35k+ to relist an Aetheric Cypher after only 14 days

karthrag_inak · June 20

Finally it is not completely a sellers market. Perhaps some of the absurd pricing will come down a bit.

rothan117 · June 20

Prices on most everything have been dropping a lot with the Jubilee/Anniversary event greatly accelerating that trend. And it has continued even since Gold Road dropped, likely due to no new class to level and equip and likely no compelling new sets to gold out. There is a great over supply of items for sale and a lack of interested buyers. The population has definitely declined and Gold Road has not seemed to make a noticeable difference based on running around the new zone. And if the people left have a higher proportion of casual players who do not spend long periods each week playing, that is going to drive down demand.

Long story short, the Jubilee/Anniversary event flooded the market with the OPs recipe and since it is a once and done type purchase, that significantly shrank the potential market of buyers since you never need to buy another one. And it was already a limited market because at the price that recipe has commanded, a large portion of the player base could never afford it in the first place.

Dark_Lord_Kuro · June 20

They should cutblisting fees by 50%

CrazyKitty · June 21

Some of the posters in this thread are posting comments that are not rational.

Let's go with a real life example to make the point.

I have a car that Kelly Blue Book says is worth 20k. If I want to sell my car quickly, should I put it on the market for 18k or for 10k? Sure, it will sell really fast for 10k because the asking price is half what it's worth, but is it a reasonable argument to claim I should try to sell the car for 10K?

Dark_Lord_Kuro wrote: »

They should cutblisting fees by 50%

This is a reasonable point. If the listing time is half what it used to be, the listing fee should also be half what it used to be. The argument given to us by ZOS was that cutting the listing times to 14 days would free up server resources. They said nothing about trying to create a gold sink.

The 14 day listing time effectively penalizes everyone who relies on guild sales to earn gold, and disproportionately impacts the long time vet players who typically have more items of high value to sell.

I feel like this is another little step toward making ESO a strictly casual questing game by reducing yet another competitive aspect of the game.

majulook · June 21

Do to the time it sometimes takes for high cost items to sell and the new 14 day timer, I am re-evaluating the amount of trading I do. Cutting the Fees would be a good thing.

I am being very selective on what i put up for sale. Lots of of lower priced gear, recipes, and furnishing items that I was selling am just deconstructing or having alts learn them.

bmnoble · June 21

CrazyKitty wrote: »

Some of the posters in this thread are posting comments that are not rational.

Let's go with a real life example to make the point.

I have a car that Kelly Blue Book says is worth 20k. If I want to sell my car quickly, should I put it on the market for 18k or for 10k? Sure, it will sell really fast for 10k because the asking price is half what it's worth, but is it a reasonable argument to claim I should try to sell the car for 10K?

If everything sold for what it was "worth" in real life there would be no sales, no clearance sales to free up space to sell things, there would be no businesses throwing away food that has expired for sitting on the shelf for too long.

The Aetheric Cypher came out in 2016, how many rich players do you think are left that don't already own the completed recipe after 8 years? Your only market left for that item is newer players that don't yet have the funds to buy it or don't see the need to buy it in the first place.

ShadowPaladin · June 21

bmnoble wrote: »

CrazyKitty wrote: »

Some of the posters in this thread are posting comments that are not rational.

Let's go with a real life example to make the point.

I have a car that Kelly Blue Book says is worth 20k. If I want to sell my car quickly, should I put it on the market for 18k or for 10k? Sure, it will sell really fast for 10k because the asking price is half what it's worth, but is it a reasonable argument to claim I should try to sell the car for 10K?

If everything sold for what it was "worth" in real life there would be no sales, no clearance sales to free up space to sell things, there would be no businesses throwing away food that has expired for sitting on the shelf for too long.

The Aetheric Cypher came out in 2016, how many rich players do you think are left that don't already own the completed recipe after 8 years? Your only market left for that item is newer players that don't yet have the funds to buy it or don't see the need to buy it in the first place.

1000% correct!!!

In addition to that comes the fact - as it was already mentioned by others above - that the Cypher is, together with other items, a ONE TIME need/use and buy thing. Those who looted it and used it or those who bought it once WILL NOT(!) go after it a second time. That means, with every player who gets such an item, there will be one less potential customer for it! With that you will reach a point where nearly no one will be left, who will be able to pay high prices (older players). As it was mentioned, only newer ones will be left, who only have a low amount of gold.

Necrotech_Master · June 21

CrazyKitty wrote: »

Some of the posters in this thread are posting comments that are not rational.

Let's go with a real life example to make the point.

I have a car that Kelly Blue Book says is worth 20k. If I want to sell my car quickly, should I put it on the market for 18k or for 10k? Sure, it will sell really fast for 10k because the asking price is half what it's worth, but is it a reasonable argument to claim I should try to sell the car for 10K?

Dark_Lord_Kuro wrote: »

They should cutblisting fees by 50%

This is a reasonable point. If the listing time is half what it used to be, the listing fee should also be half what it used to be. The argument given to us by ZOS was that cutting the listing times to 14 days would free up server resources. They said nothing about trying to create a gold sink.

The 14 day listing time effectively penalizes everyone who relies on guild sales to earn gold, and disproportionately impacts the long time vet players who typically have more items of high value to sell.

I feel like this is another little step toward making ESO a strictly casual questing game by reducing yet another competitive aspect of the game.

according to NPC merchants, the actual "value" of those items are usually in the "10s of gold" range

that is what the item is "actually" worth if no other players were involved

posting the item for sale on a guild store is akin to putting up a yard sale, you set the prices, and people decide if they want to pay for those, the guild store is essentially a "no haggling allowed" yard sale

if say hypothetically there was no guild store or other players to sell to, your aetheric cipher would be worth only as much as the NPC vendors would pay for it, rarity doesnt really mean anything to them lol

im sure that blue treasure item worth 250g at the NPC is probably more "valuable" than the aetheric cipher lol

i use the guild store mainly to get rid of items i dont want or have any use for, any gold i get from the sale is a profit because it was a useless item for me, sitting in the guild store for 2 weeks isnt making me gold

edit to add: people will only pay what they feel the item is worth, and since the economy is player driven, if the item isnt selling, it is priced too high for what people are willing to pay

reazea · June 21

CrazyKitty wrote: »

Some of the posters in this thread are posting comments that are not rational.

Let's go with a real life example to make the point.

I have a car that Kelly Blue Book says is worth 20k. If I want to sell my car quickly, should I put it on the market for 18k or for 10k? Sure, it will sell really fast for 10k because the asking price is half what it's worth, but is it a reasonable argument to claim I should try to sell the car for 10K?

Dark_Lord_Kuro wrote: »

They should cutblisting fees by 50%

This is a reasonable point. If the listing time is half what it used to be, the listing fee should also be half what it used to be. The argument given to us by ZOS was that cutting the listing times to 14 days would free up server resources. They said nothing about trying to create a gold sink.

The 14 day listing time effectively penalizes everyone who relies on guild sales to earn gold, and disproportionately impacts the long time vet players who typically have more items of high value to sell.

I feel like this is another little step toward making ESO a strictly casual questing game by reducing yet another competitive aspect of the game.

I agree. The 14 day listing limitation is ludicrous for a number of reasons, not just when it comes to listing high value items.

I think the posters claiming otherwise just don't participate in the buying and selling of items very much. They just want everything to be dirt cheap because they don't play enough to be able to afford the big ticket items.

sarahthes · June 21

reazea wrote: »

CrazyKitty wrote: »

Some of the posters in this thread are posting comments that are not rational.

Let's go with a real life example to make the point.

I have a car that Kelly Blue Book says is worth 20k. If I want to sell my car quickly, should I put it on the market for 18k or for 10k? Sure, it will sell really fast for 10k because the asking price is half what it's worth, but is it a reasonable argument to claim I should try to sell the car for 10K?

Dark_Lord_Kuro wrote: »

They should cutblisting fees by 50%

This is a reasonable point. If the listing time is half what it used to be, the listing fee should also be half what it used to be. The argument given to us by ZOS was that cutting the listing times to 14 days would free up server resources. They said nothing about trying to create a gold sink.

The 14 day listing time effectively penalizes everyone who relies on guild sales to earn gold, and disproportionately impacts the long time vet players who typically have more items of high value to sell.

I feel like this is another little step toward making ESO a strictly casual questing game by reducing yet another competitive aspect of the game.

I agree. The 14 day listing limitation is ludicrous for a number of reasons, not just when it comes to listing high value items.

I think the posters claiming otherwise just don't participate in the buying and selling of items very much. They just want everything to be dirt cheap because they don't play enough to be able to afford the big ticket items.

I am in 3 trading guilds and keep all slots as full as I can manage.

I do high volume medium cost sales, make around 8 - 15 mill weekly (although with rapid deflation that's a lot harder to do lately). I play around 40-50 hours a week.

I do not see a problem with the 14 day listing. My stuff all sells within 2-4 days. If it doesn't, it's not going to and it's a pricing problem or a demand problem.

With recent deflation in the PC NA economy, if your things aren't selling then they're over priced, even if you've undercut other people. Have to price to what people are willing and able to pay, and right now people aren't willing and able to pay high prices for much of anything, let alone niche collectibles.

furiouslog · June 21

CrazyKitty wrote: »

Some of the posters in this thread are posting comments that are not rational.

Let's go with a real life example to make the point.

I have a car that Kelly Blue Book says is worth 20k. If I want to sell my car quickly, should I put it on the market for 18k or for 10k? Sure, it will sell really fast for 10k because the asking price is half what it's worth, but is it a reasonable argument to claim I should try to sell the car for 10K?

But you're not selling a regular car. You're trying to sell a 400K Ferrari in the middle of a major recession.

The blue book guys constantly make adjustments to their pricing given seasonality, tangential markets (like gas prices and their effect on vehicles with better MPG), regional markets, and fundamental economic indicators. The closest thing we have is TTC. Have you controlled for all influential external factors in pricing your item?

Just hang on to it until the economy recovers. If you don't see that happening for a while and need the gold now, do what needs to be done.

LaintalAy · June 21

notyuu wrote: »

If it didn't sell within two weeks it simply means that either
1 - there is no demand for it at that price
2 - there is no demand for it at all

In the former cade just relist it cheaper, in the latter case ya skuppered, do market research and find what people do want

I have no desire for this item.

katanagirl1 · June 21

bmnoble wrote: »

CrazyKitty wrote: »

Some of the posters in this thread are posting comments that are not rational.

Let's go with a real life example to make the point.

I have a car that Kelly Blue Book says is worth 20k. If I want to sell my car quickly, should I put it on the market for 18k or for 10k? Sure, it will sell really fast for 10k because the asking price is half what it's worth, but is it a reasonable argument to claim I should try to sell the car for 10K?

If everything sold for what it was "worth" in real life there would be no sales, no clearance sales to free up space to sell things, there would be no businesses throwing away food that has expired for sitting on the shelf for too long.

The Aetheric Cypher came out in 2016, how many rich players do you think are left that don't already own the completed recipe after 8 years? Your only market left for that item is newer players that don't yet have the funds to buy it or don't see the need to buy it in the first place.

I just bought one after the anniversary event. I’ve been playing that long but just now felt I had the gold to justify the purchase.

I was also hoping it would drop for me. I have picked up 5-6 aetherial dust from nodes myself but never got a drop for the cipher anywhere, even in event boxes.

I realize not many players are going to make the purchase at any given time, and it is a one-time purchase basically. That is why it should not be considered on the same level as something like gold mats that need to be used often for upgrading gear or completing master writs.

Lags · June 21

CrazyKitty wrote: »

Please reconsider the 14 day listing time ZOS. This is ridiculous. I'm listing the item at 500k below the suggested listing price.

This 14 day listing limitation is just discouraging those of us who trade a lot to even participate. Between decisions like this and all the disconnecting/lag issues I'm really starting to wonder what the heck is going on at ZOS. There are a lot of bad management decisions taking place lately and major bugs (the disconnecting issue) are getting nothing but lip service as far as we can tell.

the suggested listing price? suggested by who?

JustLovely · June 22

Trading in ESO is becoming more and more tedious thanks to this 14 day listing limitation that has no rational reason to have been implemented in the first place. Sales have already slowed to a crawl compared to what they were prior to U35 and now, with this unnecessary listing limitation, selling just became way more tedious and twice as expensive.

Eldartar · June 22

TX12001rwb17_ESO wrote: »

If it is not selling within 2 weeks then it means your listing it way too high and the item is not worth what you think it is.

Any Item is only worth what someone is willing to pay for it.

Alinhbo_Tyaka · June 22

The biggest impact on not being able to sell an item is not lack of demand or lack of competitive pricing it is there is no mechanism for players to find your item without traveling to every guild trader in the game. You could have listed a rare in demand item for 1 gold and there is no guarantee that it will sell in two weeks if no one comes by your trader looking for it. There was still no guarantee that it would sell in four weeks but you at least increased the chance someone would stop by. Cutting the listing period does nothing to enhance sales and it won't fix the performance issues as players will just relist the items as soon as they are returned. If game performance is really the concern ZOS would get better results by providing a global search mechanism so players can locate traders with the items they are looking for. A global search would also go a long way in resolving slow sales for low demand items and help players come up with competitive prices.

robpr · June 22

Its the Cipher, not many people need this one-time item now when 2x exp events and scrolls are so common. I got similar item, Mourning Dew, from IA random pack. Could not for the love of god sell it for 2 months, even heavily undercutting. There was simply no demand for it.
If we weren't showered with exp scrolls from login rewards and crates, then sure.

katanagirl1 · June 22

JustLovely wrote: »

Trading in ESO is becoming more and more tedious thanks to this 14 day listing limitation that has no rational reason to have been implemented in the first place. Sales have already slowed to a crawl compared to what they were prior to U35 and now, with this unnecessary listing limitation, selling just became way more tedious and twice as expensive.

I wonder if this change is why I am not making any sales anymore. I list master writs for cheap, and they usually sell fast. Two weeks ago they stopped selling, but I figured players were taking a break before the console release to play other games. We have a trader in Wayrest this week, and I haven’t sold a single thing in over a week. Listings are expiring and getting mailed back to me, but my characters are getting more master writs and their inventories are full, and the bank is now full. I have to make my donation today but I have got no gold from sales.

FeedbackOnly · June 22

I agree listing fee should go down and traders should be held for two weeks if we want to save database space

h9dlb · June 22

I've barely played since they introduced these changes. Played since beta. Only logged in once this week (today) to take my mail and logged off

freespirit · June 22

When people get cross because THEY think my prices are too cheap....

I look at my full mailbox and think "nope they are not!"

Profit from zero sales = zero

Profit from many sales, however small = profit!!

As far as the cipher goes, I won't be listing my ones any time soon BUT if I did I would make it low enough to interest the flippers and atm that would be very low. 🙂

SaffronCitrusflower · June 24

LaintalAy wrote: »

notyuu wrote: »

If it didn't sell within two weeks it simply means that either
1 - there is no demand for it at that price
2 - there is no demand for it at all

In the former cade just relist it cheaper, in the latter case ya skuppered, do market research and find what people do want

I have no desire for this item.

So don't buy one.

GooGa592 · June 24

The 14 day listing limit is an idea right on par with the new jabs animation. There's no reasonable justification for it and it's just a horrible, unjustifiable change.

CameraBeardThePirate · June 24

GooGa592 wrote: »

The 14 day listing limit is an idea right on par with the new jabs animation. There's no reasonable justification for it and it's just a horrible, unjustifiable change.

There are actually 2 plenty reasonable justifications for it.

1) It reduces server load. This is the main reason they did it, and they stated as such. You cannot argue in good faith that this isn't a valid reason.

2) It's been combating inflation. People are listing items for cheaper because if they don't sell quick, they'll have to resist the items and spend more in fees.

GooGa592 · June 24

CameraBeardThePirate wrote: »

GooGa592 wrote: »

The 14 day listing limit is an idea right on par with the new jabs animation. There's no reasonable justification for it and it's just a horrible, unjustifiable change.

There are actually 2 plenty reasonable justifications for it.

1) It reduces server load. This is the main reason they did it, and they stated as such. You cannot argue in good faith that this isn't a valid reason.

2) It's been combating inflation. People are listing items for cheaper because if they don't sell quick, they'll have to resist the items and spend more in fees.

1) No, it doesn't. (please explain how you think the 14 day listing limitation reduces server load. Most think it increases load)
2) No, it doesn't. It just makes listing expensive items cost more to list, which will, eventually, most likely, increase inflation.

Necrotech_Master · June 24

robpr wrote: »

Its the Cipher, not many people need this one-time item now when 2x exp events and scrolls are so common. I got similar item, Mourning Dew, from IA random pack. Could not for the love of god sell it for 2 months, even heavily undercutting. There was simply no demand for it.
If we weren't showered with exp scrolls from login rewards and crates, then sure.

mourning dew had 2 problems why the price plummeted lol

firstly, the amount of people who can even make the 1 recipe that demands the item is so miniscule theres not a lot of demand to begin with

and secondly the fact that it does drop semi regularly from the archive provisioning satchels glutted the already very small market for them

back in january before it was common knowledge that the mourning dew dropped from the archive satchels they were selling for like 1.7 mil

now it was difficult to get them to sell for around 300k

LaintalAy · June 24

CrazyKitty wrote: »

Some of the posters in this thread are posting comments that are not rational.

Let's go with a real life example to make the point.

I have a car that Kelly Blue Book says is worth 20k. If I want to sell my car quickly, should I put it on the market for 18k or for 10k? Sure, it will sell really fast for 10k because the asking price is half what it's worth, but is it a reasonable argument to claim I should try to sell the car for 10K?

Dark_Lord_Kuro wrote: »

They should cutblisting fees by 50%

This is a reasonable point. If the listing time is half what it used to be, the listing fee should also be half what it used to be. The argument given to us by ZOS was that cutting the listing times to 14 days would free up server resources. They said nothing about trying to create a gold sink.

The 14 day listing time effectively penalizes everyone who relies on guild sales to earn gold, and disproportionately impacts the long time vet players who typically have more items of high value to sell.

I feel like this is another little step toward making ESO a strictly casual questing game by reducing yet another competitive aspect of the game.

There is no 'Kelly Blue Book' in ESO.
TTC is no equivalent.

Therefore, using your example:

You could pay to advertise your car for one month at 18K and it might sell. If it doesn't, then you'd need to spend more money to advertise it again. You are paying to advertise, as people don't just automatically know that you are selling your car.

Another flaw in your example is that you haven't mentioned the initial cost of your car.
Did you get it for free? Then it doesn't really matter what you sell it for, as you don't need to recoup the cost.

If not, then I don't need to discuss the reality of what you actually paid for the car.
That would completely destroy your argument.

ProudMary · June 25

LaintalAy wrote: »

CrazyKitty wrote: »

Some of the posters in this thread are posting comments that are not rational.

Let's go with a real life example to make the point.

I have a car that Kelly Blue Book says is worth 20k. If I want to sell my car quickly, should I put it on the market for 18k or for 10k? Sure, it will sell really fast for 10k because the asking price is half what it's worth, but is it a reasonable argument to claim I should try to sell the car for 10K?

Dark_Lord_Kuro wrote: »

They should cutblisting fees by 50%

This is a reasonable point. If the listing time is half what it used to be, the listing fee should also be half what it used to be. The argument given to us by ZOS was that cutting the listing times to 14 days would free up server resources. They said nothing about trying to create a gold sink.

The 14 day listing time effectively penalizes everyone who relies on guild sales to earn gold, and disproportionately impacts the long time vet players who typically have more items of high value to sell.

I feel like this is another little step toward making ESO a strictly casual questing game by reducing yet another competitive aspect of the game.

There is no 'Kelly Blue Book' in ESO.
TTC is no equivalent.

Therefore, using your example:

You could pay to advertise your car for one month at 18K and it might sell. If it doesn't, then you'd need to spend more money to advertise it again. You are paying to advertise, as people don't just automatically know that you are selling your car.

Another flaw in your example is that you haven't mentioned the initial cost of your car.
Did you get it for free? Then it doesn't really matter what you sell it for, as you don't need to recoup the cost.

If not, then I don't need to discuss the reality of what you actually paid for the car.
That would completely destroy your argument.

The points Crazykitty are making in this thread are valid and sensible. Whereas your points make no sense to me.

LaintalAy · June 26

ProudMary wrote: »

LaintalAy wrote: »

CrazyKitty wrote: »

Some of the posters in this thread are posting comments that are not rational.

Let's go with a real life example to make the point.

I have a car that Kelly Blue Book says is worth 20k. If I want to sell my car quickly, should I put it on the market for 18k or for 10k? Sure, it will sell really fast for 10k because the asking price is half what it's worth, but is it a reasonable argument to claim I should try to sell the car for 10K?

Dark_Lord_Kuro wrote: »

They should cutblisting fees by 50%

This is a reasonable point. If the listing time is half what it used to be, the listing fee should also be half what it used to be. The argument given to us by ZOS was that cutting the listing times to 14 days would free up server resources. They said nothing about trying to create a gold sink.

The 14 day listing time effectively penalizes everyone who relies on guild sales to earn gold, and disproportionately impacts the long time vet players who typically have more items of high value to sell.

I feel like this is another little step toward making ESO a strictly casual questing game by reducing yet another competitive aspect of the game.

There is no 'Kelly Blue Book' in ESO.
TTC is no equivalent.

Therefore, using your example:

You could pay to advertise your car for one month at 18K and it might sell. If it doesn't, then you'd need to spend more money to advertise it again. You are paying to advertise, as people don't just automatically know that you are selling your car.

Another flaw in your example is that you haven't mentioned the initial cost of your car.
Did you get it for free? Then it doesn't really matter what you sell it for, as you don't need to recoup the cost.

If not, then I don't need to discuss the reality of what you actually paid for the car.
That would completely destroy your argument.

The points Crazykitty are making in this thread are valid and sensible. Whereas your points make no sense to me.

Let me put it this way:
Let's assume that I don't subscribe to ESO+

My bank space is limited to 240 for all items. This can be exceeded just with crafting mats alone
You can buy 360 extra spaces in chests. Use crafting writs or crowns, I don't care.
Once you have trained your mount for 60 days straight and spent 3600 Crowns for the 3 pack animals, you have 215 bag
Giving a total of 815 spaces

So what if that isn't enough?

You can join five guilds and gain an extra 150 spaces until they sell or expire after 30 days.
Once expired, they can then sit in your mail account for 30? days.
all for ***free***

So before the changes, one or more items may have sat in a guild trading slot for thirty days, then expired and floated into your mail account for another 30 days. So 60 days without ever needing to go into either your bank or your bag.

Now it's a total of 28.

This is what these changes are really about.
It is not really comparable to the second-hand car market.