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Time Expired - So when will ESO be production release ready?
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Reignskream✭✭✭✭Well, no company should be playing trial and error on customer time and money. When a company charges a sub it's a statement that, "we are so confident in our ability to manage this product that you are willingly going to pay us to do it".
It's not a case of, "please bung us a tenner a month while we play trial and error for 6 months."
I am afraid that's not how the customer supplier relationship works.
If they were still at trial and error stage they should not have released it, because it's simply not tenable to charge people for experimentation. Customers will do what they are doing, and take their money elsewhere.Reignskream wrote: »
New company, new problems, new bugs, old bugs, repeatable bugs. It's going to be a trial and error for the next 6 months.
And I'm sure if ZOS could keep everyone happy, and not do a trial and error type thing they would, because that is more money for them. But it's a brand new MMO, problems will arise as such, its bound to happen all the time for a couple more months until things even out.
WoW still has bugs going on, and botters, and gold sellers, and they have new bugs arise, and all that good stuff. But they've had so long to work with it, that they manage it VERY well in my opinion.
This is whats happening with ESO, it's just that its a new company doing this, and not as experienced. Time will tell everything, and who knows, maybe ZOS will turn out to suck! -- But for now, its too early to say.2 -
GossiTheDog✭✭✭✭✭Here's the thing. Yes, it's an MMO launch. Yes, they have bugs. But:
Zenimax have been working on this one title for almost 7 years now, bankrolled all the way. You've seen those live action trailers for Elder Scrolls Online. If you haven't, YouTube it. 20 minutes of extremely expensive live action trailers. The publisher thought this game would be huuuuuuuuuge. Skyrim shipped 20m copies. Zenimax Online Studios have set up offices all over the world for this release. They say they've built two datacenters. Look how many people they employ on Linked In! The investment here is titanic. It's priced at the highest edge of MMOs, with highest edge of subscription charge.
Yet, here we either, less than 6 weeks from release and PVP campaigns are almost all empty, my guild is almost empty, and it's peak time in EU. At a weekend.
They need a new press narrative, which isn't 'we're working on bots'. They need to acknowledge what has happened and try to get people back on board.6 -
Daethz✭✭✭Its 2014: WoW's trade chat is still spammed with gold sellers and hundreds/thousands of ore/herb farming bots.Waiting, and watching, for the return of Melee Weapons.
-Subsidiary of The Fighters Guild2 -
Chanz✭✭
This is exactly what's wrong. With the expensive game editions + subscription, you expect them to deliver. Now it's not they are not delivering enough, it's even worse than that. Their CS is practically nonexistent. And on top of everything bad, their system double and triple charged customers who wanted to resub in the last few days while their accounts got locked. Amateurs... nothing else to describe them other then this.Well, no company should be playing trial and error on customer time and money. When a company charges a sub it's a statement that, "we are so confident in our ability to manage this product that you are willingly going to pay us to do it".
It's not a case of, "please bung us a tenner a month while we play trial and error for 6 months."
I am afraid that's not how the customer supplier relationship works.
If they were still at trial and error stage they should not have released it, because it's simply not tenable to charge people for experimentation. Customers will do what they are doing, and take their money elsewhere.Reignskream wrote: »
New company, new problems, new bugs, old bugs, repeatable bugs. It's going to be a trial and error for the next 6 months.
This is the best way to lose customers and they are pretty much going all that way at this moment.
Edited by Chanz on May 11, 2014 8:56PM7 -
raglau✭✭✭✭✭GossiTheDog wrote: »Here's the thing. Yes, it's an MMO launch. Yes, they have bugs. But: ts'. They need to acknowledge what has happened and try to get people back on board.
Yes, a little humility would serve them well at this time.
Nothing I would love more than a u turn in the game but they need to accept there is a problem first6 -
anakaki✭✭✭Re-subscribe please and support them, without our money they can't work
I want to subscribe but cant since there are some peroblems on their end with peoples subs going through...so they gonna lose A LOT of money as it is now anyway lol
OP is doing the right thing and waiting it out for awhile now, this game and its support is a mess atm
No they won't. They have double charged loads of people.
Problem solved...Death Recap for TemplarsHave you tried rerolling to a Sorcerer or Dragonknight?Ragnar_Lodbrok wrote: »Templars do more dps than DK's.4 -
Reignskream✭✭✭✭GossiTheDog wrote: »Here's the thing. Yes, it's an MMO launch. Yes, they have bugs. But: ts'. They need to acknowledge what has happened and try to get people back on board.
Yes, a little humility would serve them well at this time.
Nothing I would love more than a u turn in the game but they need to accept there is a problem first
What do you guys want, them to write a letter of apology or something? They're probably so busy trying to figure out what the heck to do they don't have time to cater to peoples every little need.
They follow CS forums as everyone can see, do you want them to waste time in doing what, writing a letter of them saying they know whats going on? They've done that in numerous threads that were truely in need of help. And respond to tons of tickets daily.
I just don't see what more they can do, and as everyones suggestions are greatly appreciated by them I'm sure of, what more do you want from them. things take time fixing.Edited by Reignskream on May 11, 2014 9:11PM2 -
Reignskream✭✭✭✭Re-subscribe please and support them, without our money they can't work
I want to subscribe but cant since there are some peroblems on their end with peoples subs going through...so they gonna lose A LOT of money as it is now anyway lol
OP is doing the right thing and waiting it out for awhile now, this game and its support is a mess atm
No they won't. They have double charged loads of people.
Problem solved...
You act like these people won't get their money back. Yeah it sucks as I'm dealing with it myself right now, but I know ill get my money back one way or another. Whether my payment goes through and gives me my game time, or just goes back onto my card, idk yet.
Edited by Reignskream on May 11, 2014 9:13PM1 -
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raglau✭✭✭✭✭Reignskream wrote: »
What do you guys want, them to write a letter of apology or something? They're probably so busy trying to figure out what the heck to do they don't have time to cater to peoples every little need.
It's about catering to the market need.
A company that publicly messes up and does not acknowledge it and fails to show a roadmap to remediation, commits a PR own goal. Just because they are a game company does not make them immune to these effects.4 -
Reignskream✭✭✭✭But they've clearly stated they're working on the issue. I don't get how they "didn't acknowledge it".0
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Bouvin✭✭✭✭✭
✭GossiTheDog wrote: »Here's the thing. Yes, it's an MMO launch. Yes, they have bugs. But:
Zenimax have been working on this one title for almost 7 years now, bankrolled all the way. You've seen those live action trailers for Elder Scrolls Online. If you haven't, YouTube it. 20 minutes of extremely expensive live action trailers. The publisher thought this game would be huuuuuuuuuge. Skyrim shipped 20m copies. Zenimax Online Studios have set up offices all over the world for this release. They say they've built two datacenters. Look how many people they employ on Linked In! The investment here is titanic. It's priced at the highest edge of MMOs, with highest edge of subscription charge.
Yet, here we either, less than 6 weeks from release and PVP campaigns are almost all empty, my guild is almost empty, and it's peak time in EU. At a weekend.
They need a new press narrative, which isn't 'we're working on bots'. They need to acknowledge what has happened and try to get people back on board.
They need to hire a decent PR person is what they need to do.
It's a shame how much PR these companies push out before release to hype up a game, then after release it's crickets.
They spend all of that money to get customers, but no money on PR to KEEP THEM.4 -
Korozenn✭✭✭✭I can tell this thread is going to be closed for obvious reasons, so I'll post my opinions since launch here here:
To post my tl;dr response before I get into making a story here, let me try to nail this in a single paragraph:
MMOs never have solid launches. They are ridden with countless bugs, exploits, botting issues and the illegal RMT black market trade, account hacking, and other issues that rise as a result of all that. ESO is no exception to that rule, and this issue with MMOs will only continue to get worse when they launch out-of-the-gate due to how advanced these botting programs have become for the past decade-and-a-half. Does it frustrate me to see all of the above problems in ESO? Yes, of course it does. Do I think they'll be fixed? Well, with the fact that ZeniMax still manages to keep large content updates coming while handling the botting issues, yes. I do believe all of these issues will be negated to a point that we don't notice them hampering our gameplay experience. Should I unsubscribe from the game because none of this has been handled in a month? Hahaha. Friends...a month isn't nearly enough time for these issues to be fixed. Give the game at least three-to-four months to see issues with botting decreased to a point that it's not noticeable any longer, but asking for this to all happen in the timespan of a single month is ludicrous. I'm giving them six months, and if the game still has said issues above not resolved to an acceptable point for me, then I'll have nothing left to do but unsubscribe, unfortunately.
Okay, time for my long-winded response now (takes a deep breath):
Now, unsubscribing because of poor customer service (as the OP pointed out) is entirely up-to-you. Right now, I utterly DESPISE the automated replies that don't even remotely address the issues we've been getting with our experiences in-game. If it's not automated replies we're getting, then it's no reply at all. I can't tell you how much that infuriates me when the game is in as vulnerable a state as it currently stands. It took me weeks to get into contact with a GM, and I'm about to type up yet another email to customer service again about this same issue. They state to us that they are going to escalate our problems to upper-management, but they don't. Nothing else gets more stressful and frustrating as that right there, and I would totally understand if someone wanted to unsubscribe from the game because of that as customer service is supposed to 'support' us. Not turn us away with their automated bs.
Please... just please stop with the "new MMO, this stuff is expected to happen". Some of the stuff was expected to happen in the BETA and fixed afterwards, but not in ESO. Some of their (Zeni) design choices were doomed since their introduction.I mean its ESO, I have been waiting for this for what seems like forever. Plus it is a new MMO, this kind of stuff just happens and to be honest it should be expected to some degree!
Countless things are wrong with the game and yet they want to add more content, while not even addressing some of the problems. Was it even expected for players to be double or triple charged for their subscription? Customer service is one of the worst i have ever seen in all the years i played MMORPG's.
Personally, i think only a new fresh launch will save the game. Something FFXIV had with the "A Realm Reborn". But i don't think we will see this, because unlike Western companies, Japanese ones value their business, customers and feel morale obligations to both if something is wrong. Western gaming companies nowadays just care about how much $ they are going to get for unfinished products... and ESO is yet one more unfinished product and that's a damn fact no matter how much fanboys disagree with it.
I'd love to know how you possibly think in your mindset that it would be remotely possible to overlook the fact that this IS a new MMO and problems like these are bound to happen.
Now, the botting and RMT issues are huge issues here--that much is a known fact. With that argument, I would agree that ZeniMax customer service has not been handling well at all. In fact, they've been absolute atrocious--it's the Gamemasters that I've top-notch AAA-quality service with, but they can't do anything about these issues if customer service doesn't relay them properly to upper-management like they're supposed to to begin with! That's a very frustrating issue, and I personally think that the company needs to restructure its customer service department as a result.
I've been getting nothing but automated responses to lists of hundreds-upon-hundreds of bots that I've already sent to them by email (because we all know that using the "Report Player" functionality in the game gets us absolutely nowhere). Hell, bugs and massive exploits in the game that have been there since launch (infinite sprinting exploit when on horseback, for instance), I've reported over ten times now using "/bug" to no avail.
When I report it directly to ZeniMax customer service through their email section of the Support site, I get an automated response saying "Oh, boohoo. Sorry about your frustration with the game. If it help, we have people working on resolving this issue for you. Stay tuned for news using the following social channels." Blah, blah, blah, you're not even addressing the issue I had to begin with, ZOS Customer Service.
It's extremely infuriating when you spend hours-upon-hours doing ZOS's job for them, just to have customer service respond with a generic, automated response that doesn't even answer the problems you are experiencing with the game. I also like the fact that they continually tell me to use F > Report Player in-game when I've told them countless time that that hasn't done anything to address botting issues in-game. It's become a major issue for me, and my greatest deal of frustration with this game is definitely the fact that exploits, botting, and RMT has led to a very unfair advantage to those people who partake in them, with seemingly nothing being done to them because of server-side issues that the OP brought up, and IS correct on that ZeniMax's online services are very vulnerable as they stand now.
All that said, it's a new MMO. These things ARE bound to happen, especially nowadays compared to 2005. That's where I disagree with both you and the OP on this topic.
There's no way you can expect a bot-free or RMT-free experience in games like this nowadays, but it 'is' possible to negate them to a degree that they're practically non-existent problems for the rest of the community. Botting and exploits have just become far more difficult to face as MMO games continue to advance in scope, and Elder Scrolls Online is no different to that sad-but-true rule. ESO quite possibly has the largest playable game space for an MMO at launch, and along with that, I personally expected there to be major issues raising from all of that.
However, I didn't expect customer service to respond--nay--be as unresponsive as they are. All they do is copy-and-paste from a template and use that to respond to our problems, which is inexcusable.
I'm giving ZeniMax half-a-year. After that much time is up, MMO games don't usually play anywhere near like they originally launched, for the better (in most cases). WoW, GW, EQ, DAoC, FFXIV and many other MMOs have followed in that same pattern of getting better online services and a totally different, enhanced game experience to the point that they don't even remotely resemble what you played before. If these issues aren't negated by then, then I'm definitely unsubscribing.
But after finally being able to get into contact with GMs after how long I've been sending countless reports, seeing that ZeniMax are still managing to push large-content updates for their game while dealing with these botting issues, and with the hope that exploiters and botters get the due justice that they deserve (as in permanent bans), I have high-hopes that this game will see many more years ahead of it still.Edited by Korozenn on May 11, 2014 9:21PM6 -
GossiTheDog✭✭✭✭✭Reignskream wrote: »GossiTheDog wrote: »Here's the thing. Yes, it's an MMO launch. Yes, they have bugs. But: ts'. They need to acknowledge what has happened and try to get people back on board.
Yes, a little humility would serve them well at this time.
Nothing I would love more than a u turn in the game but they need to accept there is a problem first
What do you guys want, them to write a letter of apology or something?
With the Final Fantasy MMO, they managed to turn it around in a significant way by being completely honest with people, and ended up relaunching the game. It's now financially successful, and people have returned.
Hell, with Planetside 2, an MMO shooter, the Chief Technology Officer for Sony came on the forum and posted this letter due to one server being slow for a short period:
https://forums.station.sony.com/ps2/index.php?threads/briggs-after-action-report.185306/
The EU megaserver isn't even in Europe with this release, and they've basically left the poor community managers to explain what is happening. And they don't know. ??? None of it is triple A title. A lot of this is basically shoddy. Subscribers will leave by the boat load unless they get honest and get serious.
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raglau✭✭✭✭✭Reignskream wrote: »But they've clearly stated they're working on the issue. I don't get how they "didn't acknowledge it".
The gamer market perception of this game is that it is a failure. It will take more than a few platitudes on this forum to fix this perception now it is made.
But, wait and see. I would love to be wrong but I believe ZOS have already caused too much damage to the name to draw in replacement customers for the hordes that are leaving.
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Reignskream✭✭✭✭Reignskream wrote: »But they've clearly stated they're working on the issue. I don't get how they "didn't acknowledge it".
The gamer market perception of this game is that it is a failure. It will take more than a few platitudes on this forum to fix this perception now it is made.
But, wait and see. I would love to be wrong but I believe ZOS have already caused too much damage to the name to draw in replacement customers for the hordes that are leaving.
Time will tell.2 -
esoone✭✭✭
I just got hit by a critt of words and am ko, but serious you have a alot of valid points but they first nerf loot and provision mats into oblivion and dont fix a single quest were serious hundreds and hundreds of bots are day in day out.I can tell this thread is going to be closed for obvious reasons, so I'll post my opinions since launch here here:
To post my tl;dr response before I get into making a story here, let me try to nail this in a single paragraph:
MMOs never have solid launches. They are ridden with countless bugs, exploits, botting issues and the illegal RMT black market trade, account hacking, and other issues that rise as a result of all that. ESO is no exception to that rule, and this issue with MMOs will only continue to get worse when they launch out-of-the-gate due to how advanced these botting programs have become for the past decade-and-a-half. Does it frustrate me to see all of the above problems in ESO? Yes, of course it does. Do I think they'll be fixed? Well, with the fact that ZeniMax still manages to keep large content updates coming while handling the botting issues, yes. I do believe all of these issues will be negated to a point that we don't notice them hampering our gameplay experience. Should I unsubscribe from the game because none of this has been handled in a month? Hahaha. Friends...a month isn't nearly enough time for these issues to be fixed. Give the game at least three-to-four months to see issues with botting decreased to a point that it's not noticeable any longer, but asking for this to all happen in the timespan of a single month is ludicrous. I'm giving them six months, and if the game still has said issues above not resolved to an acceptable point for me, then I'll have nothing left to do but unsubscribe, unfortunately.
Okay, time for my long-winded response now (takes a deep breath):
Now, unsubscribing because of poor customer service (as the OP pointed out) is entirely up-to-you. Right now, I utterly DESPISE the automated replies that don't even remotely address the issues we've been getting with our experiences in-game. If it's not automated replies we're getting, then it's no reply at all. I can't tell you how much that infuriates me when the game is in as vulnerable a state as it currently stands. It took me weeks to get into contact with a GM, and I'm about to type up yet another email to customer service again about this same issue. They state to us that they are going to escalate our problems to upper-management, but they don't. Nothing else gets more stressful and frustrating as that right there, and I would totally understand if someone wanted to unsubscribe from the game because of that as customer service is supposed to 'support' us. Not turn us away with their automated bs.
Please... just please stop with the "new MMO, this stuff is expected to happen". Some of the stuff was expected to happen in the BETA and fixed afterwards, but not in ESO. Some of their (Zeni) design choices were doomed since their introduction.I mean its ESO, I have been waiting for this for what seems like forever. Plus it is a new MMO, this kind of stuff just happens and to be honest it should be expected to some degree!
Countless things are wrong with the game and yet they want to add more content, while not even addressing some of the problems. Was it even expected for players to be double or triple charged for their subscription? Customer service is one of the worst i have ever seen in all the years i played MMORPG's.
Personally, i think only a new fresh launch will save the game. Something FFXIV had with the "A Realm Reborn". But i don't think we will see this, because unlike Western companies, Japanese ones value their business, customers and feel morale obligations to both if something is wrong. Western gaming companies nowadays just care about how much $ they are going to get for unfinished products... and ESO is yet one more unfinished product and that's a damn fact no matter how much fanboys disagree with it.
I'd love to know how you possibly think in your mindset that it would be remotely possible to overlook the fact that this IS a new MMO and problems like these are bound to happen.
Now, the botting and RMT issues are huge issues here--that much is a known fact. With that argument, I would agree that ZeniMax customer service has not been handling well at all. In fact, they've been absolute atrocious--it's the Gamemasters that I've top-notch AAA-quality service with, but they can't do anything about these issues if customer service doesn't relay them properly to upper-management like they're supposed to to begin with! That's a very frustrating issue, and I personally think that the company needs to restructure its customer service department as a result.
I've been getting nothing but automated responses to lists of hundreds-upon-hundreds of bots that I've already sent to them by email (because we all know that using the "Report Player" functionality in the game gets us absolutely nowhere). Hell, bugs and massive exploits in the game that have been there since launch (infinite sprinting exploit when on horseback, for instance), I've reported over ten times now using "/bug" to no avail.
When I report it directly to ZeniMax customer service through their email section of the Support site, I get an automated response saying "Oh, boohoo. Sorry about your frustration with the game. If it help, we have people working on resolving this issue for you. Stay tuned for news using the following social channels." Blah, blah, blah, you're not even addressing the issue I had to begin with, ZOS Customer Service.
It's extremely infuriating when you spend hours-upon-hours doing ZOS's job for them, just to have customer service respond with a generic, automated response that doesn't even answer the problems you are experiencing with the game. I also like the fact that they continually tell me to use F > Report Player in-game when I've told them countless time that that hasn't done anything to address botting issues in-game. It's become a major issue for me, and my greatest deal of frustration with this game is definitely the fact that exploits, botting, and RMT has led to a very unfair advantage to those people who partake in them, with seemingly nothing being done to them because of server-side issues that the OP brought up, and IS correct on that ZeniMax's online services are very vulnerable as they stand now.
All that said, it's a new MMO. These things ARE bound to happen, especially nowadays compared to 2005. That's where I disagree with both you and the OP on this topic.
There's no way you can expect a bot-free or RMT-free experience in games like this nowadays, but it 'is' possible to negate them to a degree that they're practically non-existent problems for the rest of the community. Botting and exploits have just become far more difficult to face as MMO games continue to advance in scope, and Elder Scrolls Online is no different to that sad-but-true rule. ESO quite possibly has the largest playable game space for an MMO at launch, and along with that, I personally expected there to be major issues raising from all of that.
However, I didn't expect customer service to respond--nay--be as unresponsive as they are. All they do is copy-and-paste from a template and use that to respond to our problems, which is inexcusable.
I'm giving ZeniMax half-a-year. After that much time is up, MMO games don't usually play anywhere near like they originally launched, for the better (in most cases). WoW, GW, EQ, DAoC, FFXIV and many other MMOs have followed in that same pattern of getting better online services and a totally different, enhanced game experience to the point that they don't even remotely resemble what you played before. If these issues aren't negated by then, then I'm definitely unsubscribing.
But after finally being able to get into contact with GMs after how long I've been sending countless reports, seeing that ZeniMax are still managing to push large-content updates for their game while dealing with these botting issues, and with the hope that exploiters and botters get the due justice that they deserve (as in permanent bans), I have high-hopes that this game will see many more years ahead of it still.
Its there choices of how to fix the issues not the issues that turned my guild into a graveyard it went from a maxed out and fun guild to a place you only hear crickets. (:3 -
Attorneyatlawl✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭I can't even begin to imagine thinking what you guys posted in this thread... It shows so much inexperience or ignorance with the genre and the technical + managerial aspects of running this sort of enterprise it makes my head hurt.
Long story short, if you thought of it they did within 5 seconds of ever designing a feature bud. And no, most people don't exploit, nor do you and you alone have some magical insight into how to fix things.
The only real issues are weaponswap glitchiness and server lag in massive battles, the rest is par for the course or you not understanding how things like phasing work.-First-Wave Closed Beta Tester of the Psijic Order, aka the 0.016 percent.
Exploits suck. Don't blame just the game, blame the players abusing them!
-Playing since July 2013, back when we had a killspam channel in Cyrodiil and the lands of Tamriel were roamed by dinosaurs.
________________
-In-game mains abound with "Nerf" in their name. As I am asked occasionally, I do not play on anything but the PC NA Megaserver at this time.4 -
Genomic✭✭✭✭✭Re-subscribe please and support them, without our money they can't work
OTOH, you could say, rather than being a charity, they are owned by a billion-dollar company who spent millions on promotional hype and glittering promises which many people shelled out $60 for, only to be let down. In other words, perhaps they already have reaped more money than they deserved. They're a business, not 'Save the Children', and we're paying customers.
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Korozenn✭✭✭✭GossiTheDog wrote: »Reignskream wrote: »GossiTheDog wrote: »Here's the thing. Yes, it's an MMO launch. Yes, they have bugs. But: ts'. They need to acknowledge what has happened and try to get people back on board.
Yes, a little humility would serve them well at this time.
Nothing I would love more than a u turn in the game but they need to accept there is a problem first
What do you guys want, them to write a letter of apology or something?
With the Final Fantasy MMO, they managed to turn it around in a significant way by being completely honest with people, and ended up relaunching the game. It's now financially successful, and people have returned.
Agreed.
Both FFXIV and Diablo 3 were very similar cases with their fanbase. Most of the Final Fantasy and Diablo fanbases left said games shortly after both game releases due to many issues they both faced out-of-the-gate. However, both had their issues fixed in similar game-changing ways that brought fans back to said game.
While I don't think that Elder Scrolls Online would require something as massively game-changing as any of those two games, it is clear that many loyal fans to the game didn't get what they wanted out of their first free month of gameplay. Thus, people will unsubscribe and say their good-byes, as is normal after the first month of any MMO. However, it's not to say that people don't come back...that tends to be how MMO games run. You have your active and inactive periods of an MMO's life-cycle whether they are P2P or F2P. Do I think ZOS can turn things around for the game to reclaim their fanbase? Yes, I do, but it will take time. As with all successful MMO launches, ESO will need about three-to-four months until these problems get fixed, so I hope those people will consider coming back into the game by then if these issues are indeed resolved to a point that they no longer hamper our gameplay experience.
I 'do' think that ZeniMax needs to act against anyone who has unfairly taken advantage of any duping or XP exploits the game had at launch as well as bring justice to anyone who is participating in hacking, botting, other forms of exploitation, and RMT. Other than that, the only thing left to deal with would be working on bugs and new features for the game, which they are already doing a good job with, if the latest PTS Craglorn v1.1 (and v1.1.1) update has anything to prove of it.I just got hit by a critt of words and am ko, but serious you have a alot of valid points but they first nerf loot and provision mats into oblivion and dont fix a single quest were serious hundreds and hundreds of bots are day in day out.
Its there choices of how to fix the issues not the issues that turned my guild into a graveyard it went from a maxed out and fun guild to a place you only hear crickets. (:
I'm sorry to those of you that lost many guild members because of this. To me, it was bound to happen for those of you in public guilds and not invite-only ones because of the majority of gamers being off-and-on with their subscriptions as is the nature of games like this and the impersonal qualities of guilds when they do become open to the general public. I would advise you to start looking towards guilds that are more closed off and have more active members (active as in long-term subscriptions) as you'll find those usually have better communities as well to suit all of your in-game needs.
I run an invite-only guild and a lot of us are really close friends in the short time we've known each other since a couple of weeks ago (when I started the guild) and help each other out with a variety of activities in-game. This game just doesn't feel right without that close community of people you can talk with in-game. Due to its nature, we haven't had enough members to qualify for a guild store, but it's a like the story of the tortoise and hare. While it steadily grows, the members in it form close relationships that sometimes even get the chance to expand outside of game, which is how you see some guilds from other MMOs like WoW, GW, or EQ, make their way into future MMOs and continue to expand. At least, this is just all how I think of guilds from prior experience with other online game communities.
Edited by Korozenn on May 11, 2014 9:55PM3 -
Ojustaboo✭✭✭✭✭
✭My guild is a smallish guild that has played a few mmos. We have 51 playing ESO and only one isn't subbing at the moment but that's due to real life issues.
Yes I think the CS has been awful, yes there are things that need urgently addressing (how long it sometimes takes to log into Cyrodiil for example) but this is not the game it was a month ago, many many things have been fixed.
My main is just finishing Rivenspire, when I started playing, every single dungeon had bots in, some quests couldn't be completed, playing pvp with vamps and their bats became almost pointless.
Now:
I started an alt, have done the first 2 starter islands and 3/4 through Glenumbra and not found one quest bug or one bot in any dungeon.
I am on the last couple of quests in Rivenspire, having recently completed the excellent quest chain in Doomcrag. Not found one of them bugged, not had to re log to get something to spawn, all been perfect.
I have done all 5 of the scull and crossbones bosses, all public dungeons and I have not come across 1 bot in any of them in fact when I had fun finding obsidian scar very challenging by myself, I joked in guild chat saying if only they hadn't got rid of the bots, I wouldn't keep dying.
I pvp a bit and I love it. Tonight we had our first big guild PvP session, a couple of vets, most of us well under 50, more like between level 20 and 40.
It took a while for some of us to get in due to a que (eu server bloodthorn) and we all had excellent fun. About 5 pvp regularly, the other 10 don't. We managed to claim our first keep for our guild, we chased the scroll halfway across the entire map (along with loads of others not in our group) died time and time again due to the hordes of enemies we kept running into, those of us that pvp all the time commented on how much better pvp was now the vamps have been nerfed.
I left my guild still at it after 4 hrs, tons and tons of action, thinking your winning then seeing about 100 enemies coming at you from 3 directions was great fun.
My point being:
Yes I do think they launched it too early, I've yet to see an mmo that isn't. But I also think many of these issues would never have come to light until it was launched, so we would still have had problems whenever.
When I compare doing the 2 starter areas and Glenumbra now with an alt, to early access last month, it's almost incomparable, so many things fixed, so few problems now.
I know there are issues that need addressing, the bots in Coldharbour, the mat gathering bots, game bugs, lag, loading times or what ever problems people run into, but they have done a superb job in fixing many things in this short time since release and if thats any indication of how things will continue, then I am really looking forward to the future.
Their road ahead announcement is the icing on the cake for me.
I understand some people have had many more problems than I have and I understand why for some the game isn't what they expected, I just wanted to give an alternative point of view from someone whose entire guild is loving it (a friend has a guild of 97 and they are all subbing too) . These threads, while i understand and sympathise with the problems many have had, imply everyone is unsubbing, no one is happy, but from those I meet in game, the opposite is true.
Only zenimax know how many people leave, if 2000 find themselves unhappy for whatever reason and leave in a vocal manner it can look like the game is doomed, but the chances are, thousands and thousands more are happy playing, and most of those probably never even visit the forums.
Edited by Ojustaboo on May 12, 2014 12:00AM6 -
nez✭✭✭I really believe that main reason ppl leave (exclude huge one mistakes) is that the game isnt what we thought it will be, it becomes boring. I thought that i would enjoy it for a very long time and im full already. The only thing which somewhat entertains me now is posting some nonsense at forums and wait for some random zos guy to delete it, only thing they happen to be doing properly.Na na na na na na na na na na na na na na na na na na na na na na na na na na na na na na na na na na na na na Batmaaaan5 -
I unsubbed a few days ago, feel ripped off to have paid $80 on such an unpolished product. Trying to enjoy my last few days doing dungeons, took my group 25 minutes of relogging, reforming group to be able to see eachother in game.
Im VR10 and im farming Wayrest and i never had this problem.. I had this during the beta but not now, and i dont know anyone who has had this problem either.. You sure youre not phased or somethign?
The worst blind is the one who doesn't want to see... the fact that you didn't run on this issues does not mean that a lot do and why do you think they bother saying it...
you silly fb are impossible.
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Atreidus✭✭✭I thought that here is an "No goodbye thread" rule?
However. It is new. And they need to work at an load of Stuff here. I would sugegst at the main problem 1st:
Users get answers like the Users are complete PC amateurs with the badest internet. Even If they know that the problem is at their server.
Public Test server only for invited ones? where the.. is this public please?
It is closed test server then.
And at last: they shall finaly release the huge patch to fix that bugs instead of waiting until they do craglorn and the bugs are getting worser.
I know that at this time just 1 Guild is allowed to test craglorn.(and i know they doing an mess like 60 revives before reset only).
I bet they wont test much and there will be to much elitism rules. Cause no one of us paying"noobs" is gettig asked.
We are only allowed to /bug report that mess they left then after the "finished" test.
I hate it to be an 2nd class"beta tester" and to have to pay for it.Edited by Atreidus on May 12, 2014 1:26AM6 -
Reignskream wrote: »Well, no company should be playing trial and error on customer time and money. When a company charges a sub it's a statement that, "we are so confident in our ability to manage this product that you are willingly going to pay us to do it".
It's not a case of, "please bung us a tenner a month while we play trial and error for 6 months."
I am afraid that's not how the customer supplier relationship works.
If they were still at trial and error stage they should not have released it, because it's simply not tenable to charge people for experimentation. Customers will do what they are doing, and take their money elsewhere.Reignskream wrote: »
New company, new problems, new bugs, old bugs, repeatable bugs. It's going to be a trial and error for the next 6 months.
And I'm sure if ZOS could keep everyone happy, and not do a trial and error type thing they would, because that is more money for them. But it's a brand new MMO, problems will arise as such, its bound to happen all the time for a couple more months until things even out.
WoW still has bugs going on, and botters, and gold sellers, and they have new bugs arise, and all that good stuff. But they've had so long to work with it, that they manage it VERY well in my opinion.
This is whats happening with ESO, it's just that its a new company doing this, and not as experienced. Time will tell everything, and who knows, maybe ZOS will turn out to suck! -- But for now, its too early to say.
Well, look at WOW customer service: 24/7 in game GMs, forum GMs responses and involvement, Solid, helpful ticket response and follow up, hell they try to contact me to tell them if the problems were fixed. Look at ZO customer service..."shameful display!"
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Attorneyatlawl✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭I thought that here is an "No goodbye thread" rule?
However. It is new. And they need to work at an load of Stuff here. I would sugegst at the main problem 1st:
Users get answers like the Users are complete PC amateurs with the badest internet. Even If they know that the problem is at their server.
Public Test server only for invited ones? where the.. is this public please?
It is closed test server then.
And at last: they shall finaly release the huge patch to fix that bugs instead of waiting until they do craglorn and the bugs are getting worser.
I know that at this time just 1 Guild is allowed to test craglorn.(and i know they doing an mess like 60 revives before reset only).
I bet they wont test much and there will be to much elitism rules. Cause no one of us paying"noobs" is gettig asked.
We are only allowed to /bug report that mess they left then after the "finished" test.
I hate it to be an 2nd class"beta tester" and to have to pay for it.
Actually anyone in the closed beta can test craglorn right now. The public test server will be public soon enough anyway for future patches. Also most people don't actually know much about computers so when they post asking for help it is best to go over the basics before moving to anything advanced. They do that because usually the basics fix it.-First-Wave Closed Beta Tester of the Psijic Order, aka the 0.016 percent.
Exploits suck. Don't blame just the game, blame the players abusing them!
-Playing since July 2013, back when we had a killspam channel in Cyrodiil and the lands of Tamriel were roamed by dinosaurs.
________________
-In-game mains abound with "Nerf" in their name. As I am asked occasionally, I do not play on anything but the PC NA Megaserver at this time.0 -
Atreidus✭✭✭There is an message at the pts launcher that this one guild can.
But ok. I give it some time.Edited by Atreidus on May 12, 2014 1:52AM1
