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Hybridization Ruined Every Aspect of the Game for Me

  • Warhawke_80
    Warhawke_80
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    Hybridization was one of the best choices they have made for the game and I am glad it is here to stay :)

    Yeah mark me down as pro Hybridization as well, honestly if I had my way they would just kill the Classes and move to a True TES style of Open ended combat styles...I mean lets face it these days the Trinity is a joke that fewer and fewer people participate in.

    You can tell if the devs had a do over there would be no classes.
    ““Elric knew. The sword told him, without words of any sort. Stormbringer needed to fight, for that was its reason for existence...”― Michael Moorcock, Elric of Melniboné
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  • Elsonso
    Elsonso
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    Stamicka wrote: »
    At this point I think it is safe to say that hybridization was a bad idea.

    Is wasn't a bad idea. It allowed variation in this game to be closer to Elder Scrolls.

    It was a change which I truly love. Mainly because I don't have to carry staff while having magicka based builds. I can mix medium & light armour for better utilities. Abilities are based on highest stat/resource allowing classes like Templar to utilize their whole skill set not half of them. It also allowed Stamina sorcerers access to the powerful magicka based skills that were underused.
    Look at Dragonknights right now. They can go full Fire even if having WP/Stamina as primary and not have to worry about resources. Similarly a Magicka DK can go full poison if wishes to do so.

    Look at a stam Warden, which now can use 1/3 of the skill set that was off. How about stamina Necromancers?

    Have you forgotten that many of the existing classes were forced to weapon skills for primary damage because their good class skills were on different Damage type than their build?

    I say hybridization brought freedom of choice and variety in the game as a true Elder Scrolls game should.

    What ZOS has been working on is pretty much turning the game into vanilla pudding. Yes, we may decorate it with different things and talk about how "flexible" it is, but when you dig down, it is just vanilla.

    Homogenization is when it does not really matter what attributes the player picks, the game adapts to it. Hybrid means that it does matter what the player picks for attributes, and the game has build paths that can be used to support it.

    Homogenization is super flexible, but loses definition. At the extreme, it is basically just cosmetic. Want fire? Here you go. Ice? Not a problem. Want to use that class skill that was previously blocked off? We have what you need, go for it. Vanilla pudding with your choice of toppings.

    Hybridization, on the other hand, is when the player wants to use Stamina and Magicka, and it matters. The game offers selection of attribute-specific skills that they can select. Mix and match, without penalties, other than running out of "fuel" to power the skills.

    As a hybrid, if I want to use a Magicka skill, I invest in the skill and put points into Magicka. If I want to use a Stamina skill, as well, I invest in that skill and put points into Stamina. I design my sets by looking for sets that meet my needs for Stamina and Magicka, as well as what other buffs or abilities that are offered by the sets. The sets can by hybrid, meaning that they impact multiple attributes, but are not homogeneous, meaning that they impact specific attributes, not any attribute. That is hybrid.

    If ZOS were really serious and motivated about hybridization, rather than homogenization, they would eliminate attribute-based buffs (ie "scales off..." and "whichever is attribute is higher..." buffs). These buffs drive the "all in" attribute selections, which are antithetical to hybrid builds.

    They would rework class skills to eliminate "morphs" and make dedicated skill lines for Stamina that players could choose from Day 1. This encourages hybrid because players can start as Stamina, Magicka, or both.

    Hybrid, without penalty, and the freedom to pick from Stamina or Magicka skills. :heart:
    Edited by Elsonso on April 1, 2024 2:37PM
    PC NA/EU: @Elsonso
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  • gariondavey
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    Largely agree with you, stamicka.
    It would be nice if mag builds had a good rapid regen like skill so they don't have to use vigor.
    It would be nice if they finished the potions and buffs changes that are obviously incomplete.

    I will say that I have a bosmer stamplar as a main character, and on some builds I have 2-3 stam abilities (lol) but one of those is jabs. I have an alt dunmer templar, and play that with a mag spammable (force pulse). They still feel fairly distinct with different spammables, but most of the other skills are the same. The gear is even the same lol. If I had made my main character the dunmer from the start, I would have had the freedom to just have 1 character instead of 2, lol.
    PC NA @gariondavey, BG, IC & Cyrodiil Focused Since October 2017 Stamplar (main), Magplar, Magsorc, Stamsorc, StamDK, MagDK, Stamblade, Magblade, Magden, Stamden
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  • Urzigurumash
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    Sakiri wrote: »
    Sakiri wrote: »
    SO basically make me run all weapon skills again and ignore my class abilities.

    No thanks.

    Why are you Stam then

    What even do we call this idea of Stamina magic

    Maybe.. Stamicka?

    Because it's an option, and it's fun?

    No class should have to ignore class abilities.

    Why am I carrying this heavy maul when I don't even need to use it to deal damage
    Xbox NA AD / Day 1 ScrubDK / Wood Orc Cuisine Enthusiast
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  • Elsonso
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    Sakiri wrote: »
    Sakiri wrote: »
    SO basically make me run all weapon skills again and ignore my class abilities.

    No thanks.

    Why are you Stam then

    What even do we call this idea of Stamina magic

    Maybe.. Stamicka?

    Because it's an option, and it's fun?

    No class should have to ignore class abilities.

    Why am I carrying this heavy maul when I don't even need to use it to deal damage

    Weight does not matter in this game. A feather weighs as much as a maul. :smile:
    PC NA/EU: @Elsonso
    XBox EU/NA: @ElsonsoJannus
    X/Twitter: ElsonsoJannus
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  • Sakiri
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    Sakiri wrote: »
    Sakiri wrote: »
    SO basically make me run all weapon skills again and ignore my class abilities.

    No thanks.

    Why are you Stam then

    What even do we call this idea of Stamina magic

    Maybe.. Stamicka?

    Because it's an option, and it's fun?

    No class should have to ignore class abilities.

    Why am I carrying this heavy maul when I don't even need to use it to deal damage

    Then why pick a class if you're only going to use weapon abilities?

    you're not going to change my mind, btw.
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  • CGPsaint
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    Comment deleted as my views and opinions are not relevant to ZoS.
    Edited by CGPsaint on April 19, 2024 12:39AM
    "Some enjoy bringing grief to others. They remind M'aiq of mudcrabs—horrible creatures, with no redeeming qualities."
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  • Elrond87
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    not a fan of it ethier, light armor is baiscly only for healers, at this point why is there even a weapon and spell damage may as well be just damage
    PC|EU
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  • Skullstachio
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    For Warden, it's obvious to me it should have a similar "pet" vs "no pet" playstyle introduced like Sorc. Wardens have expressed for a long time that they hate being forced to rely on Bear for dps. It's also a huge problem because you can't simply nerf bear without making warden worse than it already is. Lastly, stam Warden identity is non existent with many of the improvements for frost that have overtaken the class. Easy solution: Add a passive for bleed status effects, reduce bear damage by -30% but then add +30% pet damage done to stam flies, improve mag flies, introduce a pet vs no pet passive. This would be a good start.

    As a warden main myself: I would agree to disagree.
    Not all wardens use the bear for dps (except maybe the top 10% of tryhard endgamers and a somewhat average percentage within the 80% majority of average players simply enjoying the game.) but when they do, while some may not like using the bear (but are not forced to use the bear at their own volition.), others do like the bear.
    And if someone is "feeling" forced to use the bear for dps, look at yourself and think about who is trying to project such a mentality on your soul. Because only you (the reader/player) can choose whether you wish to use the bear or not, as long as you are having fun playing the game.

    me for example, I actually like using the bear, not just for DPS reasons, but because there is nothing more fun and satisfying amidst the game than travelling nirn with a fuzzy friend who is good at giving bear hugs.
    (Also your "solution" is just terrible, even on paper. The bears damage already got an indirect nerf through the status effect changes and unless built with "enhanced status chance" in mind, the bears hemorrhaging status effects will deal less damage on the low end. With status chance built properly like using a charged weapon for 265%, destro staff passive for 100% and the CP passive for 60%, the status damage remains identical to slightly greater before U41, slightly greater status chance for the charged trait if using HC or for greater status duration, serpents disdain.)
    I know what you di-Iddly did... (you would be wise not to do that again during a time when Suspicion in the gaming space is at an all time high.)
    by not actually revealing real drop tables in the game for all items, you only prove what has been proven with proof of concept that you can/will manipulate item drop chances based on certain elements performed by the player.
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  • MashmalloMan
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    For Warden, it's obvious to me it should have a similar "pet" vs "no pet" playstyle introduced like Sorc. Wardens have expressed for a long time that they hate being forced to rely on Bear for dps. It's also a huge problem because you can't simply nerf bear without making warden worse than it already is. Lastly, stam Warden identity is non existent with many of the improvements for frost that have overtaken the class. Easy solution: Add a passive for bleed status effects, reduce bear damage by -30% but then add +30% pet damage done to stam flies, improve mag flies, introduce a pet vs no pet passive. This would be a good start.

    As a warden main myself: I would agree to disagree.
    Not all wardens use the bear for dps (except maybe the top 10% of tryhard endgamers and a somewhat average percentage within the 80% majority of average players simply enjoying the game.) but when they do, while some may not like using the bear (but are not forced to use the bear at their own volition.), others do like the bear.
    And if someone is "feeling" forced to use the bear for dps, look at yourself and think about who is trying to project such a mentality on your soul. Because only you (the reader/player) can choose whether you wish to use the bear or not, as long as you are having fun playing the game.

    me for example, I actually like using the bear, not just for DPS reasons, but because there is nothing more fun and satisfying amidst the game than travelling nirn with a fuzzy friend who is good at giving bear hugs.
    (Also your "solution" is just terrible, even on paper. The bears damage already got an indirect nerf through the status effect changes and unless built with "enhanced status chance" in mind, the bears hemorrhaging status effects will deal less damage on the low end. With status chance built properly like using a charged weapon for 265%, destro staff passive for 100% and the CP passive for 60%, the status damage remains identical to slightly greater before U41, slightly greater status chance for the charged trait if using HC or for greater status duration, serpents disdain.)

    First, when you sacrifice 10-20% of your dps by not running a specific skill, let alone a pet ultimate that requires double barring it, then yes, the majority of players feel "forced" to use it to remain competitive. I don't hate the bear either, but it'd be nice to have better options. You can argue semantics all you like over the term "forced", but bear is way too powerful right now, overshadowing any other ultimate you slot, probably any other ultimate in the game, however it's necessary to keep Warden's competitive. The saddest part is, in content where you can't use bear effectively like pvp, Warden feels underwhelming in comparison to other classes where their best damage skills transition well from pve. Eg. Dragonknights, they can mostly use all the same skills in all content of the game, so their skill ceiling is basically the same no matter what they do.

    Not using bear is like an Arcanist not using Beam.

    Can you do it? Yeah, play however you want.

    Is it worth it? No, Beam does way too much.

    Secondly, I'm not sure why you dug into the numbers as much as you did, the -30%/+30% wasn't mathematically decided as the sweet spot, my point was to shift the bears power to a buff skill like Sorc, so you can make decisions within the class in terms of the playstyle you want to play as. You want bear like before, great option A exists, you want no bear, great, option B exists. They should both be competitive. Right now there is 0 choice for Warden, not using bear is shooting yourself in the foot. All Warden's play the same which is why this discussion of hybridization harming the game is even a topic that is currently being discussed here. If playstyle choices were a thing, it wouldn't feel so 1 dimensional which was the entire reason of my original comment which you nitpicked 2 things out of.

    I'm sure @ESO_Nightingale could explain this better than I could. Patch after patch they try to make Northern Storm work, and patch after patch it deals comparatively much less dps than bear, thus it's not worth it outside pvp where bear doesn't work anyway. There is only so far you can buff other ultimate's before you have to look at the root of the issue.
    Edited by MashmalloMan on April 1, 2024 10:15PM
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    Stam Sorc Khajiit PvE/PVP Main || Stam Sorc Dark Elf PvP ||
    Stam Templar Dark Elf || Stam Warden Wood Elf || Stam DK Nord || Stam Necro Orc || Stam Blade Khajiit


    Mag Sorc High Elf || Mag Templar High Elf || Mag Warden Breton || Mag Necro Khajiit || Mag Blade Khajiit
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  • Skullstachio
    Skullstachio
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    For Warden, it's obvious to me it should have a similar "pet" vs "no pet" playstyle introduced like Sorc. Wardens have expressed for a long time that they hate being forced to rely on Bear for dps. It's also a huge problem because you can't simply nerf bear without making warden worse than it already is. Lastly, stam Warden identity is non existent with many of the improvements for frost that have overtaken the class. Easy solution: Add a passive for bleed status effects, reduce bear damage by -30% but then add +30% pet damage done to stam flies, improve mag flies, introduce a pet vs no pet passive. This would be a good start.

    As a warden main myself: I would agree to disagree.
    Not all wardens use the bear for dps (except maybe the top 10% of tryhard endgamers and a somewhat average percentage within the 80% majority of average players simply enjoying the game.) but when they do, while some may not like using the bear (but are not forced to use the bear at their own volition.), others do like the bear.
    And if someone is "feeling" forced to use the bear for dps, look at yourself and think about who is trying to project such a mentality on your soul. Because only you (the reader/player) can choose whether you wish to use the bear or not, as long as you are having fun playing the game.

    me for example, I actually like using the bear, not just for DPS reasons, but because there is nothing more fun and satisfying amidst the game than travelling nirn with a fuzzy friend who is good at giving bear hugs.
    (Also your "solution" is just terrible, even on paper. The bears damage already got an indirect nerf through the status effect changes and unless built with "enhanced status chance" in mind, the bears hemorrhaging status effects will deal less damage on the low end. With status chance built properly like using a charged weapon for 265%, destro staff passive for 100% and the CP passive for 60%, the status damage remains identical to slightly greater before U41, slightly greater status chance for the charged trait if using HC or for greater status duration, serpents disdain.)

    First, when you sacrifice 10-20% of your dps by not running a specific skill, let alone a pet ultimate that requires double barring it, then yes, the majority of players feel "forced" to use it to remain competitive. I don't hate the bear either, but it'd be nice to have better options. You can argue semantics all you like over the term "forced", but bear is way too powerful right now, overshadowing any other ultimate you slot, probably any other ultimate in the game, however it's necessary to keep Warden's competitive. The saddest part is, in content where you can't use bear effectively like pvp, Warden feels underwhelming in comparison to other classes where their best damage skills transition well from pve. Eg. Dragonknights, they can mostly use all the same skills in all content of the game, so their skill ceiling is basically the same no matter what they do.

    Not using bear is like an Arcanist not using Beam.

    Can you do it? Yeah, play however you want.

    Is it worth it? No, Beam does way too much.

    Secondly, I'm not sure why you dug into the numbers as much as you did, the -30%/+30% wasn't mathematically decided as the sweet spot, my point was to shift the bears power to a buff skill like Sorc, so you can make decisions within the class in terms of the playstyle you want to play as. You want bear like before, great option A exists, you want no bear, great, option B exists. They should both be competitive. Right now there is 0 choice for Warden, not using bear is shooting yourself in the foot. All Warden's play the same which is why this discussion of hybridization harming the game is even a topic that is currently being discussed here. If playstyle choices were a thing, it wouldn't feel so 1 dimensional which was the entire reason of my original comment which you nitpicked 2 things out of.

    I'm sure @ESO_Nightingale could explain this better than I could. Patch after patch they try to make Northern Storm work, and patch after patch it deals comparatively much less dps than bear, thus it's not worth it outside pvp where bear doesn't work anyway. There is only so far you can buff other ultimate's before you have to look at the root of the issue.
    1. I do agree on there needing to be better options, but when mentioning the sacrifice of dps, kind of proves the point about its use in endgame and why other skills need a slight tune up. And while I agree that it is powerful, is it not what an "Ultimate ability" should be, let alone something that other ultimate abilities could aspire to be?
    2. Shifting the power of a skill from one to another is a funky one as there was an old post about a different ability that involved nerfs, buffs, etc. but the context of it was that if something got nerfed for a set percentage, that it would require more in the buff elsewhere than the amount nerfed. As an example using the 30% example (I do get that isn't the perfect spot).
      Lets say for example the bear at base did 1000 damage to its target every 2 seconds, nerfing it by 30% would bring it down to 700, but then buffing it through a different skill like what you suggested, by 30% would only bring it up to 910 on its own which is 90 less damage on the low end than its original value before the nerf (and not counting the fetcherflies minor vulnerability) and doing it back and forth every patch would arbitrarily shaft the damage further and further. The point here though is that when nerfing something to redirect an overpowered skills damage into something else that rebuffs the damage, the rebuff would need to be bigger than the nerf, in this case, one would need the buff to be rounded up close to 43% to bring the pet damage back up to 1000. (1000 - 30% = 700) then (700 + 43%* = 1001) (*rounded up to match its original pre-nerfed value but needs tuning with complexity.)
      P.S. the numbers thing is partly a me thing as I like a good puzzle as much as anyone on the side.
    3. Which beam do you refer to when comparing it to the bear? Because if your comparing wild guardian to the arcanists fatecarver ability, that is a "somewhat" bad comparison since it would be comparing an ultimate ability to an active ability and quite a bad analogy. If comparing it to the arcanists unblinking eye ultimate ability, that is more understandable of which I would say that while the direct damage of the wild guardian is powerful since it is direct burst damage (the guardians wrath/savagery ultimate) in comparison, the arcanists unblinking eye however has greater sustained damage that is close to being burst damage, and especially if coupled together in the same breath as fatecarver/morphs.
      At the same time, I do see a point and a part of it could be alluded to either the bear slam which can be easily avoided by moving, or the cheap ulti cost of guardians savagery, bringing up the ulti cost would be wiser since it is direct damage that deals more to targets with less than 25% health that hits just as hard without the bonus execute damage.
    4. To be fair, There wasn't even a single thought of nitpicking as I was writing this, because I do care about the warden class even if it is flawed and while what I think about may not be perfect, it does help to piece the bigger picture together whatever it may be.
    5. I am sure Nightingale can explain it better than the both of us, if not than any warden in the room.
    I know what you di-Iddly did... (you would be wise not to do that again during a time when Suspicion in the gaming space is at an all time high.)
    by not actually revealing real drop tables in the game for all items, you only prove what has been proven with proof of concept that you can/will manipulate item drop chances based on certain elements performed by the player.
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  • StarOfElyon
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    PvE solo here. I love hybridization and it has made things more fun and creative for me. :)

    You could do everything you do now before. There was nothing stopping you. I was playing hybrids before "hybridization" started.
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  • ForumBully
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    I would rather ZOS had made the effort to make both Magicka and Stamina flavors functional, but they didn't. They instead opted to make them one, and to do so half-heartedly and never actually finish the job.
    We still have skills that are of no use to anyone in any situation and we still have the remnants of the the time before hybridization and probably always will.

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  • PrincessOfThieves
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    Hybridization was one of their worst ideas in my opinion.
    They could've just made it so that some class skills scale off your highest stat but that's it.
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  • GuuMoonRyoung
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    Hybridization is the right idea but it is currently half baked. ZOS has a lot left to do on this.
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  • ItsNotLiving
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    Hybridization is the right idea but it is currently half baked. ZOS has a lot left to do on this.

    The problem is they won’t and they won’t change sets that do the exact same thing just in medium or light weights either.
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  • React
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    Agree that hybridization did far more bad than good.

    For me, it effectively halved the number of classes in the game. There used to be stamina and magicka variants of every class that played distinctly differently, and required different builds to function well. Now in PVP, if you don't take the optimal skill/weapon/gear choices which inevitably causes you to be a hybrid, you're at a disadvantage - but by taking these things, you're playing a homogenized setup that is often identical to what the majority of other people are using.

    It's also unfinished. There are several things like class passives and potions which are not hybridized, and serve as nothing but awkward limitations to your build options. They never made a pass afterwards to balance the lesser used abilities, and we're left with a ton of skills which are never slotted and are essentially "dead content".

    Finally, it simply created a plethora of balance issues in PVP that have never (and probably will never) be addressed. Everyone has access to the best burst heal possible for their build, the best HOT possible for their build, and the best morphs of every ability. Max stats no longer matter as much as regen does, and because of these two things we're left with most classes having builds that are tanks, healers, and damage dealers all in one. Nobody needs to sacrifice much, if anything, to have the best of everything. Ball groups run 40-50k HP on everybody and get to slot echoing vigor on 12 people regardless of whether they're "stamina builds" which, coupled with a few other factors, makes them nearly untouchable.

    I'm sure it's great for casual players in PVM, as is the sentiment expressed here. That's fine and I'm happy for them, but I wish that zenimax would take the time to address the problems this change has caused/is causing in PVP.
    Edited by React on April 2, 2024 3:42PM
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  • Urzigurumash
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    Subject Mag and Stam Regen to the same Battlespirit Pealty as Health Regen, or something like that - even increase Vampire Cost Penalty through Battlespirit.

    Maybe if every Brawler spec were forced to start speccing into loads of Regen (remember how long Bone Pirate was meta) then players would have to start making more of a choice between Mag and Stam skills.

    That's the only global move I can easily think of that has some logical precedent. Would make tons of other problems and might need an extension of CC immunity or something.
    Edited by Urzigurumash on April 2, 2024 3:58PM
    Xbox NA AD / Day 1 ScrubDK / Wood Orc Cuisine Enthusiast
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  • Crow_IX
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    It definitely ruined the game further. There are several other aspects that ruined the game. In my personal experience, after the addition of cast times, abilities have seemed very buggy i.e. delayed damage, stuck in animation, or no damage/skill activation while taking your resource for the applied skill. Is it directly related? Well, I can't say as last time I tied the two together my post got taken down, but skills seem way more buggy since then. The constant additions of damage proc sets makes the game very hard to enjoy as they've just added multiple resources of almost unavoidable high burst damage. The slaughter of solo play has been the biggest killer for me as I've mainly played PvP solo and there is almost nothing I can do while getting zerged down. I'd have to ride the outskirts of the zerg until i get overwhelmed to the point I'd have to run into the zerg, might as well be apart of it at that point. The game has lost it's sense of mechanical skill and enjoyment of the combat system that was once fun and unique.

    It is actually so unfortunate to see a once great game fall so hard and it feels almost pointless for PvPers to say anything about it as we've always been ignored. I want to say I hope things change but its been too long now.
    RIP skill based PvP days. . .
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  • Necrotech_Master
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    i was running hybrid builds before hybridization lol, now they just work better lol
    plays PC/NA
    handle @Necrotech_Master
    active player since april 2014
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  • Sakiri
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    They're fine.
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  • Pelanora
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    TaSheen wrote: »
    I like it personally MUCH better than the way it was before. I've always played hybrids - at least now it's somewhat more flexible to do so.

    I really disliked the "choose only stam or mag" setup. Then again, I don't really like combat at all anyway. THAT is what's not fun in this game.

    Combat is pretty boring in this game, so few skills actually do anything visually interesting to the npc.
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  • Crow_IX
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    i was running hybrid builds before hybridization lol, now they just work better lol

    running hybrid by choice and being forced into it are two different things. and it may work for you but it terms of balancing and game mechanics, it is a terrible choice for the game to force it on players.
    RIP skill based PvP days. . .
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  • CoronHR
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    i don't like hybridization either. but i sort of don't participate in it. i use light armour for mages and med armour for warriors. the only exception is pillar of nirn, because it's quite good. so, i think you can still mix and match and have variety if you try, but if you're talking about what's the best set to use, then you see a lot of repetition across classes and play styles, and this is not ideal ... it's boring. i don't see zos reverting back to the way it was, so i'm not sure how to solve this, except to explore variety on your own and ignore min/maxing
    PC - EU - Steam client
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  • amig186
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    I feel differently, thanks to hybridisation i was able to use deadly strikes on my magicka templar for example, or plaguebreak on a mag necro (not usable anymore but that's another story). Also, many of the older sets came in magicka and stamina flavours while being otherwise identical, like leviathan and medusa before the change, which was a waste of space when you can have one for both. If it makes things boring for minmaxers, then you have my sympathies.
    PC EU
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  • Necrotech_Master
    Necrotech_Master
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    Crow_IX wrote: »
    i was running hybrid builds before hybridization lol, now they just work better lol

    running hybrid by choice and being forced into it are two different things. and it may work for you but it terms of balancing and game mechanics, it is a terrible choice for the game to force it on players.

    nobody is forced into it

    i also still have a lot of characters which are very very heavily mag or stam focused, in a lot of cases i was using a mag skill to get extra healing on a stam character, because as noted, pre hybridization vigor was the only stam heal, and i wanted to supplement that with another skill

    so on my stamplar i was using the cleansing ritual (and still am), except the healing values from it are just better

    ive literally never followed build guides or metas in this game as long as ive been playing (got vateshran trifecta on a custom build for a mag dk, something like pale order ring + blackrose destro front bar, maelstrom destro back bar, auroran, and a monster set (i think zaan at the time) )
    plays PC/NA
    handle @Necrotech_Master
    active player since april 2014
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  • StarOfElyon
    StarOfElyon
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    Crow_IX wrote: »
    It definitely ruined the game further. There are several other aspects that ruined the game. In my personal experience, after the addition of cast times, abilities have seemed very buggy i.e. delayed damage, stuck in animation, or no damage/skill activation while taking your resource for the applied skill. Is it directly related? Well, I can't say as last time I tied the two together my post got taken down, but skills seem way more buggy since then. The constant additions of damage proc sets makes the game very hard to enjoy as they've just added multiple resources of almost unavoidable high burst damage. The slaughter of solo play has been the biggest killer for me as I've mainly played PvP solo and there is almost nothing I can do while getting zerged down. I'd have to ride the outskirts of the zerg until i get overwhelmed to the point I'd have to run into the zerg, might as well be apart of it at that point. The game has lost it's sense of mechanical skill and enjoyment of the combat system that was once fun and unique.

    It is actually so unfortunate to see a once great game fall so hard and it feels almost pointless for PvPers to say anything about it as we've always been ignored. I want to say I hope things change but its been too long now.

    30k health feels like nothing these days.
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  • Urzigurumash
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    Sakiri wrote: »
    Sakiri wrote: »
    Sakiri wrote: »
    SO basically make me run all weapon skills again and ignore my class abilities.

    No thanks.

    Why are you Stam then

    What even do we call this idea of Stamina magic

    Maybe.. Stamicka?

    Because it's an option, and it's fun?

    No class should have to ignore class abilities.

    Why am I carrying this heavy maul when I don't even need to use it to deal damage

    Then why pick a class if you're only going to use weapon abilities?

    you're not going to change my mind, btw.

    Why do Weapon Abilities exist?

    Change my mind @Sakiri , why did StamDK need Whip when it had D Swing?

    Ps. Don't take this question personally. We had lots of discussions during the "Stam Whip Fever" Era which preceded this holistic hybridization about Form vs Function and class identity. The above question persists from that time - and all of the answers then were Mechanical, nobody has yet offered a compelling Thematic reason that I can recall.
    Edited by Urzigurumash on April 3, 2024 6:40PM
    Xbox NA AD / Day 1 ScrubDK / Wood Orc Cuisine Enthusiast
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  • Crow_IX
    Crow_IX
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    Crow_IX wrote: »
    i was running hybrid builds before hybridization lol, now they just work better lol

    running hybrid by choice and being forced into it are two different things. and it may work for you but it terms of balancing and game mechanics, it is a terrible choice for the game to force it on players.

    nobody is forced into it

    i also still have a lot of characters which are very very heavily mag or stam focused, in a lot of cases i was using a mag skill to get extra healing on a stam character, because as noted, pre hybridization vigor was the only stam heal, and i wanted to supplement that with another skill

    so on my stamplar i was using the cleansing ritual (and still am), except the healing values from it are just better

    ive literally never followed build guides or metas in this game as long as ive been playing (got vateshran trifecta on a custom build for a mag dk, something like pale order ring + blackrose destro front bar, maelstrom destro back bar, auroran, and a monster set (i think zaan at the time) )

    firstly, rally was also a stam heal and certain classes had their own abilities, i.e. templars had repentance, sorc had dark conversion. then running some of the mag heals was still effective enough like dark cloak.

    secondly, i would consider the use of said mythics part of the meta. I cant imagine your builds are too different from basic meta builds.

    lastly, if you're using things like zaans, i'd consider you part of the problem. the abuse of higher damage proc sets have become the norm because its easy. almost no proc requirements for such high and consistent damage take much away from actual combat mechanics. and people feel they need damage procs because of how tanky most players are. its a terrible cycle.

    I don't see how we aren't forced into hybrid building as the skills have been reworked to be "stamina and magika" or "weapon and spell" which greatly altered the meta in such a worse way as it even further enabled tanking when it was already an issue which in turn also increased the players "need" to run damage proc builds which finally in turn almost renders non meta builds obsolete since survival otherwise is a real challenge, especially in 1vX scenarios.
    RIP skill based PvP days. . .
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  • Necrotech_Master
    Necrotech_Master
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    Crow_IX wrote: »
    Crow_IX wrote: »
    i was running hybrid builds before hybridization lol, now they just work better lol

    running hybrid by choice and being forced into it are two different things. and it may work for you but it terms of balancing and game mechanics, it is a terrible choice for the game to force it on players.

    nobody is forced into it

    i also still have a lot of characters which are very very heavily mag or stam focused, in a lot of cases i was using a mag skill to get extra healing on a stam character, because as noted, pre hybridization vigor was the only stam heal, and i wanted to supplement that with another skill

    so on my stamplar i was using the cleansing ritual (and still am), except the healing values from it are just better

    ive literally never followed build guides or metas in this game as long as ive been playing (got vateshran trifecta on a custom build for a mag dk, something like pale order ring + blackrose destro front bar, maelstrom destro back bar, auroran, and a monster set (i think zaan at the time) )

    firstly, rally was also a stam heal and certain classes had their own abilities, i.e. templars had repentance, sorc had dark conversion. then running some of the mag heals was still effective enough like dark cloak.

    secondly, i would consider the use of said mythics part of the meta. I cant imagine your builds are too different from basic meta builds.

    lastly, if you're using things like zaans, i'd consider you part of the problem. the abuse of higher damage proc sets have become the norm because its easy. almost no proc requirements for such high and consistent damage take much away from actual combat mechanics. and people feel they need damage procs because of how tanky most players are. its a terrible cycle.

    I don't see how we aren't forced into hybrid building as the skills have been reworked to be "stamina and magika" or "weapon and spell" which greatly altered the meta in such a worse way as it even further enabled tanking when it was already an issue which in turn also increased the players "need" to run damage proc builds which finally in turn almost renders non meta builds obsolete since survival otherwise is a real challenge, especially in 1vX scenarios.

    rally in my opinion is a terrible heal, if you spam it, the heal value is insanely low, not even 1/5 of most burst heals and takes 20 seconds to reach that of other burst heals, not really "on demand", vigor being a HOT is slightly more on demand than rally

    not all of my characters use mythics, in this case, the character was built to use a mythic (at the time it was primarily death dealers fete, but i needed the extra healing so i swapped to pale order ring), i chose to use the tools i have in game, not because they were considered meta

    i was using zaans when i did that (probably at least 4 years ago now at this point, would have to verify with my achievement date), but i feel like that set has gotten hugely nerfed in recent time so i havent used it in awhile

    some of the builds probably are closer to what is considered meta (i think my velothi + deadly + perfected yandir with slimecraw head arcanist is the most "meta" thing i have), theres probably going to be overlap because the amount of "decent" sets in the game compared to all of the sets in the game is pretty slim pickings but i do try to make different themed builds work (that same mag dk i completed the spirit slayer on is using a completely different build now which is like skoria + azureblight + runecarvers blaze with no mythic and total focus on dots)
    plays PC/NA
    handle @Necrotech_Master
    active player since april 2014
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