35k+ to relist an Aetheric Cypher after only 14 days

CrazyKitty

Please reconsider the 14 day listing time ZOS. This is ridiculous. I'm listing the item at 500k below the suggested listing price.

This 14 day listing limitation is just discouraging those of us who trade a lot to even participate. Between decisions like this and all the disconnecting/lag issues I'm really starting to wonder what the heck is going on at ZOS. There are a lot of bad management decisions taking place lately and major bugs (the disconnecting issue) are getting nothing but lip service as far as we can tell.

h9dlb

I agree. Trading isn't worthwhile anymore. Also those cyphers are currently cheap as there's still loads about after the anniversary event. The listing fee will be much higher in a few months time. If zos are going to continue with this bad decision, at least there should be a cap of say 10,000 gold on the 1% listing fee

bmnoble

Even before this change, I knew plenty who were unhappy paying the listing fee for 30 days listings and taxes, do what they did, sell high priced stuff in zone chat.

To me, selling 500K below the suggested listing price just shows how low the demand is for the item, (if someone were actively searching for one during that 14 days they would have bought it within that time period) and how over priced the suggested listing currently is, Aetheric Cyphers are something that those looking to buy are only going to do once on their account, either for the sake of collecting the finished recipe or to actually make the potions IMO.

Those that can afford it have long since gotten it by now and those newer players that currently want it are still raising the funds or would rather try their luck with RNG during the anniversary event each year.

I admit the change is annoying, your going to have to weigh up the profit for selling high, with the time it takes to sell, you either have the capital to bankroll the high listing fee or you don't and have no choice for low demand items but to slash your price tag or be left holding the bag as other players drop their prices leaving yours sitting their.

TX12001rwb17_ESO

If it is not selling within 2 weeks then it means your listing it way too high and the item is not worth what you think it is.

DrScott59

TX12001rwb17_ESO wrote: »

If it is not selling within 2 weeks then it means your listing it way too high and the item is not worth what you think it is.

If it sold with 3 weeks, or 4 weeks, but not 2 weeks -- then is the listing price still too high?? (rhetorical question -- why is 2 weeks the "right" duration?)

Lots of people focused on trading watch the market, and when they see an item trending upwards they list at the high end, expecting the market to get there before their listing expires. Two weeks is a major shock to that paradigm.

To me (casual trader), 4 weeks often did seem too long -- but 2 weeks seems *way* too short.

oldbobdude

I sold 2 of Aetheric Dust just before anniversary event for 1m each. Then picked up 2 more during anniversary. Price has really dropped through abundance. That goes for rare plans as well. I’ll just hold mine and wait.

bmnoble

DrScott59 wrote: »

TX12001rwb17_ESO wrote: »

If it is not selling within 2 weeks then it means your listing it way too high and the item is not worth what you think it is.

If it sold with 3 weeks, or 4 weeks, but not 2 weeks -- then is the listing price still too high?? (rhetorical question -- why is 2 weeks the "right" duration?)

Lots of people focused on trading watch the market, and when they see an item trending upwards they list at the high end, expecting the market to get there before their listing expires. Two weeks is a major shock to that paradigm.

To me (casual trader), 4 weeks often did seem too long -- but 2 weeks seems *way* too short.

Nothing stopping you putting it back up for another 2 weeks if your certain something is going to sell at the price, your just going to have a slightly lower profit margin than what you wanted, question is how many times do you expect to have to re list the item before you realise you have priced something too high at what point does the loss in potential profit make you change your price tag?

As for stuff trending I always go the other way I fully expect the price to have fallen off a cliff in most cases long before it ever reaches that high point.

For example that purple fragment drop that you need 50 of for one of the skill styles from the mirror moor incursions, I have made about 1.2 million selling the daily fragment I get, since the chapter dropped, people were listing them at 160K+ a piece I went with 80K a piece mine sold within the day, quite a few of those initial listings others put up have just expired left sitting there.

Could I have gotten more perhaps, am I satisfied with what I got considering all of mine are sold while others I know have quite a few listed and are still relisting theirs even now taking up slots they could have used for other stuff, yes I am, it was bonus income nothing more nothing less, just for doing a daily to get my script drops.

DenverRalphy

While I get what the OP is ranting about (heck, I'm not a fan of the change either), unfortunately in this situatioin they've misplaced their angst and railing towards the wrong issue. It's not priced too high, it's just that the OP is trying to sell snow to an Eskimo. They're listing a product in an already saturated market. I'd probably wait until about 5 or 6 months past the end of the Jubilee event before even considering listing it.

Dagoth_Rac

Some low demand/high rarity items like Aetheric Cypher are indeed hurt by the reduction to 14 days because it may not be that item is priced too high, but that no one was buying in that 14 day period. A seller can adjust price but can't really change underlying demand. However, I think the overall improvement in market liquidity for the 99.9% of guild trader transactions in the game more than makes up for it. It is like complaining that a real world change which made food and clothes sell faster and at better prices has disrupted the market for ancient Sumerian artifacts. It may be an accurate statement, but the laws of supply and demand can get weird when you push up to the limits of no demand, and you may not want to balance economy around unicorn items.

virtus753

DrScott59 wrote: »

TX12001rwb17_ESO wrote: »

If it is not selling within 2 weeks then it means your listing it way too high and the item is not worth what you think it is.

If it sold with 3 weeks, or 4 weeks, but not 2 weeks -- then is the listing price still too high?? (rhetorical question -- why is 2 weeks the "right" duration?)

In making this change, ZOS said that the "vast majority" of items that sell do so within 2 weeks. So based on their data, they felt that 2 weeks was the "right" duration. It wasn't that item sales were equally distributed within the 4 week window and they just arbitrarily cut it in half.

notyuu

If it didn't sell within two weeks it simply means that either
1 - there is no demand for it at that price
2 - there is no demand for it at all

In the former cade just relist it cheaper, in the latter case ya skuppered, do market research and find what people do want

h9dlb

notyuu wrote: »

If it didn't sell within two weeks it simply means that either
1 - there is no demand for it at that price
2 - there is no demand for it at all

In the former cade just relist it cheaper, in the latter case ya skuppered, do market research and find what people do want

no it means someone undercut the price by 1000g

freespirit

The cipher does the same price dance every year....

Just before Anniversary Event = High price.

During and after Event = Price tanks, market is saturated.

Around Nov/Dec = Price starts to rise again(this year may be different, I think more dropped, I got three!)

Aetherial Dust does the same and so do motifs, motifs are worse than before because Zeal of Zenithar drops them too now.

xilfxlegion

TX12001rwb17_ESO wrote: »

If it is not selling within 2 weeks then it means your listing it way too high and the item is not worth what you think it is.

agreed.

if anything ive posted hasnt sold within a week i relist it. i also sort by newest when perusing traders.

notyuu

h9dlb wrote: »

notyuu wrote: »

If it didn't sell within two weeks it simply means that either
1 - there is no demand for it at that price
2 - there is no demand for it at all

In the former cade just relist it cheaper, in the latter case ya skuppered, do market research and find what people do want

no it means someone undercut the price by 1000g

Then theirs would have sold and yours would be the new bottom line and if your price keeps getting undercut, well, see point 1

ShadowPaladin

Well...

I do think we have here a good example for why the so called argruments of demand and supply will regulate everything, as well as free markets will solve everything is nothing more than a dream and an illusion !

All of this is man-made and with that in the best case indirectly influenced by people and in the worst case directly !!!

If the so called argument of demand and supply would apply, a seller/supplier would, if an item is not selling, reduce the price in small steps to a point where it will. But instead of doing so alot of people start complaining about overall conditions not being good enough for them, unrealistic rules they have to follow, to many taxes and fees they have to pay and at the end not being able to earn enough profit. At the same time those same people will continue to list/offer the item for the same price over and over again, in some cases perhaps even increase it (if for example there are no other offers for the same or a similar item), without it being sold at the end . Some will now ask, why??? The answer to that is quite simple - *Human nature*! Or to put it into one word - GREED !!!

With that being said. The problem of not being able to sell something lies not with the buyer or someone else. IT. IS. YOUR!!! PROBLEM.

Quite a few already mentioned what a person should take a look at, if he/she wants to sell something.

1. Check what the item is already listed for by others.
2. Check - if possible - for what price its being sold, because listing prices and selling prices are DIFFERENT things!
3. Ask yourself if you want to sell an item fast, in a moderate timeframe or if it can take a longer time until it may/will sell.
4. If you already listed it and it did not sell, ask yourself it you do want to continue to list it for the same price and shoulder the costs (fees and taxes) for relisting it over and over again.
5. Ask yourself what kind of profit you will/want to make - an unreasonable one (totally overpricing an item) or a reasonable one. Keep in mind here, that if you looted the item yourself, you will ALWAYS make a profit of 100% (if you deduct taxes and fees it will be 92%), since you looted the item yourself and did not spent any money on it. You had nothing before and now you have something !
6. Be aware that if the average listing price for an item is for example 5mio, it does not mean it will sell for that amount! Instead of naively listing your item for the same price, because you think - *Woah, SSOOOO much gold to make !!!* - take a step back, don't be greedy and instead try to think a tiny bit more logically and objectively about it. For example if you looted the item yourself, you can list it for way less than 5mio, lets say for example for 4mio instead. You can/will still make alot of profit and you will increase the chance that said item may/will sell. In case you bought the item (you want to flip it), just make a small calculation by taking into account what you spent (eg. 2mio), the profit you want to make (lets say 20%) and the fees and taxes (8% of the price an item is listed for). For this example it would be something like -> 2mio + 400k (20% profit) = 2,4mio = 92% of listing price (8% fees and taxes are missing) --> price to list it for would be around 2,61mio or if you want to round up 2,7mio .
7. If an item does not sell within 14 days, relist it only once for the same price and if it does not sell again, reduce the price.
8. If you want to aim at a certain (high) selling price, do not sell right before, during or shortly after certain events! Wait for a few months, so that prices will/may rise again. BUT, be aware that for a lot of things prices will not always go back up to the level they once were on!!!

Finally, regarding the time frame for listing items. 30 days may have been not bad, especially in terms of maintanance a seller would have to do. But, I personally think that 14 days aren't bad either. They are more than enough for people to take notice and if interested buy items. The maintanance for (real) sellers/traders shouldn't be that much different, because I can't imagine that good traders let items stay up for more than 14 days even during the old 30 day timeframe. They always want to sell stuff in a reasonable timeframe and not showcase it for ever !

shadyjane62

I have always been an advocate for an Auction House. I still am especially having experienced this trader system which is IMO the worst system ever.

CrazyKitty

Just for the record, I checked TTC to see if my listing was competively priced before listing. I listed my cipher for 300k less than any other TTC listing for the item.

The problem is since ZOS has decided to focus on so much casual play the markets for buying and selling anything have slowed very significantly. New players don't have the funds to purchase the high dollar items, nor do they need them if they only log on once a week and don't do much other than a few casual quests. U35 ran off too many of the hard core vet players and ZOS isn't doing anything to bring them back.

TX12001rwb17_ESO wrote: »

If it is not selling within 2 weeks then it means your listing it way too high and the item is not worth what you think it is.

No, it doesn't.

r3nk0

Imho, it would've been only logical to also halve the listing fee, when they halved the listing time.
　　　　　　　　　　　　　　Half the time, half the price, yes?
　　　　　　　　　　　　　　　　　　¯\_(ツ)_/¯

DenverRalphy

r3nk0 wrote: »

Imho, it would've been only logical to also halve the listing fee, when they halved the listing time.
‎ ‎ ‎ ‎ ‎ ‎ ‎ ‎ ‎ ‎ ‎ ‎ ‎ ‎ ‎ ‎ ‎ ‎ ‎ ‎ ‎ ‎ ‎ ‎ ‎ ‎ ‎ ‎ ‎ ‎ ‎ ‎ ‎ ‎ ‎ ‎ ‎ ‎ ‎ ‎ ‎ ‎ ‎ ‎ ‎ ‎ ‎ ‎ ‎ ‎Half the time, half the price, yes?
¯\_(ツ)_/¯

That's not really an option though, because that cuts significantly into the gold sink. If a majority of items sell under 14 days, cutting the fees for those would result in less gold being taken out of the game.

CrazyKitty

TX12001rwb17_ESO wrote: »

If it is not selling within 2 weeks then it means your listing it way too high and the item is not worth what you think it is.

r3nk0 wrote: »

Imho, it would've been only logical to also halve the listing fee, when they halved the listing time.
　　　　　　　　　　　　　　Half the time, half the price, yes?
　　　　　　　　　　　　　　　　　　¯\_(ツ)_/¯

No. As I pointed out in an earlier post, my listing is the lowest asking price of anyone else's on TTC by 300k.

furiouslog

CrazyKitty wrote: »

Just for the record, I checked TTC to see if my listing was competively priced before listing. I listed my cipher for 300k less than any other TTC listing for the item.

The problem is since ZOS has decided to focus on so much casual play the markets for buying and selling anything have slowed very significantly. New players don't have the funds to purchase the high dollar items, nor do they need them if they only log on once a week and don't do much other than a few casual quests. U35 ran off too many of the hard core vet players and ZOS isn't doing anything to bring them back.

TX12001rwb17_ESO wrote: »

If it is not selling within 2 weeks then it means your listing it way too high and the item is not worth what you think it is.

No, it doesn't.

I agree that the population has trended downwards over time, and Gold Road did not give the kind of active player bump that we've seen in the past, but if you want to sell it now, you're going to need to lower the price even more than you already have, although I find it hard to believe that you undercut all of the other listings since there have clearly been a couple of sales made in the past few weeks. Not accusing you of anything, just saying that if someone made a sale, they either beat you on price or the buyer was impatient/had bad data/etc. Normally after a chapter release, mats get a price bump on the traders because people are constructing new builds and such. Gold mats are actually trending downwards and continuing to do so. The only hot item is the ink.

The other thing with the cipher is that there are enough people who have it to supply people with the pots. All you need is one guildie who is willing to make them for free if you have the mats. People who actually bought the cipher have realized over time that they will never make the gold back that they spent on it, because there is always someone willing to peg their sales prices for the potions right at the cost of the mats to make it, so people don't buy it until they have so much gold that they don't really care about the cost, and want to complete their recipe collection or something. It's not a desirable item when it is super expensive - the opportunity cost is too high for casual players and the market is either saturated or non-existent among the vets.

If your hypothesis is correct about the population of vets has dwindled to the point that it has affected the economy, then what you said about your listing not being too high is clearly incorrect. Your pricing reflects a mindset that does not take into account the evolved market, which is low on vet people and high on newbs, which means the nature of the demand for the item has changed, and you have not changed to meet it. Ergo, you are pricing it too high for the new market, for which you've blamed ZOS.

You acknowledge that the market has changed, but you still maintain a that the cipher has a perceived value based on the old market. Do you see the issue there?

If you want the gold now, I'd peg it well below the bottom listing and hope for the best.

All of that being said, the listing fees for big ticket items are pretty dumb, and should be capped. I accidentally listed something for 10 million that I wanted to list for 1 million and clicked through, and I happened to have the fee on my toon at the time, so I really blew it and wasted a lot of gold. That was more upsetting to me than having had to adjust a price to match market realities, which I have done many times and also lost gold, but probably not as much as I lost in that one listing error. Easy come, easy go. At least, if you let it.

virtus753

r3nk0 wrote: »

Imho, it would've been only logical to also halve the listing fee, when they halved the listing time.
‎ ‎ ‎ ‎ ‎ ‎ ‎ ‎ ‎ ‎ ‎ ‎ ‎ ‎ ‎ ‎ ‎ ‎ ‎ ‎ ‎ ‎ ‎ ‎ ‎ ‎ ‎ ‎ ‎ ‎ ‎ ‎ ‎ ‎ ‎ ‎ ‎ ‎ ‎ ‎ ‎ ‎ ‎ ‎ ‎ ‎ ‎ ‎ ‎ ‎Half the time, half the price, yes?
¯\_(ツ)_/¯

I don’t see how that balances out. The fee does not vary with how long a listing lasts. ZOS did not double the number of times the fee is paid with this change, since many items do sell within 2 weeks. It’s far from the case that we all need to relist all our items at the end of that period, so our costs are not doubled and thus do not need to be halved. That’s only going to be the case when the item doesn’t sell. The solution to the prospect of extra listings fees is to price items to move within the new time frame, which the vast majority of successful listings were doing anyhow.

The listing fee is both a gold sink and a deterrent to using the guild store as extra storage. Both of those purposes would be hindered by halving the fee.

Casul

Maybe I’m just impatient but if something doesn’t sell within 2-3 days I assume it’s too high and relist anyways.

sarahthes

The economy on PC NA is crashing right now. Nobody is buying anything high end no matter how long it is listed for because gold is scarcer than it was and mats are higher abundance (selling for less) than they were.

Drammanoth

notyuu wrote: »

If it didn't sell within two weeks it simply means that either
1 - there is no demand for it at that price
2 - there is no demand for it at all

In the former cade just relist it cheaper, in the latter case ya skuppered, do market research and find what people do want

And people wonder why OH WHY there is inflation... If one wants to sell stuff at exorbitant prices and no one is buying, well... @notyuu has explained it

sarahthes

Drammanoth wrote: »

notyuu wrote: »

If it didn't sell within two weeks it simply means that either
1 - there is no demand for it at that price
2 - there is no demand for it at all

In the former cade just relist it cheaper, in the latter case ya skuppered, do market research and find what people do want

And people wonder why OH WHY there is inflation... If one wants to sell stuff at exorbitant prices and no one is buying, well... @notyuu has explained it

There is no inflation right now, at least not on PC NA. Prices for most things are cheaper than they were this time last year.

Necrotech_Master

if its not selling its priced too high, its as simple as that

people are going to only pay what they feel the item is worth

me personally i dont generally buy motifs if they are over 25-30k gold (the only time i make any exceptions is when its like the last one i need to finish the whole motif)

if i go to a trader and the minimum price for a motif i need is 50k, i leave and move on

TTC only shows items listed, it doesnt show if those items are selling (at least on the website), so i always take its suggestions with a grain of salt

MaraxusTheOrc

Not going to be popular for saying this, but we need ways to remove gold from the economy to combat inflation. This is doing that. Sorry if you don’t like it, but it makes sense and seems to work to some extent macro-economically.

CrashTest

Necrotech_Master wrote: »

if its not selling its priced too high, its as simple as that

people are going to only pay what they feel the item is worth

me personally i dont generally buy motifs if they are over 25-30k gold (the only time i make any exceptions is when its like the last one i need to finish the whole motif)

if i go to a trader and the minimum price for a motif i need is 50k, i leave and move on

TTC only shows items listed, it doesnt show if those items are selling (at least on the website), so i always take its suggestions with a grain of salt

It really is as simple as that.

Also TTC does show sale average prices and even charts on their site so you can check historical trends. Click on any item listing for all the details. I've found that the average sales price is always lower than the average listing price.

belial5221_ESO

I never use min/max/avg for ttc,too skewed by gold buyers and ppl manipulating market.Best to use suggested(removes outliers for better estimate),and MM sales(depending on guilds,diff for everyone,best to remove outliers there too) as a better estimate.It's possible sales slow,cause noone needs/wants it til double xp event,especially if most ppl use the free xp boosts.