Status Effect Rework Analysis (Good Change)

MashmalloMan

Edit patch v9.3.2: Updated Hemorrhaging scaling.

Saw a lot of confusion about the status effect changes from the notes, so I did some tests on the PTS to illustrate the changes clearer. Burning was used as the standard 100% to which all other status effects were balanced around.

Status effect tick damage:

• Burning = 100% (3 ticks over 4s)
• Poisoned = 66% (scales up to 2x, 3 ticks over 4s)
• Hemorrhaging = 44% (stacking 3x, 3 ticks over 4s)
• Hemorrhaging = 75%/100%/125% (2nd and 3rd stack add +25%, 3 ticks over 4s)
• Concussed = 110% (125% if within 4s)
• Overcharged = 110%
• Sundered = 110%
• Chilled = 110%
• Diseased = 100% + 40% (aoe 4s cd)

TLDR of Status Effect mechanics:

• Burning = Single target dot for 4s
• Poisoned = Single target dot for 4s + scales up to 2x damage based on missing health
• Hemorrhaging = Single target dot for 4s + stacks 3 times
• Concussed = Single target direct damage + Minor Vulnerability for 4s + 15% damage if dealt again within 4s
• Overcharged = Single target direct damage + Minor Magicka Steal for 4s + 65 Magicka to user
• Sundered = Single target direct damage + Minor Breach for 4s + 100 Weapon/Spell Damage to user for 4s
• Chilled = Single target direct damage + Minor Maim for 4s + Minor Brittle for 4s with an Ice Staff
• Diseased = Single target direct damage + Minor Defile for 4s + aoe tick on 4s cooldown that spreads Minor Defile

Actual PTS numbers before I converted to % for simplicity:

• Burning = 577
• Poisoned = 384 at 100% hp, 756 at 1% hp.
• Hemorrhaging = 433 x1 stack, 577 x2 stacks, 721 x3 stacks
• Concussed = 634 or 729 when removing minor vulnerability.
• Overcharged = 634
• Sundered = 634
• Chilled = 634
• Diseased = 577 initial tick + 230 aoe tick on 4s cd

Basically, the 3 dot status effects are still the best at providing overall dps because they have 3 ticks 2 seconds apart. So Burning for example deals 100% a tick for 300% over 4s. Poisoned deals up to 132% a tick in execute, Hemorrhaging deals up to 132% 125% a tick with 3 stacks.

However, if you can proc any of the other 5 direct damage status effects quicker than that 2 second gap consistently, they can manage to squeak ahead since each of them deal between 100-125% a tick, but only once. This would be why they buffed DK's Burning/Poisoned bonus to 40% to make sure refreshing Burning/Poisoned status effects felt impactful.

My only feedback:

1. The damage bonus for Concussed seems a bit low and not really that impactful. It would be neat if it stacked multiple times, but had a lower bonus. Like 10%, but stacked 3x for +30% total.
2. The aoe proc for Diseased is really cool, but it deals much less damage than the original proc. The benefit is it spreads minor defile, but it feels a bit weak. 1 positive is the aoe stacks with the first tick on the original target, so technically once every 4 seconds it deals 140%, not 100%.

This is fantastic for build diversity. Really happy with how this has turned out. It will make Scribing a lot more interesting.

Thoughts?

React

From a PVP perspective, I'm personally a bit concerned about it.

The numbers I'm seeing in CMX are signifcantly higher across the board, and status themselves are sitting much higher in the list of DPS in my fights. Status are somewhat of a problem in PVP because there is no limit to how many you can have on you, and they apply for free as a "proc" without the player needing to perform any additional input. I often have fights where I'll have 3-5 instances of burning, poisoned, and hemo on me simultaneously, as well as 2-3 elemental susceptibility casts applying chilled & concussed to me with 100% uptime.

I don't think that free proc effects on all types of damage should be one of the highest contributors to your damage in a PVP setting. It doesn't make me feel like there's anything I can learn from a death when I die from DPS caused primarily from these effects, and offensively seeing these things at the top of my damage dealt is just not a great feeling.

I would really, really like to see a limit placed on instances or applications of status an individual player can receive. Being limited to just one of each status effect on you, rather than them being able to stack infinitely, would be appropriate given the new adjustments to their functionality.

Hoping that these things will be considered before the patch goes live. I'm planning on making a post myself regarding this with some of my CMX numbers after further testing, but seeing the effort you put into this post, I thought I'd stop by and contribute my feedback.

MashmalloMan

I disagree. I think you raise a good point, but it stems from the Charged trait being over buffed (nerfed this patch) and Ele Sus being on literally everyones bar because it costs nothing, is ranged, gives 3x status effects for free that can be hard for most builds to get all the while giving minor vuln/minor maim/major breach.... for 30s...

AND it's paired with one of the best back bar ability altering sets. It's a must have.

You knock Ele Sus, Vat Destro, and Charged down a peg and it shouldn't be as much of a problem.

Plus, Hemo is popular because it gives minor mangle and is attached to Master DW which was also nerfed. You're gonna see that a lot less too.

React

MashmalloMan wrote: »

I disagree. I think you raise a good point, but it stems from the Charged trait being over buffed (nerfed this patch) and Ele Sus being on literally everyones bar because it costs nothing, is ranged, gives 3x status effects for free that can be hard for most builds to get all the while giving minor vuln/minor maim/major breach.... for 30s...

AND it's paired with one of the best back bar ability altering sets. It's a must have.

You knock Ele Sus, Vat Destro, and Charged down a peg and it shouldn't be as much of a problem.

Plus, Hemo is popular because it gives minor mangle and is attached to Master DW which was also nerfed. You're gonna see that a lot less too.

I agree that the hemo adjustment makes that status more or less fine, requiring multiple quick applications to reach a value higher than live. The loss of mangle is a good change. I also agree that elemental susceptibility definitely needs to be nerfed, as it needed this treatment even before status effects were presented for adjustments this PTS cycle.

But burning and poisoned are extremely prevalent, and are undeniably problematic when they're often in the top 3-4 DPS slots in my CMX during any given fight. The Charged adjustment really isn't going to effect the value of these much. Outside of certain specific builds and on DKs for the sustain passive, the trait isn't popular enough that it alone can be attributed to the prevalence of these status in recent patches.

Single casts of sticky dots can proc these effects 3+ times over their durations. When these start to stack and you end up with 3-5 of each DOT status on you, it is simply too much "free" or "fire and forget" damage. It doesn't make for a healthy PVP meta, nor does it allow for any sort of counterplay when the entirety of your healing is being offset by free damaging "procs" such as these.

MashmalloMan

React wrote: »

MashmalloMan wrote: »

I disagree. I think you raise a good point, but it stems from the Charged trait being over buffed (nerfed this patch) and Ele Sus being on literally everyones bar because it costs nothing, is ranged, gives 3x status effects for free that can be hard for most builds to get all the while giving minor vuln/minor maim/major breach.... for 30s...

AND it's paired with one of the best back bar ability altering sets. It's a must have.

You knock Ele Sus, Vat Destro, and Charged down a peg and it shouldn't be as much of a problem.

Plus, Hemo is popular because it gives minor mangle and is attached to Master DW which was also nerfed. You're gonna see that a lot less too.

I agree that the hemo adjustment makes that status more or less fine, requiring multiple quick applications to reach a value higher than live. The loss of mangle is a good change. I also agree that elemental susceptibility definitely needs to be nerfed, as it needed this treatment even before status effects were presented for adjustments this PTS cycle.

But burning and poisoned are extremely prevalent, and are undeniably problematic when they're often in the top 3-4 DPS slots in my CMX during any given fight. The Charged adjustment really isn't going to effect the value of these much. Outside of certain specific builds and on DKs for the sustain passive, the trait isn't popular enough that it alone can be attributed to the prevalence of these status in recent patches.

Single casts of sticky dots can proc these effects 3+ times over their durations. When these start to stack and you end up with 3-5 of each DOT status on you, it is simply too much "free" or "fire and forget" damage. It doesn't make for a healthy PVP meta, nor does it allow for any sort of counterplay when the entirety of your healing is being offset by free damaging "procs" such as these.

Completely agree, but this isn't really because of status effects. It's because:

1. Purging is a commodity most classes can't use.
2. ZOS in their infinite wisdom made dot skills last 20-30s long.

Each class imo should have some level of purge options at their disposal if you're going to force 20-30s dots on us. It doesn't need to be the best purge in the world, some classes could do it better, but something baked into our defensive skills.

Necrotech_Master

i really liked the idea of the diseased doing aoe dmg, but i feel that with a 4 tick rate and doing that low of dmg probably wont really notice

ticking once every 4 sec is pretty negligible (if the status effect lasts 6 sec thats what? 2 times over the duration?)

hemorrhaging losing the mangle debuff will make that a fairly rare debuff again too

MashmalloMan

Necrotech_Master wrote: »

i really liked the idea of the diseased doing aoe dmg, but i feel that with a 4 tick rate and doing that low of dmg probably wont really notice

ticking once every 4 sec is pretty negligible (if the status effect lasts 6 sec thats what? 2 times over the duration?)

hemorrhaging losing the mangle debuff will make that a fairly rare debuff again too

Status effects last 4s each. Basically, it looks like they did this not to make Diseased an AOE dps option, but to give you an easier time of spreading minor defile. The aoe damage is minor and can proc once every 4s, so technically you can have 100% uptime on minor defile for enemies you're not even targeting. In reality, yeah it's not gonna happen that frequently, but it can.

Not to be confused with the initial tick, that has no cooldown and can proc infinitely within that 4s cooldown for the aoe.

Necrotech_Master

MashmalloMan wrote: »

Necrotech_Master wrote: »

i really liked the idea of the diseased doing aoe dmg, but i feel that with a 4 tick rate and doing that low of dmg probably wont really notice

ticking once every 4 sec is pretty negligible (if the status effect lasts 6 sec thats what? 2 times over the duration?)

hemorrhaging losing the mangle debuff will make that a fairly rare debuff again too

Status effects last 4s each. Basically, it looks like they did this not to make Diseased an AOE dps option, but to give you an easier time of spreading minor defile. The aoe damage is minor and can proc once every 4s, so technically you can have 100% uptime on minor defile for enemies you're not even targeting. In reality, yeah it's not gonna happen that frequently, but it can.

were all of the status effects standardized to 4 sec? i thought certain ones like poisoned lasted longer like 6 sec

when i initially heard of the aoe on diseased dmg, the only place i figured that would likely really be useful would be pvp, which still sounds about right with the basically 1 aoe tick with minor defile

the only other place i could see it making any difference would be in the infinite archive with the massive boosting from focused efforts

MashmalloMan

Necrotech_Master wrote: »

MashmalloMan wrote: »

Necrotech_Master wrote: »

i really liked the idea of the diseased doing aoe dmg, but i feel that with a 4 tick rate and doing that low of dmg probably wont really notice

ticking once every 4 sec is pretty negligible (if the status effect lasts 6 sec thats what? 2 times over the duration?)

hemorrhaging losing the mangle debuff will make that a fairly rare debuff again too

Status effects last 4s each. Basically, it looks like they did this not to make Diseased an AOE dps option, but to give you an easier time of spreading minor defile. The aoe damage is minor and can proc once every 4s, so technically you can have 100% uptime on minor defile for enemies you're not even targeting. In reality, yeah it's not gonna happen that frequently, but it can.

were all of the status effects standardized to 4 sec? i thought certain ones like poisoned lasted longer like 6 sec

when i initially heard of the aoe on diseased dmg, the only place i figured that would likely really be useful would be pvp, which still sounds about right with the basically 1 aoe tick with minor defile

the only other place i could see it making any difference would be in the infinite archive with the massive boosting from focused efforts

Poisoned was the only 1 that lasted 6s out of all 8, but it gives no minor buff/debuff. Yes, it was changed to 4s.

ZhuJiuyin

I think Elemental Susceptibility still maintains a balance, albeit a dangerous one.
First, Status Effects only fires every 7.5 seconds, so no new effects from Concussed will be triggered.
Secondly, Elemental Susceptibility is very common in PVP, but not in PVE.
Third, Elemental Susceptibility is currently one of the few public skills that can stably obtain Status Effects. Some Status Effects, such as Overcharged, have no stable source of public skills at all. Or like Concussed, except for Elemental Susceptibility and Destructive Touch, there is no stable source (Elemental Weapon is given randomly). If ZOS wants to improve Status Effects settings, it needs to allow more classes to stably access Status Effects, such as allowing Sorc to stably cause Concussed.

Just an expectation:
Let Lightning Splash be similar to NB's Debilitate. Every moment of damage will cause Concussed. This will not only make up for the lack of Lightning Splash damage, but also make good use of the new effect of Concussed. And it doesn't make Sorc too powerful in PVP.

React

ZhuJiuyin wrote: »

I think Elemental Susceptibility still maintains a balance, albeit a dangerous one.
First, Status Effects only fires every 7.5 seconds, so no new effects from Concussed will be triggered.
Secondly, Elemental Susceptibility is very common in PVP, but not in PVE.
Third, Elemental Susceptibility is currently one of the few public skills that can stably obtain Status Effects. Some Status Effects, such as Overcharged, have no stable source of public skills at all. Or like Concussed, except for Elemental Susceptibility and Destructive Touch, there is no stable source (Elemental Weapon is given randomly). If ZOS wants to improve Status Effects settings, it needs to allow more classes to stably access Status Effects, such as allowing Sorc to stably cause Concussed.

Just an expectation:
Let Lightning Splash be similar to NB's Debilitate. Every moment of damage will cause Concussed. This will not only make up for the lack of Lightning Splash damage, but also make good use of the new effect of Concussed. And it doesn't make Sorc too powerful in PVP.

Major breach, 6% damage done, 5% damage reduction, 10% crit damage, two instances of direct damage and a dot, four times over 30s on a 28 meter free to cast skill is "balanced"?

MashmalloMan

ZhuJiuyin wrote: »

I think Elemental Susceptibility still maintains a balance, albeit a dangerous one.
First, Status Effects only fires every 7.5 seconds, so no new effects from Concussed will be triggered.
Secondly, Elemental Susceptibility is very common in PVP, but not in PVE.
Third, Elemental Susceptibility is currently one of the few public skills that can stably obtain Status Effects. Some Status Effects, such as Overcharged, have no stable source of public skills at all. Or like Concussed, except for Elemental Susceptibility and Destructive Touch, there is no stable source (Elemental Weapon is given randomly). If ZOS wants to improve Status Effects settings, it needs to allow more classes to stably access Status Effects, such as allowing Sorc to stably cause Concussed.

Just an expectation:
Let Lightning Splash be similar to NB's Debilitate. Every moment of damage will cause Concussed. This will not only make up for the lack of Lightning Splash damage, but also make good use of the new effect of Concussed. And it doesn't make Sorc too powerful in PVP.

I take it you haven't pvped very often lately if you think Ele Sus is okay the way it is. It's common knowledge it's overpowered on live, it costs nothing, and lasts too long. It just got boosted on PTS despite its overperformance. Their efforts to lower status effect chance from Charged have no effect on this skill which guarantees those 3.

To your points:

1. Thats not the main problem, it's that it's free and lasts 30s long with major breach, minor vuln, minor maim, minor brittle, deals damage, and attached to a very strong weapon, Vat Destro.
2. That is exactly what were discussing, pvp. It's not popular in pve because the 4 named effects it gives are all sourced from support roles for DPS. It's a very good skill for solo and small group play like arenas though.
3. Why exactly do we need a skill to give 3 status effects for 100% proc chance for free to everyone? Also, have you seen the ability Destructive Reach? That skill is very balanced. Has a cost, gives you 100% proc chance on 1 element based on the staff. If your whole angle here is that Sorc needs Concussed, then it's not much of an argument. That issue starts with within the class and how a lot of the damage skills they have deal Magic instead of Shock damage. The skills that do like Fury and Lightning Flood suck.

So basically from what I read you don't want it changed because you like it for Sorc pve dps. I think there is other ways to fix your problems that we can tackle rather than writing off Ele Sus as completely okay like the one you just suggested regarding NB.

MashmalloMan

React wrote: »

ZhuJiuyin wrote: »

I think Elemental Susceptibility still maintains a balance, albeit a dangerous one.
First, Status Effects only fires every 7.5 seconds, so no new effects from Concussed will be triggered.
Secondly, Elemental Susceptibility is very common in PVP, but not in PVE.
Third, Elemental Susceptibility is currently one of the few public skills that can stably obtain Status Effects. Some Status Effects, such as Overcharged, have no stable source of public skills at all. Or like Concussed, except for Elemental Susceptibility and Destructive Touch, there is no stable source (Elemental Weapon is given randomly). If ZOS wants to improve Status Effects settings, it needs to allow more classes to stably access Status Effects, such as allowing Sorc to stably cause Concussed.

Just an expectation:
Let Lightning Splash be similar to NB's Debilitate. Every moment of damage will cause Concussed. This will not only make up for the lack of Lightning Splash damage, but also make good use of the new effect of Concussed. And it doesn't make Sorc too powerful in PVP.

Major breach, 6% damage done, 5% damage reduction, 10% crit damage, two instances of direct damage and a dot, four times over 30s on a 28 meter free to cast skill is "balanced"?

They're looking at pve dps I'm pretty sure. It's 100% not balanced for pvp. Also totally forgot the minor brittle lol

Also, is it not 5 instances?

• 1st = On cast
• 2nd = 7.5s
• 3rd = 15s
• 4th = 22.5s
• 5th = 30s

I can't check right now.

Necrotech_Master

MashmalloMan wrote: »

React wrote: »

ZhuJiuyin wrote: »

I think Elemental Susceptibility still maintains a balance, albeit a dangerous one.
First, Status Effects only fires every 7.5 seconds, so no new effects from Concussed will be triggered.
Secondly, Elemental Susceptibility is very common in PVP, but not in PVE.
Third, Elemental Susceptibility is currently one of the few public skills that can stably obtain Status Effects. Some Status Effects, such as Overcharged, have no stable source of public skills at all. Or like Concussed, except for Elemental Susceptibility and Destructive Touch, there is no stable source (Elemental Weapon is given randomly). If ZOS wants to improve Status Effects settings, it needs to allow more classes to stably access Status Effects, such as allowing Sorc to stably cause Concussed.

Just an expectation:
Let Lightning Splash be similar to NB's Debilitate. Every moment of damage will cause Concussed. This will not only make up for the lack of Lightning Splash damage, but also make good use of the new effect of Concussed. And it doesn't make Sorc too powerful in PVP.

Major breach, 6% damage done, 5% damage reduction, 10% crit damage, two instances of direct damage and a dot, four times over 30s on a 28 meter free to cast skill is "balanced"?

They're looking at pve dps I'm pretty sure. It's 100% not balanced for pvp. Also totally forgot the minor brittle lol

Also, is it not 5 instances?

• 1st = On cast
• 2nd = 7.5s
• 3rd = 15s
• 4th = 22.5s
• 5th = 30s

I can't check right now.

im pretty sure you are correct, because it does tick the effects again right as it expires (pretty sure ive noticed this in pvp when someone happens to hit me with it from long range)

MashmalloMan

Necrotech_Master wrote: »

MashmalloMan wrote: »

React wrote: »

ZhuJiuyin wrote: »

I think Elemental Susceptibility still maintains a balance, albeit a dangerous one.
First, Status Effects only fires every 7.5 seconds, so no new effects from Concussed will be triggered.
Secondly, Elemental Susceptibility is very common in PVP, but not in PVE.
Third, Elemental Susceptibility is currently one of the few public skills that can stably obtain Status Effects. Some Status Effects, such as Overcharged, have no stable source of public skills at all. Or like Concussed, except for Elemental Susceptibility and Destructive Touch, there is no stable source (Elemental Weapon is given randomly). If ZOS wants to improve Status Effects settings, it needs to allow more classes to stably access Status Effects, such as allowing Sorc to stably cause Concussed.

Just an expectation:
Let Lightning Splash be similar to NB's Debilitate. Every moment of damage will cause Concussed. This will not only make up for the lack of Lightning Splash damage, but also make good use of the new effect of Concussed. And it doesn't make Sorc too powerful in PVP.

Major breach, 6% damage done, 5% damage reduction, 10% crit damage, two instances of direct damage and a dot, four times over 30s on a 28 meter free to cast skill is "balanced"?

They're looking at pve dps I'm pretty sure. It's 100% not balanced for pvp. Also totally forgot the minor brittle lol

Also, is it not 5 instances?

• 1st = On cast
• 2nd = 7.5s
• 3rd = 15s
• 4th = 22.5s
• 5th = 30s

I can't check right now.

im pretty sure you are correct, because it does tick the effects again right as it expires (pretty sure ive noticed this in pvp when someone happens to hit me with it from long range)

Yeah so best part is, it's even longer than the 30s we're quoting. It's 34s all things considered lol.

Vaqual

I think the nerf to charged is ok for single target direct damage sources, but overall I don't like it so much overall. We are now getting close to its old value before the buffed it by a lot and it was mostly considered useless then. Of course the original buff was too steep, but there is no point in having strong status ticks when they never happen. It's like running 100 % crit damage and 15 % crit chance. That just strongly favours abilities like Ele sus and Rending Slashes or Heartland Conqueror for some of the classes that have decent access to a variety of damage types. I think right now charged is more universally useful then it will be. I am mostly ok with the change, but I would increase the base proc chance for aoe dot, single target dot and direct aoe just to compensate for the loss, as they are anyways no major contributors to status pressure and aoe dots, and to a lesser degree single target dots (tick rate nerf matters here), could really need a little help at the moment.

I would like for charged to be somewhat universally decent, outside of using specific status skills and sets, just like precise/infused/powered etc. have very universal use. And I also don't think that the currently dominating status interactos (see above) need this kind of lopsided buff.

On another note, did anyone test thurvokun on pts? I feel like this could be a bit cheesy with pull sets, when all the diseased procs come in every second. The set is certainly not brilliant, but it was also not balanced around this change.
I guess for plaguebreak it fits the theme.

olsborg

MashmalloMan wrote: »

You knock Ele Sus, Vat Destro, and Charged down a peg and it shouldn't be as much of a problem.

They rly should nerf ele sus quite abit imo.

ESO_Nightingale

olsborg wrote: »

MashmalloMan wrote: »

You knock Ele Sus, Vat Destro, and Charged down a peg and it shouldn't be as much of a problem.

They rly should nerf ele sus quite abit imo.

yeah, honestly i think reworking the functionality, maybe to some thing based on the element of your staff would be cool, such as applying concussed, chilled or burning (depending on staff type) once every 2 seconds, or even making it a unique elemental debuff based on the staff type, eg, 15% increased frost damage taken from caster.

MashmalloMan

ESO_Nightingale wrote: »

olsborg wrote: »

MashmalloMan wrote: »

You knock Ele Sus, Vat Destro, and Charged down a peg and it shouldn't be as much of a problem.

They rly should nerf ele sus quite abit imo.

yeah, honestly i think reworking the functionality, maybe to some thing based on the element of your staff would be cool, such as applying concussed, chilled or burning (depending on staff type) once every 2 seconds, or even making it a unique elemental debuff based on the staff type, eg, 15% increased frost damage taken from caster.

I really like that idea, I could see some basic changes like this to make it more balanced:

• Proc 1 instead of 3 status effects, based on the staff used to cast it.
• Reduce proc delay from 7.5s to 4s.
• Reduce duration from 30s to 20s.
• Add cost of 2400 Magicka.
• Edit: Add +5% Fire, Shock, or Frost damage taken for the duration, based on the staff used to cast it.

This fixes a number of problems, while making it more impactful for the specific Staff you choose.

silentxthreat

we just need to nerf vate destro staff and it will be fine actually better then fine

xDeusEJRx

ZhuJiuyin wrote: »

I think Elemental Susceptibility still maintains a balance, albeit a dangerous one.
First, Status Effects only fires every 7.5 seconds, so no new effects from Concussed will be triggered.

The status effects having a downtime of 7.5 seconds is actually misleading in practice, because you can get around the 7.5 second downtime by just re-applying the skill. The debuffs start on cast so if someone spams or frequently uses the skill (such as a Vateshran staff user) you can negate or lessen the downtime that the skill supposedly has.

So it might sound nice that the 7.5 second downtime exists, but most people who use vateshran staff are getting around the skills downtime anyways by frequently applying Ele Sus in order to get the Wrath of elements proc going.

MashmalloMan

xDeusEJRx wrote: »

ZhuJiuyin wrote: »

I think Elemental Susceptibility still maintains a balance, albeit a dangerous one.
First, Status Effects only fires every 7.5 seconds, so no new effects from Concussed will be triggered.

The status effects having a downtime of 7.5 seconds is actually misleading in practice, because you can get around the 7.5 second downtime by just re-applying the skill. The debuffs start on cast so if someone spams or frequently uses the skill (such as a Vateshran staff user) you can negate or lessen the downtime that the skill supposedly has.

So it might sound nice that the 7.5 second downtime exists, but most people who use vateshran staff are getting around the skills downtime anyways by frequently applying Ele Sus in order to get the Wrath of elements proc going.

The downtime isn't really 7.5s to begin with, the status effects last 4s long so the actual downtime is 3.5s. All you're getting back by spamming it is the tick for Frost and Concussed, which is pretty weak on live.

xDeusEJRx

MashmalloMan wrote: »

xDeusEJRx wrote: »

ZhuJiuyin wrote: »

I think Elemental Susceptibility still maintains a balance, albeit a dangerous one.
First, Status Effects only fires every 7.5 seconds, so no new effects from Concussed will be triggered.

The status effects having a downtime of 7.5 seconds is actually misleading in practice, because you can get around the 7.5 second downtime by just re-applying the skill. The debuffs start on cast so if someone spams or frequently uses the skill (such as a Vateshran staff user) you can negate or lessen the downtime that the skill supposedly has.

So it might sound nice that the 7.5 second downtime exists, but most people who use vateshran staff are getting around the skills downtime anyways by frequently applying Ele Sus in order to get the Wrath of elements proc going.

The downtime isn't really 7.5s to begin with, the status effects last 4s long so the actual downtime is 3.5s. All you're getting back by spamming it is the tick for Frost and Concussed, which is pretty weak on live.

True but a lot of people using the Wrath of elements set are definitely spamming the skill or using it very frequently in rotation. The downtime is pretty much a joke

MashmalloMan

xDeusEJRx wrote: »

MashmalloMan wrote: »

xDeusEJRx wrote: »

ZhuJiuyin wrote: »

I think Elemental Susceptibility still maintains a balance, albeit a dangerous one.
First, Status Effects only fires every 7.5 seconds, so no new effects from Concussed will be triggered.

The status effects having a downtime of 7.5 seconds is actually misleading in practice, because you can get around the 7.5 second downtime by just re-applying the skill. The debuffs start on cast so if someone spams or frequently uses the skill (such as a Vateshran staff user) you can negate or lessen the downtime that the skill supposedly has.

So it might sound nice that the 7.5 second downtime exists, but most people who use vateshran staff are getting around the skills downtime anyways by frequently applying Ele Sus in order to get the Wrath of elements proc going.

The downtime isn't really 7.5s to begin with, the status effects last 4s long so the actual downtime is 3.5s. All you're getting back by spamming it is the tick for Frost and Concussed, which is pretty weak on live.

True but a lot of people using the Wrath of elements set are definitely spamming the skill or using it very frequently in rotation. The downtime is pretty much a joke

Yeah thats what I'm getting at, not defending it lol

Turtle_Bot

MashmalloMan wrote: »

ESO_Nightingale wrote: »

olsborg wrote: »

MashmalloMan wrote: »

You knock Ele Sus, Vat Destro, and Charged down a peg and it shouldn't be as much of a problem.

They rly should nerf ele sus quite abit imo.

yeah, honestly i think reworking the functionality, maybe to some thing based on the element of your staff would be cool, such as applying concussed, chilled or burning (depending on staff type) once every 2 seconds, or even making it a unique elemental debuff based on the staff type, eg, 15% increased frost damage taken from caster.

I really like that idea, I could see some basic changes like this to make it more balanced:

• Proc 1 instead of 3 status effects, based on the staff you're holding.
• Reduce proc delay from 7.5s to 4s.
• Reduce duration from 30s to 20s.
• Add cost of 2400 Magicka.

This fixes a number of problems, while making it more impactful for the specific Staff you choose.

I would add an effect that increases damage taken of the element of the staff equipped by 5% to these changes, especially if we're going to give it a cost on top of reducing it to 1 status down from all 3 and reduce the duration by 33%.

It would also rename itself depending on the staff equipped, similar to reach/clench/wall/etc.

Elemental Susceptibility (Base Ability):
2400 Magicka
Inflicts Major breach and a debuff on the target for 20 seconds, reducing their Physical and Spell Resist by 5948 and increasing their damage taken that matches the staff equipped by 5%, also when cast and once every 4 seconds while applied, inflicts the target with respective elemental Status.

Flame Susceptibility (Inferno Staff equipped):
2400 Magicka
Inflicts Major breach and Flame Weakness on the target for 20 seconds, reducing their Physical and Spell Resist by 5948 and increasing their Flame damage taken by 5%, also when cast and once every 4 seconds while applied, inflicts the target with Burning.

Shock Susceptibility (Lightning Staff equipped):
2400 Magicka
Inflicts Major breach and Shock Weakness on the target for 20 seconds, reducing their Physical and Spell Resist by 5948 and increasing their Shock damage taken by 5%, also when cast and once every 4 seconds while applied, inflicts the target with Concussed.

Frost Susceptibility (Frost Staff equipped):
2400 Magicka
Inflicts Major breach and Frost Weakness on the target for 20 seconds, reducing their Physical and Spell Resist by 5948 and increasing their Frost damage taken by 5%, also when cast and once every 4 seconds while applied, inflicts the target with Chilled.

This gives it some unique identity depending on the class and the staff equipped. It would also finally give a way for Shock damage to get a percent boost.
Shock damage is the only element of the 3 that still lacks this type of percent boost from a set, Frost damage is now missing it from a class ability (used to have piercing cold before the reworks iirc), but its set percent bonus is bigger (nearly double) than the other elements individual percent increases.
- Frost damage has the Frostbite set (+8%), used to have piercing cold (that was roughly 5% iirc)
- Fire has Encratis's Behemoth monster set (+5%) and Fiery Breath (DK ability) (+6%)
- Shock damage has Energized Passive (sorc) (+5%), never had a set that grants a percent bonus.

MashmalloMan

Turtle_Bot wrote: »

MashmalloMan wrote: »

ESO_Nightingale wrote: »

olsborg wrote: »

MashmalloMan wrote: »

You knock Ele Sus, Vat Destro, and Charged down a peg and it shouldn't be as much of a problem.

They rly should nerf ele sus quite abit imo.

yeah, honestly i think reworking the functionality, maybe to some thing based on the element of your staff would be cool, such as applying concussed, chilled or burning (depending on staff type) once every 2 seconds, or even making it a unique elemental debuff based on the staff type, eg, 15% increased frost damage taken from caster.

I really like that idea, I could see some basic changes like this to make it more balanced:

• Proc 1 instead of 3 status effects, based on the staff you're holding.
• Reduce proc delay from 7.5s to 4s.
• Reduce duration from 30s to 20s.
• Add cost of 2400 Magicka.

This fixes a number of problems, while making it more impactful for the specific Staff you choose.

I would add an effect that increases damage taken of the element of the staff equipped by 5% to these changes, especially if we're going to give it a cost on top of reducing it to 1 status down from all 3 and reduce the duration by 33%.

It would also rename itself depending on the staff equipped, similar to reach/clench/wall/etc.

Elemental Susceptibility (Base Ability):
2400 Magicka
Inflicts Major breach and a debuff on the target for 20 seconds, reducing their Physical and Spell Resist by 5948 and increasing their damage taken that matches the staff equipped by 5%, also when cast and once every 4 seconds while applied, inflicts the target with respective elemental Status.

Flame Susceptibility (Inferno Staff equipped):
2400 Magicka
Inflicts Major breach and Flame Weakness on the target for 20 seconds, reducing their Physical and Spell Resist by 5948 and increasing their Flame damage taken by 5%, also when cast and once every 4 seconds while applied, inflicts the target with Burning.

Shock Susceptibility (Lightning Staff equipped):
2400 Magicka
Inflicts Major breach and Shock Weakness on the target for 20 seconds, reducing their Physical and Spell Resist by 5948 and increasing their Shock damage taken by 5%, also when cast and once every 4 seconds while applied, inflicts the target with Concussed.

Frost Susceptibility (Frost Staff equipped):
2400 Magicka
Inflicts Major breach and Frost Weakness on the target for 20 seconds, reducing their Physical and Spell Resist by 5948 and increasing their Frost damage taken by 5%, also when cast and once every 4 seconds while applied, inflicts the target with Chilled.

This gives it some unique identity depending on the class and the staff equipped. It would also finally give a way for Shock damage to get a percent boost.
Shock damage is the only element of the 3 that still lacks this type of percent boost from a set, Frost damage is now missing it from a class ability (used to have piercing cold before the reworks iirc), but its set percent bonus is bigger (nearly double) than the other elements individual percent increases.
- Frost damage has the Frostbite set (+8%), used to have piercing cold (that was roughly 5% iirc)
- Fire has Encratis's Behemoth monster set (+5%) and Fiery Breath (DK ability) (+6%)
- Shock damage has Energized Passive (sorc) (+5%), never had a set that grants a percent bonus.

Nice love that. Small, but hammers home what the skill is about.

Rebiludo

I would especially like them to raise "charged", even if it means lowering something else. Charged + Heartland Conqueror = 99% chance on direct attacks on live, 73% on PTS.

1% fail => 27% fail => emazing nerf xD

All joking aside, I'm more interested in ensuring effects are applied than in upping damage.

ArctosCethlenn

Ele sus really just deserves a magicka cost as was said before; probably 2700 base, same as mark target. If it wasn't literally free pressure it wouldn't be anywhere near as over-used as it is now.

Edit: or remove the first blast of status effects on cast, like when they took away the initial tick of savage werewolf.

ElderSmitter

I wonder If Serpent's Disdain will be used more in PVP. Extending Status effects by 16 Seconds with that increased damage could be a doozy lol..

Iuppiterr

Ele sus is concidered right now the best spell in eso PVP and it gets buffed, its not like its a discussion that it needs a nerf but more of when it gets nerfed

robpr

How Asylum destro compares to rest of the weapons with these changes?