Four_Fingers wrote: »

Simple obtain everything you need fo PvP by PvP in Cyro - base sets, mythics, monster sets skills, etc.
Earn everything you need for PvE by doing PvE.
Then the items can be balanced and named separately.
PvP players won't have to PvE and PvE players won't have to PvP.
They won't do this because they want players to try both PvE and PvP.

They won't do this because it doesn't make them money, in fact they'd lose money with such a change. Lots of people pre-ordered high isle, paying 40 bucks solely for Oakensoul ring. Now imagine if Oakensoul was PVE only on launch? The PVP players would have been less likely to buy high isle, the only incentive would've been for Sea Serpent.

Ultimately strong sets locked behind DLC sell well to both PVE'ers and PVP'ers, so they're never going to separate the two because that's a poor business decision. Of course they want 100s of people picking lockboxes day 1 for Oakensoul ring, because that's money.

merpins wrote: »

And they might be working on it already!

This is the funniest thing I have read on these forums in a long time. ZOS has shown zero interest in fixing anything in PVP for a few years now. For a while they packaged the lack of fixes as not wanting to tamper with things while performing a multi-threading code rewrite to improve performance. A few updates ago, they fessed up that the rewrite did not deliver any significant performance improvements. That implies the code rewrite was completed but guess what did not follow - PVP fixes. They don't even bother with tackling anything PVP related any more apart from throwing out more gear sets occasionally or adding gear rewards for quests now. They won't turn over a new Battlegrounds map. They have flatly refused to do anything about the stuck in combat bug for years despite it being pretty much the #1 problem plaguing PVP with several other issues not far behind. If they aren't going to fix bugs like that one, they certainly are not going to tackle a massive endeavor such as rebalancing PVP. It is a waste of time to expect ZOS to do anything about PVP.

xDeusEJRx wrote: »

Four_Fingers wrote: »

Simple obtain everything you need fo PvP by PvP in Cyro - base sets, mythics, monster sets skills, etc.
Earn everything you need for PvE by doing PvE.
Then the items can be balanced and named separately.
PvP players won't have to PvE and PvE players won't have to PvP.
They won't do this because they want players to try both PvE and PvP.

They won't do this because it doesn't make them money, in fact they'd lose money with such a change. Lots of people pre-ordered high isle, paying 40 bucks solely for Oakensoul ring. Now imagine if Oakensoul was PVE only on launch? The PVP players would have been less likely to buy high isle, the only incentive would've been for Sea Serpent.

Ultimately strong sets locked behind DLC sell well to both PVE'ers and PVP'ers, so they're never going to separate the two because that's a poor business decision. Of course they want 100s of people picking lockboxes day 1 for Oakensoul ring, because that's money.

Oh I agree, they could make new PvP content in DLCs PvP players would buy in an instant to offset and sell PvP sets.
But they just refuse do do new PvP content.

I've always thought that it was very funny that they refused to do this, when every other game handles pvp and pve separately. Why do they insist on trying to balance pvp and pve at the same time, with only flat adjustments to damage and healing across the board? Every other game balances abilities on an individual basis on top of flat adjustments. Flat adjustments are just the starting point, some abilities will be very very good in pvp, and some will be very bad, so adjustments obviously have to be made on an individual basis since the abilities weren't necessarily designed for pvp in the first place. It's about as smart as the decision to introduce battlegrounds with three teams instead of two, like every other game in existence.

There is no need to split the whole balance into PvP and PVE, just add a condition of being in a pvp zone to some skills/sets. For example, the recent nerf of corrosive could look like this:

As a result, in PvE the skill would remain unchanged, but in PvP the corrosive would be nerfed. A simple condition and everyone is happy.

Well, it can be simple and not so much work to do from devs side.

Step 1 - Every skill and set have PvP and PvE version. In starting point both versions are the same, we don't change anything yet! It's matter of redesign some UI and some reworks in code.
Step 2 - We have working system, so now we can balance things. For start, we don't change all sets and skill, because there is no need for this! We just nerf some overperforming things or buff some trash in one of modes only for these really broken things.
Step 3 - with time we take feedback from players and adjust more sets and skill, but still 90% of stuff don't need separate balancing, so must of them are identical for both versions.

What's most important - both versions of skills and sets will be still same thing. We don't change foundation, but only adjust some numbers - for example skill X will heal 4000HP in PvE and only 1000HP in PvP. We can add some cooldowns or things like this but nothing fancy. There will be no need for learn anything, because it will be matter of small, but impactfull adjustments. You can really balance any overpowered thing just by lowering some numbers or adding cooldowns. It can be really simple and not confusing at all...

I think the developers should hybridize what has not yet been hybridized (for example, mundus), and then start balancing the skills separately for PVP and PVE, even if it will be one or two skills per update at first, but this is what the game needs now. Mechanics for balancing separate PVE and PVP are already used to balance sets, just need to do the same with skills.

If only they would. Many PvPers are also tired of already average to strong classes in PvP (see NB as most recent) getting buffed like crazy for PvE only to see those buffs make them into literal gods in PvP because of the lack of balance separation. (FYI, I want to see NB buffed even more for PvE, but not at the cost of making it even more oppressive in PvP, so I'd love for ZOS to implement battle spirit and the against monsters clauses when adjusting balance much more).

Arcanist doesn't really need much changing, and this is coming from a non-arcanist PvPer. All it really needs is some bug fixes and maybe a slight redistribution of some of beams damage into runeblades to make that an alternative to the execute + beam combo.

If anything is going to "ruin" arcanist, it will be the release of the next new class or there is some new bug/exploit that is found.

+1 times 1 million. Please, for the love of the gods, separate PvE and PvP skills. We are begging you once again!

Here's another example. I believe that the block cost/mitigation for ice staff in pvp is absolutely unnecessary, which reduces the variety of builds, in fact, the back bar ice staff is BiS for most builds. I would be very happy if ice staff gave other bonus in pvp instead of block cost/mitigation.

I really like FFXIV's solution to this problem. Basically, all classes can only use their unique PvP exclusive actions in PvP zones. Essentially this means that each class has a PvE version and a PvP version which are balanced separately. FFXIV PvP is far from perfect in general, but I believe that this idea would massively improve this game's PvP experience and make classes feel more unique at the same time.