v9.3.4 | Please Change before Live. This is too much...

StihlReign · February 29

Made several adjustments to Status Effects to ensure they are closer in power to one another, rather than clearly favoring Damage over Time status effects like Burning, Poisoned, and Hemorrhaging.

While these effects will likely still remain stronger in terms of total damage production, we’ve significantly increased the damage that other status effects deal on their application, while also adding more flavor to differentiate each effect.

Burning: 1
Reduced the damage of this status effect by ~6%. This value was used as the standard of power for all other status effects.
Chill: 2
Increased the damage of this status effect by ~106%.
Concussed: 3
Increased the damage of this status effect by ~106%.
This effect now deals an additional 15% damage to targets that have recently been Concussed. This operates the same way Wall of Elements’ conditional effects do (Blockade of Storms sets Concussed enemies Off Balance).
Diseased:
Increased the damage of this status effect by ~88%.
This effect now also deals additional damage in a 6 meter radius around the target, applying Minor Defiled to all enemies nearby, up to once every 4 seconds.
Hemorrhaging:
Reduced the damage of this status effect by ~58% per tick.
This effect now stacks up to 3 times, increasing its damage by 100% per stack. This will result in a ~25% damage increase when at maximum stacks when compared to before, while dealing less damage if you cannot consistently keep the stacks active. As such, the damage now updates dynamically per tick.
This status effect no longer applies Minor Mangle.
Overcharged:
Increased the damage of this status effect by ~106%.
This effect now also instantly restores 65 Magicka to its activator.
Poisoned:
Reduced the damage of this status effect by ~30% per tick.
Reduced the duration to 4 seconds, down from 6.
The damage now is considered execute damage and deals up to 100% bonus damage to targets under 100% Health. As such, the damage now updates dynamically per tick.
Sundered:
Increased the damage of this status effect by ~106%.
This effect now also grants you 100 Weapon and Spell Damage for 4 seconds.

Developer Comment:

For too long have the status effects of Burning, Poisoned, and Hemorrhaging reigned supreme over their Direct Damage cousins. In efforts to both align the power of status effects and improve the flavor each of them provides, we’ve done a large pass on their values and functionality, in hopes that the system becomes more impactful for builds that use damage types outside of Flame, Poison, or Bleed.

Over-time status effects now have minor differences that give each of them a purpose and edge: Flame damage is the staple standard that offers consistent damage, Poison shines in execute phases, while Bleeds shine when constantly applied and maintained.

Direct Damage status effects now deal much more damage than before; granted they will still deal less overall damage per application, as they offer other effects as well.

To make up for the lack in total damage, we’re also adding more utility to these effects to help facilitate that each damage type focuses on (this sentence is unclear. Misspelling?). We’ve opted to not enhance Chill’s additional effects as it already has a unique functionality for those frosty ones out there.

Please do not release this live without adding a COST to Elemental Susceptibility or removing the cost from one ability per weapon. This is too much free damage.

TankHealz2015 · February 29

No PTS access/no NB character,... But still.

Curious how disease status effect may work with Fasalla's Guille + Serpent's Disdain.

Could this create a "super spreader" event?

Also Sundered plus Serpents Disdain.
Is the a quick way to apply Sundered to multiple targets quickly and increase WD/SD by 300, 400, 500,... ?

Curious.

Necrotech_Master · February 29

TankHealz2015 wrote: »

Curious how disease status effect may work with Fasalla's Guille + Serpent's Disdain.

Could this create a "super spreader" event?

Also Sundered plus Serpents Disdain. Could we apply Sundered to multiple targets quickly and increase WD/SD by 300, 400, 500,... ?

you could test sundered even without serpents using NB surprise attack (guaranteed sundered on every cast) to see if that dmg buff even stack at all, or if it just refreshes duration

the serpents effect on sundered would be 20 sec of minor breach on the target at a minimum

DanteTheDeviant · February 29

How was this overlooked?? We've been complaining about it since the first PTS patch... So frustrating that ZoS doesn't listen

MashmalloMan · March 1

Why is everyone suddenly making threads about this a month after the first patch? It's too late

MashmalloMan · March 1

TankHealz2015 wrote: »

No PTS access/no NB character,... But still.

Curious how disease status effect may work with Fasalla's Guille + Serpent's Disdain.

Could this create a "super spreader" event?

Also Sundered plus Serpents Disdain.
Is the a quick way to apply Sundered to multiple targets quickly and increase WD/SD by 300, 400, 500,... ?

Curious.

"(5 items) Increase the duration of Status Effects you apply by 16 seconds."

The duration of a status effect, when attached to a status effect that deals direct damage refers to the debuff/buff, not the damage. The damage of Chilled, Sundered, Concussed, Diseased, and Overcharged only happen once on application.

The 16s would just stretch out the 4s buff/debuff of Sundered's +100 damage and -3k pen.

The diseased aoe proc has a player casted 4s cooldown. The only way around this cooldown currently is Blighted Blastbones which guarantees the diseased status effect. It will always proc the aoe bonus. Pets act as their own entity bypassing player casted rules, since you summon a new one each time, the 4s cooldown never applies to them.

tsaescishoeshiner · March 1

Elemental Susceptibility's damage is potentially going down with the changes. The 6% nerf to Burning is probably more than the increases to Chilled and Concussed—effects which deal very, very little damage on Live, so a 100% increase isn't what it sounds.

I think not everyone follows the logic that because two weapon skill lines have abilities that cost nothing, every weapon skill line needs one. It all just comes down to the individual skills and whether they're useful combined with the other skills and passives.

I was recently reminded that Mark Target had a magicka cost added, when its main use is applying Major Breach. Not sure why I'd use the skill at that point.

If Ele Sus had a cost, it would probably need something else added to it. But then it might be too strong.

MashmalloMan · March 1

tsaescishoeshiner wrote: »

Elemental Susceptibility's damage is potentially going down with the changes. The 6% nerf to Burning is probably more than the increases to Chilled and Concussed—effects which deal very, very little damage on Live, so a 100% increase isn't what it sounds.

MashmalloMan wrote: »

Status effect tick damage:
Burning = 100% (3 ticks over 4s)

Poisoned = 66% (scales up to 2x, 3 ticks over 4s)

Hemorrhaging = 44% (stacking 3x, 3 ticks over 4s)

Hemorrhaging = 75%/100%/125% (2nd and 3rd stack add +25%, 3 ticks over 4s)

Concussed = 110% (125% if within 4s)

Overcharged = 110%

Sundered = 110%

Chilled = 110%

Diseased = 100% + 40% (aoe 4s cd)

https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/651733/status-effect-rework-analysis-good-change#latest

See link and quote above for more info on status effects from PTS.

Definitely not, it's going to go up, easy enough to prove. Chilled and Concussed both deal more damage than Burning as an individual tick now and scale a bit better as Direct CP is more vital than DOT CP in pvp/pve.

Converting these percent's into numbers. Builds can achieve this, it's not that difficult:

PTS:

Burning Tick = 2000 (x3 over 4s) = 6000
Chill Tick = 2200
Concussed Tick = 2200 (Without 15% multiplier)
Burst from 1st ticks = 6400
Total with +2 Burning Ticks= 10400

Live:

Burning Tick = 2128 (x3 over 4s) = 6384
Chill Tick = 1068
Concussed Tick = 1068
Burst from 1st ticks = 4264
Total with +2 Burning Ticks = 8520

This is a +50% buff to burst or +22% buff to total damage dealt vs live, without the 15% multiplier from Concussed which now becomes easier to obtain because 4/7.5s an enemy is now Concussed with this ability guaranteed.

tsaescishoeshiner wrote: »

I think not everyone follows the logic that because two weapon skill lines have abilities that cost nothing, every weapon skill line needs one. It all just comes down to the individual skills and whether they're useful combined with the other skills and passives.

I was recently reminded that Mark Target had a magicka cost added, when its main use is applying Major Breach. Not sure why I'd use the skill at that point.

If Ele Sus had a cost, it would probably need something else added to it. But then it might be too strong.

Ele Sus is specifically strong on back bar where you slot most of your defensive and long duration buff skills in pvp, thus most builds have a 2 piece/ability flex spot there. Individually, this skill is way too powerful surpassing actual damage abilities like Degeneration in damage dealt over time. Adding a cost still wouldn't fix the issue, but it would at least make it more balanced.

In the other thread we came up with a complete rework that still keeps the original identity alive.

2400-2700ish cost
20s duration
+5% ele damage dealt based on weapon type
1x status effect instead of 3x based on weapon type
Procs every 4-6s, instead of every 7.5s

This way, it strips away the set and forget playstyle to get minor maim, minor vulnerability, minor brittle, and major breach ALL in a 30s ability for no cost. It lasts less time, costs something, and is focused on the weapon type you're using.

Sakiri · March 1

Let me guess, pvp complaint?

katorga · March 1

tsaescishoeshiner wrote: »

I was recently reminded that Mark Target had a magicka cost added, when its main use is applying Major Breach. Not sure why I'd use the skill at that point.

My guess is it was added when they added heal to full health not affected by battle spirit.

Status effects are more efficient than wasting GCD on dots in PVP, in my opinion.

And I *think* the charged Asylum Destro staff can proc two of the same status effect damage every second cast. The staff's proc is 1, and the damage from Crushing Shock can proc it a second time like it normally would.

tsaescishoeshiner · March 1

MashmalloMan wrote: »

tsaescishoeshiner wrote: »

Elemental Susceptibility's damage is potentially going down with the changes. The 6% nerf to Burning is probably more than the increases to Chilled and Concussed—effects which deal very, very little damage on Live, so a 100% increase isn't what it sounds.

MashmalloMan wrote: »

Status effect tick damage:
Burning = 100% (3 ticks over 4s)

Poisoned = 66% (scales up to 2x, 3 ticks over 4s)

Hemorrhaging = 44% (stacking 3x, 3 ticks over 4s)

Hemorrhaging = 75%/100%/125% (2nd and 3rd stack add +25%, 3 ticks over 4s)

Concussed = 110% (125% if within 4s)

Overcharged = 110%

Sundered = 110%

Chilled = 110%

Diseased = 100% + 40% (aoe 4s cd)

https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/651733/status-effect-rework-analysis-good-change#latest

See link and quote above for more info on status effects from PTS.

Definitely not, it's going to go up, easy enough to prove. Chilled and Concussed both deal more damage than Burning as an individual tick now and scale a bit better as Direct CP is more vital than DOT CP in pvp/pve.

Converting these percent's into numbers. Builds can achieve this, it's not that difficult:

PTS:
Burning Tick = 2000 (x3 over 4s) = 6000

Chill Tick = 2200

Concussed Tick = 2200 (Without 15% multiplier)

Burst from 1st ticks = 6400

Total with +2 Burning Ticks= 10400

Live:
Burning Tick = 2128 (x3 over 4s) = 6384

Chill Tick = 1068

Concussed Tick = 1068

Burst from 1st ticks = 4264

Total with +2 Burning Ticks = 8520

This is a +50% buff to burst or +22% buff to total damage dealt vs live, without the 15% multiplier from Concussed which now becomes easier to obtain because 4/7.5s an enemy is now Concussed with this ability guaranteed.

tsaescishoeshiner wrote: »

I think not everyone follows the logic that because two weapon skill lines have abilities that cost nothing, every weapon skill line needs one. It all just comes down to the individual skills and whether they're useful combined with the other skills and passives.

I was recently reminded that Mark Target had a magicka cost added, when its main use is applying Major Breach. Not sure why I'd use the skill at that point.

If Ele Sus had a cost, it would probably need something else added to it. But then it might be too strong.

Ele Sus is specifically strong on back bar where you slot most of your defensive and long duration buff skills in pvp, thus most builds have a 2 piece/ability flex spot there. Individually, this skill is way too powerful surpassing actual damage abilities like Degeneration in damage dealt over time. Adding a cost still wouldn't fix the issue, but it would at least make it more balanced.

In the other thread we came up with a complete rework that still keeps the original identity alive.
2400-2700ish cost

20s duration

+5% ele damage dealt based on weapon type

1x status effect instead of 3x based on weapon type

Procs every 4-6s, instead of every 7.5s

This way, it strips away the set and forget playstyle to get minor maim, minor vulnerability, minor brittle, and major breach ALL in a 30s ability for no cost. It lasts less time, costs something, and is focused on the weapon type you're using.

Thank you for the numbers! As always, sometimes the best way to get the facts is to say something that might be wrong lol.

That said, I think going from 8.5k to 10.4k damage every 7.5 seconds makes the PTS changes not as big of an increase for Ele Sus as they are for the direct damage of Force Pulse on status effect builds.

I just think too much of a cost increase could take this skill from everywhere to almost nowhere, since it's specifically used by a lot of people for the free cost Major Breach with some damage tacked on. Given the long duration and buffs, maybe a smaller cost would be fine.

sarahthes · March 1

Unfortunately, the major breach needs to stay for PvE ice/ice tanking.

Jsmalls · March 4

I believe Force Pulse and it's interaction with Charged also needs to be looked at.

It's classified as a single target direct damage ability which gives it a base 10% chance to proc a status effect.

Destruction staff has a base 100% increase to this chance in passives.

Charged is an additional 240% (I forget the changed value).

There is a 30% increase in the champion tree.

So this is in total a 400% increase, bringing that 10% chance to 50%.

Force Pulse I believe is the only ability in the game with 3 different damage types. Due to this it is offering way too much additional damage from the added proc of these new buffs to immediate damage status effects. And the interaction of the Asylum staff AND charged is giving waaaay too much free damage. This will immediately become the new meta.

Easy fix, change the % chance of each status effect proc to account for the number of elements active in the ability. So for force pulse that's 3.33% (10/3=3.33% chance per Element. That's still a 16.15% chance per element which seems balanced.

This really needs to be addressed before live because we don't need a ranged spammable doing that much damage.

Lystrad · March 4

Jsmalls wrote: »

I believe Force Pulse and it's interaction with Charged also needs to be looked at.

It's classified as a single target direct damage ability which gives it a base 10% chance to proc a status effect.

Destruction staff has a base 100% increase to this chance in passives.

Charged is an additional 240% (I forget the changed value).

There is a 30% increase in the champion tree.

So this is in total a 400% increase, bringing that 10% chance to 50%.

Force Pulse I believe is the only ability in the game with 3 different damage types. Due to this it is offering way too much additional damage from the added proc of these new buffs to immediate damage status effects. And the interaction of the Asylum staff AND charged is giving waaaay too much free damage. This will immediately become the new meta.

Easy fix, change the % chance of each status effect proc to account for the number of elements active in the ability. So for force pulse that's 3.33% (10/3=3.33% chance per Element. That's still a 16.15% chance per element which seems balanced.

This really needs to be addressed before live because we don't need a ranged spammable doing that much damage.

Question? Can A single cast of an ability with multiple hits of the same damage type proc the same status effect multiple times? That is to say, this seems most obviously like it has the potential to be really strong with force pulse, but what I'm wondering is if that is this case would this also effect runeblades, jabs, sweeps, and rapid strikes (maybe bloodthirst).

StarOfElyon · March 4

sarahthes wrote: »

Unfortunately, the major breach needs to stay for PvE ice/ice tanking.

The other morph has breach already.

gariondavey · March 4

Lystrad wrote: »

Jsmalls wrote: »

I believe Force Pulse and it's interaction with Charged also needs to be looked at.

It's classified as a single target direct damage ability which gives it a base 10% chance to proc a status effect.

Destruction staff has a base 100% increase to this chance in passives.

Charged is an additional 240% (I forget the changed value).

There is a 30% increase in the champion tree.

So this is in total a 400% increase, bringing that 10% chance to 50%.

Force Pulse I believe is the only ability in the game with 3 different damage types. Due to this it is offering way too much additional damage from the added proc of these new buffs to immediate damage status effects. And the interaction of the Asylum staff AND charged is giving waaaay too much free damage. This will immediately become the new meta.

Easy fix, change the % chance of each status effect proc to account for the number of elements active in the ability. So for force pulse that's 3.33% (10/3=3.33% chance per Element. That's still a 16.15% chance per element which seems balanced.

This really needs to be addressed before live because we don't need a ranged spammable doing that much damage.

Question? Can A single cast of an ability with multiple hits of the same damage type proc the same status effect multiple times? That is to say, this seems most obviously like it has the potential to be really strong with force pulse, but what I'm wondering is if that is this case would this also effect runeblades, jabs, sweeps, and rapid strikes (maybe bloodthirst).

Jabs, rapid strikes, bloodthirster only can apply their connected status effect 1 time per cast

Jsmalls · March 4

Lystrad wrote: »

Jsmalls wrote: »

I believe Force Pulse and it's interaction with Charged also needs to be looked at.

It's classified as a single target direct damage ability which gives it a base 10% chance to proc a status effect.

Destruction staff has a base 100% increase to this chance in passives.

Charged is an additional 240% (I forget the changed value).

There is a 30% increase in the champion tree.

So this is in total a 400% increase, bringing that 10% chance to 50%.

Force Pulse I believe is the only ability in the game with 3 different damage types. Due to this it is offering way too much additional damage from the added proc of these new buffs to immediate damage status effects. And the interaction of the Asylum staff AND charged is giving waaaay too much free damage. This will immediately become the new meta.

Easy fix, change the % chance of each status effect proc to account for the number of elements active in the ability. So for force pulse that's 3.33% (10/3=3.33% chance per Element. That's still a 16.15% chance per element which seems balanced.

This really needs to be addressed before live because we don't need a ranged spammable doing that much damage.

Question? Can A single cast of an ability with multiple hits of the same damage type proc the same status effect multiple times? That is to say, this seems most obviously like it has the potential to be really strong with force pulse, but what I'm wondering is if that is this case would this also effect runeblades, jabs, sweeps, and rapid strikes (maybe bloodthirst).

I'm under the impression that these abilities don't count as direct damage abilities and rather work as short term damage over time which only get 3% chance per damage instance already. But I've never tested this for each of those abilities (I saw someone tested bound armaments and this was the case).

Necrotech_Master · March 4

Jsmalls wrote: »

I believe Force Pulse and it's interaction with Charged also needs to be looked at.

It's classified as a single target direct damage ability which gives it a base 10% chance to proc a status effect.

Destruction staff has a base 100% increase to this chance in passives.

Charged is an additional 240% (I forget the changed value).

There is a 30% increase in the champion tree.

So this is in total a 400% increase, bringing that 10% chance to 50%.

Force Pulse I believe is the only ability in the game with 3 different damage types. Due to this it is offering way too much additional damage from the added proc of these new buffs to immediate damage status effects. And the interaction of the Asylum staff AND charged is giving waaaay too much free damage. This will immediately become the new meta.

Easy fix, change the % chance of each status effect proc to account for the number of elements active in the ability. So for force pulse that's 3.33% (10/3=3.33% chance per Element. That's still a 16.15% chance per element which seems balanced.

This really needs to be addressed before live because we don't need a ranged spammable doing that much damage.

if you use the asylum destro staff, you get 100% chance for status effects every other cast, regardless of building into increasing chance of effects

Jsmalls · March 4

Necrotech_Master wrote: »

Jsmalls wrote: »

I believe Force Pulse and it's interaction with Charged also needs to be looked at.

It's classified as a single target direct damage ability which gives it a base 10% chance to proc a status effect.

Destruction staff has a base 100% increase to this chance in passives.

Charged is an additional 240% (I forget the changed value).

There is a 30% increase in the champion tree.

So this is in total a 400% increase, bringing that 10% chance to 50%.

Force Pulse I believe is the only ability in the game with 3 different damage types. Due to this it is offering way too much additional damage from the added proc of these new buffs to immediate damage status effects. And the interaction of the Asylum staff AND charged is giving waaaay too much free damage. This will immediately become the new meta.

Easy fix, change the % chance of each status effect proc to account for the number of elements active in the ability. So for force pulse that's 3.33% (10/3=3.33% chance per Element. That's still a 16.15% chance per element which seems balanced.

This really needs to be addressed before live because we don't need a ranged spammable doing that much damage.

if you use the asylum destro staff, you get 100% chance for status effects every other cast, regardless of building into increasing chance of effects

Yes, but what a lot of people don't know is that those procs are independent entities, so you still have the chance to proc those status effects from the damage portion of the ability itself (so you have the chance to double proc status effects on every 2nd cast, so with great RNG up to 6 status effects from a single cast). This has been tested by myself and others.

ADarklore · March 4

I always thought it was weird that Weakness to Elements never had an actual cost associated, especially given its duration. However, I'm all for having a no cost ability, so I'm hoping ZOS doesn't change it.

olsborg · March 4

Elemental Susceptibility is OP already on live imo, gonna be even crazier after new patch.

ssewallb14_ESO · March 4

I checked out of PvP quite a while ago but I'm guessing pulse gankers are gonna be hilariously broken now? Or is that not a thing anymore?

Tannus15 · March 4

Sakiri wrote: »

Let me guess, pvp complaint?

yes, this is entirely a PvP complaint.

From a PvE perspective I don't really care if they change ele sus. both morphs are still too similar making one redundant imo. honestly a 10s version with a cost that is more impactful would be better for PvE since it would at least line up with the vate staff. All the debuffs they are concerned about are provided by supports now so other than range tanking or content where there is no tank like vSS portals it has no use.

As for a late nerf to force pulse status effects. Just no. Destro builds finally have a competitive PvE spammable. It's long over due and it's still weaker than rapid strikes and most class spammables, and anyone who wants to run the build you're concerned about in PvP could still achieve it with an asylum staff.

Nerfing FP would just weaken it in PvE for no gain in PvP.

StarOfElyon · March 4

Sakiri wrote: »

Let me guess, pvp complaint?

Only content where balance is a thing.

Remathilis · March 4

StarOfElyon wrote: »

Sakiri wrote: »

Let me guess, pvp complaint?

Only content where balance is a thing.

:: Laughs in Update 35... ::

ZOS_Icy · March 5

Greetings,

We have recently removed some unnecessary back and forth from this thread. This is a reminder to keep the discussion civil and constructive. Please keep our Community Rules in mind moving forward.

Thank you for your understanding.