Personally it just feels like if you're not running the current meta, whether it's the Vate/Maarselok/Dragons appetite/Masters DW or the bomber meta, you're going to struggle with getting kills or even having a fair chance in Cyro. Not to mention, everyone is a tank anymore, lol, Cyro would be more enjoyable if there was more variety in fights and the sets but meta builds are always going to be a thing

IZZEFlameLash wrote: »

xFocused wrote: »

Personally it just feels like if you're not running the current meta, whether it's the Vate/Maarselok/Dragons appetite/Masters DW or the bomber meta, you're going to struggle with getting kills or even having a fair chance in Cyro. Not to mention, everyone is a tank anymore, lol, Cyro would be more enjoyable if there was more variety in fights and the sets but meta builds are always going to be a thing

Yeah, my meta sorc secures kill a lot faster than my off-meta DK lol.

Easily. I’ve tried some “off meta” sets on my Warden and would like to try a Magplar build but lately it feels like it’s a waste of time lol, I understand meta is going to always exist but can the other sets and have a chance at least?

loosej wrote: »

I'm actually quite happy this became the new meta. I agree it's gotten a bit predictable, and predictable can get boring after some time. But at least it seems to have reduced the amount of unkillable tanks in Cyro. Everyone hitting with a wet noodle and nobody dying was the real "disgusting" no-skill meta. Despite what a lot of people think, running Maarselok/Vateshran/Masters successfully requires at least a bit of skill. If you put a newbie with that combo against an experienced player in no-proc sets, the beams alone won't be enough for the first player to get the upper hand.

I would argue that when those builds are so prevalent that every fight has Vate masters usage, it eventually has nothing to do with "needing" skill to finish the fight, you just need enough vate masters users bringing free damage and you will win the confrontation.

It's to the level of dark convergence on launch, where every fight has it and there's multiple users of it in every fight. So eventually whichever side has bigger numbers of cheese users will win.

the most depressing PVP game of all time battleground is broken, nothing is possible anymore, nothing holds anymore, less and less construction possible, cold doesn't do anything in "weapon of destruction" yet? lol...

The game is now for arcanists.

There are only deaths that are really bizarre, duels are increasingly incomprehensible and it's becoming more and more impossible to have one, so quickly you die, it's a bit like Call of Duty in the end, you don't understand what's going on anymore, I've never seen a pvp game end in such a state and zenimax remains passive and ignores feedback...

Ahk1lleez wrote: »

As much as I'm inclined to agree that the "meta" needs to change....I think we have a much different idea of what META looks like. Single target DOT pressure in open world Cyrodiil means next to nothing when you're playing outnumbered. They're gonna get outside heals and you won't bring anyone down. The pvp this game was built around relies heavily on burst damage. DOT's are more of a liability than anything.

Complaining about DOT's means you're either playing BG's, dueling, or trying to play Cyrodiil in a manner that it was not meant to be played (1vX). I can tell you that the vast majority of 1vXers are NOT running single target DOT builds. Dying to them means you have to build better or get better in the skill department.

You are contradicting yourself!
You say that Single target DOT pressure in open world Cyrodiil means next to nothing when you're playing outnumbered, so you rate them only from an outnumbered(1vX, smallscalevX or ballgroupvX) perspective, that you say yourself Cyrodiil was not meant to be played from this perspective(1vX).
Master dw+Vat destro+Maarselok+DA/WoF/Mara is Meta not only for 1v1 or Xv1 but also for 2v2, smallscalevsmallscale, Xv2/smallscale or to focuss one player in a ZergvZerg and even 1/2/3/4vX they are usefull to focuss one player when he is too tanky/ reacts too fast to get burstet down and you arent pressured too hard. Only for fights with ballgroup it seems useless. And it is only these sets and a few other proc Sets DoTs that are the problem and people complain about, not about Dot skills.
And it is not like every player getting in a 1vX situation is an arrogant Elitist thinking he is the
center of the world/the best player on his server, other players are too bad to be his teammates and every enemy player is only existing to be his prey and having fun running around towers for hours.
There usually are no PuGs and private Groups dont invite randoms, so when you type LFG in zone chat or ask a group if you can join nobody answers. When you are not member of a PvP guild or regular group of friends and enter Cyrodiil, you have to play alone and every enemy group will Xv1 attack you on sight even/especially when you clearly dont want to fight 1vX.

I have developed an off-meta warden bow build that’s doing well in bgs.

😊

Skilled nbs still get me with incap/merciless/spam concealed when my health isn’t topped off, but that’s unavoidable if you don’t want to play a tankturd.

She runs around pew pewing and getting a decent number of kills.

OtarTheMad wrote: »

Part of the problem could literally just be that there are too many sets in the game. I love theorycrafting so it’s a bit different for me, I like to try to make sets that don’t make sense work well or at least passable and fun.

The issue is that all of that is time consuming. Not everyone has hours upon hours and months upon months to go through different set combos to see if they work well together. It’s easier to just go to YouTube or where a streamer is and see if their build is good and basically copy it and conform it to your playstyle. That takes maybe a day or two, much easier.

So when something becomes overpowered or over-performs or is just kind of strong it is amplified because you’ll have so many others just taking that build and running it.

The meta chasers definitely exacerbate the issue, for sure. But there's more to it than just that. As a theorycrafter myself, I am always trying different sets, to see what I can make work, the issue is that everything either takes drastically more work to line up, that even if it performs better, its not worth running due to the effort involved, or it is just flat out significantly, objectively worse than a meta set-up.

Something that would help a lot imo would be to reduce the downsides and improve the benefits of light armor passives to make that armor type more appealing to work with as an alternative to medium armor considering its huge built in downside significantly lower mitigation values. Doing this would have the benefit of providing a soft check on the current tank meta, as more people will have more light armor pieces slotted (reducing their armor values), and will have more natural pen and crit chance to help even more against the tanks.

If I were to adjust light armor, I'd make the following 2 changes:
- First would be to remove the bonus damage taken from martial (stamina) attacks, it shouldn't have been given this downside since the significantly lower armor value means that you're naturally taking more damage from all sources already.
- Second would be to change the reduced cost of bash attacks (which medium armor has) to increased healing done so that light armor matches medium armor for healing due to medium armors bonus to weapon/spell damage.

This would allow light armor to be an alternative to medium armor that doesn't drop your base healing compared to running medium armor and doesn't compound the issue of low armor values with the additional martial damage taken making anyone wearing it far too squishy unless the light armor set itself is defensive in nature (see RC/buffer of swift/etc).

Turtle_Bot wrote: »

OtarTheMad wrote: »

Part of the problem could literally just be that there are too many sets in the game. I love theorycrafting so it’s a bit different for me, I like to try to make sets that don’t make sense work well or at least passable and fun.

The issue is that all of that is time consuming. Not everyone has hours upon hours and months upon months to go through different set combos to see if they work well together. It’s easier to just go to YouTube or where a streamer is and see if their build is good and basically copy it and conform it to your playstyle. That takes maybe a day or two, much easier.

So when something becomes overpowered or over-performs or is just kind of strong it is amplified because you’ll have so many others just taking that build and running it.

The meta chasers definitely exacerbate the issue, for sure. But there's more to it than just that. As a theorycrafter myself, I am always trying different sets, to see what I can make work, the issue is that everything either takes drastically more work to line up, that even if it performs better, its not worth running due to the effort involved, or it is just flat out significantly, objectively worse than a meta set-up.

Something that would help a lot imo would be to reduce the downsides and improve the benefits of light armor passives to make that armor type more appealing to work with as an alternative to medium armor considering its huge built in downside significantly lower mitigation values. Doing this would have the benefit of providing a soft check on the current tank meta, as more people will have more light armor pieces slotted (reducing their armor values), and will have more natural pen and crit chance to help even more against the tanks.

If I were to adjust light armor, I'd make the following 2 changes:
- First would be to remove the bonus damage taken from martial (stamina) attacks, it shouldn't have been given this downside since the significantly lower armor value means that you're naturally taking more damage from all sources already.
- Second would be to change the reduced cost of bash attacks (which medium armor has) to increased healing done so that light armor matches medium armor for healing due to medium armors bonus to weapon/spell damage.

This would allow light armor to be an alternative to medium armor that doesn't drop your base healing compared to running medium armor and doesn't compound the issue of low armor values with the additional martial damage taken making anyone wearing it far too squishy unless the light armor set itself is defensive in nature (see RC/buffer of swift/etc).

It is quite funny how they thought giving physical damage penalty was good for light armor. On top of already meagre armor value. Now, it is an armor weight not worn by anyone but NB ganker basically. Why the devs felt the need to double the penalties with damage taken is beyond me. I support this light armor change. As is, almost all armor weights are medium and heavy with medium being the least penalized weight out of all in terms of where it hurts the most.

SandandStars wrote: »

nerfs to light armor were nerfs to magsorc

more nerfs to magsorc incoming

I'm just sitting here waiting for/expecting it at this stage with how sorc has been treated over the past 5 years

Too many sorcs running around currently because of exactly the perma negate bug and no other reason. Can't have sorcs be that strong, gotta nerf the [snip] out of them, U35 style (despite it being an over-abused bug on 1 previously niche, PvP focused ultimate and not the class itself being why they are everywhere).

It's a shame, because since magblade was updated last year (2022), magsorc (and petless magsorc in particular) is the longest running class without a proper update/rework to bring it into modern ESO out of all of the classes/specs, but this bug is going to ensure that it will not happen anytime soon, or even in the medium term.