Not to mention perma block builds all you need is a constant stream of healing and you can just sit around spamming siphon since it has no cast time it won't drop block and you can refresh your stamina pool indefinitely long as you have the incoming healing slap on cutting defense for the passive bonuses to consistently proc

Rebiludo wrote: »

J18696 wrote: »

Not to mention perma block builds all you need is a constant stream of healing and you can just sit around spamming siphon since it has no cast time it won't drop block and you can refresh your stamina pool indefinitely long as you have the incoming healing slap on cutting defense for the passive bonuses to consistently proc

Permabloc is already possible with spell symmetry & frost staff (or Stormweaver's Cavort)

sure you could but this will not require you to debuff your own healing/shields or have any set investment at all

The weirdest part is the closest skills to it don't even come close.

Betty Netch doesn't cost resources, but costs a GCD. It gets 4416 stamina over 25s which should be 26 ticks at roughly 170 each second... This doesn't provide 1250 heals per second, a measly 1 purge every 5s and the most common buff, major brutality doesn't begin to balance it out in comparison. NB gets major prophecy/savagery passively, no buff management.

Channeled Focus, also 25s duration, costs 1k magicka, instant cast, 1 GCD. Gives back 242 magicka a second, with the cost, it's about 204 magicka a second. Same thing for the stam morph when you do the math, about 204 stamina a second. Both have the most common armor buff, which again, NB gets for free passively for dealing damage with their spammable. It can heal, worse than Siphoning Strikes, but better when in the rune. Equal on that front at least.

Dark Deal and Dark Conversion are harder to compare because of the 1 second cast time which is easily punishable and infinitely worse than all instant cast skills.. the original benefit was to get instant resources with the counter being you could interrupt it. NB gets instant resources, with no cast time, just a health cost they can negate.

Dark Deal costs 2700 magicka, gives back 3600 stamina and 240 stamina a second over 10s. Dark Conversion costs 3240 stamina, gives back 4500 magicka and 120 magicka a second over 20s.Both don't have heal over times, they get 8-10k burst hp, however, again that is in counter to the fact that you spend 1 second cast time and can't block cast it.

I mean you start to see a pattern here.. these skills give back about 170-200 of your main resource back a second, but you need to actively manage this buff to get the resources in the first place, coupled with free healing. Siphoning Strikes is just passive and in the long run will give better resource return because the only thing that would force it to stop is if you don't have at least 1 dot on an enemy, many of which last 20-30 seconds now making it close to impossible.

ALL of this doesn't even focus on the fact that Siphoning Strikes gives back your main AND off resource for double the value of any other sustain skill in this list.

Here is how I would balance it:

• Keep the passive effect, it's cool, just not balanced right now.
• Reduce the overall value to better line up with the above sustain skills, but take into account the skill is passive 99% of the time and based on any damage dealt. Reduce the return from 200 to 150.
• Make sustain dependent on your highest resource, with the off resource getting cut in half. Eg. 150 stamina/s + 75 magicka/s.
• Reduce the upfront return a little bit and adopt the above mechanic for scaling. Siphoning Attack = On cast, 2200 stamina + 1100 magicka. For Leeching, same rule, 1600 stamina + 800 magicka.

Thats my 2cents. Idk. It really can't be overstated how valuable it is to have a skill that is passive 100% of the time, on either bar, with the only requirement to cast it be when you actually want to use it.

Every other class with sustain skills has to CONSTANTLY manage these or they get nothing back. Don't even get me started on how annoying it is to manage Dark Deals 10 second duration or I lose 240 stamina/s, minor force, and minor berserk. It's insane. I would give up so much of that to have it be passive or at minimum, 20s + and instant, easily.

I don't think it is that much out of proportion. The current version is just greatly favouring ranged weapons. You can time AW around your weaving, even if you miss gcds, but you can not make up for the sustain/healing lost on siphoning strikes. The skill can be hit or miss, as you can lose a considerable percentage of ticks while stunned or immobilized, or when being kited by faster players. These are all things ranged players don't have to deal with in the first place, ot at least not as much, so they do not need an additional advantage while using the classes main resource recovery skill.
I think this is a good change.

lnigo wrote: »

SkaraMinoc wrote: »

The change to Siphoning Strikes doesn't seem like it would be enough to sustain the cost of repeatedly bashing and using Power Slam.

I am determined to have you reconsider.

I'm open to trying it when I get the time to fix PTS addons. I can't get into my bank without crashing right now 🤣

I'm getting similar Vamp Dummy parses on the PTS for Bashblade and Sorc Bash. The damage is good.

SkaraMinoc wrote: »

DrNukenstein wrote: »

As it stands right now, an NB could spam offering, resolving vigor and siphoning attacks forever while holding block and spamming crouch.

Nightblade permablock could be interesting.

I mean we have seen permablock before but should it be this easily accessible I dont think it should siphon is really loaded atm

If that sounds OP shouldn't the blame be on the Bash Build themselves and not the NB skill.

Here's a crazy idea for how we could balance this. Maybe, stick with me here now, maybe we could have two morph, one for mag and one for stam - I know! I know it's all hybrid now but stick with me here. And then you could cast whichever moph you have and when the effect end you get a huge chunk of that resource back. Perhaps to sweeten the deal you could make it so that the longer the skill lasts the more resource you get back and then just give the skill a low initial cost. Any takers? Thoughts? Ideas? Discuss.

J18696 wrote: »

Can we acknowledge the fact this is just a sorc dark deal but passively always working and has no cast time trades the resource cost for health to gain both stats like kinda stupid loaded

One dev loves to take sorc skills make them significantly better and give them to his class.

1250 health + 200 mag stam every 1 second in combat "active on either bar" is broken. Forget actually casting the ability and taking the 4k health hit. There is no point to activating the skill, the passive effect is OP. No class has anything close.

10 ultimate every kill "active on either bar" is fantastic for pvp bombers. Broken for solo PVE.

My fav class to farm E/IA is nightblade, major/minor cowardice makes the content trivial, now add these two buffs. lol.

This new rework is blatantly overtuned, but I hope they don't nerf it, because I want to abuse it in pvp

Jammy420 wrote: »

Honestly, after reading the patch notes, this game, I do not even really recognize it anymore. Game just rewards laziness, and punishes skill at this point.

Funny 😅

Ok here a slightly more detailed post than my previous one:

With reave the current version already gives the same amount of main resource + 100 of the other. It also grants more healing (20% or so) . The pay off after 20s is basically paid for upon skill activation and you get roughly 3000 net resource, free of additional cost and fully backbarable.

The current version "rewards" high weaving efficiency, which is an absolute no brainer in PvE, but drastically easier for ranged weapons in PvP. You can basically not be outranged by "melee movement" and you are much less prone be impaired by CC. It is not impossible to LA decently in melee, but this is something that also depends on your enemy and your build, while the only thing ranged weapons have to fear is LOS (which screws melee without high movespeed too). This isn't a "skill issue", it is just a clear bias.

You do not only lose DPS or frequency of burst opportunities as in the case of AW if your LA rate is low with Siphoning Strikes, but you actively lose % value for each activation of the skill (paid for with a GCD and 1000 bux). There is no reason why the classes main sustain tool should be favoring a weapon type.

The new version is comfortable to use, comparable in value and if you want to get resources back you pay with enough HP to put the resource gain into perspective (except you weave with one morph, same as before). Losing the HP under battlespirit and healing back up with a burst heal will offer a small cost advantage, but you pay for it with 2 gcds, so why the hell wouldn't there be an advantage.

And in the end you still need dots or direct damage to hit something on cd every second, which is not even guaranteed with all stickies outside of procs having a 2s rate. Is your enemy chilling in your aoe dot? Granted, brainless spammable spammers will benefit from that, but who dies to these people.

It will also make it possible to actually use channels without throwing your siphoning gains out of the window.
Reave will be gone. So of course that sustain should be going somewhere.

Do people who are shocked by the values of the rework even know what the live version does?
Are you aware that skills should do something when they are slotted and/or used?