Set Merger (Transmutation)

KaironBlackbard · August 19

This would be another way to use sets.
One version is by merging sets, you make new sets based off certain pieces of sets used in merging, and must have a number of identically merged set pieces. Example:
Merge Adept Rider and Jailbreaker.
Pieces must be same exact type. Jack merges with jack. Helm with helm. Ice staff with Ice staff.
The above adept rider + jailbreaker would use only medium armor because jailbreaker doesn't have heavy or light. Yes it also has jewelry and weapons.
Possible Combination:

2: Max Stamina
3: Armor
4: Stamina Recovery
5: Grants Major Gallop, Major Expedition, and Minor Expedition at all times.

Notice how it lost some stamina recovery, armor, and max health compared to the base versions.

I can make other combinations as well. Ask away.
If you think something might be broken, ask me. I'll probably find a way to merge it and make it not broken.

Sunderflame + Embershield ~= (Weapons and Jewelry only) (Sunder armor is medium only, ember armor is heavy only, therefore armor cannot get this merging, only weapons and jewelry)

2: Health
3: damage
4: critical
5: When you deal damage with a fully charged heavy attack, apply flame DoT and minor breach, gain armor, and gain a flame AoE around you.

Sunderflame + Infallible Mage (Similar to the above, because mage is light only and sunder is medium only, they cannot have merged armor as they don't share the same types. They only share weapons and jewelry. Therefore weapons and jewelry only.)

2: Crit Chance
3: Minor Slayer
4: Damage
5: Fully Charged heavy attacks apply minor breach and minor vulnerability and apply a flame DoT. Heavy attacks deal extra damage to monsters.

In essence, these are new sets. But, wearing the base sets or merged sets will disable certain piece effects of certain sets because one already has it active.
Such as, 5 sunderflame, and 5 sunderflame+embershield will not give you two flame DoTs, nor extend the minor breach, because it is the same effect.
In the case of the merging having a reduced effect of a certain piece, like how Infallible Mage lost some Crit Chance from its vulnerability, it will regain the lost effects.

BTW, it costs 100 to merge, so to make a full set of merged, that's 500 transmute crystals.

Monster sets can be merged as well, but tend to lose their 1pc perks.
Maw of the Infernal and Shadowrend.
Effect: 2pc
When you deal damage with a Light or Heavy Attack, you have a 33% chance to summon a fire breathing Daedroth for 15 seconds. The Daedroth's attacks deal 599 Flame damage every 2 seconds. The Daedroth can only be summoned once every 15 seconds and its damage scales off the higher of your Weapon or Spell Damage.
When you take damage, you summon a shadowy Clannfear for 15 seconds. The Clannfear's attacks deal 615 Magic damage and apply Minor Maim, reducing the target's damage done by 5% for 2 seconds. The Clannfear can be summoned once every 15 seconds and its damage scales off your Max Health.

And there is one special one, a 3 merge!
Night Mother's Embrace + Night Terror + Vesture of Darloc Brae (MJW, MJW, MJW) (Common: MJW)

2: Max Stamina (Night Mother's Embrace and Night Terror)
3: Reduces the radius you can be detected while Sneaking by 2 meters. Reduces the cost of Sneak by 10%. (Night Terror)
4: Reduces the radius you can be detected while Sneaking by 2 meters. Reduces the cost of Sneak by 10%. (Darloc)
5: Adds 171 Weapon and Spell Damage, Reduces the radius you can be detected while Sneaking by 2 meters. Reduces the cost of Sneak by 25%. (Night Mother's Embrace)

Would disable those parts of those sets.

These are just examples. I wonder what other combinations people will think of?

I did think of it being like 1 piece would count as a piece of 2 sets (or 3 in the last one above), but that would allow for 4 sets worth of power.
This version is more balanced, while gaining the flavor of many sets at once.
But, would require much more to implement than the count as many sets version.

KaironBlackbard · August 19

And no, mythics CANNOT be merged. Only multi-piece sets.

Speaking of, the sets merged must also have the same number of pieces. 5pc with 5pc, 2pc with 2pc.
Weapon set with weapon set, monster set with monster set.
Overland with dungeon, crafted with trial, mix and match, they are all 5 pc sets of similar power.

And, perhaps someone wants a 4th addition to the 3 merge?
Night's Silence - ignore the speed penalty of sneak
Lose/disable the 2 piece effects of all those sets.
Added to the 5th piece is that effect.
Would look more like this.

2: disabled
3: Reduces the radius you can be detected while Sneaking by 2 meters. Reduces the cost of Sneak by 10%. (Night Terror)
4: Reduces the radius you can be detected while Sneaking by 2 meters. Reduces the cost of Sneak by 10%. (Darloc)
5: Reduces the radius you can be detected while Sneaking by 2 meters. Reduces the cost of Sneak by 25%. (Night Mother's Embrace). Ignore the movement penalty of sneak. (Night's Silence).

Also lost the damage.

If I forgot to mention, these items must be the same level and quality to be merged. Choose the trait to keep if they have different traits. Choose the enchantment to keep if they have different enchantments.
Level 21 darloc and level 42 nights silence jack and jack cannot be merged because they are different levels.
Blue embrace and purple terror cannot be merged because they are different quality.
darloc jack and silence curiass cannot be merged because they are not the same type.
To keep a trait you must have learned it.

The_Isatope8 · August 21

This system would be incredibly OP. I think the better way to do something like this would be to take the 2, 3 and 4 piece bonuses of one set and combine that with the 5 piece bonus of another set for 50 transmute crystals.

KaironBlackbard · August 21

The purpose is purely for multiple 5 pc bonuses.
Probably at the cost of the 234 piece bonuses.
95% of sets aren't even used. They are abandoned and forgotten.
This would allow for bringing use back to old sets.

Note that the devs would basically have to add whole new sets as combination sets only gotten through merging, not through reforging.
I'd still like the feature of seeing them in your collections though, so you know what it does or what you need in order to get it.

It's tougher to obtain than a mythic mind you.

500 transmute crystals for a full set is a pain to grind, so people need to know what they are going for.

Collectors will take many months or a few years to grind enough crystals to fill their collections of these sets, not that they can reforge it though. To reforge these items, reforge their base items and remerge them. Not directly reforging or the cost won't be enough for the possible power it holds.

KaironBlackbard · August 21

tell me, what merged sets do you think would be OP?
Name them and I'll theorize a merging.

Erickson9610 · August 22

I feel like this feature would primarily be used to stack the popular sets together, rather than merge the unpopular sets together. If I had the ability to merge any two sets, I'd focus on merging what's most effective for my builds in PvE or PvP, rather than trying to fit in underutilized sets that I wouldn't consider using anyway.

The_Isatope8 · August 22

There is also the problem of coding a system in a way that would balance the sets. How would the merging be done according to an algorithm? If I wanted to merge Pilar of Nirn and Coral Riptide, how would that be balanced by code?

KaironBlackbard · August 22

Erickson9610 wrote: »

I feel like this feature would primarily be used to stack the popular sets together, rather than merge the unpopular sets together. If I had the ability to merge any two sets, I'd focus on merging what's most effective for my builds in PvE or PvP, rather than trying to fit in underutilized sets that I wouldn't consider using anyway.

That won't happen because ZOS Won't add popular set mixes as mergeable sets.
Remember, ZOS has to add everything. If They use an algorithm instead, it could make some overpowered sets, and they can't have that.
Perhaps they might do it like that in the beginning and rectify or ban certain overpowereds over time, but the intention here is the under/unused sets gaining new life. Start with the old/unused, do the most used or powerful later or never.
If powerfuls start dropping off the map because some merges outclassed them, then it's time to turn that one into a merge as well.

... Too many sets, algorithm is the only way... It'll take decades to manually compute all possible combinations.

Algorithm Merge should only do up to two in one. Manually can add more powerful / More sets merged into one, such as the 3 or 4 stealth sets as mentioned above.

Perhaps some buff sets could be turned into a merged multi-buff set like a weak oakensoul without the bar lock. 4 in one gives 4-8 buffs depending on what the sets are, oaken has 17. Why 4-8? Some have a single buff or debuff, others have two that are normally in junction with each other.

A list of sets that give a buff at all times. There were a couple with a proc, like Hist Bark, but that slight difference might complicate the merging. Abyssal Brace has a similar proc to Hist Bark.

Dreugh King Slayer (Major Brutality and Sorcery) (HWJ)
Rattlecage (Major Brutality and Sorcery) (HWJ)
Apocryphal Inspiration (Major Fortitude, Major Intellect, and Major Endurance) (MWJ)
Leki's Focus (Major Evasion) (MWJ)
Adept Rider (Major Expedition and Major Gallop) (Craft)
Toothrow (Major Savagery and Prophecy) (MWJ)
Treasure Hunter (Major Savagery and Prophecy) (LWJ)
Trial sets third piece when merged could do Minor Aegis and Slayer, but it doesn't look like they have any at all times buffs on 5th piece. The above are major buffs, below is minor.
Jailbreaker (Minor Expedition) (MWJ)
Medusa (Minor Force) (HWJ)
Champion of the Hist (Minor Heroism) (HWJ)
Shalk Exoskeleton (Minor Heroism) (HWJ)
Healer's Habit (Minor Mending) (LWJ)
Vampire Cloak (Minor Protection) (HWJ)
Warrior-Poet (Minor Toughness) (HWJ)
Order of Diagna (Minor Vitality) (HWJ)

Remember, must be the same type of item. Light chest to light chest, medium head to medium head, ice staff to ice staff, etc. For some combinations, they will be weapons and jewelry only as the armor weight do not match.
Edit: Went through adding the pieces of the sets beside them and what their buffs are. Turns out most of them are heavy sets.
Edit continued: HWJ=8, MWJ=4, LWJ=2, Craft=1
Edit continued: Now I wonder if they intended those numbers.

Monster Sets

Mighty Chudan (Major Resolve)
Slimecraw (Minor Berserk)

Ok, that's apparently it until they make more sets. Literally only one combination because of that lol.
I honestly thought there were more, but ok I guess that's all.
Edit: they'll probably negate the 1pc effect for balancing.

I went through the ESO Hub going buff by buff finding sets that granted buff at all times.

Edit 2: Oakensoul has these buffs (making these at all times sets obsolete) {Werewolf not included}

Empower
Major Brutality (Dreugh King Slayer, Rattlecage)
Major Prophecy (Toothrow, Treasure Hunter)
Major Resolve (Mighty Chudan)
Major Savagery (Toothrow, Treasure Hunter)
Major Sorcery (Dreugh King Slayer, Rattlecage)
Minor Aegis (trial)
Minor Berserk (Slimecraw)
Minor Courage
Minor Endurance
Minor Force (Medusa)
Minor Fortitude
Minor Heroism (Champion of the Hist, Shalk Exoskeleton)
Minor Intellect
Minor Mending (Healer's Habit)
Minor Protection (Vampire's Cloak)
Minor Slayer (trial)

Edit 2 continued: These are buffs Oakensoul has extra vs at all times sets {some abilities that become partially obsolete}

Empower
Minor Courage {Werewolf Pack Leader}
Minor Endurance {Many self heals, DK and WW morphed heal} {Templar Aura}
Minor Fortitude {DK self heal and WW morphed self heal} {Templar Aura}
Minor Intellect {Templar Aura}

Edit 2 continued: These sets and buffs are not included in Oakensoul (buffs and weight) {Other sources I know of, easy to use sources}

Apocryphal Inspiration (Major Endurance, Major Fortitude, Major Intellect) (MWJ) {Tri-Resto Potions}
Leki's Focus (Major Evasion) (MWJ) {Medium Armor skill and various others, like NB's Mirage/Blur}
Adept Rider (Major Expedition and Major Gallop) {Major Gallop given by Assault passive} (craft)
Jailbreaker (Minor Expedition) (MWJ) {NB's Concealed Weapon gives this}
Warrior Poet (Minor Toughness) (HWJ) {Warden can give this temporarily}
Order of Diagna (Minor Vitality) (HWJ)

KaironBlackbard · August 22

The_Isatope8 wrote: »

There is also the problem of coding a system in a way that would balance the sets. How would the merging be done according to an algorithm? If I wanted to merge Pilar of Nirn and Coral Riptide, how would that be balanced by code?

Pillar of Nirn
(2 items) Adds 657 Critical Chance
(3 items) Adds 657 Critical Chance
(4 items) Adds 129 Weapon and Spell Damage
(5 items) When you deal damage, you create a fissure underneath the enemy after 1 second, dealing 803 Bleed Damage to all enemies within 2.5 meters and causing them to bleed for an additional 2405 Bleed Damage over 10 seconds. This effect can occur once every 10 seconds and scales off the higher of your Weapon or Spell Damage.

Coral Riptide (has perfected variant)
(2 items) Adds 657 Critical Chance
(3 items) Gain Minor Slayer at all times, increasing your damage done to Dungeon, Trial, and Arena Monsters by 5%.
(4 items) Adds 129 Weapon and Spell Damage
(5 items) Increase your Weapon and Spell Damage by up to 740 based on your missing Stamina, reaching the maximum at 33% Stamina.
(5 perfected) Adds 657 Critical Chance

Merged mk1
(2 items) Adds 657 Critical Chance
(3 items) Gain Minor Slayer at all times, increasing your damage done to Dungeon, Trial, and Arena Monsters by 5%.
(4 items) Adds 129 Weapon and Spell Damage
(5 items) When you deal damage, you create a fissure underneath the enemy after 1 second, dealing 803 Bleed Damage to all enemies within 2.5 meters and causing them to bleed for an additional 2405 Bleed Damage over 10 seconds. This effect can occur once every 10 seconds and scales off the higher of your Weapon or Spell Damage.
(5 items) Increase your Weapon and Spell Damage by up to 740 based on your missing Stamina, reaching the maximum at 33% Stamina.
(5 perfected merged with nirn) Adds 657 Critical Chance

mk2 (mk1 but reduced 5th piece effectiveness for balancing)
(2 items) Adds 657 Critical Chance
(3 items) Gain Minor Slayer at all times, increasing your damage done to Dungeon, Trial, and Arena Monsters by 5%.
(4 items) Adds 129 Weapon and Spell Damage
(5 items) When you deal damage, you create a fissure underneath the enemy after 1 second, dealing 803 Bleed Damage to all enemies within 2.5 meters and causing them to bleed for an additional 1205 Bleed Damage over 10 seconds. This effect can occur once every 10 seconds and scales off the higher of your Weapon or Spell Damage.
(5 items) Increase your Weapon and Spell Damage by up to 500 based on your missing Stamina, reaching the maximum at 33% Stamina.
(5 perfected merged with nirn) Adds 657 Critical Chance

Could half the effectiveness in general of the 5th piece, while granting both capabilities.

Edit
mk3: not applicable
the 5th perk is vastly different. They might not let it as a mergeable since it would give it multiple proc conditions. They might require the same proc condition, like buff sets that grant at all times or ones like Hist Bark and Abyssal Brace that activate while bracing.

Erickson9610 · August 22

If I can't merge the sets that I want to use, then I won't use the feature. It just seems arbitrary which sets would be allowed and which ones wouldn't.

KaironBlackbard · August 22

Erickson9610 wrote: »

If I can't merge the sets that I want to use, then I won't use the feature. It just seems arbitrary which sets would be allowed and which ones wouldn't.

It's just balancing. And it's easier to merge ones that are similar in nature.
Eventually all may have combinations, but they can't let any one combination be more powerful than another. It's a battle they fight with the current system. Try to fix one, another takes its place. This would allow them to bring back forgotten sets by allowing them to be merged with other forgotten sets for a broader capability of the merged version allowing for almost as much power as some of the latest sets. Giving the latest some competition with the old.

Which sets are you in reference to? I might be able to make a hypothesis.

El_Borracho · August 22

If I can't merge the sets I want to merge, why would I want to make a third bad set out of two other bad sets?

The primary problem has been identified by @The_Isatope8. Either the resulting set would be super OP or trash.

The_Isatope8 · August 23

Another issue that I see has to do with buff sets. The way the merging process is described, buff sets would get their buffs combined. If a healer was to run Jorvald's/ Roaring Opportunist and SPC/ Pillagers they would get the effects of all of the sets with 1 toon. How would the buffs be balanced?

In my mind the only way that something like merging 5 piece sets would work with the code would be to have separate stats attached to the set that would only become active once 2 sets are merged. sets with timers would have the duration reduced, sets that give group recovery/ stat bonusses (ebon armory, hircines veneer etc.) would have the stats reduced and sets that have a proc effect could have a longer cooldown or reduced damage.

The way that this merging sets thing works would be completely busted for some setups. Imagine a PvP DK running Bloodspawn/ Balorgh, Way of Fire/ Akaviri Dragonguard and deadric Trickery/ Rallying Cry.

Imagine a PvP NightBlade running Balorgh/ Anthelmiirs Construct, Order's Wrath/ Tarnished Nightmare and Rallying Cry/ Wretched Vitality.

I think that the idea of merging sets to further refine a build is an interesting one. This concept just needs a lot of refinement.

KaironBlackbard · August 23

The_Isatope8 wrote: »

Another issue that I see has to do with buff sets. The way the merging process is described, buff sets would get their buffs combined. If a healer was to run Jorvald's/ Roaring Opportunist and SPC/ Pillagers they would get the effects of all of the sets with 1 toon. How would the buffs be balanced?

In my mind the only way that something like merging 5 piece sets would work with the code would be to have separate stats attached to the set that would only become active once 2 sets are merged. sets with timers would have the duration reduced, sets that give group recovery/ stat bonusses (ebon armory, hircines veneer etc.) would have the stats reduced and sets that have a proc effect could have a longer cooldown or reduced damage.

The way that this merging sets thing works would be completely busted for some setups. Imagine a PvP DK running Bloodspawn/ Balorgh, Way of Fire/ Akaviri Dragonguard and deadric Trickery/ Rallying Cry.

Imagine a PvP NightBlade running Balorgh/ Anthelmiirs Construct, Order's Wrath/ Tarnished Nightmare and Rallying Cry/ Wretched Vitality.

I think that the idea of merging sets to further refine a build is an interesting one. This concept just needs a lot of refinement.

Jorvald's/ Roaring Opportunist: Error - one is passive, the other is heavy attack. Attempting merge... (Yes I intended that to sound robotic). (LWJ, LWJ, weights match)
2 - Magicka recovery
3 - Minor Slayer
4 - damage boost
5a - After completing a fully-charged Heavy Attack, you and up to 5 group members gain Major Slayer, increasing your damage done to Dungeon, Trial, and Arena Monsters by 10% for 1 second for every 600 Spell Damage or 6300 Magicka you have. Roaring Opportunist can only affect a target every 22 seconds. Maximum duration 12 seconds.
5b - While in combat, increases the duration of all Major buffs, Minor buffs, and damage shields you apply to yourself and allies by 40%.
Mk1: Halving effectiveness of 5th pieces for balancing...
5a - Maximum Duration 6 seconds
5b - 20% rather than 40%
Mk2: Unification
5u - After completing a fully-charged Heavy Attack, you and up to 5 group members gain Major Slayer, increasing your damage done to Dungeon, Trial, and Arena Monsters by 10% for 1.4 seconds for every 600 Spell Damage or 6300 Magicka you have. Roaring Opportunist can only affect a target every 22 seconds. Maximum duration 16.8 seconds.
Buff boost only applies to the buff given by the heavy attack, rather than all. As shown in 5u.

SPC/ Pillagers - error, vastly different uses and cast types, cannot compute

ebon armory, hircines veneer - HWJ, MWJ - this combination is weapons and jewelry only as they do not share armor weight
2 - disabled
3 - max stamina
4 - healing taken
5 - activates the fifth piece perks of both ebon armory and hircine's veneer

Bloodspawn/ Balorgh - error, procs don't match

Way of Fire/ Akaviri Dragonguard - error, procs don't match

deadric Trickery/ Rallying Cry. - error, procs don't match. Error, I don't think there is any other set that procs off battle spirit. Rallying Cry may be unable to be merged with anything because of that.

Balorgh/ Anthelmiirs Construct - error, procs don't match (Ultimate vs Heavy Attack)

Order's Wrath/ Tarnished Nightmare - passive, deal crit damage, both crit based. Possible, but doubtful. Attempting Merge.
Craft, MWJ, this set is MWJ only.
2 - Adds 657 Critical Chance
3 - Adds 129 Weapon and Spell Damage
4 - Adds 657 Critical Chance
5 - Adds 943 Critical Chance, Increases your Critical Damage and Critical Healing by 8%. When you deal Critical Damage to an enemy, glass shards burst 8 meters around them, dealing 1129 Physical Damage to enemies in the burst and applying the Sundered status effect. This effect can occur once every 8 seconds and the damage scales off the higher of your Weapon or Spell Damage.
----Some effects may be reduced for balancing.

Rallying Cry/ Wretched Vitality. - again, due to battle spirit proc, may be unable to be merged with any other set since they don't proc off battle spirit.

KaironBlackbard · August 23

El_Borracho wrote: »

If I can't merge the sets I want to merge, why would I want to make a third bad set out of two other bad sets?

The primary problem has been identified by @The_Isatope8. Either the resulting set would be super OP or trash.

Any specific sets in mind?

Reminder: Weights must match or it becomes very limited to where it can go (weapons and jewelry only)
Procs must be of similar type, such as buff set and buff set, heavy attack to heavy attack, ultimate cast to ultimate cast.
Weapon sets could be an exception, allowing you 2 weapon sets at once, without much penalty because they depend on specific weapon skills to be cast and are of the same tree/weapon types.
Rallying Cry cannot merge because of its unique battle spirit proc.
Imperial Physique cannot merge because of its unique tel var proc.
Etc.
Sets to be merged must have the same number of pieces. 2 piece to 2 piece (monster to monster or weapon to weapon), 3 piece to 3 piece, (willpower, agility, etc, assuming they have similar procs. Most are passive or flat resource, right?), 5 piece to 5 piece.
12 piece sets cannot be merged as they were intended to have enough power to forgo other sets in their stead. If they don't have that power, then they should be mergeable, assuming they have the same structure.
Shattered Fate's unique structure prevents it from being merged with other 12pcs, like Druid's Braid.

Just searched, those are the only two in existence, so until more are made in either one's structure, they cannot be merged.
Structures: SF 5, 10, 12; DB 1, 2, 3, etc. For SF to be mergeable, another 5, 10, 12 set needs to exist for it to merge with. For DB to be mergeable, another set with an effect for every piece needs to exist for it to merge with.