Turtle_Bot wrote: »

Going to be interesting to watch all the fotm sorcs

Turtle_Bot wrote: »

Zabagad wrote: »

Turtle_Bot wrote: »

alongside that scribing effect that removes 1 instance of shield each time it hits

Ups - haven't found that in the Patchnotes and I don't want to go to the PTS - so you have a link for me regarding this?

Sounds a bit to much and first thoughts are [snip] and [snip] and is there the same for HoT and negate next heal and next cloak and....
So before I get mad - please give me something where I can get all the details about this...

It's one of the Focus scripts for the Trample skill. Here's a screenshot:



The stupid thing about this effect is that the equivalent effect for healing (heal absorption) caps out at just over 5k, this effect completely deletes the shield no matter how big (or small) it is, it's just gone...

Caecus0 wrote: »

IDK where people are getting the idea that a majority of the playerbase is either Sorc or NB. I play every class (except Arcanist just by virtue that I haven't had a lot of time to level one) and the majority of classes I see are Sorcs, Arcanists and DKs. I see NBs about as often as Templars and Wardens, the latter of which is very strange because Wardens are VERY strong.

I keep seeing all the hate about NBs and sure, they can pack a punch, but they are usually very squishy. When I'm on my NB, it's difficult to do anything in an outnumbered fight if they are even remotely good. Blocking shuts down my NB hard and it is very easy to get caught out of place and just simply die. The NBs saving grace is the burst wombo combo, and if that doesn't kill their target, they're going to have a bad time. The stealth can be annoying to deal with at times, but a lot of things can break it. Everyone is running Weakness to Elements now and that breaks stealth because reasons. Basically, even uncoordinated groups will mess up a NB. My advise against people that hate NB so much are to bring Entropy from the Mage's guild (because that breaks stealth too), Weakness to Elements, or any other form of stealth detection. Combine that with a damage shield and blocking and you are all set to make any NB guaranteed to ignore you or pull their hair out.

These issues are not what I face on either my DK or Sorcerer. If my Sorcerer's burst fails, they have so much pressure damage that it doesn't even matter. Streak is also one of the best skills in the game by far, and being on the receiving end of it is the most frustrating thing to deal with when you are trying to pump damage into them. My DK can be a mixed bag at times, but I can definitely face down more than 1 opponent at a time with virtually nowhere near as many issues as my NB. I gave them Rushing Agony and it's insane how a single Stampede > Take Flight combo can completely wreck a group.

It's hard to gauge my Warden since I built them as a healer. They just plain don't die unless I have an entire group of 4 on me.

Zabagad wrote: »

Caecus0 wrote: »

IDK where people are getting the idea that a majority of the playerbase is either Sorc or NB. I play every class (except Arcanist just by virtue that I haven't had a lot of time to level one) and the majority of classes I see are Sorcs, Arcanists and DKs. I see NBs about as often as Templars and Wardens, the latter of which is very strange because Wardens are VERY strong.

NB is still the most played class in Cyro (just in case - topic is PvP) - but Sorc is closing the gap.
There are many different methods to measure that - and they all have a (slightly) different results.
The only 2 results which are in all methods the same are #1 NB and #7 Necro (pretty sure all methods have sorc now as #2)

My personal method shows for this campaign 28% NB and 22% Sorcs
(so it's not 75% as OP said - but he is right in his main point so I didn't "correct" that before)
and my method is underestimating NB pretty sure.
And btw DK is at ~15% Arc at ~ 7% and even the numbers can vary a bit and are not sig so far (for U41) - but the range is already accurate.

So that has nothing to do with hate - it's just what it is. (Sorc main here)

Galeriano2 wrote: »

StaticWave wrote: »

ZOS is to blame, and the players are also to blame.

The forums is full of players who are barely experienced enough in PvP. A buff like U41 Ward may seem fine and needed for them, but good players know it's broken. But see, that's why we have PTS. Players like me who mained Sorc for a long time and are decent at the class have provided feedback on U41 Ward, and feedback on how to improve Sorc without over buffing it, but our feedback are lost in the noise.

We used to have a Class Rep program to prevent that, but ZOS didn't listen to them either lol. The program was scratched because what's the point of having Class Reps providing ZOS feedback when they were gonna do their own thing anyway.

That's why this problem is two fold. We have inexperienced players with a lack of in-game testing shout over the more experienced players who've done testings. We also have developers who spin suggestions their own way instead of listening to the playerbase.

When it comes to the noise I think I wouldn't lie if I tell that the biggest noise about hardened ward was made by You and that possibly half of negative comments towards hardened ward after U41 release was made by You so if anything is being lost in noise it will be everyones else's opinion on hardened ward change due to how much noise You've made. Sorry but if You think devs will take opinion of 1 person who created hundereds of comments about certain subject as reliable source of information than You're mistaken. For devs to actually make changes based on player's feedback just within 1-2 major patch cycles, something would have to be bombarded with begative feedback like for example oakensoul was. Hardened ward is not being bombared with such negative feedback and majority of people just doesn't seem to be bothered by it as much as You do.

Zabagad wrote: »

Turtle_Bot wrote: »

Zabagad wrote: »

Turtle_Bot wrote: »

alongside that scribing effect that removes 1 instance of shield each time it hits

Ups - haven't found that in the Patchnotes and I don't want to go to the PTS - so you have a link for me regarding this?

Sounds a bit to much and first thoughts are [snip] and [snip] and is there the same for HoT and negate next heal and next cloak and....
So before I get mad - please give me something where I can get all the details about this...

It's one of the Focus scripts for the Trample skill. Here's a screenshot:



The stupid thing about this effect is that the equivalent effect for healing (heal absorption) caps out at just over 5k, this effect completely deletes the shield no matter how big (or small) it is, it's just gone...

Thanks - but is that effect tested? Or even better - did you test it?

I'm not sure with this phrase "up to" and "effect" and I have at least doubts that it would realy remove a 14K shield completly.
So I have hope until somebody tested it and said that this is realy what it does.
So maybe I should go on the PTS sooner then I thought.
But if this is realy like you said, I guess it's worth an own thread in the PTS forum anyway...

Thank again!

Edit: Ok after a first and very quick search I understand it as a skill with 2s until it happens in a 5m radius.
So this is nothing everybody will slot and use and more a special thing with 2s to counter it (leaving the area) and so I'm reassured for now...

Meurto wrote: »

StaticWave wrote: »

Galeriano2 wrote: »

StaticWave wrote: »

ZOS is to blame, and the players are also to blame.

The forums is full of players who are barely experienced enough in PvP. A buff like U41 Ward may seem fine and needed for them, but good players know it's broken. But see, that's why we have PTS. Players like me who mained Sorc for a long time and are decent at the class have provided feedback on U41 Ward, and feedback on how to improve Sorc without over buffing it, but our feedback are lost in the noise.

We used to have a Class Rep program to prevent that, but ZOS didn't listen to them either lol. The program was scratched because what's the point of having Class Reps providing ZOS feedback when they were gonna do their own thing anyway.

That's why this problem is two fold. We have inexperienced players with a lack of in-game testing shout over the more experienced players who've done testings. We also have developers who spin suggestions their own way instead of listening to the playerbase.

When it comes to the noise I think I wouldn't lie if I tell that the biggest noise about hardened ward was made by You and that possibly half of negative comments towards hardened ward after U41 release was made by You so if anything is being lost in noise it will be everyones else's opinion on hardened ward change due to how much noise You've made. Sorry but if You think devs will take opinion of 1 person who created hundereds of comments about certain subject as reliable source of information than You're mistaken. For devs to actually make changes based on player's feedback just within 1-2 major patch cycles, something would have to be bombarded with begative feedback like for example oakensoul was. Hardened ward is not being bombared with such negative feedback and majority of people just doesn't seem to be bothered by it as much as You do.

Would you want to join several discords that house many people who agree that Ward is broken? I'm just the most vocal on the forums. Doesn't mean there aren't others like me.

Or would you want me to make a compilation of every single person who thinks Ward is broken and post it here?

You are wasting your time trying to have any discussion with this person. They have their agenda and already made their mind up so any point/counterpoint is largely ignored. Seems their account was banned as this seems to be version 2.0 with the same name.

Overall, PvP is in dire straits. I thought about resubbing, but everything just seems as bad as it has been the last couple of years. I don't really see chance that PvP will see any meaningful balance before the plug is pulled on this game.

Bashev wrote: »

So, only NBs and Sorcs everywhere. The 2 most annoying classes with their escape tools.

StaticWave wrote: »

Galeriano2 wrote: »

StaticWave wrote: »

ZOS is to blame, and the players are also to blame.

The forums is full of players who are barely experienced enough in PvP. A buff like U41 Ward may seem fine and needed for them, but good players know it's broken. But see, that's why we have PTS. Players like me who mained Sorc for a long time and are decent at the class have provided feedback on U41 Ward, and feedback on how to improve Sorc without over buffing it, but our feedback are lost in the noise.

We used to have a Class Rep program to prevent that, but ZOS didn't listen to them either lol. The program was scratched because what's the point of having Class Reps providing ZOS feedback when they were gonna do their own thing anyway.

That's why this problem is two fold. We have inexperienced players with a lack of in-game testing shout over the more experienced players who've done testings. We also have developers who spin suggestions their own way instead of listening to the playerbase.

When it comes to the noise I think I wouldn't lie if I tell that the biggest noise about hardened ward was made by You and that possibly half of negative comments towards hardened ward after U41 release was made by You so if anything is being lost in noise it will be everyones else's opinion on hardened ward change due to how much noise You've made. Sorry but if You think devs will take opinion of 1 person who created hundereds of comments about certain subject as reliable source of information than You're mistaken. For devs to actually make changes based on player's feedback just within 1-2 major patch cycles, something would have to be bombarded with begative feedback like for example oakensoul was. Hardened ward is not being bombared with such negative feedback and majority of people just doesn't seem to be bothered by it as much as You do.

Would you want to join several discords that house many people who agree that Ward is broken? I'm just the most vocal on the forums. Doesn't mean there aren't others like me.

Or would you want me to make a compilation of every single person who thinks Ward is broken and post it here?

Zabagad wrote: »

Galeriano2 wrote: »

Caecus0 wrote: »

IDK where people are getting the idea that a majority of the playerbase is either Sorc or NB. I play every class (except Arcanist just by virtue that I haven't had a lot of time to level one) and the majority of classes I see are Sorcs, Arcanists and DKs. I see NBs about as often as Templars and Wardens, the latter of which is very strange because Wardens are VERY strong.

I keep seeing all the hate about NBs and sure, they can pack a punch, but they are usually very squishy. When I'm on my NB, it's difficult to do anything in an outnumbered fight if they are even remotely good. Blocking shuts down my NB hard and it is very easy to get caught out of place and just simply die. The NBs saving grace is the burst wombo combo, and if that doesn't kill their target, they're going to have a bad time. The stealth can be annoying to deal with at times, but a lot of things can break it. Everyone is running Weakness to Elements now and that breaks stealth because reasons. Basically, even uncoordinated groups will mess up a NB. My advise against people that hate NB so much are to bring Entropy from the Mage's guild (because that breaks stealth too), Weakness to Elements, or any other form of stealth detection. Combine that with a damage shield and blocking and you are all set to make any NB guaranteed to ignore you or pull their hair out.

These issues are not what I face on either my DK or Sorcerer. If my Sorcerer's burst fails, they have so much pressure damage that it doesn't even matter. Streak is also one of the best skills in the game by far, and being on the receiving end of it is the most frustrating thing to deal with when you are trying to pump damage into them. My DK can be a mixed bag at times, but I can definitely face down more than 1 opponent at a time with virtually nowhere near as many issues as my NB. I gave them Rushing Agony and it's insane how a single Stampede > Take Flight combo can completely wreck a group.

It's hard to gauge my Warden since I built them as a healer. They just plain don't die unless I have an entire group of 4 on me.

There is plenty of tools that measure class population in Cyrodill. Nb is dominating in popularity for few years straight. Few days after U41 release history of classes population was looking something like that

That was a quick shot after 3 days only - this is after 11 days:


Edit: I was quicker quoting then your edit (thanks for the kudos)

Sporigudinai wrote: »

The problem is that, adding more things to be processed in Cyro will make the lag worse.

Galeriano2 wrote: »

Caecus0 wrote: »

IDK where people are getting the idea that a majority of the playerbase is either Sorc or NB. I play every class (except Arcanist just by virtue that I haven't had a lot of time to level one) and the majority of classes I see are Sorcs, Arcanists and DKs. I see NBs about as often as Templars and Wardens, the latter of which is very strange because Wardens are VERY strong.

I keep seeing all the hate about NBs and sure, they can pack a punch, but they are usually very squishy. When I'm on my NB, it's difficult to do anything in an outnumbered fight if they are even remotely good. Blocking shuts down my NB hard and it is very easy to get caught out of place and just simply die. The NBs saving grace is the burst wombo combo, and if that doesn't kill their target, they're going to have a bad time. The stealth can be annoying to deal with at times, but a lot of things can break it. Everyone is running Weakness to Elements now and that breaks stealth because reasons. Basically, even uncoordinated groups will mess up a NB. My advise against people that hate NB so much are to bring Entropy from the Mage's guild (because that breaks stealth too), Weakness to Elements, or any other form of stealth detection. Combine that with a damage shield and blocking and you are all set to make any NB guaranteed to ignore you or pull their hair out.

These issues are not what I face on either my DK or Sorcerer. If my Sorcerer's burst fails, they have so much pressure damage that it doesn't even matter. Streak is also one of the best skills in the game by far, and being on the receiving end of it is the most frustrating thing to deal with when you are trying to pump damage into them. My DK can be a mixed bag at times, but I can definitely face down more than 1 opponent at a time with virtually nowhere near as many issues as my NB. I gave them Rushing Agony and it's insane how a single Stampede > Take Flight combo can completely wreck a group.

It's hard to gauge my Warden since I built them as a healer. They just plain don't die unless I have an entire group of 4 on me.

There is plenty of tools that measure class population in Cyrodill. Nb is dominating in popularity for few years straight. Few days after U41 release history of classes population was looking something like that (shoutouts to @Zabagad for making this chart)

Despite all its "weaknesses" nightblade is still the easiest to play for average players because it requires to least amount of skill to actually deal some noticable damage to someone and when his defenses work they are pretty much some of the strongest in the game. On other classes majority of nb players wouldn't be able to deal fraction of pressure they can do on nightblade.

Caecus0 wrote: »

Galeriano2 wrote: »

Caecus0 wrote: »

IDK where people are getting the idea that a majority of the playerbase is either Sorc or NB. I play every class (except Arcanist just by virtue that I haven't had a lot of time to level one) and the majority of classes I see are Sorcs, Arcanists and DKs. I see NBs about as often as Templars and Wardens, the latter of which is very strange because Wardens are VERY strong.

I keep seeing all the hate about NBs and sure, they can pack a punch, but they are usually very squishy. When I'm on my NB, it's difficult to do anything in an outnumbered fight if they are even remotely good. Blocking shuts down my NB hard and it is very easy to get caught out of place and just simply die. The NBs saving grace is the burst wombo combo, and if that doesn't kill their target, they're going to have a bad time. The stealth can be annoying to deal with at times, but a lot of things can break it. Everyone is running Weakness to Elements now and that breaks stealth because reasons. Basically, even uncoordinated groups will mess up a NB. My advise against people that hate NB so much are to bring Entropy from the Mage's guild (because that breaks stealth too), Weakness to Elements, or any other form of stealth detection. Combine that with a damage shield and blocking and you are all set to make any NB guaranteed to ignore you or pull their hair out.

These issues are not what I face on either my DK or Sorcerer. If my Sorcerer's burst fails, they have so much pressure damage that it doesn't even matter. Streak is also one of the best skills in the game by far, and being on the receiving end of it is the most frustrating thing to deal with when you are trying to pump damage into them. My DK can be a mixed bag at times, but I can definitely face down more than 1 opponent at a time with virtually nowhere near as many issues as my NB. I gave them Rushing Agony and it's insane how a single Stampede > Take Flight combo can completely wreck a group.

It's hard to gauge my Warden since I built them as a healer. They just plain don't die unless I have an entire group of 4 on me.

There is plenty of tools that measure class population in Cyrodill. Nb is dominating in popularity for few years straight. Few days after U41 release history of classes population was looking something like that (shoutouts to @Zabagad for making this chart)

Despite all its "weaknesses" nightblade is still the easiest to play for average players because it requires to least amount of skill to actually deal some noticable damage to someone and when his defenses work they are pretty much some of the strongest in the game. On other classes majority of nb players wouldn't be able to deal fraction of pressure they can do on nightblade.

What?

I have heard many things about NB being a popular thing, but not a single person has ever said NBs are the easiest for new players. That is just factually incorrect. Everyone I have ever talked to in this game has said that NBs are very good, but require ALOT of skill. What you're saying is just wrong.

I can hop on literally any of the classes I have leveled and get better results than I could on a NB. I can hop on my Warden, go into the middle of a fight and literally not be in danger of dying. I can hope on my Sorc and kill players more consistently than my NB and die less often because Streak and Hardened Ward are just insane skills.

So either I am a terrible player who excels with these classes because they are just easier to play (which is what I suspect) or for some reason, those harder classes somehow click for me better than the NB does.

Caecus0 wrote: »

Galeriano2 wrote: »

Caecus0 wrote: »

IDK where people are getting the idea that a majority of the playerbase is either Sorc or NB. I play every class (except Arcanist just by virtue that I haven't had a lot of time to level one) and the majority of classes I see are Sorcs, Arcanists and DKs. I see NBs about as often as Templars and Wardens, the latter of which is very strange because Wardens are VERY strong.

I keep seeing all the hate about NBs and sure, they can pack a punch, but they are usually very squishy. When I'm on my NB, it's difficult to do anything in an outnumbered fight if they are even remotely good. Blocking shuts down my NB hard and it is very easy to get caught out of place and just simply die. The NBs saving grace is the burst wombo combo, and if that doesn't kill their target, they're going to have a bad time. The stealth can be annoying to deal with at times, but a lot of things can break it. Everyone is running Weakness to Elements now and that breaks stealth because reasons. Basically, even uncoordinated groups will mess up a NB. My advise against people that hate NB so much are to bring Entropy from the Mage's guild (because that breaks stealth too), Weakness to Elements, or any other form of stealth detection. Combine that with a damage shield and blocking and you are all set to make any NB guaranteed to ignore you or pull their hair out.

These issues are not what I face on either my DK or Sorcerer. If my Sorcerer's burst fails, they have so much pressure damage that it doesn't even matter. Streak is also one of the best skills in the game by far, and being on the receiving end of it is the most frustrating thing to deal with when you are trying to pump damage into them. My DK can be a mixed bag at times, but I can definitely face down more than 1 opponent at a time with virtually nowhere near as many issues as my NB. I gave them Rushing Agony and it's insane how a single Stampede > Take Flight combo can completely wreck a group.

It's hard to gauge my Warden since I built them as a healer. They just plain don't die unless I have an entire group of 4 on me.

There is plenty of tools that measure class population in Cyrodill. Nb is dominating in popularity for few years straight. Few days after U41 release history of classes population was looking something like that (shoutouts to @Zabagad for making this chart)

Despite all its "weaknesses" nightblade is still the easiest to play for average players because it requires to least amount of skill to actually deal some noticable damage to someone and when his defenses work they are pretty much some of the strongest in the game. On other classes majority of nb players wouldn't be able to deal fraction of pressure they can do on nightblade.

What?

I have heard many things about NB being a popular thing, but not a single person has ever said NBs are the easiest for new players. That is just factually incorrect. Everyone I have ever talked to in this game has said that NBs are very good, but require ALOT of skill. What you're saying is just wrong.

I can hop on literally any of the classes I have leveled and get better results than I could on a NB. I can hop on my Warden, go into the middle of a fight and literally not be in danger of dying. I can hope on my Sorc and kill players more consistently than my NB and die less often because Streak and Hardened Ward are just insane skills.

So either I am a terrible player who excels with these classes because they are just easier to play (which is what I suspect) or for some reason, those harder classes somehow click for me better than the NB does.