Vynera wrote: »

They think it's faster to skip everything, and the most annoying part is when they pull everything and just run through till they hit a door and then wait 5 minutes to get out of combat to use that door.

This ^ Especially in normal dungeons where it takes 2 sec to kill stuff, so it's not worth waiting by the door for everything to de-aggro, it's counterproductive. Generally, I find in a lot of cases the fastest way is to not skip stuff but make optimal mob pulls, for eg., there are corridors or areas in dungeons that have clusters of mobs nearby or have a single mob and then a bigger cluster, so it's not worth casting ground DOTs for a small pack and then having to redo it just a bit further ahead, it's better to pull the two clusters together.

furiouslog wrote: »

Neiska wrote: »

Come, gather around the campfire, while I share the events that occurred to me over the weekend.

I made the decision to cue for a random. Instant role check, loading screen. Oh! A new dungeon? Awesome! Lets have some fun! I explained it was my first time in this dungeon, and that I would like to do the quest. I was met with silence. Then the DPS speed off, swinging their DPS hammers as hard as they can, as fast as they can. First boss went down. Second boss went down. One boss wiped us. The DPS started to get angry, I explained that I didn't know the fight, and that I am also deaf. So if they could explain the fight that would be helpful, or they have to be patient.

The DPS then told me I wasn't important, that I didn't even matter. To just taunt the boss, and then they pulled again. Perhaps unsurprisingly, we wiped. So, I left group. That same DPS then sent me a whisper, using language that I will not repeat here.

I have not logged in since. And I am unsure I will do again. As I am convinced this is how ESO wants it. This is the community. Now, I do want to highlight that its not all people. Its not even most people. But it's enough people, to spoil the experience and enjoyment. So, if I do play again, I most certainly will not do randoms with people whom I do not know.

But I did not come just to complain, I do have possible ideas that might help, in the chance that someone who might be in a position to make a difference reads this.

1. Add more ways to get transmute crystals. I get it, people want to get their dailies done fast as possible. Their crafting writs. All of their daily dungeon bonuses, across multiple characters. They just want to do it as fast as possible. The problem with this is, is that the 10 crystal bonus, actually encourages and even rewards this behavior. Adding more ways to get crystals, and making all dungeon cues the same, will reduce the number of gogogogo vs first timer/quester issues.

2. It wont be popular, but it might help if they didn't group people with 1000-2000 CP or more with people who are still leveling up. If it were up to me, there would be 2 sub-groups of randoms - people who are below 160, and everyone else. Granted, this will increase waiting time. And people do have alt accounts, so a low cp person is by no means a way to help the issue. But its at least something.

3. As far as the "if you want to quest, make your own group!" argument, to that I say, that speeding it, is not the "Default" either. There is no "Default." The only default is that people work together. And I will say that the more difficult the content, the less inclined I was to do randoms. Now? I won't do them at all. I'm transmute capped, and I have a pile of geodes ready to click. I don't NEED the crystals. I barely used them anyway. I was doing dungeons to do quests, and get outfit styles. Thats pretty much it. I don't even need dungeon drops, as I am at the point I need trial drops now.

I have played many mmos. Everquest, Wow, Rift, Vanguard, City of Heroes, etc etc etc. And in my opinion ESO has both some of the best, and some of the worst, as far as communities go. Most people are really helpful and are awesome people. Others? Pretty much "mememememe, minemineminemine, iwantiwantiwantiwant, its all about ME!" And that is fine, you will get that anywhere you go. The problem is, again, just my opinion here, is that such activity seems to be encouraged, not discouraged, which to me is very counter productive. This is certainly one of the most hostile communities I have seen. Its kind of fascinating really, to have both extremes in the same community. But back on topic.

When I do decide to log in again, I will under no circumstances do a random with random people. And you can thank that random DPS person for that. Pretty much the straw that broke the camels back. And I used to purposefully cue for specific dungeons, just to help people get them done. I actually enjoy tanking, when I am allowed to tank. When people rush ahead at blazing speed, then there is no point in me being there. And apparently, according to some people, I don't matter, and I'm not important anyway. And I shall remember that any time I see someone I don't know asking for a tank. Doesn't matter what the activity is. Doesn't matter what the reward is. My answer is going to be no, at least until ESO at least addresses this and makes their official stance known, one way or another.

My two cents on the topic.

I don't agree that the game design promotes a selfish community attitude. I've played many MMOs too, and this has some super toxic people in it, and there are definitely toxic guilds, but it is by far, the least toxic community that I've been a part of in the last 20 years.

The solution to all of your problems is to join a social guild that curates and provides training for different kinds of content, and then get in Discord and coordinate your opportunities. Anyone who wants a friendlier experience in ESO has already done this, because they realize that the probability that you'll get a bad actor in a random grouping is much higher than getting a bad actor in a planned experience. If you only expose yourself to the most toxic players in the game (i.e. people who can't stay in a guild because they are just plain awful humans), then yes, I could see how you'd come away with a universally negative impression. But you have not explored all avenues in the game, as intended by its design, and until you do, your opinion is not really based on a complete set of data. Furthermore, you are overreacting to this situation. When tempers flare, put the other player on ignore and move on, this kind of ultimatum quit post will do absolutely nothing except invite unflattering comments on your emotional sensitivity.

Finally, it seems contradictory to complain about having other ways to get transmutes and then saying you have too many transmutes. It seems your solution is to get them without doing either dungeons or PVP. Why are you even playing the game in that case?

First, I would like to thank you for the tone of your response, it is appreciated.

I respect your experience and input about the community here, I just disagree with it. Your experience does not invalidate my own, any more than mine invalidate yours. Both can be equally accurate and true, after all. But, as an example, in no other game had someone commented on my handicap used in such a personally insulting manner, save for ESO. We do agree there are toxic people, and toxic guilds, both here and elsewhere. But I suspect our experiences differ. And, I would argue that is normal, to be expected in fact. But that does not make either one of our experiences wrong, or incorrect either.

Secondly, your suggestions are all good ones, but are also things I have already done. I am a member of 3 pve clans. We do share discord, and plan things. The issue for me is, is that often when not attending such scheduled things, I am on my own. And I have progressed as far as I am able to on my own. I have even skill capped side skills such as Assault, Vampire, Psyjic, Digging and scrying, and so on. So, to occupy my playtime, I was collecting achievements and outfits, as there are many outfits I would like to have, which I do not have yet. Hence, the random dungeons. As far as actual equipment goes, I am to the point all my upgrades come from trial content. So, with that in mind, I have explored all avenues.

But, I do believe you might have mis-read my previous post. It was not an "I quit" post, it was an "I'm taking a break, and if/when I do play again, I will not be using group finder, and here is why." Which to me, is a logical reaction. I subscribe to the mindset of "know the waters you swim in." To me, the group finder is simply too unenjoyable to be an option. Others feel differently, and that is fine. Both of us can enjoy our preferred activities without affecting one another. I was not saying "speedrunning is bad etc etc etc." I was simply elaborating on the "whys" I don't particularly enjoy it.

Next, no, I don't believe this is an over-reaction at all. Isn't the argument often "make your own group" anyway? Well, that's precisely what I intend to do? I am only taking a step back from the game, at least for the time being. Which also, I would argue, is a sensible logical choice when frustrated about something you have no control over. As far as "emotional sensitivity," I would counter that by the nature of what was said. Perhaps if I could convey to you what precisely was said, you might understand my point better. But it was not the typical "git good" sort of post. It was made in reference specifically to my handicap situation. Which I think many might agree, is a bit beyond "emotional sensitivity."

Lastly, I would request you to carefully re-read what I wrote. I did not state we need to reduce transmutes, I actually said we should have more options. And make those other options just as good. That way there would be not as much need to do multiple random dungeons on every character on an account every day, which I suspect, leads to the speedrunning, or at least it certainly contributes to it. I don't PVP at all, whatsoever. (I leveled my assault skill to 10 entirely through wall repairs.) I have no idea if PVP activities get transmute crystals. And if they do not, I would argue that they should. And, just my opinion here, its ESO trying to push PVP and PVE togeather so much that causes many of these issues in the first place. Some people PVP. Some people PVE. Many do both. None of them is wrong. But, there are many pve people who strongly dislike any and all PVP, myself included. And I suspect the same could be said for PVP people. So, to my mind, it would be fair as well as balanced for PVP to have some way to get the same crystals that PVE people have.

If you want to change people's behavior, the best way to do it is to offer other options and let them decide for themselves.

But, on a personal note, my main issue isn't speedrunning at all, as much as peoples attitudes on both respective sides to the argument. Examples in this post chain, as well as elsewhere, strike me as petty, resentful, or just plain bitter. Using myself as an example here (I do not actually feel this way, only using myself as an example for context)

Me: "The lack of empathy and consideration for speedrunning, means I will lack empathy and consideration for things that do not affect me, such as Tank Waiting times, fake tanks, fake healers, PVP balancing, PVP partcipation, etc"

This only leads to resentment. Which I hope everyone involved can agree is not a good thing. I do believe that we - pvpers, pve'ers, roleplayers, speedsters, questers, etc - Have more we like in common than we dislike. I just wish it wasn't so "YOUR way is wrong. OUR way is the default/better/superior/efficient." There is no compromise, no consideration, and no trying to meet one another halfway on things, many of which honestly really could be solved by the community itself without any action from the Devs.

Again, thank you for the well spoken response, but I think you might have misread my post, as well as its intent.

Best wishes, to everyone. Even you stinky speedrunners!

barney2525 wrote: »

I would disagree

Dungeons are part of the game.

and Dungeons have Quests, which are part of the game.

Speed runs are just a choice to not perform all aspects of the dungeon, and not perform parts of the Dungeon.

Speed runs are the choice to do the dungeon as fast as possible, which from personal experiences seems to be the default for most people.

Also the dungeons only have those quests the first time you do them. After that there is no reason to go slow (and even most quests aren't really a reason to go slow).

As long as the dungeon counts as finished you have completed all necessary parts of it.

Daoin wrote: »

Neiska wrote: »

Come, gather around the campfire, while I share the events that occurred to me over the weekend.

I made the decision to cue for a random. Instant role check, loading screen. Oh! A new dungeon? Awesome! Lets have some fun! I explained it was my first time in this dungeon, and that I would like to do the quest. I was met with silence. Then the DPS speed off, swinging their DPS hammers as hard as they can, as fast as they can. First boss went down. Second boss went down. One boss wiped us. The DPS started to get angry, I explained that I didn't know the fight, and that I am also deaf. So if they could explain the fight that would be helpful, or they have to be patient.

The DPS then told me I wasn't important, that I didn't even matter. To just taunt the boss, and then they pulled again. Perhaps unsurprisingly, we wiped. So, I left group. That same DPS then sent me a whisper, using language that I will not repeat here.

I have not logged in since. And I am unsure I will do again. As I am convinced this is how ESO wants it. This is the community. Now, I do want to highlight that its not all people. Its not even most people. But it's enough people, to spoil the experience and enjoyment. So, if I do play again, I most certainly will not do randoms with people whom I do not know.

But I did not come just to complain, I do have possible ideas that might help, in the chance that someone who might be in a position to make a difference reads this.

1. Add more ways to get transmute crystals. I get it, people want to get their dailies done fast as possible. Their crafting writs. All of their daily dungeon bonuses, across multiple characters. They just want to do it as fast as possible. The problem with this is, is that the 10 crystal bonus, actually encourages and even rewards this behavior. Adding more ways to get crystals, and making all dungeon cues the same, will reduce the number of gogogogo vs first timer/quester issues.

2. It wont be popular, but it might help if they didn't group people with 1000-2000 CP or more with people who are still leveling up. If it were up to me, there would be 2 sub-groups of randoms - people who are below 160, and everyone else. Granted, this will increase waiting time. And people do have alt accounts, so a low cp person is by no means a way to help the issue. But its at least something.

3. As far as the "if you want to quest, make your own group!" argument, to that I say, that speeding it, is not the "Default" either. There is no "Default." The only default is that people work together. And I will say that the more difficult the content, the less inclined I was to do randoms. Now? I won't do them at all. I'm transmute capped, and I have a pile of geodes ready to click. I don't NEED the crystals. I barely used them anyway. I was doing dungeons to do quests, and get outfit styles. Thats pretty much it. I don't even need dungeon drops, as I am at the point I need trial drops now.

I have played many mmos. Everquest, Wow, Rift, Vanguard, City of Heroes, etc etc etc. And in my opinion ESO has both some of the best, and some of the worst, as far as communities go. Most people are really helpful and are awesome people. Others? Pretty much "mememememe, minemineminemine, iwantiwantiwantiwant, its all about ME!" And that is fine, you will get that anywhere you go. The problem is, again, just my opinion here, is that such activity seems to be encouraged, not discouraged, which to me is very counter productive. This is certainly one of the most hostile communities I have seen. Its kind of fascinating really, to have both extremes in the same community. But back on topic.

When I do decide to log in again, I will under no circumstances do a random with random people. And you can thank that random DPS person for that. Pretty much the straw that broke the camels back. And I used to purposefully cue for specific dungeons, just to help people get them done. I actually enjoy tanking, when I am allowed to tank. When people rush ahead at blazing speed, then there is no point in me being there. And apparently, according to some people, I don't matter, and I'm not important anyway. And I shall remember that any time I see someone I don't know asking for a tank. Doesn't matter what the activity is. Doesn't matter what the reward is. My answer is going to be no, at least until ESO at least addresses this and makes their official stance known, one way or another.

My two cents on the topic.

it's true and i have 86 on my blocked list compared to 12 on my friend list (3 now offline nearly 1 year) the idea now is not to let random toxic players chase us from eso but rather to just understand that these types of encounters happen to players every day and that will likely never change. i think if you had continued to log in after a while you may have enjoyed what you were doing again in other groups, also being kicked and sworn at for not keeping up or wiping with speedrunners is now also a thing in eso dungeons and has been for quite some time. this being said i think the only change needed in eso and it's dungeons is that they need to start making better ones and aim for more quality for players rather than quantity. the fact is eso is old now and is truly just not a very good game but we keep on playing it and enjoying it not sure why other people do but i have a few reasons to keep logging in for a while to come yet. the thing is when i do eventually take breaks from the game i never want to return and it is usually from chats i have out of game that made me log in again

One thought I did have, was if the game would not group you with someone on your ignore list. That way, if someone was a speedrunner, you could just put them on ignore and never be grouped with them again, or, if you were a speedrunner, someone went too slow for you and do the same. It might help the issue, but I doubt it such a thing would be put into practice as ESO seems to favor pushing people with different playstyles together. Still, is a thought. If it was an option I would certainly use it.