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Hybridization Ruined Every Aspect of the Game for Me

  • Vulkunne
    Vulkunne
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    Stamicka wrote: »
    At this point I think it is safe to say that hybridization was a bad idea.

    Is wasn't a bad idea. It allowed variation in this game to be closer to Elder Scrolls.

    It was a change which I truly love. Mainly because I don't have to carry staff while having magicka based builds. I can mix medium & light armour for better utilities. Abilities are based on highest stat/resource allowing classes like Templar to utilize their whole skill set not half of them. It also allowed Stamina sorcerers access to the powerful magicka based skills that were underused.
    Look at Dragonknights right now. They can go full Fire even if having WP/Stamina as primary and not have to worry about resources. Similarly a Magicka DK can go full poison if wishes to do so.

    Look at a stam Warden, which now can use 1/3 of the skill set that was off. How about stamina Necromancers?

    Have you forgotten that many of the existing classes were forced to weapon skills for primary damage because their good class skills were on different Damage type than their build?

    I say hybridization brought freedom of choice and variety in the game as a true Elder Scrolls game should.

    Completely agree. I was strongly opposed to this at first however was also not completely aware of how the changes would be implemented. After seeing the postproduction gameplay I'm impressed and totally agree this was a good thing the devs blessed us with. One of the times they did right. But that doesn't mean there isn't more work to be done in some areas.
    Edited by Vulkunne on April 3, 2024 11:01PM
    Today Victory is mine, Long Live the Empire. GG
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  • Sakiri
    Sakiri
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    Sakiri wrote: »
    Sakiri wrote: »
    Sakiri wrote: »
    SO basically make me run all weapon skills again and ignore my class abilities.

    No thanks.

    Why are you Stam then

    What even do we call this idea of Stamina magic

    Maybe.. Stamicka?

    Because it's an option, and it's fun?

    No class should have to ignore class abilities.

    Why am I carrying this heavy maul when I don't even need to use it to deal damage

    Then why pick a class if you're only going to use weapon abilities?

    you're not going to change my mind, btw.

    Why do Weapon Abilities exist?

    Change my mind @Sakiri , why did StamDK need Whip when it had D Swing?

    Ps. Don't take this question personally. We had lots of discussions during the "Stam Whip Fever" Era which preceded this holistic hybridization about Form vs Function and class identity. The above question persists from that time - and all of the answers then were Mechanical, nobody has yet offered a compelling Thematic reason that I can recall.

    They didn't, however most sorcs had to completely ignore ALL their class abilities. There's a difference between not using all class abilities, and using none.

    My sorc used bow abilities, fighter's guild abilities, and (lol) ww transform.
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  • Urzigurumash
    Urzigurumash
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    Sakiri wrote: »
    Sakiri wrote: »
    Sakiri wrote: »
    Sakiri wrote: »
    SO basically make me run all weapon skills again and ignore my class abilities.

    No thanks.

    Why are you Stam then

    What even do we call this idea of Stamina magic

    Maybe.. Stamicka?

    Because it's an option, and it's fun?

    No class should have to ignore class abilities.

    Why am I carrying this heavy maul when I don't even need to use it to deal damage

    Then why pick a class if you're only going to use weapon abilities?

    you're not going to change my mind, btw.

    Why do Weapon Abilities exist?

    Change my mind @Sakiri , why did StamDK need Whip when it had D Swing?

    Ps. Don't take this question personally. We had lots of discussions during the "Stam Whip Fever" Era which preceded this holistic hybridization about Form vs Function and class identity. The above question persists from that time - and all of the answers then were Mechanical, nobody has yet offered a compelling Thematic reason that I can recall.

    They didn't, however most sorcs had to completely ignore ALL their class abilities. There's a difference between not using all class abilities, and using none.

    My sorc used bow abilities, fighter's guild abilities, and (lol) ww transform.

    Right but that's the class you picked, "Stam" Sorc? It can use the Lightning to move and buff, but not to deal damage? This was the Xbox Launch idea of the class.

    Thematically and mechanically that worked in the 2 x 4 class paradigm. Two Fighter classes: the quick Air Berserker and the slow Earth Knight, one Thief class, and one Monk class (or something, a stamplar main would have to explain it).

    I'm not sure, what was the idea in 2013 and 2014 of StamSorc and StamDK? These ideas of dichotomous Mag and Stam subclasses were just being formed?

    StamDK actually had hybrid scaling on Flames of Oblivion for a very long time, and we got our unique Damage skills long before Warden came out with Venomous Claw, Noxious Breath, and Corrosive Armor. I can only speak for myself as someone who chose the Earth Knight at launch, I regarded these Poison Skills with tremendous skepticism at their debut but by the eve of Hybridization regarded them as essential to the theme and mechanics of StamDK.
    Xbox NA AD / Day 1 ScrubDK / Wood Orc Cuisine Enthusiast
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  • Shadowbinder7
    Shadowbinder7
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    Stamicka wrote: »
    At this point I think it is safe to say that hybridization was a bad idea. There have been many changes that have made me unhappy with the game in recent years, but I think that hybridization might be one of the worst of them. Worst of all, hybridization hasn't just ruined PvP for me, it also ruined PvE. Let's look at how.

    1. Fewer Choices Than Ever
    This sounds contradictory I know. On paper, hybridization was supposed to open the door to many different types of playstyles, but in actuality, it has made the game more homogenous than it has ever been. This applies to both PvE and PvP. In PvE the rotations are stale and don't differ very much between the classes. In PvP, most builds use a mixture of medium and heavy armor, dual wield and ice staff, and even the same skills like vigor and ele sus. I used to have at least 2 of each class, one for stam, and one for mag. They often used to play differently from each other as well. Now I only need one of each class cause there's usually only one effective way to play the class. I essentially lost half of my characters because they became so boring or useless.

    2. Balance Issues
    The original game was built around the idea that magicka characters and stamina characters were separate and could not effectively use each others skills. There were trade offs which sometimes fundamentally changed how the classes were played. If players can have the best of both worlds, THEY WILL, which is exactly what hybridization has allowed. For a long time, vigor has been the best HoT in the game by a long shot. Since it only used to scale off of stamina/weapon damage, magic builds couldn't use it effectively. This resulted in magic builds having to rely on other HoTs (which were weaker). The trade off was that magic builds had access to spammable burst heals or shields to supplement their weaker HoTs. Meanwhile, stamina builds had a burst heal locked behind a 31 second ability (rally, later reduced to 20 seconds). So stamina builds had the strongest HoT, but they didn't have a spammable burst heal. Magicka builds had weaker HoTs, but access to shields or a spammable burst heal. With hybridization, there's no choice to be made, just use it all. Now we can throw on vigor AND a spammable burst heal AND 1 or 2 supplemental HoTs. Not only does this factor into the homogenization issue (cause virtually anyone will now slot vigor in PvP), but it also contirbutes to the tank meta in PvP in a HUGE way.

    Trade offs are important. Not only because they make the game easier to balance, but because they create new playstyles as well. Hybridization took away trade offs, now you just slot the best skills whether they cost magicka or stamina.

    3. It is Janky and Incomplete
    The original game wasn't built for hybrids so there's still a lot of outdated stats, sets, and buffs in the game. For example, why is weapon damage and weapon crit separate from spell damage and spell crit? This seems like such a pointless separation with hybridization and only leads to confusion. Major and minor buffs still reflect this separation which makes choosing potions very awkward. For example, spell potions only give you Major Sorcery and Major Prophecy. Meanwhile, most other sources of these buffs come with its counterpart. Ability cost is another thing. Light armor still reduces magicka skill costs and medium armor still reduces stamina skill costs. This all seems out of place for a hybrid system and makes hybridization even less enjoyable than it already is.

    Summary
    In summary, hybridization killed many playstyles, led to homogenization, caused balance issues by getting rid of trade offs, and made the game less enjoyable because of it's incompleteness. It really is one of the worst choices ever made.


    Just wanna add glad this thread has been made I have been trying to get this message across in multiple others.

    Everyone reading this who agrees really needs to start petitioning ZOS developers responsible for combat system to start paying more attention and fix things in a consistent fair way that can be enjoyable for everyone in the hardest content.

    I hope you are reading this ZOS devs, because ignoring is only going to result in you losing the top long time players and eventually your game crumbling, which would be a shame because of how beautiful and full of potential it is.

    Please balance all the classes magicka and stamina, figure out a way for consistency in damage dealers across the board in PVE. It should be similar in PVP too but I appreciate this is more difficult.

    But no excuses for a couple of classes to not be desirable in an endgame trifecta over others! Fix this!
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  • Trinotops
    Trinotops
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    It's easily the worst thing to happen to the game imo. Hybridization was better off as something you had to build into instead of being the norm. They could've easily added some sets or mythics to make it more competitive rather than making everything hybridized and completely ruining build diversity in the process.
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  • dk_dunkirk
    dk_dunkirk
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    This has been one of the best discussions I've ever seen on this forum, both pro and con. I agree that the hybridization has eliminated anything that might have been left that was interesting about combat in ESO, and for all the same reasons that OP listed. I took a long break from the game, and when I came back, the way they did this really threw me for a long time. Things were just... off, until I read up on the changes, stopped being confused about why spell and weapon damage was always the same, and adapted to the new meta.

    I understand the *massive* job that ZOS faces in trying to balance everything. Seven classes with 36 class skill/morphs, 8 other guild/curse skill lines, 600+ gear sets, scores of monster sets, 36 mythics, but, with every release, they just add more and more, and make the problem even worse. All of these "choices" get boiled down to a couple dozen sets and a couple scores of skills that everyone gravitates to, and I feel it takes a lot of the fun out of the *idea* of combat in the game, which I think is the weakest part of the game.

    I'm sitting here watching the anniversary live stream, and they're talking about scribing. The talking point is that you'll be able to customize your character for whatever you might be lacking in your setup -- FOUR THOUSAND COMBINATIONS! -- but let's face hard facts: Within days of release, the expert theory crafters (e.g., Deltia) will release a flurry of new videos on YouTube, and within a couple weeks, everyone will be using them the same way to fit this current hybridization homogenization, and this huge, new, "interesting" system will become as common and routine as everything else.

    By giving us SO many choices, and leaving some sticking out above the others (which would impossible NOT to), it kind of forces everyone's focus on whatever meta they've basically *designed* by the thousands of tweaks they've made to each individual thing. I'm jealous of the people who can play within the rules of this system, and find truly interesting, unique builds, and have the skill to make them competitive with the various meta approaches. I can't do it. I can't pull together all the skills, sets, passives, traits, enchants, buffs, etc., et. al., to be interesting enough to play over a meta build. I can't keep it all in my head. I've gotten *better* at it over the past couple of years, but I've still got a long way to go.

    Experience running with several guilds tells me that *most* players are like me, and we will simply find the meta of the meta (listen to Deltia; forget that Alcast exists now), and use what they tell us to. They've done the math, so to speak. And this is why at least half the DPS's in every trial are stamarcs. It works well, but they're stamped off an assembly line, and boring, and the situation ignores 90% of the rest of the "stuff" in the game.
    Edited by dk_dunkirk on April 5, 2024 12:48PM
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  • Vaqual
    Vaqual
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    This was also discussed previously and I can imagine people wont bother repeating their opinions again here.
    Here is the thread:
    https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/comment/8018433
    Edited by Vaqual on April 5, 2024 1:00PM
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  • Sakiri
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    Illusion of choice. Just because you can doesn't mean you will...

    It's like wows talents or eq's AA. Someone finds the best, and you use it or you're bad.
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  • Shagreth
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    Arcanist is just a complete mess right now with 3 damage skills being exactly the same on every single build, there is no reason to choose their spammable because of Cephaliarch's Flail doing 7 things at once. At first glance before release I really thought they meant the class to have 2 playstyles. Playstyle 1 as the traditional option without beam where you spend 2-4 GCD's buiding crux, then spending it via Tentacular Dread, kinda like Necro's 3s rotation. Playstyle 2 being the beam playstyle we see now, minus Cephaliarch's Flail being this weird spammable/execute/heal/debuff/cc that it currently is. I think it's only a matter of time before these options become a reality.
    I gave up on Arcanist for that reason, I can't tolerate tentacle tentacle beam. I desperately want a different playstyle.
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  • Lags
    Lags
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    TaSheen wrote: »
    I like it personally MUCH better than the way it was before. I've always played hybrids - at least now it's somewhat more flexible to do so.

    I really disliked the "choose only stam or mag" setup. Then again, I don't really like combat at all anyway. THAT is what's not fun in this game.

    This is very confusing to see in a thread about the games combat. But to each their own.

    But anyway, ya i agree with the OP, it ruined the diversity of the game, dumbed things down, and made the game much more boring. Which really sucks because class diversity was already mediocre compared to other mmos. Now its almost like non existent.
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  • Desiato
    Desiato
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    IMO, the purpose of the changes wasn't to make combat better for enthusiasts. It was to appease the skyrim masses who want every build they conceive of to be viable. Not optimal, but viable. They don't care about optimal.

    So now it's basically impossible to make a bad build in the traditional sense. Everything works whether one understands the systems or not.

    I don't like it either, but the skyrim casual is the one who dictates all changes to the game, not the online game enthusiast. I don't say this out of a place of bitterness, but acceptance. It is what it is and it's never going to change.
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  • tauriel01
    tauriel01
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    Stamicka wrote: »
    At this point I think it is safe to say that hybridization was a bad idea. There have been many changes that have made me unhappy with the game in recent years, but I think that hybridization might be one of the worst of them. Worst of all, hybridization hasn't just ruined PvP for me, it also ruined PvE. Let's look at how.

    Summary
    In summary, hybridization killed many playstyles, led to homogenization, caused balance issues by getting rid of trade offs, and made the game less enjoyable because of it's incompleteness. It really is one of the worst choices ever made.

    Amen. I've been singing that song for over a year. Worst.... decision.... ever ZOS
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  • Nerouyn
    Nerouyn
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    Stamicka wrote: »
    The original game was built around the idea that magicka characters and stamina characters were separate and could not effectively use each others skills.

    There were also no stamina morphs. Personally I think those are one of the weirdest additions to the game.

    Magical abilities - which pretty much all of the class ones obviously are - consume magicka. That's how most and definitely the single player Elder Scrolls games are.

    I level them to max on most characters, then lose them.

    They just don't make sense.
    Stamicka wrote: »
    The original game wasn't built for hybrids so there's still a lot of outdated stats, sets, and buffs in the game.

    Things may currently be a bit wonky but in online games, you and certainly the developers also have an eye on where they're going.

    Scribing is just around the corner.

    Personally I love most of the recent changes.
    Stamicka wrote: »
    They often used to play differently from each other as well.

    Just one of the many downsides to classes - which again are an aberration for Elder Scrolls - and especially when they have different mechanics is that finding a class you enjoy can be more difficult.

    Personally I'm super into nature stuff and love warden's visuals but on release mechanically they were super boring.

    Not into necromancy at all. After 10 years still haven't maxed undaunted on any of my characters. Perversely found the Necro class bloody brilliant, though odd lacking a perma pet.

    Leaving me with no class I enjoyed enough to really get into the game.

    I'm playing now and looking at changes now and seeing improvements in every class. I had levelled a few DKs to max and deleted them cos I just didn't enjoy them. Now I'm thinking maybe I should have at least one.
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  • barney2525
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    I think it's safe to say...

    You are welcome to Your OPINION ...

    But don't try and claim to talk for Me or Anyone else. I do not agree at all.

    :#
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  • ragnarok6644b14_ESO
    I like hybridization because TES has been the one game franchise that consistently allows it.

    In fact, I'd prefer it if they went even more in a TES direction with spell schools and stuff, and scribing is a long way there.

    My character in TESIV: Oblivion is a battlemage in a heavy cuirass, clothing pants, light helm, clothing hands, and clothing feet. She is a mage with 100 in almost every magical skill (except Mysticism, better get my telekinesis and soultrap casts rolling) and her preferred weapon is a two-handed Daedric claymore that's heavily enchanted.

    Pre-hybridization, that build was... kinda okay. Mostly just played like a regular sorcerer that couldn't regenerate stamina well and never hit anything with her greatsword.

    Post-hybridization, it feels like it does in Oblivion (though clothing has to be light armor, and the spells are very different since there's no magicka schools or anything). But the combat /feel/ is the same.
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  • Sakiri
    Sakiri
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    Nerouyn wrote: »
    Stamicka wrote: »
    The original game was built around the idea that magicka characters and stamina characters were separate and could not effectively use each others skills.

    There were also no stamina morphs. Personally I think those are one of the weirdest additions to the game.

    Magical abilities - which pretty much all of the class ones obviously are - consume magicka. That's how most and definitely the single player Elder Scrolls games are.

    I level them to max on most characters, then lose them.

    They just don't make sense.
    Stamicka wrote: »
    The original game wasn't built for hybrids so there's still a lot of outdated stats, sets, and buffs in the game.

    Things may currently be a bit wonky but in online games, you and certainly the developers also have an eye on where they're going.

    Scribing is just around the corner.

    Personally I love most of the recent changes.
    Stamicka wrote: »
    They often used to play differently from each other as well.

    Just one of the many downsides to classes - which again are an aberration for Elder Scrolls - and especially when they have different mechanics is that finding a class you enjoy can be more difficult.

    Personally I'm super into nature stuff and love warden's visuals but on release mechanically they were super boring.

    Not into necromancy at all. After 10 years still haven't maxed undaunted on any of my characters. Perversely found the Necro class bloody brilliant, though odd lacking a perma pet.

    Leaving me with no class I enjoyed enough to really get into the game.

    I'm playing now and looking at changes now and seeing improvements in every class. I had levelled a few DKs to max and deleted them cos I just didn't enjoy them. Now I'm thinking maybe I should have at least one.

    But there's always been classes in the elder scrolls games.

    Only Skyrim removed that.

    Most people that I know of made custom skill loadouts, but there were still premade classes.
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  • ragnarok6644b14_ESO
    Sakiri wrote: »
    Nerouyn wrote: »
    Stamicka wrote: »
    The original game was built around the idea that magicka characters and stamina characters were separate and could not effectively use each others skills.

    There were also no stamina morphs. Personally I think those are one of the weirdest additions to the game.

    Magical abilities - which pretty much all of the class ones obviously are - consume magicka. That's how most and definitely the single player Elder Scrolls games are.

    I level them to max on most characters, then lose them.

    They just don't make sense.
    Stamicka wrote: »
    The original game wasn't built for hybrids so there's still a lot of outdated stats, sets, and buffs in the game.

    Things may currently be a bit wonky but in online games, you and certainly the developers also have an eye on where they're going.

    Scribing is just around the corner.

    Personally I love most of the recent changes.
    Stamicka wrote: »
    They often used to play differently from each other as well.

    Just one of the many downsides to classes - which again are an aberration for Elder Scrolls - and especially when they have different mechanics is that finding a class you enjoy can be more difficult.

    Personally I'm super into nature stuff and love warden's visuals but on release mechanically they were super boring.

    Not into necromancy at all. After 10 years still haven't maxed undaunted on any of my characters. Perversely found the Necro class bloody brilliant, though odd lacking a perma pet.

    Leaving me with no class I enjoyed enough to really get into the game.

    I'm playing now and looking at changes now and seeing improvements in every class. I had levelled a few DKs to max and deleted them cos I just didn't enjoy them. Now I'm thinking maybe I should have at least one.

    But there's always been classes in the elder scrolls games.

    Only Skyrim removed that.

    Most people that I know of made custom skill loadouts, but there were still premade classes.

    Yes, but even those premade classes could do everything.

    You played your TESIV Oblivion Conjurationist long enough and use a sword, you could become Blade 100 and still have Blunt at 35, even if Blunt is technically the major skill for the premade class.

    Currently, if I'm a templar and I want to shoot electricity, I... er, wait for SCRIBING!

    (which is why I think scribing is cool).
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  • Gaebriel0410
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    I disagree with everything in the OP, hybridization has made the game a thousand times better and more varied, and most importantly more fun.

    I make characters, not optimal spreadsheet avatars. Hybridization changes opened so many options for more interesting character builds it's insane.

    When players say "the skills/rotations/etc are stale/boring and the same for everyone" they tend to forget that the copypaste spreadsheet playstyle is not the only correct one, and not all players think that way.

    That whole mindset of "everything except the best is trash" is not a good one imo, as it will only lead to disappointment, if not sooner then later.

    So yeah I am all in favour of this direction, and pretty excited for scribing!
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  • Nerouyn
    Nerouyn
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    Sakiri wrote: »
    But there's always been classes in the elder scrolls games.

    Only Skyrim removed that.

    Most people that I know of made custom skill loadouts, but there were still premade classes.

    We often see this claim and while it is true that TES games have had things they call classes, they haven't actually qualified as classes in the traditional sense or as we see them in ESO.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Character_class

    https://en.uesp.net/wiki/Online:Classes

    Morrowind and Oblivion have "classes" but unlike ESO have a completely open and free character development system with no unique abilities divided up among different classes. One character can do it all.

    https://en.uesp.net/wiki/Morrowind:Classes

    https://en.uesp.net/wiki/Oblivion:Classes

    Skyrim actually went backwards in this respect with their implementation of perks - with limited perk points - at least at launch.

    However among the most popular mods were those which added unlimited perk points so eventually the devs patched in a base game way to get more.
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  • Jimbru
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    Hybridization and Oakensoul have removed class and build uniqueness from the game. I can take literally the same set of Oakensoul + Sergeant's Mail + Order's Wrath + Slimecraw head, mostly the same set of skills (Unstable Wall, Orb, Elemental Sus, Echoing Vigor...), stick it on any class with 64 mag and a lightning staff, and do anything short of vet trials with it. It's BORING. So lately, I've started rejecting the heavy attack meta and switching back to old school two-bar builds just to have some variety in my gaming experience.
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  • ragnarok6644b14_ESO
    Jimbru wrote: »
    Hybridization and Oakensoul have removed class and build uniqueness from the game. I can take literally the same set of Oakensoul + Sergeant's Mail + Order's Wrath + Slimecraw head, mostly the same set of skills (Unstable Wall, Orb, Elemental Sus, Echoing Vigor...), stick it on any class with 64 mag and a lightning staff, and do anything short of vet trials with it. It's BORING. So lately, I've started rejecting the heavy attack meta and switching back to old school two-bar builds just to have some variety in my gaming experience.

    Sounds like it's working as intended by allowing casuals to finish the game easily while also giving build diversity space to exist without being totally consumed by the ONE WEIRD TRICK that you discovered.

    Huh.
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  • Sakiri
    Sakiri
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    Nerouyn wrote: »
    Sakiri wrote: »
    But there's always been classes in the elder scrolls games.

    Only Skyrim removed that.

    Most people that I know of made custom skill loadouts, but there were still premade classes.

    We often see this claim and while it is true that TES games have had things they call classes, they haven't actually qualified as classes in the traditional sense or as we see them in ESO.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Character_class

    https://en.uesp.net/wiki/Online:Classes

    Morrowind and Oblivion have "classes" but unlike ESO have a completely open and free character development system with no unique abilities divided up among different classes. One character can do it all.

    https://en.uesp.net/wiki/Morrowind:Classes

    https://en.uesp.net/wiki/Oblivion:Classes

    Skyrim actually went backwards in this respect with their implementation of perks - with limited perk points - at least at launch.

    However among the most popular mods were those which added unlimited perk points so eventually the devs patched in a base game way to get more.

    The point was, someone said basically they were the worst thing.

    They had them. They were bad, and you weren't locked out of stuff, but they had them, and they weren't the worst thing.

    That said, we don't have the same setup for it here to the same degree. You can use any weapon you want for any class you want, same with armor. The only thing "locked" is spells and spell like abilities.

    And the reason they did this was most likely because a) Every MMO does this for the most part and b) making it a free and open TES sandbox would be living hell on the balance team.
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  • Nerouyn
    Nerouyn
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    Sakiri wrote: »
    The point was, someone said basically they were the worst thing.

    Nothing in what you said amounted to that.

    And the "someone" you replied to was me who didn't say what you're now saying I said.

    I would say it now though. ESO should absolutely be classless.
    Sakiri wrote: »
    They had them. They were bad, and you weren't locked out of stuff, but they had them, and they weren't the worst thing.

    That said, we don't have the same setup for it here to the same degree. You can use any weapon you want for any class you want, same with armor. The only thing "locked" is spells and spell like abilities.

    By "only" you mean the vast majority of the game's magic.

    3 skill lines x 5 abilities x 7 not-you classes = 105 "magic" styled abilities you can't use on any given character.

    Compared to 15 + 5 (dest staff) + 5 (resto staff) + 10 (mage + psiijic) + maybe 5 if you go vamp.

    The addition of scribing will be nice but the game would be much better if they just threw away classes.
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  • Sakiri
    Sakiri
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    Nerouyn wrote: »
    Sakiri wrote: »
    The point was, someone said basically they were the worst thing.

    Nothing in what you said amounted to that.

    And the "someone" you replied to was me who didn't say what you're now saying I said.

    I would say it now though. ESO should absolutely be classless.
    Sakiri wrote: »
    They had them. They were bad, and you weren't locked out of stuff, but they had them, and they weren't the worst thing.

    That said, we don't have the same setup for it here to the same degree. You can use any weapon you want for any class you want, same with armor. The only thing "locked" is spells and spell like abilities.

    By "only" you mean the vast majority of the game's magic.

    3 skill lines x 5 abilities x 7 not-you classes = 105 "magic" styled abilities you can't use on any given character.

    Compared to 15 + 5 (dest staff) + 5 (resto staff) + 10 (mage + psiijic) + maybe 5 if you go vamp.

    The addition of scribing will be nice but the game would be much better if they just threw away classes.

    They're not going to throw away classes.

    The balance issues would be astronomical.

    If you think trial dps setups are boring af now with all arcanists, just wait til the entire raid is using the exact same setup because it's mathematically the best.

    You hate hybridization and homogeneity? That's how you get it.
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  • ADarklore
    ADarklore
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    Well, IMO I think hybridization was the best thing added to the game and has definitely increased my enjoyment of the game.
    CP: 1965 ** ESO+ Gold Road ** ~~ Stamina Arcanist ~~ Magicka Warden ~~ Magicka Templar ~~ ***** Strictly a solo PvE quester *****
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  • Nerouyn
    Nerouyn
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    Sakiri wrote: »
    They're not going to throw away classes.

    I wouldn't bet on it either way but anything's possible.
    Sakiri wrote: »
    You hate hybridization and homogeneity? That's how you get it.

    Again, you disagreeing with things I haven't said.

    I like variety and freedom of character development which ESO is sadly lacking in.

    If at some point another game comes along which offers better in that department and the other things I like in online games, I'll probably shuffle along to that.
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  • Lexalious
    Lexalious
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    i agree with everything about this thread. Hybridization, been several years, still is not even half way done. they made some changes to set and ability scaling and said "Eh. Good enough." this is not how you be a developer. but what can you expect from a company that only cares about what bring them more money.
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