that is the search function to go looking.

Syldras · September 28

TaSheen wrote: »

I remember various posts, more about "tavern" games, many of them wanting some of the in-game game boards made into games. I don't specifically remember requests for "card games" (other than someone wanting "in game poker with in game gambling"), but others have said they remember them, so they're probably out there somewhere. I'm just not into messing with the mess that is the search function to go looking.

There were requests for tavern games or for making the game furnishings that already exist playable, but I had the impression that players wanted it included into the game world more - as in player characters visibly sitting in chairs and playing, and maybe even being able to watch others play.

Also, I think, there were no requests to make it a long questline and to have a leaderboard, including achievements and rewards attached to it. People just wanted some nice, not too complicated, minigame to play for a few minutes every now and then.

AngryPenguin · September 28

One recent QoL change they made that I really liked, wasn't in the patch notes, and I haven't seen anyone else mention it is the game now remembers the last guild bank you visited and automatically links you to that guild bank the next time you choose to use guild banks. Maybe it's an add on I'm using, but I think it was an in game change. People requested the option to rearrange their guild banks like we can our toons, and this isn't that unfortunately, but it's still more convenient now than it was before this change.

Still, ZOS ignores the most requested and annoying change requests, most notably the jabs animation needs to be reverted.

barney2525 · September 28

Does raising issues influence development. Haven't seen this to be true.

On the upside, raising issues Can get you banned from the list

FlopsyPrince · September 28

SilverBride wrote: »

FlopsyPrince wrote: »

No one was asking for a card game, for one clear example. (At least I never saw a post in favor of it prior to it being announced/added.)

Players were asking for a card game and other tavern games. There are multiple threads requesting this feature for several years.

Then I was wrong. But I still never saw those threads.

Though "tavern activities" are very different than ToT. ToT is not something you would go into an in-game tavern to play, so it does not fill the need you note even if the same people like it.

EDIT: I posted this before reading the other replies. I agree that ToT is not really a "tavern game".

spartaxoxo · September 28

Here are some examples of people requesting a card game/more mini-games prior to Tales of Tribute being launched.

Krossus wrote: »

For those who've played "Gwent" in Witcher 3, what do you think of a similar game in the local taverns in this game? I would love to be able to sit across the table with other players and collect cards, bet gold or items equivalent to the current pot's value, in this game. I think it would bring another social element to the game and you'd see more usage out of the taverns. Just an opinion.

Sausage wrote: »

We can hope newly announced Elder Scroll Legends is coming to ESO too. As far I know its F2P card game, so why not to integrate it with ESO, even with future ES titles. I again think one should be able to play wherever he wants.

burdocklightbringercub18_ESO wrote: »

What about Spikeball? (See Tales of Tamriel, Vol 1) or maybe a fantasy card game similar to Hearthstone or Gwent? What about something like Champions of Norrath? How about chicken races? Festivals or Circus that travel around Tamriel in real time and you can check notice boards with times/dates they would be in certain areas? Anything to have the world come alive more! Maybe add children in with the circus and have special circus quests/achievements and feats of strength? Any other suggestions? /discuss.

And this one wasn't suggesting a card game but is an example of the types of rewards people wanted to see outside of small bets.

Gidorick wrote: »

I would like it if there were mini games that could award us resources. These wouldn't take the place of the gathering mechanics we currently have but would offer another way to gather resources with a greater reward, depending on how well you perform in the mini game.

Other games like archery challenges, frog races, pet training & fighting, and a robust "fish anywhere" mini game would also be appreciated.

kargen27 · September 28

FlopsyPrince wrote: »

kargen27 wrote: »

An alliance locked campaign was created because the players asked. Going way way back all containers used to be like treasure chests. Only one player got the goodies. That might have been a change coming anyway but wow did people complain before we could all get an apple out of the basket.
The sticker book and group finder are both things added to the game to try and solve an issue many players were seeing. Were they both coming anyway? Maybe, but maybe all the players wanting to lessen the grind for gear got the sticker book bumped up on the priority list? Same with the group finder. It might not be exactly what players were hoping but it is an effort to give the players something that will make the game better for them.

The key question is if ZOS devs listen to players. Not if some things they develop are good.

Ultimately though the devs don't decide what gets implemented, ZOS management does. No indication of them actively listening to desires posted here. We may get some good things sometimes, but many things are ignored. No one was asking for a card game, for one clear example. (At least I never saw a post in favor of it prior to it being announced/added.)

and my answer was those things happened after players asked for them. See how that works? And yes people were asking for a card game. They were also asking for other mini games that could be played in the taverns.

AlnilamE · September 28

Yes, it does. There have been lots of things implemented over the years that were raised in the forums.

Just not 100% of it (especially since some things are contradictory requests).

And while the devs don't read the forums, I'm sure the community managers do write up reports of things we are requesting/discussing and then it's up to the management team to decide what gets prioritized.

FlopsyPrince · September 28

kargen27 wrote: »

FlopsyPrince wrote: »

kargen27 wrote: »

An alliance locked campaign was created because the players asked. Going way way back all containers used to be like treasure chests. Only one player got the goodies. That might have been a change coming anyway but wow did people complain before we could all get an apple out of the basket.
The sticker book and group finder are both things added to the game to try and solve an issue many players were seeing. Were they both coming anyway? Maybe, but maybe all the players wanting to lessen the grind for gear got the sticker book bumped up on the priority list? Same with the group finder. It might not be exactly what players were hoping but it is an effort to give the players something that will make the game better for them.

The key question is if ZOS devs listen to players. Not if some things they develop are good.

Ultimately though the devs don't decide what gets implemented, ZOS management does. No indication of them actively listening to desires posted here. We may get some good things sometimes, but many things are ignored. No one was asking for a card game, for one clear example. (At least I never saw a post in favor of it prior to it being announced/added.)

and my answer was those things happened after players asked for them. See how that works? And yes people were asking for a card game. They were also asking for other mini games that could be played in the taverns.

Correlation does not prove causation.

FlopsyPrince · September 28

AlnilamE wrote: »

Yes, it does. There have been lots of things implemented over the years that were raised in the forums.

Just not 100% of it (especially since some things are contradictory requests).

And while the devs don't read the forums, I'm sure the community managers do write up reports of things we are requesting/discussing and then it's up to the management team to decide what gets prioritized.

What firm evidence do you have that this has ever happened? Perhaps it does, but nothing I have seen clearly indicates that.

AlnilamE · September 28

FlopsyPrince wrote: »

AlnilamE wrote: »

Yes, it does. There have been lots of things implemented over the years that were raised in the forums.

Just not 100% of it (especially since some things are contradictory requests).

And while the devs don't read the forums, I'm sure the community managers do write up reports of things we are requesting/discussing and then it's up to the management team to decide what gets prioritized.

What firm evidence do you have that this has ever happened? Perhaps it does, but nothing I have seen clearly indicates that.

Which part? Changes requested by players?
From memory:
- Guild traders so that guild stores would be public outside of Cyrodiil.
- A crafting materials bag
- A dungeon finder
- Removal of Veteran levels
- One Tamriel
- Player housing
- Dragons
- UI improvements to the guild store interface
- Thieves' Guild and Dark Brotherhood
- Trait Transmutation
- The Sticker Book
- Bankable Style Pages
- Companions
- Fishing node type being identified in the UI
- Keen eye for chests
- (In the next update): Keen eye for Heavy Sacks
- Daily Crafting Writs
- Jewelry Crafting
- Scribing
- Skills that scale off your max resource
- Acount-wide achievements (as much as I hate it)
- Outfitting/dyes
- Armory
- Activity Finder

You can find evidence by either searching the forums for the term and limit the date to before it was implemented, or you can watch the announcement streams as they often mention something is being implemented because of player feedback.

But as I said, not everything. I'm still waiting for stackable treasure maps, for example. And the guild store UI could use more improvements still.

spartaxoxo · September 28

FlopsyPrince wrote: »

AlnilamE wrote: »

Yes, it does. There have been lots of things implemented over the years that were raised in the forums.

Just not 100% of it (especially since some things are contradictory requests).

And while the devs don't read the forums, I'm sure the community managers do write up reports of things we are requesting/discussing and then it's up to the management team to decide what gets prioritized.

What firm evidence do you have that this has ever happened? Perhaps it does, but nothing I have seen clearly indicates that.

I linked an example in this thread, including ZOS being very explicit about saying it was due to feedback: male companions.

FlopsyPrince · September 29

spartaxoxo wrote: »

FlopsyPrince wrote: »

AlnilamE wrote: »

Yes, it does. There have been lots of things implemented over the years that were raised in the forums.

Just not 100% of it (especially since some things are contradictory requests).

And while the devs don't read the forums, I'm sure the community managers do write up reports of things we are requesting/discussing and then it's up to the management team to decide what gets prioritized.

What firm evidence do you have that this has ever happened? Perhaps it does, but nothing I have seen clearly indicates that.

I linked an example in this thread, including ZOS being very explicit about saying it was due to feedback: male companions.

This would be the only clear one. The others just happened without any direct ZOS comments so any connections is uncertain.

As I noted, correlation does not prove causation.

That said, I wish I saw more evidence of responding to the players. That is hard to believe when so many PTS errors were noted and came out anyway, for example.

Though anyone is free to assert something here further. I have still not seen firm evidence. Note that a comment from @ZOS_Kevin or one of the other ZOS employees could clarify this, at least to assert the claim with more ZOS support.

katanagirl1 · September 29

FlopsyPrince wrote: »

spartaxoxo wrote: »

FlopsyPrince wrote: »

AlnilamE wrote: »

Yes, it does. There have been lots of things implemented over the years that were raised in the forums.

Just not 100% of it (especially since some things are contradictory requests).

And while the devs don't read the forums, I'm sure the community managers do write up reports of things we are requesting/discussing and then it's up to the management team to decide what gets prioritized.

What firm evidence do you have that this has ever happened? Perhaps it does, but nothing I have seen clearly indicates that.

I linked an example in this thread, including ZOS being very explicit about saying it was due to feedback: male companions.

This would be the only clear one. The others just happened without any direct ZOS comments so any connections is uncertain.

As I noted, correlation does not prove causation.

That said, I wish I saw more evidence of responding to the players. That is hard to believe when so many PTS errors were noted and came out anyway, for example.

Though anyone is free to assert something here further. I have still not seen firm evidence. Note that a comment from @ZOS_Kevin or one of the other ZOS employees could clarify this, at least to assert the claim with more ZOS support.

The exact same thing players requested was implemented and it was pure coincidence? In multiple instances? Highly unlikely.

LikiLoki · September 29

Over the years of watching the forum, I have come to the conclusion that ZoS employees read it and take into account some of the statements. The problem is that we don't see it, except for the posts of one or two employees and the moderator. They need to think about a special label-a reaction that this topic was interesting, which they will put.
Even if the problem has not been solved, or the game proposal has not been implemented, it is nice to see that your message has been marked as worthy of attention.

Erickson9610 · September 29

If ZOS reverted every change ever complained about, they'd make no progress developing this game.

People will disagree over everything — take these two recent nerfs for example:

People complained about Undeath being too strong in PvP. It was nerfed from 30% Damage Reduction at Stage 3 to 10% Damage Reduction at Stage 1. People complained about the nerf, and it was buffed to 15% Damage Reduction at Stage 3.
People complained about Howl of Agony being too strong in PvP. It was nerfed, its bonus damage dropping from 25% bonus damage with 100% maximum uptime down to 20% maximum bonus damage at 31.82% maximum uptime, due to the Off Balance cooldown per target. People complained about the nerf, and no change was made.

There will always be people complaining about everything. You can't satisfy both the people who call for nerfs and the people who call for the nerfs to be reverted. Some people want new content in the form of new zones, item sets, Companions, Antiquities, Grimoires, 4-man Dungeons, Chapter features, and so on — while others don't.

ZOS will never satisfy everyone, so they have to make some kind of progress for the longevity of this game by making some kind of change, even if it upsets one crowd while pleasing another.