Please consider undoing the Skeletal Mage/Archer nerf from U35.

CameraBeardThePirate · July 9

In U35, the Skeletal Minions were stealth nerfed by 50%. The nerf was not listed in the patch notes nor communicated, but the minions received a 50% nerf nonetheless. This was likely done alongside all the other DoT nerfs, however, these abilities do not count as DoTs and are instead categorized as direct damage. Their damage can be blocked, cannot proc sets, and the pets cannot be commanded to target specific enemies like Sorc and Warden pets can.

These quirks hold the abilities back compared to other DoTs. Please Consider rebuffing the damage of these abilities to make up for the inconsistent targeting, inability to proc sets, and ability for the damage to be blocked. The Major Sorcery/Brutality buff is a great idea on these abilities, but slotting them is still a tough sell because they don't do much outside of proccing your passives and providing a corpse.

Necrotech_Master · July 9

absolutely, their dmg is way too low

i think they should actually also be changed from direct dmg, to do some kind of channeled DoT on a target

right now its nearly impossible to see who the archer is attacking (its more obvious with the mage for sure), they can retain their bonuses of archer doing stronger dmg on each tick and remain single target while mage can continue doing aoe constant dmg

StarOfElyon · July 9

It's amazing how necromancer players have to beg for their class to be good while nightblades just exist as an S-tier pvp class and get buffs every patch.

master_vanargand · July 9

StarOfElyon wrote: »

It's amazing how necromancer players have to beg for their class to be good while nightblades just exist as an S-tier pvp class and get buffs every patch.

Did you forget that Nightblade had its "+10% damage buff" removed in the old update?
There are no class in ESO that only get buffs. Don't lie.

CameraBeardThePirate · July 9

master_vanargand wrote: »

StarOfElyon wrote: »

It's amazing how necromancer players have to beg for their class to be good while nightblades just exist as an S-tier pvp class and get buffs every patch.

Did you forget that Nightblade had its "+10% damage buff" removed in the old update?
There are no class in ESO that only get buffs. Don't lie.

Which was offset by giving nightblades infinite sustain with the Siphoning buff, allowing them to more than make up for the loss in damage by removing sustain from their gear/food/mundus.

Maybe consider all aspects of class balance. That patch was undeniably a buff for nightblades.

xDeusEJRx · July 9

Yeah agreed, it was weird how this was never addressed as as change to begin with

xylena_lazarow · July 9

Undo all of u35 please.

master_vanargand · July 9

CameraBeardThePirate wrote: »

master_vanargand wrote: »

StarOfElyon wrote: »

It's amazing how necromancer players have to beg for their class to be good while nightblades just exist as an S-tier pvp class and get buffs every patch.

Did you forget that Nightblade had its "+10% damage buff" removed in the old update?
There are no class in ESO that only get buffs. Don't lie.

Which was offset by giving nightblades infinite sustain with the Siphoning buff, allowing them to more than make up for the loss in damage by removing sustain from their gear/food/mundus.

Maybe consider all aspects of class balance. That patch was undeniably a buff for nightblades.

Since hybridization happened, resource recovery has become less important for PvE DPS.
The only DPS using Siphoning Strikes in Group Dungeons or Trials are beginners.
Great update for Tank and Healer, but losing the "+10% damage buff" was a nightmare for PvE Nightblade DPS.

Twohothardware · July 9

This. Skeletal Mage does next to non-existent damage to players in Cyrodiil so it’s a wasted skill slot to use it just for Major Brutality/Sorcery.

The damage of Skeletal Mage needs to be doubled or move the new Major Brutality/Sorcery buff to another class skill like Blastbones.

Alaztor91 · July 9

Are these DoTs?
Do they provide a Major Buff(after patch)?

One was released after U35, one wasn't ''adjusted'' in U35.
Guess which of the 3 is the one that deals lower damage.

Necrotech_Master · July 9

Alaztor91 wrote: »

Are these DoTs?
Do they provide a Major Buff(after patch)?

One was released after U35, one wasn't ''adjusted'' in U35.
Guess which of the 3 is the one that deals lower damage.

technically speaking, none of those are dots lol

the skeletal mage/archer is probably the closest to an actual dot though due to the frequency of the attacks (every 2 sec is the same tick rate as a sticky dot)

just based on the numbers shown, if you look at a "per second" dps rating:

flames - 1799 dmg every 5 sec, equates ~360 dmg per second
skeletal - 463 dmg every 2 sec, equates ~231 dmg per second on the first tick, though this would increase over time for the archer due to the scaling dmg, if i think the calculation is right would actually get near or surpass the dmg per second from flames
scholarship - 935 dmg every 3 sec, equates to ~311 dmg per second

the skeletal mage i think might be a bit behind, but it has more aoe potential than both flames (max 3 targets) and scholarship (max 1 target), the skeletal archer starts worse but by the 10th tick would likely be at a minimum equal or surpassing the other 2 in terms of dmg per second in PVE (in pvp it might not work that well because players are more tanky and the scaling dmg is based on the previous dmg dealt)

i think the problem why the archer feels less impactful is its not aoe, and you cant direct it to hit a specific target, and the mage feels less impactful because the per hit dmg does not feel great being a single projectile, small aoe, and again unable to direct it to hit a specific target so it might not be efficiently using its aoe

FuryOfTyphon · July 10

Please move Major Brutality/Sorcery onto Blastbones instead.
Throw a bone to both the PvErs and PvPers.. Not just one of them.
K thx bye.

Yamenstein · July 10

StarOfElyon wrote: »

It's amazing how necromancer players have to beg for their class to be good while nightblades just exist as an S-tier pvp class and get buffs every patch.

Cause Gilliam was a major NB fan.

robpr · July 10

CameraBeardThePirate wrote: »

Their damage can be blocked, cannot proc sets, and the pets cannot be commanded to target specific enemies like Sorc and Warden pets can.

Small correction, skelly archer do follow HA or command pet button but you know how it goes in a fight, once you notice archer shooting at invulnerable add in SS its already half of its duration. They could have use of a skill that forces them to change the target. Ideally it would be they attack things that were at your crosshair while summoning them.

Turtle_Bot · July 10

That change to mage/archer still confuses me to this day. They're pets but also somehow not pets at the same time, but they get none of the benefits from things that buff pets OR DoTs.

C_Inside · July 10

I'm seeing a lot of people discussing Archer in terms of pvp, but don't worry, it's just as bad in pve. I did some parsing today on my necro against the target skeleton. 1 setup used Archer in the rotation, the other just used it as a pre-buff and didn't actually use it in the rotation. 3 full parses each with both setups. Guess which one wound up doing more damage.

In every single cases the setup that only used Archer as a pre-buff wound up doing more damage by between 500 and 1000 points. You're literally doing less damage if you use Archer in your rotation. Absolutely amazing.

The addition of Sorcery/Brutality is largely useless in pve since if you're a dps you're almost always using Essence of Weapon/Spell power. The only time you use anything else is in super niche scenarios where you use Heroism potions if there's a dragonknight in the party using Igneous Weapon and you have the Major crit chance buffs covered from Inner Light/Camo Hunter/Some other skill.

CameraBeardThePirate · July 10

robpr wrote: »

CameraBeardThePirate wrote: »

Their damage can be blocked, cannot proc sets, and the pets cannot be commanded to target specific enemies like Sorc and Warden pets can.

Small correction, skelly archer do follow HA or command pet button but you know how it goes in a fight, once you notice archer shooting at invulnerable add in SS its already half of its duration. They could have use of a skill that forces them to change the target. Ideally it would be they attack things that were at your crosshair while summoning them.

They do not follow HA or the Command Pet keybind. They target the "closest enemy".

If you have video proof to show otherwise, by all means show it.

Twohothardware · July 10

Necrotech_Master wrote: »

Alaztor91 wrote: »

Are these DoTs?
Do they provide a Major Buff(after patch)?

One was released after U35, one wasn't ''adjusted'' in U35.
Guess which of the 3 is the one that deals lower damage.

technically speaking, none of those are dots lol

the skeletal mage/archer is probably the closest to an actual dot though due to the frequency of the attacks (every 2 sec is the same tick rate as a sticky dot)

just based on the numbers shown, if you look at a "per second" dps rating:

flames - 1799 dmg every 5 sec, equates ~360 dmg per second
skeletal - 463 dmg every 2 sec, equates ~231 dmg per second on the first tick, though this would increase over time for the archer due to the scaling dmg, if i think the calculation is right would actually get near or surpass the dmg per second from flames
scholarship - 935 dmg every 3 sec, equates to ~311 dmg per second

the skeletal mage i think might be a bit behind, but it has more aoe potential than both flames (max 3 targets) and scholarship (max 1 target), the skeletal archer starts worse but by the 10th tick would likely be at a minimum equal or surpassing the other 2 in terms of dmg per second in PVE (in pvp it might not work that well because players are more tanky and the scaling dmg is based on the previous dmg dealt)

i think the problem why the archer feels less impactful is its not aoe, and you cant direct it to hit a specific target, and the mage feels less impactful because the per hit dmg does not feel great being a single projectile, small aoe, and again unable to direct it to hit a specific target so it might not be efficiently using its aoe

There’s a massive difference between flames of oblivion and skeletal archer. You can spam flames to repeatedly launch attacks at three targets and buff up whip.

Necro’s Skeletal Archer is most close to Nighblades Shade damage except that Shade does way more with allowing you to teleport to its position.

Skeletal Archer is just such a bad skill.

Necrotech_Master · July 10

Twohothardware wrote: »

Necrotech_Master wrote: »

Alaztor91 wrote: »

Are these DoTs?
Do they provide a Major Buff(after patch)?

One was released after U35, one wasn't ''adjusted'' in U35.
Guess which of the 3 is the one that deals lower damage.

technically speaking, none of those are dots lol

the skeletal mage/archer is probably the closest to an actual dot though due to the frequency of the attacks (every 2 sec is the same tick rate as a sticky dot)

just based on the numbers shown, if you look at a "per second" dps rating:

flames - 1799 dmg every 5 sec, equates ~360 dmg per second
skeletal - 463 dmg every 2 sec, equates ~231 dmg per second on the first tick, though this would increase over time for the archer due to the scaling dmg, if i think the calculation is right would actually get near or surpass the dmg per second from flames
scholarship - 935 dmg every 3 sec, equates to ~311 dmg per second

the skeletal mage i think might be a bit behind, but it has more aoe potential than both flames (max 3 targets) and scholarship (max 1 target), the skeletal archer starts worse but by the 10th tick would likely be at a minimum equal or surpassing the other 2 in terms of dmg per second in PVE (in pvp it might not work that well because players are more tanky and the scaling dmg is based on the previous dmg dealt)

i think the problem why the archer feels less impactful is its not aoe, and you cant direct it to hit a specific target, and the mage feels less impactful because the per hit dmg does not feel great being a single projectile, small aoe, and again unable to direct it to hit a specific target so it might not be efficiently using its aoe

There’s a massive difference between flames of oblivion and skeletal archer. You can spam flames to repeatedly launch attacks at three targets and buff up whip.

Necro’s Skeletal Archer is most close to Nighblades Shade damage except that Shade does way more with allowing you to teleport to its position.

Skeletal Archer is just such a bad skill.

while true, if you are spamming flames, your losing dmg because its like half the dmg of a true spammable like whip

i think the archer could be better if it had better ramping dmg, like just +50% more dmg per tick, instead of 15% of dmg dealt, so enemies who are heavily resistant or enemies with flat out dmg immunity phases wont destroy its scaling

StarOfElyon · July 10

master_vanargand wrote: »

StarOfElyon wrote: »

It's amazing how necromancer players have to beg for their class to be good while nightblades just exist as an S-tier pvp class and get buffs every patch.

Did you forget that Nightblade had its "+10% damage buff" removed in the old update?
There are no class in ESO that only get buffs. Don't lie.

That was a buff that was given and then taken away, while they were buffed/simplified in other areas. And now they can get +10 damage by a set. At the very least, they get something good every single patch.

(And I play all classes so I take notice of who gets what)

StarOfElyon · July 10

Yamenstein wrote: »

StarOfElyon wrote: »

It's amazing how necromancer players have to beg for their class to be good while nightblades just exist as an S-tier pvp class and get buffs every patch.

Cause Gilliam was a major NB fan.

Which is disappointing because his videos gave me the impression that he would be fair and objective at ZOS.