Update 44

JiubLeRepenti · September 11

You can't choose companion gender.

You can choose it through the character creation process. It's a basic option so it makes sense to me to give it when you introduce the character.

And I agree with you for the rest. I don't find real interest into introducing the rest of the character's lore and their personality months before its release. Even if your comparison between personality and gender doesn't seem very accurate to me.

JiubLeRepenti · September 11

And they literally told us that Sharp and Azandar are men for gender representation reasons. Nobody tripped.

I find it stupid as well. We could get 6 female characters and I wouldn't care at all. I'm not playing ESO to see a balance between genders, sex, etc.

spartaxoxo · September 11

JiubLeRepenti wrote: »

You can't choose companion gender.

You can choose it through the character creation process. It's a basic option so it makes sense to me to give it when you introduce the character.

And I agree with you for the rest. I don't find real interest into introducing the rest of the character's lore and their personality months before its release.

Companions were explicitly distanced from player creation options because they want us to view them as their own, distinct, characters in the lore. We are not allowed to customize their face or even give them a helmet.

Them giving this information has nothing to do with evoking the character creator. They have explicitly rejected the idea we should view them as part our characters creation. They are their own, distinct characters within the world of Tamriel.

Their genders run the same range as other NPCs.

They give us some very basic biographical information as a teaser to who they are. And then we have to play the game to learn more.

That information follows the general format of gender, occupation, very brief personality description, and class. It's mostly the same format each time. Tanlorin was not different in that regard.

JiubLeRepenti · September 11

You can choose it through the character creation process. It's a basic option so it makes sense to me to give it when you introduce the character.

And I agree with you for the rest. I don't find real interest into introducing the rest of the character's lore and their personality months before its release.

Companions were explicitly distanced from player creation options because they want us to view them as their own, distinct, characters in the lore. We are not allowed to customize their face or even give them a helmet.

Don't agree with this. Any NPC in ESO could be 100% made through the character creation process. Excluding the lore and the personality part which are just a few constructions you can bring to one of your characters on your own.

I really don't see how Azhandar is different from a character I could make by my own.

spartaxoxo · September 11

Distancing NPCs from character creator isn't about whether or not you can make a clone. It's about ensuring that players view the characters as their own distinct entities with their own POV through which they view Tamriel. We don't have to guess at this. They told us. That's why there are no current plans for a fully custom companion. It's also why we cannot change their face or even add a helmet. They have told us this. They do not want companions viewed as extensions of the player character creation process.

JiubLeRepenti · September 11

spartaxoxo wrote: »

Distancing NPCs from character creator isn't about whether or not you can make a clone. It's about ensuring that players view the characters as their own distinct entities with their own POV through which they view Tamriel. We don't have to guess at this. They told us. That's why there are no current plans for a fully custom companion. It's also why we cannot change their face or even add a helmet. They have told us this. They do not want companions viewed as extensions of the player character creation process.

Yea so the only difference between Mirri and what I can do through the creation process is that I can't change her face nor slot a helmet on her... No matter what the devs want. Pretty light imo.

Btw, I just want to clarify something: don't get me wrong, I'm not pissed not triggered with the fact you disagree with me. Actually, it's a good thing to disagree with people and discussing about it. Even if my English is not the best, I hope i'm still understandable.

[Snip]

[Edited for bait]

RMW · September 11

JiubLeRepenti wrote: »

spartaxoxo wrote: »

Distancing NPCs from character creator isn't about whether or not you can make a clone. It's about ensuring that players view the characters as their own distinct entities with their own POV through which they view Tamriel. We don't have to guess at this. They told us. That's why there are no current plans for a fully custom companion. It's also why we cannot change their face or even add a helmet. They have told us this. They do not want companions viewed as extensions of the player character creation process.

Yea so the only difference between Mirri and what I can do through the creation process is that I can't change her face nor slot a helmet on her... No matter what the devs want. Pretty light imo.

Btw, I just want to clarify something: don't get me wrong, I'm not pissed not triggered with the fact you disagree with me. Actually, it's a good thing to disagree with people and discussing about it. Even if my English is not the best, I hope i'm still understandable.

[Snip]

[Edited quote]

JiubLeRepenti · September 11

RMW wrote: »

JiubLeRepenti wrote: »

spartaxoxo wrote: »

Distancing NPCs from character creator isn't about whether or not you can make a clone. It's about ensuring that players view the characters as their own distinct entities with their own POV through which they view Tamriel. We don't have to guess at this. They told us. That's why there are no current plans for a fully custom companion. It's also why we cannot change their face or even add a helmet. They have told us this. They do not want companions viewed as extensions of the player character creation process.

Yea so the only difference between Mirri and what I can do through the creation process is that I can't change her face nor slot a helmet on her... No matter what the devs want. Pretty light imo.

Btw, I just want to clarify something: don't get me wrong, I'm not pissed not triggered with the fact you disagree with me. Actually, it's a good thing to disagree with people and discussing about it. Even if my English is not the best, I hope i'm still understandable.

[Snip]

Nothing to be proud of mate. Respectfully.

[Edited quote]

Wolfkeks · September 11

spartaxoxo wrote: »

Distancing NPCs from character creator isn't about whether or not you can make a clone. It's about ensuring that players view the characters as their own distinct entities with their own POV through which they view Tamriel. We don't have to guess at this. They told us. That's why there are no current plans for a fully custom companion. It's also why we cannot change their face or even add a helmet. They have told us this. They do not want companions viewed as extensions of the player character creation process.

That's how I understood it as well. NPCs like Maomer are also not a playable race yet we have them as NPCs.

KnightofGears · September 11

Controversial or not, I like the new companions. I'm glad the necromancer is not a high elf this time.

Tanlorian sounds interesting but I wonder how much will be left of the "non-binary"aspect in actual gameplay?
Sure it is possible to center their background story around this, but if this companion will have a female bodyshape that means for costume and armor variants they'd still be stuck with the female versions?

It would be nice to have a choice there with a non-binary companion (I'm saying this because with costumes and armor, the version for one sex often looks much better than the other)

Maybe an option could be added to the character story or menu to change the body type as desired, so you can make them look like either sex?

spartaxoxo · September 11

Wolfkeks wrote: »

spartaxoxo wrote: »

Distancing NPCs from character creator isn't about whether or not you can make a clone. It's about ensuring that players view the characters as their own distinct entities with their own POV through which they view Tamriel. We don't have to guess at this. They told us. That's why there are no current plans for a fully custom companion. It's also why we cannot change their face or even add a helmet. They have told us this. They do not want companions viewed as extensions of the player character creation process.

That's how I understood it as well. NPCs like Maomer are also not a playable race yet we have them as NPCs.

Yup. And they indicated they are open to Maomer companions too

Q: Is it possible to get a Companion that isn't one of the playable races? Like an Atronach or Arox even?

TM: We don’t necessarily feel we have to hit every player race and class in our companion designs before we can do stuff off the beaten path, like a Maormer or Dremora. What we care about, first and foremost, is creating compelling characters that players want to adventure with. That said, we see a lot of requests for companions from player races that we haven’t represented yet – like Altmer, or Nord – and there’s a ton of compelling characters we can make with those backgrounds.
So to answer the original question, it is absolutely possible! I can’t promise anything, but it’s something we’re constantly discussing

https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/634365/companions-q-a/p2#Comment_7937639

M1SHAAN · September 11

Syldras wrote: »

I'm sorry, but while I agree that they should have made a companion of each race first before doubling one, I don't think this is a good comparison. I see that many people (not even all) care for representation when it comes to gender or sexual identity, things that really exist - but the fictional fantasy races of ESO? No one of us is really a Bosmer or Orc, not even a Nord (to name the three remaining races), even if there are real world similarities (and even then, a Scandinavian doesn't neccessarily have to prefer Nord characters in ESO). It's a matter of likings or preferences, but "Bosmer representation" certainly hasn't the same importance or meaning as "LGBT+ representation", for example. Or am I wrong? I'm open to discussions.

It's definitely not a perfect comparison, I'd say the two things are loosely related rather than being directly equivalent. I wasn't really trying to make a deep argument, just a cheap one-liner stemming from how funny I think it is that some of the same people upset that we're getting a non-binary companion are also upset that we're getting two Khajiit companions before getting one Nord or Bosmer.

Lady_Titania wrote: »

[Snip]

[Snip]

[Edited quote and for removed content]

Harry_Toes · September 11

So another Khajit companion and a High Elf.

Still missing - Orcs and Nords.

And who was I hoping for? Orcs and Nords.

Maybe next year.

But at least they finished filling out the classes - with now a double dose of DKs.

JemadarofCaerSalis · September 11

Lugaldu wrote: »

BretonMage wrote: »

Tanlorin is "scrappy"? I guess after Sharp and Azandar, it's a change, though I'm not particularly interested in scrappy types myself.

I had to look up what the word "scrappy" actually means - and I suspect that the German translation doesn't capture the intended meaning. Here it was translated as "combative", but that wouldn't be a particularly remarkable quality for a knight.

This might have already been pointed out, but that is basically what it means.

The connotations that I have always had is typically someone who is an underdog type who is always willing to stand up for themselves and always willing to get into a fight 'for what is right'.

Sometimes it does just get used for someone who is always willing to get into afight, no matter what.

joe_schmo · September 11

I just want a muscular nord hottie to be my boyfriend companion in game. Right now all we have is a runt with too many tattoos, a lizard, an old wrinkled bag, and now a furry. Please, just give me a tall muscled hunk. PLEASE

Drammanoth · September 11

joe_schmo wrote: »

I just want a muscular nord hottie to be my boyfriend companion in game. Right now all we have is a runt with too many tattoos, a lizard, an old wrinkled bag, and now a furry. Please, just give me a tall muscled hunk. PLEASE

Are you talkin' about a huge, Kyne-worshipping, sweat-reeking, hammer swinging, mead-burping, loud, obnoxious, belligerent, tough-AF, merry Nord DK?
YASSSS!

BlueRaven · September 11

Harry_Toes wrote: »

So another Khajit companion and a High Elf.

Still missing - Orcs and Nords.

And who was I hoping for? Orcs and Nords.

Maybe next year.

But at least they finished filling out the classes - with now a double dose of DKs.

You forgot bosmer, but yeah it should have been amongst those three. So even if they do two of those races next year (and now all bets are off if they will) someone has to wait at least two years to see their preferred race as a companion.

Rowjoh · September 11

I'm pretty sure role-players can costume-ise their companions and think of different names to reflect whatever gender/non-gender they want to pretend they are, to fit whatever imaginary world they desire.

WitchyKiki · September 11

spartaxoxo wrote: »

ZOS announced Tanlorin the same way they announced every other companion. We knew Bastian and Mirri's gender before we knew much else.

Not everyone believes non-binary is a gender, nor does everyone believe in gender theory.

Soarora · September 11

Drammanoth wrote: »

Soarora wrote: »

All I will say is that this isn't the first "TQIA+" character. There's nothing new here to discuss. Alchemy (Summerset) is trans, Dreamer (Blackwood) is nonbinary, Vivec (TES3/Morrowind) is intersex, Jakarn (base game) is pansexual. The ship has long since sailed to be unhappy about this, it's nothing new. I don't understand why people are bringing this up now...?

[Snip]

ESO is 17+. Children should not be playing this game, most players are 25+. So, children here is a moot point. I understand the broader argument, but my point is this isn’t a new inclusion. ESO has been adding all kinds (including nonbinary) of LGBTQ+ characters for years. Whether anyone likes it or not, that is fact. There’s nothing to argue. If you don’t like it, ignore it, or leave. ZOS didn’t change, people just noticed.

[Edited quote]

WitchyKiki · September 11

Soarora wrote: »

Drammanoth wrote: »

Soarora wrote: »

All I will say is that this isn't the first "TQIA+" character. There's nothing new here to discuss. Alchemy (Summerset) is trans, Dreamer (Blackwood) is nonbinary, Vivec (TES3/Morrowind) is intersex, Jakarn (base game) is pansexual. The ship has long since sailed to be unhappy about this, it's nothing new. I don't understand why people are bringing this up now...?

[Snip]

ESO is 17+. Children should not be playing this game, most players are 25+. So, children here is a moot point. I understand the broader argument, but my point is this isn’t a new inclusion. ESO has been adding all kinds (including nonbinary) of LGBTQ+ characters for years. Whether anyone likes it or not, that is fact. There’s nothing to argue. If you don’t like it, ignore it, or leave. ZOS didn’t change, people just noticed.

This is another point that irks me about the announcement, non-binaries exist within ESO already. The new companion is not the first one even if it was advertised as such on the stream.

[Edited quote]

StarOfElyon · September 11

Lady_Titania wrote: »

This update...

Companions:
Crown store companions.
No story questing behind them.
One of them is a repeated race; Kahjiit.
[Snip]

PVP:
Main focus battlegrounds.
No update to Cyrodiil.

The QOL updates are fine.

I do not like this update. I am going to be 100% honest. This is my opinion. I am entitled to my opinion, just like others are entitled to theirs.

In this thread - PLEASE talk about our wants as a community.

Zos can go back and review my thread about companions here: https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/658747/gold-road-new-companions-lets-discuss/p1

What I want?.. A sexy high elf male companions and Cyro updates for my pvp guild mates. Easy, right?

Yeah kinda disappointed we're getting another Kajiit.

[Edited quote]

Soarora · September 11

WitchyKiki wrote: »

Soarora wrote: »

Drammanoth wrote: »

Soarora wrote: »

All I will say is that this isn't the first "TQIA+" character. There's nothing new here to discuss. Alchemy (Summerset) is trans, Dreamer (Blackwood) is nonbinary, Vivec (TES3/Morrowind) is intersex, Jakarn (base game) is pansexual. The ship has long since sailed to be unhappy about this, it's nothing new. I don't understand why people are bringing this up now...?

[Snip]

ESO is 17+. Children should not be playing this game, most players are 25+. So, children here is a moot point. I understand the broader argument, but my point is this isn’t a new inclusion. ESO has been adding all kinds (including nonbinary) of LGBTQ+ characters for years. Whether anyone likes it or not, that is fact. There’s nothing to argue. If you don’t like it, ignore it, or leave. ZOS didn’t change, people just noticed.

This is another point that irks me about the announcement, non-binaries exist within ESO already. The new companion is not the first one even if it was advertised as such on the stream.

Right, maybe this companion was more on-the-nose (Alchemy and Dreamer have some deniability where you could say they’re metaphors for something other than gender if you’d like), but this is just ZOS’ stance. They’ve done streams for the Trevor Project too I believe, and supported in-game pride parades led by a stream team member. ZOS isn’t going to change their long-running stance just because people are upset that a companion is nonbinary.

We’ll have to see the quest to see the real quality. Maybe the quest will be more metaphorical where you could ignore it like with Alchemy and Dreamer, or maybe it’ll be really offensively written like Sharp’s original quest and High Isle’s “our pansexual characters are the definition of sleazy”. Who knows, but thats a conversation for when PTS drops if they’re included in PTS.

For now, there is nothing to discuss. If you want to complain about nonbinary inclusion, complain about all of the nonbinary npcs, but it isn’t going to change a thing when it comes to eso. Just wasted breath.

[Edited quote]

Wolfkeks · September 11

BlueRaven wrote: »

Harry_Toes wrote: »

So another Khajit companion and a High Elf.

Still missing - Orcs and Nords.

And who was I hoping for? Orcs and Nords.

Maybe next year.

But at least they finished filling out the classes - with now a double dose of DKs.

You forgot bosmer, but yeah it should have been amongst those three. So even if they do two of those races next year (and now all bets are off if they will) someone has to wait at least two years to see their preferred race as a companion.

After seeing spartaxoxo I'm wondering if they will go for the other races and classes or if they will try out new things like Maomer/Dremora or classes we haven't seen before or something like a werewolf/vampire companion.

WitchyKiki · September 11

WitchyKiki wrote: »

spartaxoxo wrote: »

ZOS announced Tanlorin the same way they announced every other companion. We knew Bastian and Mirri's gender before we knew much else.

Not everyone believes non-binary is a gender, nor does everyone believe in gender theory.

Soarora wrote: »

WitchyKiki wrote: »

Soarora wrote: »

Drammanoth wrote: »

Soarora wrote: »

All I will say is that this isn't the first "TQIA+" character. There's nothing new here to discuss. Alchemy (Summerset) is trans, Dreamer (Blackwood) is nonbinary, Vivec (TES3/Morrowind) is intersex, Jakarn (base game) is pansexual. The ship has long since sailed to be unhappy about this, it's nothing new. I don't understand why people are bringing this up now...?

[Snip]

ESO is 17+. Children should not be playing this game, most players are 25+. So, children here is a moot point. I understand the broader argument, but my point is this isn’t a new inclusion. ESO has been adding all kinds (including nonbinary) of LGBTQ+ characters for years. Whether anyone likes it or not, that is fact. There’s nothing to argue. If you don’t like it, ignore it, or leave. ZOS didn’t change, people just noticed.

This is another point that irks me about the announcement, non-binaries exist within ESO already. The new companion is not the first one even if it was advertised as such on the stream.

Right, maybe this companion was more on-the-nose (Alchemy and Dreamer have some deniability where you could say they’re metaphors for something other than gender if you’d like), but this is just ZOS’ stance. They’ve done streams for the Trevor Project too I believe, and supported in-game pride parades led by a stream team member. ZOS isn’t going to change their long-running stance just because people are upset that a companion is nonbinary.

We’ll have to see the quest to see the real quality. Maybe the quest will be more metaphorical where you could ignore it like with Alchemy and Dreamer, or maybe it’ll be really offensively written like Sharp’s original quest and High Isle’s “our pansexual characters are the definition of sleazy”. Who knows, but thats a conversation for when PTS drops if they’re included in PTS.

For now, there is nothing to discuss. If you want to complain about nonbinary inclusion, complain about all of the nonbinary npcs, but it isn’t going to change a thing when it comes to eso. Just wasted breath.

I think its just fine for people to discuss their opinions and thoughts in the matter, when civilized, people can learn a lot from each other. I've learned a couple of things from reading these discussions. So I can't agree its wasted breath.

I'm only upset the new companions are a crown store item, but I've already been vocal about that. I have ESO+ so I still have plans to play with both companions and enjoy their quests.

[Edited quote]

sarahthes · September 11

JiubLeRepenti wrote: »

RMW wrote: »

JiubLeRepenti wrote: »

RMW wrote: »

JiubLeRepenti wrote: »

SkaraMinoc wrote: »

Personally, I don't care. I thought Isobel was well done and is one of my favorite companions. But ZOS should take caution or share the fate of games like Concord. Know your market.

As always, in my opinion, the main issue lies in how things are introduced (and no, I'm not trying to mean anything inappropriate here ).

As you mentioned, Isobel hasn't faced any criticism nor complaints (from what I've seen so far), and most people have enjoyed the character and her backstory.

I'm a huge fan of TESIII: Morrowind, which was released in 2002. You could meet Crassus Curio, who is gay, in House Hlaalu. He was, in my opinion, the funniest and nicest character in the whole game. Again, nobody complained about him. We've had many gay characters in TES games over the years. Vivec, for instance, is basically a non-binary character, and he remains one of my favorite characters in the entire TES lore. But at least, it never felt like the developers or DEI team were trying to shove it down my throat. It's well-introduced, well-integrated into the lore, etc.

Here, I feel like ZOS is trying to say: "Look! We've added diversity! We're inclusive! See? SEE?!"

Adding diversity just for the sake of it always seems senseless to me. The key to success is how you integrate it into the lore. This is why nobody criticized the fact that you can play Afro characters with Redguards in TES, even though many people are harshly criticizing Amazon's Rings of Power series.

As you said, I hope Concord and Dustborn will finally show the developers and game publishers what we actually want. The modern audience doesn't exist.

So cool that you already seen the whole companion quest line and know how they tackle this!

Congrats for having completely missed my point here

Discovering Isobel as a lesbian character through her story was totally fine to me. But if I had seen ZOS introducing her before her release as a lesbian/straight/genderfluid/trans/etc. character, it would have been a problem to me.

I would have exactly the same reaction if the character was initially announced as a straight character.

This is what ZOS did for this new non-binary follower.

[Snip]

[Snip]

[Snip]

I enjoyed the questline where I learned that Mirri is a woman.

[Edited quote]

ZOS_Volpe · September 11

Greetings,

We've locked this thread to prevent any further spiraling. While we completely understand everyone has their own opinions, thoughts, feelings and even frustrations, we want the forums to be a civil and constructive platform for the game and it's community as a whole.

Thank you for your understanding.