Does raising issues here actually influence development?

dk_dunkirk

As a developer myself, I've defended ZOS over comments like "they don't care" or "they're too stupid" to make changes which people request. Every non-trivial software project quickly develops a backlog of things that will simply never be gotten to, due to resource constraints, and I'm sure ESO is no different. However, there are many topics here which people consider make-or-break, and they seem to persist, while ZOS continues a steady influx of new content and new monetization efforts. Can anyone point to something that has changed about ESO thanks to forum discussion which was received well by the majority of the players? Or is this just safe place to vent?

Syldras

They fixed Ithelia's teeth and eyes

Aurielle

Maybe? I suggested this in 2018: https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/441180/suggestion-attunable-crafting-stations-2-0

You’re all welcome.

Pelanora

They did have a look at some classes after a lot of complaints but they've not nailed it at all. AT all.

reazea

Only if it's something ZOS has already decided to do or not do. Think about the jabs animation and how that issue has been dealt with and there's your answer.

virtus753

dk_dunkirk wrote: »

As a developer myself, I've defended ZOS over comments like "they don't care" or "they're too stupid" to make changes which people request. Every non-trivial software project quickly develops a backlog of things that will simply never be gotten to, due to resource constraints, and I'm sure ESO is no different. However, there are many topics here which people consider make-or-break, and they seem to persist, while ZOS continues a steady influx of new content and new monetization efforts. Can anyone point to something that has changed about ESO thanks to forum discussion which was received well by the majority of the players? Or is this just safe place to vent?

When Luminous Ink was first tested on the PTS, several of us tested the drop rate on enemies and on resource nodes.

There was a request for three things:

-That Ink drop more frequently from enemies - ZOS did this during the same PTS cycle (although they didn't check the boss drop rate, which was bugged when the udpate went live)

-That Ink be eligible for Plentiful Harvest procs - ZOS added this during the same PTS cycle (although only from resource nodes, even though PH can proc on certain other items from monsters)

-That Ink drop from surveys as well as from non-survey nodes - ZOS did not acknowledge this request at all. Recently it has begun to drop from surveys (at least blacksmithing ones), but that was not included the patch notes and may well be a bug.

So yes, sometimes feedback does lead directly to changes. But not all feedback does, especially if it isn't consistent with ZOS's own vision. Sometimes it takes a long time for a variety of reasons. I understand how those who contribute suggestions and feedback often feel unheard. Not all of our requests are even acknowledged, much less granted. At the same time, it's also not the case that absolutely everything is ignored.

LesserCircle

They usually don't in my opinion, if they do they were already thinking about it, and they never rollback changes even if they're bad, grim focus permaglow, templar jabs..

TaSheen

In a few cases, it seems it might. But I'm more inclined to think it's coincidental.

virtus753 wrote: »

-That Ink drop from surveys as well as from non-survey nodes - ZOS did not acknowledge this request at all. Recently it has begun to drop from surveys (at least blacksmithing ones), but that was not included the patch notes and may well be a bug.

I got one from a woodworking and another from a JC survey yesterday.

LadyGP

dk_dunkirk wrote: »

As a developer myself, I've defended ZOS over comments like "they don't care" or "they're too stupid" to make changes which people request. Every non-trivial software project quickly develops a backlog of things that will simply never be gotten to, due to resource constraints, and I'm sure ESO is no different. However, there are many topics here which people consider make-or-break, and they seem to persist, while ZOS continues a steady influx of new content and new monetization efforts. Can anyone point to something that has changed about ESO thanks to forum discussion which was received well by the majority of the players? Or is this just safe place to vent?

As a developer myself I agree with this.

darvaria

I definitely see some nerfs after a lot of qq on forums. Certain ball groups constantly complained about Azureblight and it gets a nerf? So I think there is some influence. I will NEVER believe this isn't on PTS because of forum pressure. ZOS: Prove me wrong and circular file this nerf.

Oakensoul? Yeah a lot of forum qq and a nerf followed.

Sloads?

Wardens?

Mara's Balm?

Seems like every class and gear set gets a nerf after a lot of forum qq. ZOS may not fix things like "Stuck in Combat" or population balance at Cyrodiil , but they will swing that nerf bat quickly, if there is a lot of forum qq.

Northwold

The changes to bring back the main quest for new players certainly tally with some very, very detailed discussions about how horrible the new player experience is and how they really need to start new players with the main quest.

Clean slate housing locations seem to have been a response to players asking for places to do their own builds. (On housing, someone asked for a spotlight and, sure enough, within a year a spotlight turned up on the luxury furnisher.)

Infinite Archive and Tales of Tribute both seem to have been designed to appeal to people asking for non-quest based enduring gameplay forms.

Set collection (I can't remember the word off the top of my head).

There was plenty of discussion about how the year long stories had seen writing quality plunge off a cliff although, yes, people aren't happy with what replaced it (and ZOS themselves probably noticed the deteriorating quality anyway).

There are a fair few.

But also note that some things people request on here directly contradict what (more) people request on other social media outlets, probably because this forum skews to the hardcore players and is not always representative.

Stafford197

The general rule is that our feedback does matter…. as long as it does not pertain to the Combat Team:

When a small bug is pointed out, it is often patched within the year. Ex: Fixes for when unique item drops are associated with the incorrect set, or trees do not properly clip through the map, etc. This is why patch notes often contain tons of super tiny fixes.

The truth is that ZOS has a vision for the game. This is fine when teams such as those in Zone Design, Quest Stories, Cosmetics, etc are pretty much doing fine. However, it is a particular issue with the Combat Team since their vision doesn’t align well with pretty much anyone who cares about combat in ESO. We have a long list of abhorrent changes, but more recent ones would be Templar jabs animation change+huge nerf, Necromancer Stalking Blastbones removal, and even this patch now there is the gutting of Arctic Blast into a weird ability no one wants.

And considering Combat is extremely important…. I don’t think anyone is expecting the game to be perfect. But there’s no reason for it to be so poorly handled that most people consider the combat in this game to be a complete joke.

spartaxoxo

Yes, here's some likely examples...

Right now on the PTS we have changes to Arcanists and Azureblight following complaints about them.

Console players have requested add-ons be made base game for a while now. Home Tours and the Armory Assistant are ZOS's base game implementation of some functionality provided by add-ons as a result of this request.

Azandar and Sharp are men because ZOS listened to the request for more equal representation of genders with companions. They literally touted this.

Alongside those same lines we have female tribute patrons (Almalexia and Alessia) after complaints about the lack of gender equality with patrons as well.

On that note, Tales of Tribute itself follows player requests for mini-games in taverns, including card games.

Scribing is their take on a precursor for spell crafting, which is a request that ZOS had heard for years prior to its release. They originally planned a spell crafting system and teased it, but then scrapped it for balance reasons. But players never stopped asking for it. For the 10th anniversary, they revisited this and made their own take on a precursor to it that is more able to be balanced for an MMO.

Mascen

dk_dunkirk wrote: »

As a developer myself, I've defended ZOS over comments like "they don't care" or "they're too stupid" to make changes which people request. Every non-trivial software project quickly develops a backlog of things that will simply never be gotten to, due to resource constraints, and I'm sure ESO is no different. However, there are many topics here which people consider make-or-break, and they seem to persist, while ZOS continues a steady influx of new content and new monetization efforts. Can anyone point to something that has changed about ESO thanks to forum discussion which was received well by the majority of the players? Or is this just safe place to vent?

I suggested a pelinal deck last year and Voila! We got a St. Alessia deck with Gold Road.

Honestly though I am chuffed we dont have a Pelinal Whitestrake tribute tapestry furnishing. Thats what i want so badly.

AzuraFan

I think it's likely that ZOS at least considers feedback from the forums, which has resulted in both good and bad changes. I honestly think they do listen, which doesn't mean they're obligated to implement every suggestion. Except for making Scritches the dog pettable. That's really, really important!

KromedeTheCorrupt

They took the same route as warframe they make a game they want not what the playerbase wants. Sorta double edged sword considering we spend the money on the product.

virtus753

TaSheen wrote: »

In a few cases, it seems it might. But I'm more inclined to think it's coincidental.

virtus753 wrote: »

-That Ink drop from surveys as well as from non-survey nodes - ZOS did not acknowledge this request at all. Recently it has begun to drop from surveys (at least blacksmithing ones), but that was not included the patch notes and may well be a bug.

I got one from a woodworking and another from a JC survey yesterday.

Thank you for the info! I did 42 woodworking ones in a row with no ink, after people said it had started dropping from surveys. Perhaps it's been changed yet again. I'll keep an eye out some more.

TaSheen

virtus753 wrote: »

TaSheen wrote: »

In a few cases, it seems it might. But I'm more inclined to think it's coincidental.

virtus753 wrote: »

-That Ink drop from surveys as well as from non-survey nodes - ZOS did not acknowledge this request at all. Recently it has begun to drop from surveys (at least blacksmithing ones), but that was not included the patch notes and may well be a bug.

I got one from a woodworking and another from a JC survey yesterday.

Thank you for the info! I did 42 woodworking ones in a row with no ink, after people said it had started dropping from surveys. Perhaps it's been changed yet again. I'll keep an eye out some more.

Next time, I'll try to remember screenshots.

Tandor

I think they do listen, and sometimes they do implement feedback or suggestions, an example being the introduction of the ability to move characters' positions on the character selection screen.

Too often, however, posters confuse their own personal wishes with "what we can all agree is wanted". We should never forget that one person's QoL improvement is another person's game-breaker, something that hopefully ZOS themselves will never forget.

Again, too often the criticism is that ZOS have listened to feedback and introduced something, only to find that those requesting it don't like the way it has been implemented - an example being account-wide achievements.

If they are going to consider implementing something on the grounds that it has been requested by the forums, streamers or focus groups etc, I'd far rather they established the level of support through launcher-based surveys of all the players, and also then kept an open mind on it through the early stages of the PTS cycles including retaining the option of holding it back while they worked further on the implementation.

Rather than claiming a failure to listen, I'd say the problem is more that they have listened too much to a small and unrepresentative section of the playerbase (or development team?) resulting in poor ideas being badly implemented despite warnings and feedback on the PTS which have been totally ignored.

kevkj

I do feel that forum feedback affects what developer time is spent on, as you can easily draw a direct line between many updates/balance changes and forum posts. What seems to be lacking is a unified direction/vision for these changes, it almost appears to be at the whimsy of individual employees rather than following any semblance of a plan. One glaring aspect where I think forum feedback is completely ignored concerns class balancing. Class changes generally seem to be made by a split personality employee who works on the dark side of the moon.

spartaxoxo

Actually, in the case of male companions being introduced by request, we can actually see the evolution of it because they were a bit more explicit about it than usual. So, I think it's potentially an interesting example to look at in greater detail.

When Ember and Isobel were introduced, players left feedback that they wanted the companions to be more equal in terms of gender. Some people even gave feedback about the types of personalities they wanted the men to have. Ember and Isobel's release brought the total up to 1 guy and 3 ladies at the time. This actually generated a lot of discussion and backlash. And that backlash also sparked some broader discussions about gender representation in video games. Due to the large amounts of requests for more male companions, ZOS ended up making a few different statements about it.

For example, here's one of the comments made. You can see a couple more if you click the spoiler.

ZOS_Kevin wrote: »

Just wanted to highlight that the team is aware that players would also like more male companions. We have passed that feedback along for their consideration for future companions.

We'll also pass along the want for and older grumpy adventurer for consideration.

ZOS_Kevin wrote: »

Hey All, we have been reviewing feedback across the board related to companions. While there is nothing to report yet, just wanted to let you know that the team has seen feedback related to more future male companions. They will consider this feedback for possible future companions. Thanks all for your suggestions.

"ZOS_Kevin wrote: »

Thanks for sharing my previous comments on this spartaxoxo. Appreciate it.

Just want to reiterate this here. The team is aware of this feedback regarding more male companions and factoring this in for future consideration. I have passed feedback similar to the ask for more male companions myself. So they are aware of the feedback.

Lastly, please consider how these questions are phrased and the potential accusatory nature of phrasing. There will be times when gender identity of companions will be the same while other times it won’t be. There is no malicious intent behind it, but the team is aware of the current feedback around the current balance.

https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/comment/7681113#Comment_7681113

The following year we got Necrom. This introduced two new male companions, Azandar and Sharp. At that time, they explicitly let us know that these companions were male specifically due to the large amounts of feedback given about wanting more male companions.

ZOS_Kevin wrote: »

Hi All! We've been keeping tabs on this thread for companion thoughts and feedback. So thanks for all who have contributed so far and for SilverBride for starting it up.

As noted in some threads around companions last year, we're keeping track and taking the feedback noted back to the dev team. As some of you have noted, one of the most requested elements of adding new companions was to even out the ratio with two male companions, which we were able to do in Necrom. While we know not everyone was going to get the companion archetype they hoped for, we hope some of you enjoy your time with Sharp-As-Night and Azandar Al-Cybiades.

We'll have some opportunities to learn more about your new companions in the coming weeks and months, but definitely continue your feedback here and we'll keep an eye on it here.

All together it took a year from acknowledging the feedback to that feedback being implemented in-game. This is because we get new companions once a year.

A lot of times when they implement something due to feedback, it won't be as explicitly communicated as this. Nevertheless, they are collecting our feedback. And sometimes they act on it. Other times they do not. They don't always communicate to us when something is changed or added due to player request either. Additionally, sometimes when it is implemented, it's not in the way that players might have wanted.

I think communication around this type of thing could certainly be improved. I also think they could do better at responding to feedback. But, just because a staff comment was not left does not mean it went unseen by Kevin or other staff members.

Muizer

dk_dunkirk wrote: »

As a developer myself, I've defended ZOS over comments like "they don't care" or "they're too stupid" to make changes which people request. Every non-trivial software project quickly develops a backlog of things that will simply never be gotten to, due to resource constraints, and I'm sure ESO is no different. However, there are many topics here which people consider make-or-break, and they seem to persist, while ZOS continues a steady influx of new content and new monetization efforts. Can anyone point to something that has changed about ESO thanks to forum discussion which was received well by the majority of the players? Or is this just safe place to vent?

I think your best shot at getting a written suggestion in game is to hope a dev reads it, forgets it and one day wakes up with it believing it was their own brilliant idea

katanagirl1

I can think of several things that I suggested that have been implemented, I don’t know if I was the first or not: crafting table interface that showed daily and master writ requirements for base game, HDR option for consoles that is not Vibrant, active harrowstorms on map like dragons, and mount speed boost in Cyrodiil as a passive instead of Rapid Maneuver.

EDIT: typo

gronoxvx

Imo you get more answers on reddit. But any criticism or feedback is usual met with people calling you toxic as zos can do no wrong.

tsaescishoeshiner

Yes. If you follow the patch notes and PTS forums, there are regularly things that are requested that are added. Things like Home Tours and 2-sided battlegrounds come from common requests, as well as smaller things like changes to the skyboxes of houses before they're released.

FlopsyPrince

I would expect that any changes that match what is said here are coincidental, not driven by posts here. And I have made MANY suggestions myself!

Whether ZOS listens to its players or not they could do a much better job of seeming to listen to their players.

moderatelyfatman

dk_dunkirk wrote: »

As a developer myself, I've defended ZOS over comments like "they don't care" or "they're too stupid" to make changes which people request. Every non-trivial software project quickly develops a backlog of things that will simply never be gotten to, due to resource constraints, and I'm sure ESO is no different. However, there are many topics here which people consider make-or-break, and they seem to persist, while ZOS continues a steady influx of new content and new monetization efforts. Can anyone point to something that has changed about ESO thanks to forum discussion which was received well by the majority of the players? Or is this just safe place to vent?

You can generally divide this into two categories.

Quality of Life improvements generally get made in response to repeated suggests of the community, although the ZOS devs can be a bit slow with it at times. You can see that the devs in charge are generally concerned with making improvements in the game and this aspect of the game has improved steadily over the past few years. Case in point: the armory, simplification of chromium platings, curated drops and the stickerbook.

Combat Improvements are practically non-existant as the devs in charge of this routinely release broken sets, nerf class skills to the point of uselessness and try to standardise performance based around the parsing dummy and not in actual content. Responses to the community are typically ignored or adjustments are made which so poorly implemented that they create a problem worst than the original one. I think most players agree that there has been no overall improvement in ESO combat (either PvE or PvP) over the past few years: instead, the game has gone backwards with classes now relying on proc-sets rather than skills to do a significant portion of their damage.

MJallday

its cute that people thing dev's read this forum.

i suspect theyre all busy, planning the next bunch of nerfs.

Destai

I think there's a mixed track record, tbh. Some others have presented some examples of where they do listen, but here's one big example where they didn't.

JiubLeRepenti

However, there are many topics here which people consider make-or-break, and they seem to persist, while ZOS continues a steady influx of new content and new monetization efforts.

This is not a "make or break" anymore. It's more a "make or keep falling".

Just look at the stats we get from Steam, among others like Google Trends (vid in spoiler):

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Sf-muQh4hOU

CrazyKitty

Destai wrote: »

I think there's a mixed track record, tbh. Some others have presented some examples of where they do listen, but here's one big example where they didn't.

A better example is the change to jabs animation. Within minutes of that change hitting the PTS the forum lit up with complaints and to this day people complain about it and ZOS just ignores the feedback.