35k+ to relist an Aetheric Cypher after only 14 days

reazea · June 26

LaintalAy wrote: »

ProudMary wrote: »

LaintalAy wrote: »

CrazyKitty wrote: »

Some of the posters in this thread are posting comments that are not rational.

Let's go with a real life example to make the point.

I have a car that Kelly Blue Book says is worth 20k. If I want to sell my car quickly, should I put it on the market for 18k or for 10k? Sure, it will sell really fast for 10k because the asking price is half what it's worth, but is it a reasonable argument to claim I should try to sell the car for 10K?

Dark_Lord_Kuro wrote: »

They should cutblisting fees by 50%

This is a reasonable point. If the listing time is half what it used to be, the listing fee should also be half what it used to be. The argument given to us by ZOS was that cutting the listing times to 14 days would free up server resources. They said nothing about trying to create a gold sink.

The 14 day listing time effectively penalizes everyone who relies on guild sales to earn gold, and disproportionately impacts the long time vet players who typically have more items of high value to sell.

I feel like this is another little step toward making ESO a strictly casual questing game by reducing yet another competitive aspect of the game.

There is no 'Kelly Blue Book' in ESO.
TTC is no equivalent.

Therefore, using your example:

You could pay to advertise your car for one month at 18K and it might sell. If it doesn't, then you'd need to spend more money to advertise it again. You are paying to advertise, as people don't just automatically know that you are selling your car.

Another flaw in your example is that you haven't mentioned the initial cost of your car.
Did you get it for free? Then it doesn't really matter what you sell it for, as you don't need to recoup the cost.

If not, then I don't need to discuss the reality of what you actually paid for the car.
That would completely destroy your argument.

The points Crazykitty are making in this thread are valid and sensible. Whereas your points make no sense to me.

Let me put it this way:
Let's assume that I don't subscribe to ESO+
My bank space is limited to 240 for all items. This can be exceeded just with crafting mats alone

You can buy 360 extra spaces in chests. Use crafting writs or crowns, I don't care.

Once you have trained your mount for 60 days straight and spent 3600 Crowns for the 3 pack animals, you have 215 bag

Giving a total of 815 spaces

So what if that isn't enough?
You can join five guilds and gain an extra 150 spaces until they sell or expire after 30 days.

Once expired, they can then sit in your mail account for 30? days.

all for ***free***

So before the changes, one or more items may have sat in a guild trading slot for thirty days, then expired and floated into your mail account for another 30 days. So 60 days without ever needing to go into either your bank or your bag.

Now it's a total of 28.

This is what these changes are really about.
It is not really comparable to the second-hand car market.

Your post fails to address the issue at hand, and that issue is that the 14 day listing limitation is an unnecessary inconvenience and expense that does not achieve the goal ZOS says it was implemented to achieve.

LaintalAy · June 26

reazea wrote: »

snip

Your post fails to address the issue at hand, and that issue is that the 14 day listing limitation is an unnecessary inconvenience and expense that does not achieve the goal ZOS says it was implemented to achieve.

What it says, is that players are using trader and mail slots as storage. I don't know what reason ZOS gave, but whatever overheads were present before, they are now reduced by more than 50%.

If we take the Aetheric Cipher as an example. A player can literally forget about it for close to two months under the old system, while they 'hang out' for a sale at their fantasy price.

If something takes more than 30 days to sell, it is OVERPRICED. This has been reinforced by players who actively trade, over and over again.

I don't think anyone will even pay 1M for this item anymore.

The mats to create the final product are too expensive.
The sale price of the finished product is too expensive, as a result.
Other products are cheaper and easier to make and sell.
It's very likely that the players that use this, now make it themselves.

THERE IS NO MARKET FOR THIS OVERPRICED ITEM. Otherwise, it would sell in 3 days at the asked price.

What ZOS are saying to you (if you choose to listen) is that the days of hoarding these unsaleable overpriced whale-items are over. Your options now are:

Store them in your regular storage until the market returns, if ever.
Pay every 14 days to list at unrealistic prices in the hope that one day someone might be desperate enough to buy it.
Keep dropping the price until it does sell

On the last point; that will be the item's true value.

LPapirius · June 27

The 14 day listing limitation is an unreasonably short time for items to be listed on guild vendors. It creates a situation where players have to spend too much time managing their guild store rather than focusing on playing the game. None of the points people have tried to make refute this fact.

jle30303 · June 27

CrazyKitty wrote: »

Just for the record, I checked TTC to see if my listing was competively priced before listing. I listed my cipher for 300k less than any other TTC listing for the item.

The problem is since ZOS has decided to focus on so much casual play the markets for buying and selling anything have slowed very significantly. New players don't have the funds to purchase the high dollar items, nor do they need them if they only log on once a week and don't do much other than a few casual quests. U35 ran off too many of the hard core vet players and ZOS isn't doing anything to bring them back.

But vet players... don't need those high dollar items because they *already have them*. With items like Aetheric Ciphers, the market is ONLY people who don't have it. It's a non-repeatable sale. Nobody wants it on two characters.

So, yes, the demand for the item at the higher prices no longer exists. Price according to demand: if demand is low, price your item lower.

Simples.

belial5221_ESO · June 27

14 days is more than enoguh time,cause I sell lots of stuff higher priced,but in a good location,reasonably priced,and in demand within a few days.A few items that aren't in demand, I relist, store for later, or destroy.Not everything will sell fast,or maybe at all. Not understanding reasonable reasons why something won't sell in 2 weeks,is called being stubborn.

Vicquemare · June 27

Just get rid of the listing fee and the problem with reduced listing time is resolved.

GooGa592 · June 27

belial5221_ESO wrote: »

14 days is more than enoguh time,cause I sell lots of stuff higher priced,but in a good location,reasonably priced,and in demand within a few days.A few items that aren't in demand, I relist, store for later, or destroy.Not everything will sell fast,or maybe at all. Not understanding reasonable reasons why something won't sell in 2 weeks,is called being stubborn.

No it's not. There is no reasonable justification for the 14 listing limitation. It's just a massive pain in the rear for those of use who max out all sales slots in three or more trade guilds. The people who think this is great are not those who have many items to sell or rely upon guild store sales to finance their many experimental builds and game participation.

This 14 day listing limitation is already reducing play time for many of us. It's just tedious and unnecessary.

Vicquemare wrote: »

Just get rid of the listing fee and the problem with reduced listing time is resolved.

Or at least cut the listing fee in half to match the halving of the listing time.

LaintalAy · June 27

GooGa592 wrote: »

belial5221_ESO wrote: »

14 days is more than enoguh time,cause I sell lots of stuff higher priced,but in a good location,reasonably priced,and in demand within a few days.A few items that aren't in demand, I relist, store for later, or destroy.Not everything will sell fast,or maybe at all. Not understanding reasonable reasons why something won't sell in 2 weeks,is called being stubborn.

No it's not. There is no reasonable justification for the 14 listing limitation. It's just a massive pain in the rear for those of use who max out all sales slots in three or more trade guilds. The people who think this is great are not those who have many items to sell or rely upon guild store sales to finance their many experimental builds and game participation.

This 14 day listing limitation is already reducing play time for many of us. It's just tedious and unnecessary.

Vicquemare wrote: »

Just get rid of the listing fee and the problem with reduced listing time is resolved.

Or at least cut the listing fee in half to match the halving of the listing time.

How will reducing the listing fee help with your stated problem:

This 14 day listing limitation is already reducing play time for many of us.

It won't, will it?

I've made 3 million in the past 24 hours, simply by cutting my prices for all mats basically in half. Proving once again, that it is overpricing that is slowing sales and nothing else.

Yes, they appear to have gone to flippers. Why should I care about that? If someone pays a ridiculously overpriced figure because they don't have the capacity to travel outside of Vivic, that's their problem.

Orsinium
Grahtwood
Lleyawin
Rawl'ka

are the locations of my traders, in order of sales. Nothing special there, no even fees. I think the Grahtwood trader has an easy 50K minimum. The others might be hoping for a donation.

This whole issue is a storm-in-a-teacup whipped up by stubborn players that refuse to understand that things have changed and that it's time to move on.

katanagirl1 · June 28

LaintalAy wrote: »

GooGa592 wrote: »

belial5221_ESO wrote: »

14 days is more than enoguh time,cause I sell lots of stuff higher priced,but in a good location,reasonably priced,and in demand within a few days.A few items that aren't in demand, I relist, store for later, or destroy.Not everything will sell fast,or maybe at all. Not understanding reasonable reasons why something won't sell in 2 weeks,is called being stubborn.

No it's not. There is no reasonable justification for the 14 listing limitation. It's just a massive pain in the rear for those of use who max out all sales slots in three or more trade guilds. The people who think this is great are not those who have many items to sell or rely upon guild store sales to finance their many experimental builds and game participation.

This 14 day listing limitation is already reducing play time for many of us. It's just tedious and unnecessary.

Vicquemare wrote: »

Just get rid of the listing fee and the problem with reduced listing time is resolved.

Or at least cut the listing fee in half to match the halving of the listing time.

How will reducing the listing fee help with your stated problem:

This 14 day listing limitation is already reducing play time for many of us.

It won't, will it?

I've made 3 million in the past 24 hours, simply by cutting my prices for all mats basically in half. Proving once again, that it is overpricing that is slowing sales and nothing else.

Yes, they appear to have gone to flippers. Why should I care about that? If someone pays a ridiculously overpriced figure because they don't have the capacity to travel outside of Vivic, that's their problem.

Orsinium
Grahtwood
Lleyawin
Rawl'ka

are the locations of my traders, in order of sales. Nothing special there, no even fees. I think the Grahtwood trader has an easy 50K minimum. The others might be hoping for a donation.

This whole issue is a storm-in-a-teacup whipped up by stubborn players that refuse to understand that things have changed and that it's time to move on.

So I’ve been wondering what you sell since you keep saying anything that takes more than 14 days to sell is overpriced. You sell mats. You sell them quickly and can restock the trader right away. You can always get more.

That is an item that is constantly being bought and used. I can gather mats and in a hour get a fair amount of base mats, refine and get refinement upgrade mats. The one thing I won’t get is lots of furnishing mats. I can also do an hour of surveys and get even more mats.

Something like furnishing plans is a one time purchase per character. I can farm for hours and only get (on average) a couple of blue zone plans from the latest chapter. I might be lucky to get a purple plan once a week. I get a bunch of base game plans but they are virtually worthless.

You cannot compare the two and justify the short listing time for the latter. I haven’t priced purple West Weald plans yet but Necrom and Apocrypha plans are listed for 100k to 3mil depending on the plan. It’s going to take a while to find the right buyer for that. It takes time to get those plans and the price reflects that.

People might say go farm your own plan but it’s not like mats. I can’t just farm a particular plan so relying on traders to fill what I don’t get is a necessity. I sell the duplicates to buy the ones I need.

h9dlb · June 28

Just to prove these new changes are unpopular and many have stopped playing including me - Steamstats (Yes I know a lot don't use steam but it is broadly indicative) shows the game had around 27,000 players at the update launch 3rd June '24, it's now down to average 17,000 players, so zos managed to lose 10,000 (37%) steam players in 3 weeks

sarahthes · June 28

h9dlb wrote: »

Just to prove these new changes are unpopular and many have stopped playing including me - Steamstats (Yes I know a lot don't use steam but it is broadly indicative) shows the game had around 27,000 players at the update launch 3rd June '24, it's now down to average 17,000 players, so zos managed to lose 10,000 (37%) steam players in 3 weeks

I think that's likely got more to do with scribing being unengaging, the story being short (many people only play for the new stories), and the game being kinda unstable lately.

Jaraal · June 28

bmnoble wrote: »

Even before this change, I knew plenty who were unhappy paying the listing fee for 30 days listings and taxes, do what they did, sell high priced stuff in zone chat.

Yes, zone chat sales spam has increased considerably since the inception of the 14 day listings.

Combine this with depressed sales, people selling things for less because nobody's buying, guilds being unable to rent traders due to depressed sales, players destroying or vendoring things instead of relisting and paying a double fee, and new gold entering the economy at the same rate as always.... and any potential "gold sink" created by shortened listing is negated.

In one fell swoop ZOS has crippled the economy, and it will be interesting to see how things play out from here.

sarahthes · June 28

Jaraal wrote: »

bmnoble wrote: »

Even before this change, I knew plenty who were unhappy paying the listing fee for 30 days listings and taxes, do what they did, sell high priced stuff in zone chat.

Yes, zone chat sales spam has increased considerably since the inception of the 14 day listings.

Combine this with depressed sales, people selling things for less because nobody's buying, guilds being unable to rent traders due to depressed sales, players destroying or vendoring things instead of relisting and paying a double fee, and new gold entering the economy at the same rate as always.... and any potential "gold sink" created by shortened listing is negated.

In one fell swoop ZOS has crippled the economy, and it will be interesting to see how things play out from here.

Is it only PC NA that has had the economy crash? or everywhere else too?

Because PC NA was long overdue a correction.

NoTimeToWait · June 28

h9dlb wrote: »

Just to prove these new changes are unpopular and many have stopped playing including me - Steamstats (Yes I know a lot don't use steam but it is broadly indicative) shows the game had around 27,000 players at the update launch 3rd June '24, it's now down to average 17,000 players, so zos managed to lose 10,000 (37%) steam players in 3 weeks

While there is definitely a slump in player activity (also due to ppl playing less games in summer), it's not that big. If you look at previous month, the average was at around 19-20k players 1-2k players more than it is now, so it can as well be attributed to other factors. Burnout is one of them, it was the longest Anniversary to date, and ppl were quite upset at the time. Some of those people just postponed taking a break because of the upcoming new chapter.

Although I dislike some of the changes, mainly the trading and mail sorting ones, I don't think that it is a main cause

ProudMary · June 28

LaintalAy wrote: »

GooGa592 wrote: »

belial5221_ESO wrote: »

14 days is more than enoguh time,cause I sell lots of stuff higher priced,but in a good location,reasonably priced,and in demand within a few days.A few items that aren't in demand, I relist, store for later, or destroy.Not everything will sell fast,or maybe at all. Not understanding reasonable reasons why something won't sell in 2 weeks,is called being stubborn.

No it's not. There is no reasonable justification for the 14 listing limitation. It's just a massive pain in the rear for those of use who max out all sales slots in three or more trade guilds. The people who think this is great are not those who have many items to sell or rely upon guild store sales to finance their many experimental builds and game participation.

This 14 day listing limitation is already reducing play time for many of us. It's just tedious and unnecessary.

Vicquemare wrote: »

Just get rid of the listing fee and the problem with reduced listing time is resolved.

Or at least cut the listing fee in half to match the halving of the listing time.

How will reducing the listing fee help with your stated problem:

This 14 day listing limitation is already reducing play time for many of us.

It won't, will it?

I've made 3 million in the past 24 hours, simply by cutting my prices for all mats basically in half. Proving once again, that it is overpricing that is slowing sales and nothing else.

Yes, they appear to have gone to flippers. Why should I care about that? If someone pays a ridiculously overpriced figure because they don't have the capacity to travel outside of Vivic, that's their problem.

Orsinium
Grahtwood
Lleyawin
Rawl'ka

are the locations of my traders, in order of sales. Nothing special there, no even fees. I think the Grahtwood trader has an easy 50K minimum. The others might be hoping for a donation.

This whole issue is a storm-in-a-teacup whipped up by stubborn players that refuse to understand that things have changed and that it's time to move on.

Just because the 14 day listing limitation doesn't affect those that don't do much selling doesn't mean it isn't a real, significant issue for those of us who do. You can keep trying to minimize the situation but the effort won't change anything. And it strains credibility to say you are a member of 4 trade guilds but you're not bothered by the 14 day listing limitation.

The 14 day listing limitation is an unnecessary inconvenience that does not achieve the goals ZOS stated the limitation was implemented to solve. It just creates major hassles for those of us who rely heavily on guild vendor sales.

NoTimeToWait · June 28

ProudMary wrote: »

LaintalAy wrote: »

GooGa592 wrote: »

belial5221_ESO wrote: »

14 days is more than enoguh time,cause I sell lots of stuff higher priced,but in a good location,reasonably priced,and in demand within a few days.A few items that aren't in demand, I relist, store for later, or destroy.Not everything will sell fast,or maybe at all. Not understanding reasonable reasons why something won't sell in 2 weeks,is called being stubborn.

No it's not. There is no reasonable justification for the 14 listing limitation. It's just a massive pain in the rear for those of use who max out all sales slots in three or more trade guilds. The people who think this is great are not those who have many items to sell or rely upon guild store sales to finance their many experimental builds and game participation.

This 14 day listing limitation is already reducing play time for many of us. It's just tedious and unnecessary.

Vicquemare wrote: »

Just get rid of the listing fee and the problem with reduced listing time is resolved.

Or at least cut the listing fee in half to match the halving of the listing time.

How will reducing the listing fee help with your stated problem:

This 14 day listing limitation is already reducing play time for many of us.

It won't, will it?

I've made 3 million in the past 24 hours, simply by cutting my prices for all mats basically in half. Proving once again, that it is overpricing that is slowing sales and nothing else.

Yes, they appear to have gone to flippers. Why should I care about that? If someone pays a ridiculously overpriced figure because they don't have the capacity to travel outside of Vivic, that's their problem.

Orsinium
Grahtwood
Lleyawin
Rawl'ka

are the locations of my traders, in order of sales. Nothing special there, no even fees. I think the Grahtwood trader has an easy 50K minimum. The others might be hoping for a donation.

This whole issue is a storm-in-a-teacup whipped up by stubborn players that refuse to understand that things have changed and that it's time to move on.

Just because the 14 day listing limitation doesn't affect those that don't do much selling doesn't mean it isn't a real, significant issue for those of us who do. You can keep trying to minimize the situation but the effort won't change anything. And it strains credibility to say you are a member of 4 trade guilds but you're not bothered by the 14 day listing limitation.

The 14 day listing limitation is an unnecessary inconvenience that does not achieve the goals ZOS stated the limitation was implemented to solve. It just creates major hassles for those of us who rely heavily on guild vendor sales.

Tbh, I don't really see how any savvy trader would be happy with the 30->14 change.
While I can deal with markets crashing, that's definitely a part of being a trader, I don't want to deal with 14 days listings.

I am still confused why devs made the cut so drastic. Like that only makes sense if they want to make players log on more frequently and they want that badly.

EdjeSwift · June 28

NoTimeToWait wrote: »

Tbh, I don't really see how any savvy trader would be happy with the 30->14 change.
While I can deal with markets crashing, that's definitely a part of being a trader, I don't want to deal with 14 days listings.

I am still confused why devs made the cut so drastic. Like that only makes sense if they want to make players log on more frequently and they want that badly.

They explained the reasoning/logic for the change months ago. Their research/logs(whatever that may be) showed that the majority/vast majority(can't remember the wording) of listings sold within 14 days. The exact same arguments here were made then and it was basically, "High value/low demand item selling will suffer" and this was countered much like it was here, "Then don't sell it so high, adjust accordingly".

Edit: Found the comment: https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/comment/8102992/#Comment_8102992 Kevin does say "Vast Majority"

Jaraal · June 28

sarahthes wrote: »

Jaraal wrote: »

bmnoble wrote: »

Even before this change, I knew plenty who were unhappy paying the listing fee for 30 days listings and taxes, do what they did, sell high priced stuff in zone chat.

Yes, zone chat sales spam has increased considerably since the inception of the 14 day listings.

Combine this with depressed sales, people selling things for less because nobody's buying, guilds being unable to rent traders due to depressed sales, players destroying or vendoring things instead of relisting and paying a double fee, and new gold entering the economy at the same rate as always.... and any potential "gold sink" created by shortened listing is negated.

In one fell swoop ZOS has crippled the economy, and it will be interesting to see how things play out from here.

Is it only PC NA that has had the economy crash? or everywhere else too?

Because PC NA was long overdue a correction.

The "correction" is that the same amount of gold will be entering the system from killing, stealing, questing, and ZOS handing out 100,000 gold every month, but with lower prices and less availability, inflation will increase. People will be sitting on more gold that they can't spend. Eventually, the rebound prices will be much higher than they were before Update 42. And the rich people that are now buying up all the cheap mats and big ticket items with slashed prices will make a killing.

NoTimeToWait · June 28

EdjeSwift wrote: »

NoTimeToWait wrote: »

Tbh, I don't really see how any savvy trader would be happy with the 30->14 change.
While I can deal with markets crashing, that's definitely a part of being a trader, I don't want to deal with 14 days listings.

I am still confused why devs made the cut so drastic. Like that only makes sense if they want to make players log on more frequently and they want that badly.

They explained the reasoning/logic for the change months ago. Their research/logs(whatever that may be) showed that the majority/vast majority(can't remember the wording) of listings sold within 14 days. The exact same arguments here were made then and it was basically, "High value/low demand item selling will suffer" and this was countered much like it was here, "Then don't sell it so high, adjust accordingly".

Edit: Found the comment: https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/comment/8102992/#Comment_8102992 Kevin does say "Vast Majority"

Thanks, I appreciate you finding that post, but I have read it at the time when the discussion developed. That doesn't really explain anything. For example, let's say the majority of players is playing less than 2 hours a day. Should we then just limit the number of hours you can play the game to 2 hours? Does that make good sense to you?

This is a significant QoL downgrade for any trader whose main activity in the game is trading. I wouldn't presume how important these traders are to the economy, but I do assume that there should be a better reason for this change than those mentioned in the post

Jaraal · June 28

NoTimeToWait wrote: »

Tbh, I don't really see how any savvy trader would be happy with the 30->14 change.
While I can deal with markets crashing, that's definitely a part of being a trader, I don't want to deal with 14 days listings.

I am still confused why devs made the cut so drastic. Like that only makes sense if they want to make players log on more frequently and they want that badly.

They were concerned about people using the mail for 30 day item storage. So now people are using it for 14, 14, and 2 day storage instead. So ZOS more than doubled the volume of mail sent and received, more than doubled the number of guild sales transactions (including returned items), and messed up the mail order so we have to scroll to the bottom of the list to see our new mail.... which now often lands somewhere in the middle between partially decayed 14 and 7 day timers. Not to mention that stuff no longer stops flashing when you click on it, so it's much harder to tell what is new and what is not.

Is it any wonder that lag has become a slideshow since Update 42, with all the new transactions introduced and twice the mails to keep track of? People who had full mailboxes before the change still have full mailboxes today.... except they have a much higher chance of losing their items and communications to the void if something comes up where they can't log in for a while. At least they didn't call it a "QOL change," as it's definitely the opposite of that. And I'm still waiting to hear from the folks who noticed the performance increase these changes made.

LaintalAy · June 29

katanagirl1 wrote: »

snip

So I’ve been wondering what you sell since you keep saying anything that takes more than 14 days to sell is overpriced. You sell mats. You sell them quickly and can restock the trader right away. You can always get more.

That is an item that is constantly being bought and used. I can gather mats and in a hour get a fair amount of base mats, refine and get refinement upgrade mats. The one thing I won’t get is lots of furnishing mats. I can also do an hour of surveys and get even more mats.

Something like furnishing plans is a one time purchase per character. I can farm for hours and only get (on average) a couple of blue zone plans from the latest chapter. I might be lucky to get a purple plan once a week. I get a bunch of base game plans but they are virtually worthless.

You cannot compare the two and justify the short listing time for the latter. I haven’t priced purple West Weald plans yet but Necrom and Apocrypha plans are listed for 100k to 3mil depending on the plan. It’s going to take a while to find the right buyer for that. It takes time to get those plans and the price reflects that.

People might say go farm your own plan but it’s not like mats. I can’t just farm a particular plan so relying on traders to fill what I don’t get is a necessity. I sell the duplicates to buy the ones I need.

Yes, i sell mats. They're easy to find, they are free and they respawn quickly.

I tried farming plans a few times; all I end up with is a lock pick or one piece of Adamantium.

Most of my income goes on style motifs. It isn't time-effective for me to farm those. I have my 50 sets, I just look for sets that are close to being completed and keep my spend between 10-15K. The rest can wait.

One of the few thing I sued to buy was platinum dust, but I no longer do that as:

Tempers have been devalued
I no longer to subscribe to ESO+ and can't use the stations any longer

The tempers and the ingots provided me with income to meet guild requirements, I'm not convinced that there is any profit in that process since the jewellery change. I''ll need to buy any chrome plating I need from now on.

I'm not interested in buying furnishing plans. I spent many years playing the Sims and have moved on from 'housing'.
There is no money to be made from selling furniture, so the plans are largely useless for me. I get the random purple plans from Rolis and sell whatever ones I already have.

I have now emptied my craft bag in the past 48 hours. I made about 4-5 million. Most of the purchasers were flippers. Very few regular players benefited from the reduced prices. So the flippers will now sell these items to players that can't their way to outlying traders for whatever reason. I got my money; the flippers will now get theirs.

If you are absolutely committed to selling something for 3M, then it's likely that you'll have to pay many listing fees. This true for both 14 and 30 day periods. People have said a few times that it can take six months to sell rare items.
No-one complained about the listing fees then.

The point that I apparently cannot make successfully, is that the change to 14 days is aimed at players like you. You could change your strategy for making money, or continue with 'what worked before'. I'm changing how I play. I'll selling whatever I have, for whatever I can get, now. What you do is up to you.

ZOS' strategy here is to make you sell for less for a quick sale; or risk spending more on listing fees to get the price that you want later. Maybe. They could just up the drop rate on your stored items in four months time and you'll lose out anyway.

Another more subtle consequence is that I have moved to outlying fee-free traders. Largely because I no longer need the bigger guilds in the 'best locations'. Players using TTC will still find any high-end items that I might have for sale there.

This isn't about justifying the change; its about forcing the penny to drop.

katanagirl1 · June 29

LaintalAy wrote: »

katanagirl1 wrote: »

snip

So I’ve been wondering what you sell since you keep saying anything that takes more than 14 days to sell is overpriced. You sell mats. You sell them quickly and can restock the trader right away. You can always get more.

That is an item that is constantly being bought and used. I can gather mats and in a hour get a fair amount of base mats, refine and get refinement upgrade mats. The one thing I won’t get is lots of furnishing mats. I can also do an hour of surveys and get even more mats.

Something like furnishing plans is a one time purchase per character. I can farm for hours and only get (on average) a couple of blue zone plans from the latest chapter. I might be lucky to get a purple plan once a week. I get a bunch of base game plans but they are virtually worthless.

You cannot compare the two and justify the short listing time for the latter. I haven’t priced purple West Weald plans yet but Necrom and Apocrypha plans are listed for 100k to 3mil depending on the plan. It’s going to take a while to find the right buyer for that. It takes time to get those plans and the price reflects that.

People might say go farm your own plan but it’s not like mats. I can’t just farm a particular plan so relying on traders to fill what I don’t get is a necessity. I sell the duplicates to buy the ones I need.

Yes, i sell mats. They're easy to find, they are free and they respawn quickly.

I tried farming plans a few times; all I end up with is a lock pick or one piece of Adamantium.

Most of my income goes on style motifs. It isn't time-effective for me to farm those. I have my 50 sets, I just look for sets that are close to being completed and keep my spend between 10-15K. The rest can wait.

One of the few thing I sued to buy was platinum dust, but I no longer do that as:
Tempers have been devalued

I no longer to subscribe to ESO+ and can't use the stations any longer

The tempers and the ingots provided me with income to meet guild requirements, I'm not convinced that there is any profit in that process since the jewellery change. I''ll need to buy any chrome plating I need from now on.

I'm not interested in buying furnishing plans. I spent many years playing the Sims and have moved on from 'housing'.
There is no money to be made from selling furniture, so the plans are largely useless for me. I get the random purple plans from Rolis and sell whatever ones I already have.

I have now emptied my craft bag in the past 48 hours. I made about 4-5 million. Most of the purchasers were flippers. Very few regular players benefited from the reduced prices. So the flippers will now sell these items to players that can't their way to outlying traders for whatever reason. I got my money; the flippers will now get theirs.

If you are absolutely committed to selling something for 3M, then it's likely that you'll have to pay many listing fees. This true for both 14 and 30 day periods. People have said a few times that it can take six months to sell rare items.
No-one complained about the listing fees then.

The point that I apparently cannot make successfully, is that the change to 14 days is aimed at players like you. You could change your strategy for making money, or continue with 'what worked before'. I'm changing how I play. I'll selling whatever I have, for whatever I can get, now. What you do is up to you.

ZOS' strategy here is to make you sell for less for a quick sale; or risk spending more on listing fees to get the price that you want later. Maybe. They could just up the drop rate on your stored items in four months time and you'll lose out anyway.

Another more subtle consequence is that I have moved to outlying fee-free traders. Largely because I no longer need the bigger guilds in the 'best locations'. Players using TTC will still find any high-end items that I might have for sale there.

This isn't about justifying the change; its about forcing the penny to drop.

Oh the 3mil gold plan trader is not me. I haven’t found a furnishing plan worth more than 100k since Necrom launched. See the other thing they have done is make the drop rate for plans so low that the only people making money off them are people who don’t do housing and just sell plans.

I was making gold off master writs until before the update. Now I have to practically give those away to make any gold.

MidniteOwl1913 · June 29

GooGa592 wrote: »

CameraBeardThePirate wrote: »

GooGa592 wrote: »

The 14 day listing limit is an idea right on par with the new jabs animation. There's no reasonable justification for it and it's just a horrible, unjustifiable change.

There are actually 2 plenty reasonable justifications for it.

1) It reduces server load. This is the main reason they did it, and they stated as such. You cannot argue in good faith that this isn't a valid reason.

2) It's been combating inflation. People are listing items for cheaper because if they don't sell quick, they'll have to resist the items and spend more in fees.

1) No, it doesn't. (please explain how you think the 14 day listing limitation reduces server load. Most think it increases load)
2) No, it doesn't. It just makes listing expensive items cost more to list, which will, eventually, most likely, increase inflation.

My understanding is people were using trading slots as more storage. They list it for huge sum expecting it won't sell but it's out of their bank space for 30 (now 14) days. So free extra storage. The extra storage thing is what the sever load is about. People were using mail for that too. So I guess with the 30 day mail they were getting 60 days of free storage.

MidniteOwl1913 · June 29

If they removed the fees to list and raised the cut for sold items it wouldn't matter how long the listing time was. Or maybe allow 1 free listings and charge a fee after that. If something doesn't sell after at least it would have had the full 30-day period for the original listing fee.

Kappachi · June 29

i don't think 14 days is killing trading, i think it's that tamriel trade center (the main service for looking up item prices & locations to buy) got extremely inconvenient to use since they block adblock and you have to keep refreshing and stuff.

CameraBeardThePirate · July 3

MidniteOwl1913 wrote: »

GooGa592 wrote: »

CameraBeardThePirate wrote: »

GooGa592 wrote: »

The 14 day listing limit is an idea right on par with the new jabs animation. There's no reasonable justification for it and it's just a horrible, unjustifiable change.

There are actually 2 plenty reasonable justifications for it.

1) It reduces server load. This is the main reason they did it, and they stated as such. You cannot argue in good faith that this isn't a valid reason.

2) It's been combating inflation. People are listing items for cheaper because if they don't sell quick, they'll have to resist the items and spend more in fees.

1) No, it doesn't. (please explain how you think the 14 day listing limitation reduces server load. Most think it increases load)
2) No, it doesn't. It just makes listing expensive items cost more to list, which will, eventually, most likely, increase inflation.

My understanding is people were using trading slots as more storage. They list it for huge sum expecting it won't sell but it's out of their bank space for 30 (now 14) days. So free extra storage. The extra storage thing is what the sever load is about. People were using mail for that too. So I guess with the 30 day mail they were getting 60 days of free storage.

Idk why that guy says it isn't affecting server load when ZOS straight up stated that was their main reasoning for the change.

Like okay, guy. I'm sure you know better than the devs that work on the server architecture of this game.

sarahthes · July 3

Jaraal wrote: »

sarahthes wrote: »

Jaraal wrote: »

bmnoble wrote: »

Even before this change, I knew plenty who were unhappy paying the listing fee for 30 days listings and taxes, do what they did, sell high priced stuff in zone chat.

Yes, zone chat sales spam has increased considerably since the inception of the 14 day listings.

Combine this with depressed sales, people selling things for less because nobody's buying, guilds being unable to rent traders due to depressed sales, players destroying or vendoring things instead of relisting and paying a double fee, and new gold entering the economy at the same rate as always.... and any potential "gold sink" created by shortened listing is negated.

In one fell swoop ZOS has crippled the economy, and it will be interesting to see how things play out from here.

Is it only PC NA that has had the economy crash? or everywhere else too?

Because PC NA was long overdue a correction.

The "correction" is that the same amount of gold will be entering the system from killing, stealing, questing, and ZOS handing out 100,000 gold every month, but with lower prices and less availability, inflation will increase. People will be sitting on more gold that they can't spend. Eventually, the rebound prices will be much higher than they were before Update 42. And the rich people that are now buying up all the cheap mats and big ticket items with slashed prices will make a killing.

I'm not sure if you're right about this. RMT gold is really expensive right now, indicating that there's probably been a significant ban of bot/RMT/seller accounts.

I think the amount of gold in the system is lower than it was. I'm not sure prices will rebound higher than they were because I'm not sure anybody can afford to pay them.

LPapirius · July 3

CameraBeardThePirate wrote: »

MidniteOwl1913 wrote: »

GooGa592 wrote: »

CameraBeardThePirate wrote: »

GooGa592 wrote: »

The 14 day listing limit is an idea right on par with the new jabs animation. There's no reasonable justification for it and it's just a horrible, unjustifiable change.

There are actually 2 plenty reasonable justifications for it.

1) It reduces server load. This is the main reason they did it, and they stated as such. You cannot argue in good faith that this isn't a valid reason.

2) It's been combating inflation. People are listing items for cheaper because if they don't sell quick, they'll have to resist the items and spend more in fees.

1) No, it doesn't. (please explain how you think the 14 day listing limitation reduces server load. Most think it increases load)
2) No, it doesn't. It just makes listing expensive items cost more to list, which will, eventually, most likely, increase inflation.

My understanding is people were using trading slots as more storage. They list it for huge sum expecting it won't sell but it's out of their bank space for 30 (now 14) days. So free extra storage. The extra storage thing is what the sever load is about. People were using mail for that too. So I guess with the 30 day mail they were getting 60 days of free storage.

Idk why that guy says it isn't affecting server load when ZOS straight up stated that was their main reasoning for the change.

Like okay, guy. I'm sure you know better than the devs that work on the server architecture of this game.

ZOS has been claiming they're working on and fixing Cyrodiil since 2018.