For the Millionth Time: Balance PVE and PVP Separately.

merpins

Title. Just... Just do it. Once you do it, balancing the game will be less of a headache for you and your players.

gariondavey

+1

boi_anachronism_

It is, i think a lot harder to do properly then we realize. That said it still needs to be done. Im a blade main in pve content, I dont pvp with him at all. There are constant calls to nerf it because of pvp because in that situation its extremely strong. Problem is even now its absolute dirt in 12 man pve. Its pretty much only strong in pvp. They cant possibly buff it for pve without making it out of control op for pvp and thats pretty depressing.

sneakymitchell

Hard to do even with current battle spirit. It’s hard to balance when characters can be powerful with one set and weaker with another.

Lykeion

100% agree with this. pve NB (especially Stamblade) has been getting weaker and weaker for at least the last three updates. All the good NB players I know have moved on to stronger classes, like Arcanist or DK, if they don't quit. At the moment, I can't find a single NB main in any of my trial teams. They're all gone. Disappointed as hell. Yet the strength of blade in pvp has made it difficult to buff it.

This predicament is the result of zos's longstanding refusal to balance pve and pvp separately. Plenty of other mmorpgs use separate balances for pve and pvp, and for a TESO-sized game, a single Battle Spirit is not enough.

merpins

sneakymitchell wrote: »

Hard to do even with current battle spirit. It’s hard to balance when characters can be powerful with one set and weaker with another.

boi_anachronism_ wrote: »

It is, i think a lot harder to do properly then we realize. That said it still needs to be done. Im a blade main in pve content, I dont pvp with him at all. There are constant calls to nerf it because of pvp because in that situation its extremely strong. Problem is even now its absolute dirt in 12 man pve. Its pretty much only strong in pvp. They cant possibly buff it for pve without making it out of control op for pvp and thats pretty depressing.

It's going to be a front-loaded endeavor, that's for sure. They need to remove battle spirit and implement a system where PVP follows different balancing game logic. For example, while in PVP, some sets might have different effects, same with some skills. This would mean skills that are in classes that are only useful in PVP would be able to be remade for PVE without changing the PVP skills. Same with some PVE skills for PVP. Same with sets.

Again, this is front loaded. It will be difficult to do, but once it's implemented, it's much less of an issue. Once the system is in place, it's just balancing after all. But it's something that absolutely needs to be done.

And they might be working on it already! We don't know. But one thing is for sure, if they are working on it or are planning on doing something like this, they need to let us know ASAP. It doesn't need to be a secret or a surprise for later. Just knowing they're planning on it will bring a lot of people back to the game, guaranteed.

boi_anachronism_

Lykeion wrote: »

Totally agree with this. pve NB (especially Stamblade) has been getting weaker and weaker for at least the last three updates. All the good NB players I know have moved on to stronger classes, like Arcanist or DK. By now, I can't find a single NB main in any of my trial teams. They're all gone. Disappointed as hell. Yet the strength of blade in pvp has made it difficult to buff it.

This predicament is the result of zos's longstanding refusal to balance pve and pvp separately. Plenty of other mmorpgs use separate balances for pve and pvp, and for an TESO-sized game, a single Battle Spirit is not enough.

Yeah problem is at my level leads dont want you to bring em. There are just better options. Reg vet? Sure. Trip skip prog? No dice. They want extensive group buffs with high damage output which both dk and arc can consistently provide. Nbs group buff is sub par at best and far from a ligit reason to add em to an organized comp. They used to have a solid spot as a healer in high end content ironically but now the arc is basically replacing it, especially with the new set coming. I mean i dont expect arc to be damage meta a patch or 2 down the road but for support? Yeah. Id say that arc healers will handedly take that spot. They also have found a pretty solid spot in ot. Tanking is well, another thing where blades also perform pretty badly compared to basically every other class out there.

Necrotech_Master

merpins wrote: »

sneakymitchell wrote: »

Hard to do even with current battle spirit. It’s hard to balance when characters can be powerful with one set and weaker with another.

boi_anachronism_ wrote: »

It is, i think a lot harder to do properly then we realize. That said it still needs to be done. Im a blade main in pve content, I dont pvp with him at all. There are constant calls to nerf it because of pvp because in that situation its extremely strong. Problem is even now its absolute dirt in 12 man pve. Its pretty much only strong in pvp. They cant possibly buff it for pve without making it out of control op for pvp and thats pretty depressing.

It's going to be a front-loaded endeavor, that's for sure. They need to remove battle spirit and implement a system where PVP follows different balancing game logic. For example, while in PVP, some sets might have different effects, same with some skills. This would mean skills that are in classes that are only useful in PVP would be able to be remade for PVE without changing the PVP skills. Same with some PVE skills for PVP. Same with sets.

Again, this is front loaded. It will be difficult to do, but once it's implemented, it's much less of an issue. Once the system is in place, it's just balancing after all. But it's something that absolutely needs to be done.

And they might be working on it already! We don't know. But one thing is for sure, if they are working on it or are planning on doing something like this, they need to let us know ASAP. It doesn't need to be a secret or a surprise for later. Just knowing they're planning on it will bring a lot of people back to the game, guaranteed.

if skills and gear had completely different effects in pvp, i would frankly just stop pvping, not to mention its basically going to duplicate every piece of set gear to have a pve and pvp effect, how about you try doing that for all 600+ gear sets in eso (not to mention a few of the gear sets that are already geared specifically for pvp and dont work in pve such as rallying cry, viscous death, plaguebreak, just to name a few)

i actually hate other games for doing this to pvp, it makes it significantly harder to get into or understand because every single freaking thing has a "in pvp" toggle to know what your item values would be in a pvp scenario, feels like you have to learn a second game

pvp in here is quite different than pve, but generally mechanics wise you equip set X, Y, Z, you know it will function the same in pve and pvp, it will just do less dmg in pvp because of battle spirit

merpins

Necrotech_Master wrote: »

merpins wrote: »

sneakymitchell wrote: »

Hard to do even with current battle spirit. It’s hard to balance when characters can be powerful with one set and weaker with another.

boi_anachronism_ wrote: »

It is, i think a lot harder to do properly then we realize. That said it still needs to be done. Im a blade main in pve content, I dont pvp with him at all. There are constant calls to nerf it because of pvp because in that situation its extremely strong. Problem is even now its absolute dirt in 12 man pve. Its pretty much only strong in pvp. They cant possibly buff it for pve without making it out of control op for pvp and thats pretty depressing.

It's going to be a front-loaded endeavor, that's for sure. They need to remove battle spirit and implement a system where PVP follows different balancing game logic. For example, while in PVP, some sets might have different effects, same with some skills. This would mean skills that are in classes that are only useful in PVP would be able to be remade for PVE without changing the PVP skills. Same with some PVE skills for PVP. Same with sets.

Again, this is front loaded. It will be difficult to do, but once it's implemented, it's much less of an issue. Once the system is in place, it's just balancing after all. But it's something that absolutely needs to be done.

And they might be working on it already! We don't know. But one thing is for sure, if they are working on it or are planning on doing something like this, they need to let us know ASAP. It doesn't need to be a secret or a surprise for later. Just knowing they're planning on it will bring a lot of people back to the game, guaranteed.

if skills and gear had completely different effects in pvp, i would frankly just stop pvping, not to mention its basically going to duplicate every piece of set gear to have a pve and pvp effect, how about you try doing that for all 600+ gear sets in eso (not to mention a few of the gear sets that are already geared specifically for pvp and dont work in pve such as rallying cry, viscous death, plaguebreak, just to name a few)

i actually hate other games for doing this to pvp, it makes it significantly harder to get into or understand because every single freaking thing has a "in pvp" toggle to know what your item values would be in a pvp scenario, feels like you have to learn a second game

pvp in here is quite different than pve, but generally mechanics wise you equip set X, Y, Z, you know it will function the same in pve and pvp, it will just do less dmg in pvp because of battle spirit

PVE and PVP needs separate balancing. There are class, weapon, and guild skills that are only useful in PVP. It's less of an issue the other way though, as the majority of PVE skills work fine in PVP, as intended.

Sets aren't a big issue, and for the most part won't need this treatment, and with so many sets, I don't really think it's necessary to go with this treatment. So you're probably right when it comes to sets, but some skills could have PVP and PVE toggles.

What makes ESO hard to get in to is not how complicated combat is for PVE or PVP. It's the sheer amount of content the game has. At least, that's been the reason I've gotten from 90% of people I've recommended this game to; it's just too much.

silver1surfer69

I do not agree. Pvp is very good and usefull to show the current combat system from many and very different perspectives. Pve is mor one sided (one sided is the wrong word, but in that sense) imo. PvP is the prooving ground for the combaat system imo.

Eliran

Lost cause, been called many times by many here including here.

Developers don't seems to care at all, aka why so many people I know left the game as they never PVP and their class is only useful in PVP.

OolongSnakeTea

They made battlespirit for a reason after all...

merpins

OolongSnakeTea wrote: »

They made battlespirit for a reason after all...

Battle Spirit is just a bandaid, though.

Twohothardware

The only way you're ever going to actually balance PvP is if they go back to hard caps on stats. As long as you can have 40k health, 8000 weapon damage, and join a zerg group of 12 with dedicated 50k health healers PvP is never going to be balanced. Just enjoy it for what it is.

merpins

Twohothardware wrote: »

The only way you're ever going to actually balance PvP is if they go back to hard caps on stats. As long as you can have 40k health, 8000 weapon damage, and join a zerg group of 12 with dedicated 50k health healers PvP is never going to be balanced. Just enjoy it for what it is.

This is about balancing both game modes. There are classes in PVP that are overperforming, while they're laughably underperforming in PVE. By separating the balance changes, they can balance PVE properly without destroying the balance of PVP. And vice verse. Take Warden for example. Right now it's very powerful in PVP, but in PVE, it's one of the weakest classes. They can't buff it, or else it will make PVP worse. But they can't nerf it, because then it will make PVE worse. This is a problem perpetuated by having the game be balanced this way. PVP may never be perfect, but at least it will be able to be balanced better than now if they can nerf problems without nuking PVE

Necrotech_Master

merpins wrote: »

Necrotech_Master wrote: »

merpins wrote: »

sneakymitchell wrote: »

Hard to do even with current battle spirit. It’s hard to balance when characters can be powerful with one set and weaker with another.

boi_anachronism_ wrote: »

It is, i think a lot harder to do properly then we realize. That said it still needs to be done. Im a blade main in pve content, I dont pvp with him at all. There are constant calls to nerf it because of pvp because in that situation its extremely strong. Problem is even now its absolute dirt in 12 man pve. Its pretty much only strong in pvp. They cant possibly buff it for pve without making it out of control op for pvp and thats pretty depressing.

It's going to be a front-loaded endeavor, that's for sure. They need to remove battle spirit and implement a system where PVP follows different balancing game logic. For example, while in PVP, some sets might have different effects, same with some skills. This would mean skills that are in classes that are only useful in PVP would be able to be remade for PVE without changing the PVP skills. Same with some PVE skills for PVP. Same with sets.

Again, this is front loaded. It will be difficult to do, but once it's implemented, it's much less of an issue. Once the system is in place, it's just balancing after all. But it's something that absolutely needs to be done.

And they might be working on it already! We don't know. But one thing is for sure, if they are working on it or are planning on doing something like this, they need to let us know ASAP. It doesn't need to be a secret or a surprise for later. Just knowing they're planning on it will bring a lot of people back to the game, guaranteed.

if skills and gear had completely different effects in pvp, i would frankly just stop pvping, not to mention its basically going to duplicate every piece of set gear to have a pve and pvp effect, how about you try doing that for all 600+ gear sets in eso (not to mention a few of the gear sets that are already geared specifically for pvp and dont work in pve such as rallying cry, viscous death, plaguebreak, just to name a few)

i actually hate other games for doing this to pvp, it makes it significantly harder to get into or understand because every single freaking thing has a "in pvp" toggle to know what your item values would be in a pvp scenario, feels like you have to learn a second game

pvp in here is quite different than pve, but generally mechanics wise you equip set X, Y, Z, you know it will function the same in pve and pvp, it will just do less dmg in pvp because of battle spirit

PVE and PVP needs separate balancing. There are class, weapon, and guild skills that are only useful in PVP. It's less of an issue the other way though, as the majority of PVE skills work fine in PVP, as intended.

Sets aren't a big issue, and for the most part won't need this treatment, and with so many sets, I don't really think it's necessary to go with this treatment. So you're probably right when it comes to sets, but some skills could have PVP and PVE toggles.

What makes ESO hard to get in to is not how complicated combat is for PVE or PVP. It's the sheer amount of content the game has. At least, that's been the reason I've gotten from 90% of people I've recommended this game to; it's just too much.

even if it was just skills that were done that way, it would still completely turn me off from pvp

if i say take surprise attack on a NB, i know what the attack does, and it functions the same regardless where your using it

battle spirit is already adjusting the dmg output from it, and if you changed the skill to function differently in pvp, then its not the same skill

sure you could give every skill a conditional "while battle spirit is active" or not active effect (such as rally cry), but again that would be changing the functionality of the skill as it is today

and if that were done, i would be done with pvp, im not going to completely re-learn the game for pvp because everything has different functionality in pvp

Lags

boi_anachronism_ wrote: »

It is, i think a lot harder to do properly then we realize. That said it still needs to be done. Im a blade main in pve content, I dont pvp with him at all. There are constant calls to nerf it because of pvp because in that situation its extremely strong. Problem is even now its absolute dirt in 12 man pve. Its pretty much only strong in pvp. They cant possibly buff it for pve without making it out of control op for pvp and thats pretty depressing.

i dont think it is at all. Guild wars 2 has done it always and the balance in that mmo turns out good. They balance open world pvp, bgs, and pve, separately, and skills can be slightly different depending on what you do. In eso that would be sets as well. I think they reason they do this is because anyone with any sense can see in games like these pvp and pve are vastly different.

Lags

Necrotech_Master wrote: »

merpins wrote: »

Necrotech_Master wrote: »

merpins wrote: »

sneakymitchell wrote: »

Hard to do even with current battle spirit. It’s hard to balance when characters can be powerful with one set and weaker with another.

boi_anachronism_ wrote: »

It is, i think a lot harder to do properly then we realize. That said it still needs to be done. Im a blade main in pve content, I dont pvp with him at all. There are constant calls to nerf it because of pvp because in that situation its extremely strong. Problem is even now its absolute dirt in 12 man pve. Its pretty much only strong in pvp. They cant possibly buff it for pve without making it out of control op for pvp and thats pretty depressing.

It's going to be a front-loaded endeavor, that's for sure. They need to remove battle spirit and implement a system where PVP follows different balancing game logic. For example, while in PVP, some sets might have different effects, same with some skills. This would mean skills that are in classes that are only useful in PVP would be able to be remade for PVE without changing the PVP skills. Same with some PVE skills for PVP. Same with sets.

Again, this is front loaded. It will be difficult to do, but once it's implemented, it's much less of an issue. Once the system is in place, it's just balancing after all. But it's something that absolutely needs to be done.

And they might be working on it already! We don't know. But one thing is for sure, if they are working on it or are planning on doing something like this, they need to let us know ASAP. It doesn't need to be a secret or a surprise for later. Just knowing they're planning on it will bring a lot of people back to the game, guaranteed.

if skills and gear had completely different effects in pvp, i would frankly just stop pvping, not to mention its basically going to duplicate every piece of set gear to have a pve and pvp effect, how about you try doing that for all 600+ gear sets in eso (not to mention a few of the gear sets that are already geared specifically for pvp and dont work in pve such as rallying cry, viscous death, plaguebreak, just to name a few)

i actually hate other games for doing this to pvp, it makes it significantly harder to get into or understand because every single freaking thing has a "in pvp" toggle to know what your item values would be in a pvp scenario, feels like you have to learn a second game

pvp in here is quite different than pve, but generally mechanics wise you equip set X, Y, Z, you know it will function the same in pve and pvp, it will just do less dmg in pvp because of battle spirit

PVE and PVP needs separate balancing. There are class, weapon, and guild skills that are only useful in PVP. It's less of an issue the other way though, as the majority of PVE skills work fine in PVP, as intended.

Sets aren't a big issue, and for the most part won't need this treatment, and with so many sets, I don't really think it's necessary to go with this treatment. So you're probably right when it comes to sets, but some skills could have PVP and PVE toggles.

What makes ESO hard to get in to is not how complicated combat is for PVE or PVP. It's the sheer amount of content the game has. At least, that's been the reason I've gotten from 90% of people I've recommended this game to; it's just too much.

even if it was just skills that were done that way, it would still completely turn me off from pvp

if i say take surprise attack on a NB, i know what the attack does, and it functions the same regardless where your using it

battle spirit is already adjusting the dmg output from it, and if you changed the skill to function differently in pvp, then its not the same skill

sure you could give every skill a conditional "while battle spirit is active" or not active effect (such as rally cry), but again that would be changing the functionality of the skill as it is today

and if that were done, i would be done with pvp, im not going to completely re-learn the game for pvp because everything has different functionality in pvp

re learn the game? players never cease to amaze me on the forums. So when they added the arcanist did you just not touch it because you had to learn something? I think you're vastly, vastly, over thinking this. Balancing certain skills and sets this way, that overperform in pvp or pve, only serves to improve balance. Like, thats it. If you have to relearn a couple things and you arent willing to do that then you are in the extreme minority.

Dr_Con

boi_anachronism_ wrote: »

It is, i think a lot harder to do properly then we realize.

👏BATTLE👏SPIRIT👏

They're able to disable certain sets from being active in certain zones, they should be able to transform sets to behaving differently under this same logic by doing a disable check. We could start to see certain sets transformed into having different abilities in PVP zones if they do this.

on the edge of class/weapon/guild abilities overperforming in PVP vs PVE and vice versa, they have battle spirit.

boi_anachronism_

Dr_Con wrote: »

boi_anachronism_ wrote: »

It is, i think a lot harder to do properly then we realize.

👏BATTLE👏SPIRIT👏

They're able to disable certain sets from being active in certain zones, they should be able to transform sets to behaving differently under this same logic by doing a disable check. We could start to see certain sets transformed into having different abilities in PVP zones if they do this.

on the edge of class/weapon/guild abilities overperforming in PVP vs PVE and vice versa, they have battle spirit.

My dude you are misinterpreting what im saying. Im not talking about the theory behind it. Im talking about the practical work of going through every class, every skill line, every skill, every set and rebalancing it individually and then recoding it. That not a small ask. I mean, how many sets we got in game now?

Lags

boi_anachronism_ wrote: »

Dr_Con wrote: »

boi_anachronism_ wrote: »

It is, i think a lot harder to do properly then we realize.

👏BATTLE👏SPIRIT👏

They're able to disable certain sets from being active in certain zones, they should be able to transform sets to behaving differently under this same logic by doing a disable check. We could start to see certain sets transformed into having different abilities in PVP zones if they do this.

on the edge of class/weapon/guild abilities overperforming in PVP vs PVE and vice versa, they have battle spirit.

My dude you are misinterpreting what im saying. Im not talking about the theory behind it. Im talking about the practical work of going through every class, every skill line, every skill, every set and rebalancing it individually and then recoding it. That not a small ask. I mean, how many sets we got in game now?

doesnt have to be all. and it should have been something they started with a long time ago. and then continued moving forward. most sets are fine in pvp and pve, or really just useless. Its the broken ones they add in, and the ones they dont because it will impact either pvp or pve negatively.

AlterBlika

They could just add conditions for skills if we have battle spirit buff. Ofc it would take to balance everything in the game so I doubt they would care

Ragnarok0130

This!!! We need PVE and PVP separately. PVP and PVE groups have very different demands and requirements when it comes to how skills and buffs work so the only workable solution is to balance them seperately.

Necrotech_Master

Lags wrote: »

Necrotech_Master wrote: »

merpins wrote: »

Necrotech_Master wrote: »

merpins wrote: »

sneakymitchell wrote: »

Hard to do even with current battle spirit. It’s hard to balance when characters can be powerful with one set and weaker with another.

boi_anachronism_ wrote: »

It is, i think a lot harder to do properly then we realize. That said it still needs to be done. Im a blade main in pve content, I dont pvp with him at all. There are constant calls to nerf it because of pvp because in that situation its extremely strong. Problem is even now its absolute dirt in 12 man pve. Its pretty much only strong in pvp. They cant possibly buff it for pve without making it out of control op for pvp and thats pretty depressing.

It's going to be a front-loaded endeavor, that's for sure. They need to remove battle spirit and implement a system where PVP follows different balancing game logic. For example, while in PVP, some sets might have different effects, same with some skills. This would mean skills that are in classes that are only useful in PVP would be able to be remade for PVE without changing the PVP skills. Same with some PVE skills for PVP. Same with sets.

Again, this is front loaded. It will be difficult to do, but once it's implemented, it's much less of an issue. Once the system is in place, it's just balancing after all. But it's something that absolutely needs to be done.

And they might be working on it already! We don't know. But one thing is for sure, if they are working on it or are planning on doing something like this, they need to let us know ASAP. It doesn't need to be a secret or a surprise for later. Just knowing they're planning on it will bring a lot of people back to the game, guaranteed.

if skills and gear had completely different effects in pvp, i would frankly just stop pvping, not to mention its basically going to duplicate every piece of set gear to have a pve and pvp effect, how about you try doing that for all 600+ gear sets in eso (not to mention a few of the gear sets that are already geared specifically for pvp and dont work in pve such as rallying cry, viscous death, plaguebreak, just to name a few)

i actually hate other games for doing this to pvp, it makes it significantly harder to get into or understand because every single freaking thing has a "in pvp" toggle to know what your item values would be in a pvp scenario, feels like you have to learn a second game

pvp in here is quite different than pve, but generally mechanics wise you equip set X, Y, Z, you know it will function the same in pve and pvp, it will just do less dmg in pvp because of battle spirit

PVE and PVP needs separate balancing. There are class, weapon, and guild skills that are only useful in PVP. It's less of an issue the other way though, as the majority of PVE skills work fine in PVP, as intended.

Sets aren't a big issue, and for the most part won't need this treatment, and with so many sets, I don't really think it's necessary to go with this treatment. So you're probably right when it comes to sets, but some skills could have PVP and PVE toggles.

What makes ESO hard to get in to is not how complicated combat is for PVE or PVP. It's the sheer amount of content the game has. At least, that's been the reason I've gotten from 90% of people I've recommended this game to; it's just too much.

even if it was just skills that were done that way, it would still completely turn me off from pvp

if i say take surprise attack on a NB, i know what the attack does, and it functions the same regardless where your using it

battle spirit is already adjusting the dmg output from it, and if you changed the skill to function differently in pvp, then its not the same skill

sure you could give every skill a conditional "while battle spirit is active" or not active effect (such as rally cry), but again that would be changing the functionality of the skill as it is today

and if that were done, i would be done with pvp, im not going to completely re-learn the game for pvp because everything has different functionality in pvp

re learn the game? players never cease to amaze me on the forums. So when they added the arcanist did you just not touch it because you had to learn something? I think you're vastly, vastly, over thinking this. Balancing certain skills and sets this way, that overperform in pvp or pve, only serves to improve balance. Like, thats it. If you have to relearn a couple things and you arent willing to do that then you are in the extreme minority.

is it a little bit of an exaggeration? maybe, but i have seen games where skills have a completely different function/effect depending on if its pvp or pve, not just stat modifications

i like having a build that works reasonably well in both, because the skills do function the same, i dont want to have to make a separate build for each activity

and yes i know its not the most effective way to pvp to do that, but still works fine for me (my NB has been both emp at one time and is alliance rank 50 using a now mostly 4 year old build)

Jaimeh

Lykeion wrote: »

100% agree with this. pve NB (especially Stamblade) has been getting weaker and weaker for at least the last three updates. All the good NB players I know have moved on to stronger classes, like Arcanist or DK, if they don't quit. At the moment, I can't find a single NB main in any of my trial teams. They're all gone. Disappointed as hell. Yet the strength of blade in pvp has made it difficult to buff it.

This predicament is the result of zos's longstanding refusal to balance pve and pvp separately. Plenty of other mmorpgs use separate balances for pve and pvp, and for a TESO-sized game, a single Battle Spirit is not enough.

Agreed ^ StamNB was my main DPS class and it hasn't been competitive in years, and it's because of PvP. It started ever since they changed SA and has gone downhill since then... We've provided feedback update after update, and they just keep gutting the spec, to the point you never see them anymore in trials (no, really, check ESO logs of the past 2 years). I don't know who does the balancing for NBs but it's like they've completely forgotten some of us like to play stamNB in PvE, it's really absurd.

Elvenheart

Hmmmm…they haven’t done it the 999,999 other times it’s been asked, but maybe this time will be different 🤣

boi_anachronism_

Lags wrote: »

boi_anachronism_ wrote: »

Dr_Con wrote: »

boi_anachronism_ wrote: »

It is, i think a lot harder to do properly then we realize.

👏BATTLE👏SPIRIT👏

They're able to disable certain sets from being active in certain zones, they should be able to transform sets to behaving differently under this same logic by doing a disable check. We could start to see certain sets transformed into having different abilities in PVP zones if they do this.

on the edge of class/weapon/guild abilities overperforming in PVP vs PVE and vice versa, they have battle spirit.

My dude you are misinterpreting what im saying. Im not talking about the theory behind it. Im talking about the practical work of going through every class, every skill line, every skill, every set and rebalancing it individually and then recoding it. That not a small ask. I mean, how many sets we got in game now?

doesnt have to be all. and it should have been something they started with a long time ago. and then continued moving forward. most sets are fine in pvp and pve, or really just useless. Its the broken ones they add in, and the ones they dont because it will impact either pvp or pve negatively.

Yeah but its not just sets that are totally unbalanced. Just doing sets wouldnt solve the problem. Look at dk with corrosive. Look at blades. Their skills are very strong in pvp and trash in pve. How do you buff them for pve without creating an insanely unbalanced pvp meta. Pvp is a big reason things get nerfed and i dont disagree based on the current situation but it harms the viability of many classes for pve because they can't buff them meaningdully without affecting pvp in a potentially really bad way. Those are just 2 egregious examples. Particularly with blades.

Four_Fingers

Simple obtain everything you need fo PvP by PvP in Cyro - base sets, mythics, monster sets skills, etc.
Earn everything you need for PvE by doing PvE.
Then the items can be balanced and named separately.
PvP players won't have to PvE and PvE players won't have to PvP.
They won't do this because they want players to try both PvE and PvP.

gariondavey

Four_Fingers wrote: »

Simple obtain everything you need fo PvP by PvP in Cyro - base sets, mythics, monster sets skills, etc.
Earn everything you need for PvE by doing PvE.
Then the items can be balanced and named separately.
PvP players won't have to PvE and PvE players won't have to PvP.
They won't do this because they want players to try both PvE and PvP.

Some of the best pvp sets for highly coordinated group play are from dlc dungeons and trials

Four_Fingers

gariondavey wrote: »

Four_Fingers wrote: »

Simple obtain everything you need fo PvP by PvP in Cyro - base sets, mythics, monster sets skills, etc.
Earn everything you need for PvE by doing PvE.
Then the items can be balanced and named separately.
PvP players won't have to PvE and PvE players won't have to PvP.
They won't do this because they want players to try both PvE and PvP.

Some of the best pvp sets for highly coordinated group play are from dlc dungeons and trials

That would have to change to the best sets for PvP groups are only available by playing PvP or events in Cyrodiil.

PvE sets would be all changed to not work or be as effective in PvP.

Yes you would have to change builds switching between PvP and PvE, but that is the price you pay to balance them separately.

But we have the armory now so not that big of an issue other than obtaining different builds.

ZOS has shown they can flag what sets work in PvP back when they disabled many during testing.

Won't happen as ZOS won't put the work in for PvP.

gariondavey

Four_Fingers wrote: »

gariondavey wrote: »

Four_Fingers wrote: »

Simple obtain everything you need fo PvP by PvP in Cyro - base sets, mythics, monster sets skills, etc.
Earn everything you need for PvE by doing PvE.
Then the items can be balanced and named separately.
PvP players won't have to PvE and PvE players won't have to PvP.
They won't do this because they want players to try both PvE and PvP.

Some of the best pvp sets for highly coordinated group play are from dlc dungeons and trials

That would have to change to the best sets for PvP groups are only available by playing PvP or events in Cyrodiil.

PvE sets would be all changed to not work or be as effective in PvP.

Yes you would have to change builds switching between PvP and PvE, but that is the price you pay to balance them separately.

But we have the armory now so not that big of an issue other than obtaining different builds.

ZOS has shown they can flag what sets work in PvP back when they disabled many during testing.

Won't happen as ZOS won't put the work in for PvP.

That's how they help sell dungeon dlc and chapters though. A continuous rotation of new sets and mythic that are bis then nerfed as newer sets come out