ESO_player123 wrote: »

GuardianStriker wrote: »

- the suggestion was here

What you guys think?

You asked when other players think. The players are answering. I understand that you are upset that your idea is not liked by others, but the players are doing exactly what you asked them to do - telling what they are thinking.
And my answer was also "no".

No, I'm more concerned, and disappointed over the people who glance over more than half the post just because I mentioned a game, just for pure example, or they don't take into account on the other side of the argument. There's a fine line between "upset" and "disappointed".

If you would take more time to read more thoroughly, you can see that I am replying more reasonably to most of everyone's thoughts about the matter and they have come up with good counter arguments, which I also reasonably reply with my own. Sometimes in defeat.

Don't assume someone's emotion and reason for said emotion when you don't even know half of the story my friend. Take this advice as you will, but comprehension is an important skill to have.

As someone who just started in July and is about 600CP, I feel the only 'confusion' about CP points (once you get to start being able to use them) is simply the format they are in.

The trees are gorgeous, but, to me, rather unintuitive. You have the three trees, and then you have sub trees, and then you have some perks that aren't in the tree you would think, and trying to remember what each perk is, and where it is on each tree.

If they offered a more straightforward version of the CP trees (not getting rid of the old, but rather just offering a toggle so people can just get straightforward lines like the regular skill lines are), I feel that a great deal of confusion would disappear.

However, the CP themselves are just more skill points that can only be used in certain skill trees.

Personally, if 'squishing' the numbers wouldn't change anything, my question is, why do it? Basically, if it ain't broke, don't fix it.

So, if the 'new' number is 500 and the old was 500,000, but they are effectively the same, there is no reason to upset a portion of the playerbase and devoting resources to squishing the numbers.

(and I say this as someone who isn't fond of 'big numbers' To me, they are meaningless)

GuardianStriker wrote: »

boi_anachronism_ wrote: »

inf.toniceb17_ESO wrote: »

It's amazing how many people didn't even bother to read OP's post.
On topic: Yes, it is convoluted as hell and needs simplification badly and IMO more than just level squishing. It is not made for normal people. Nerds like me may understand it but good luck explaining how it works to an average Vasya who just want to relax for a couple hours after work. My partner is such a person and let me tell you it's quite an eye opening experience. Small things like these are the reason why people don't stick around. Games, or any software for that matter, gotta to be easy to understand and simple to use.

No im pretty sure i did. I just didnt agree. My issues are simple and posted above. Caps like that take away any sense of achievement, kind of a reminder of the time ive put in and how far ive gotten, even if it is somewhat arbitrary. Yes i can only slot 4 skills but i like being able to swap my perks around whenever i want, especially with the green tree which should pretty much all just be passives anyway. Yeah cp could be simplified but i definitely dont want them to change the cap.

Again, the lowered cap would not make much of a difference, and whenever I see someone say the "I like seeing numbers go up" excuse, I find that to be a weird way for someone to get their dopamine fix. I find it akin to jiggling shiny keys in a child's face. Does anyone really want to be like that, unironically? Personally, I wouldn't as that would leave any sane human being feeling slighted. I just don't get the appeal and it just feels like people like that are just starting drama for no reason, and are looking for petty reasons to complain, when they ignore the real issues that plague ESO.

Even people complained about this sort of thing happening in WoW, I'm sorry. But I'm just gonna label that as simple "winging" than "complaining". Even the people who said they like seeing numbers go up, have stated that "mechanically", this affects nothing in the game when you go past 1400 CP. Heck, I'm doing just fine at around 800+ CP. It simply would make the game easier to understand and take in. Thus, more accessible to a wider crowd and ZOS can enjoy a higher player base, which is good for them, since it's a profitable tactic as well. No need to spend up to 10-15 minutes glossing over a wiki page, or making comparisons before even getting ready for a raid.

Paralyse wrote: »

I find it odd that someone would claim to be inspired by WoW yet somehow think the game had a maximum level of 210.

Level caps in WoW:

Classic - 60; BC - 70; LK - 80; Cata - 85; MoP - 90; WoD - 100; Legion - 110; BfA - 120
SL - 60 (120 was changed to 50); DF (current)- 70

I didn't play WoW that much. Heck, I never played it two decades ago. I just now started on it a few months ago, so I have no experience. I'm just going by what people have said in chat, as I played the game, so that's my bad for misremembering.

So what you are effectively saying is that you don't understand people enjoying a visual sense of progression? Psychologically most people tend to enjoy that and want it. Its human nature to want to have a way to be reminded of the time we put in to get there and get a personal sense of achievement and accomplishment from it.. Its not rocket science here. Same thing as titles from achievements. In reality they have even less effect on the game. Ultimately its arbitrary. Cp does actually affect something tangible in the game, it affects my eso bank since without the additional points it costs me every single time i swap skills. Im an end game raider. I do that a lot. Constantly. The further you go, the more builds and styles of play you get into. I have 8 toons and upwards of 25 builds between supports, support dps, tanks, full damage, various pvp builds, arena builds, you name it. The cost to shift stuff i needed on a weekly would be eye watering. As it is i couldnt even begin to count the amount of times i swap skills in my green cp tree.

Factually a cp squish is not necessary to streamline it. There are other options.

This isnt a "real" issue that plagues eso. Its one that urks you as is pretty evident by the responses. The real issues plaguing eso are bugs, power imbalance, massive difficulty gaps between levels of content, a serious lack of a decent tutorial especially for new tanks, the pvp/pve balancing being constantly at odds, over monetization, a lack of good rewards for all levels and types of content achievements.... I really could go on at great length about the actual issues of the game. This is basically the absolute bottom of the bin. You post about something on the message boards you are going to get feedback, you may like it and you may not. No need to be dramatic or condescending when people have different opinions then you.

GuardianStriker wrote: »

kargen27 wrote: »

GuardianStriker wrote: »

kargen27 wrote: »

"Again, the lowered cap would not make much of a difference, and whenever I see someone say the "I like seeing numbers go up" excuse, I find that to be a weird way for someone to get their dopamine fix. I find it akin to jiggling shiny keys in a child's face. Does anyone really want to be like that, unironically? Personally, I wouldn't as that would leave any sane human being feeling slighted. I just don't get the appeal and it just feels like people like that are just starting drama for no reason, and are looking for petty reasons to complain, when they ignore the real issues that plague ESO."

Doesn't matter why they like the levels. What matters is they do like seeing the numbers go up and your idea takes that away for what you say is an insignificant change to how the game would work. So why take something away from people that enjoy that something?
It would be a time saver for new players maybe. That would be assuming ZoS doesn't change the numbers it takes to gain CP levels. If the amount of CP needed was decreased to 1/5 of what is currently needed I would expect it to take five times as much experience to go up one point.
If ZoS decided not to increase the experience needed for each CP that would mean much faster leveling for new players. Much faster is usually not good for an MMO though. The game needs players repeating content and trying a variety of content to keep the game population at a healthy level. The current CP system lends to that by giving players something to chase.
The idea would only be beneficial to new players and that benefit would be for a short time. So again why take something away players enjoy for little to no real benefit to the game?

I can only sigh in defeat from this statement, because, and I say this loosely, a bit comparable to drugs. People like that sort of stuff, despite it not being beneficial in the long run. A short dopamine rush, that over time becomes a deep mind numbing mental fog. Soon as that's gone, they're back for more.

They like seeing numbers going up, just the same as people like their energy levels going up by binge drinking cups of coffee every morning. Unorthodox? Maybe, but not untrue. This might as well be my final reply.

You are railing against human nature. There was a study done with slot machines. One set had higher and more frequent payouts but no flashing lights or noises. The other set didn't pay as much or as often but when you won lights blinked, bells went off all that kind of fanfare. People preferred the fanfare to the payout. Turns out there is a reason for that and it is engrained into all of us. Kind of a semi-dormant instinct. The lights and noises do create a dopamine rush. That is for the most part unrelated to how people react to CP though.
CP falls more under a sense of progression than a dopamine rush. Both are a rewarding stimulus but beyond that aren't really the same thing. Even in our leisure activities most people prefer to feel something is being accomplished other than just enjoyment of the activity. ESO provides that through many game mechanisms CP being just one. For most people games are played for either the rush or the accomplishment sometimes both. A game that offers neither has a short life.

And again things that take away from how long a player might want to play the game hurts the game. CP as is gives players an easy way to diversify their builds depending on activities. The suggested change takes that away and by your own admission adds nothing to the game other than reducing time to max out CP.

We're not talking about gambling. We're talking about level progression. Nothing about progressing in champion points has any relation to slot machines, no matter how much you weave the manipulative human excitement factor into it. Which is already morally concerning now that I read this.

you brought up the dopamine rush. I countered with a study that directly related to how people react to a dopamine rush. That it involved gambling is an aside and not relevant. And I agree champion points have no relation to slot machines. I said that in the message you responded to. I said CP is about the progression not the dopamine rush. I provided an example of what a dopamine rush is and how people react as a part of my argument. A sense of progression is why some people enjoy getting more champion points even beyond them being useful.
And you still have not addressed how your idea takes away from some players who enjoy progression and gives nothing to the game. It comes down to your idea having the potential of being detrimental to the game and there is no reward for taking the risk. New players get accelerated XP for champion points and your idea only applies to new players so why change a system that is not broken.

kargen27 wrote: »

GuardianStriker wrote: »

kargen27 wrote: »

GuardianStriker wrote: »

kargen27 wrote: »

"Again, the lowered cap would not make much of a difference, and whenever I see someone say the "I like seeing numbers go up" excuse, I find that to be a weird way for someone to get their dopamine fix. I find it akin to jiggling shiny keys in a child's face. Does anyone really want to be like that, unironically? Personally, I wouldn't as that would leave any sane human being feeling slighted. I just don't get the appeal and it just feels like people like that are just starting drama for no reason, and are looking for petty reasons to complain, when they ignore the real issues that plague ESO."

Doesn't matter why they like the levels. What matters is they do like seeing the numbers go up and your idea takes that away for what you say is an insignificant change to how the game would work. So why take something away from people that enjoy that something?
It would be a time saver for new players maybe. That would be assuming ZoS doesn't change the numbers it takes to gain CP levels. If the amount of CP needed was decreased to 1/5 of what is currently needed I would expect it to take five times as much experience to go up one point.
If ZoS decided not to increase the experience needed for each CP that would mean much faster leveling for new players. Much faster is usually not good for an MMO though. The game needs players repeating content and trying a variety of content to keep the game population at a healthy level. The current CP system lends to that by giving players something to chase.
The idea would only be beneficial to new players and that benefit would be for a short time. So again why take something away players enjoy for little to no real benefit to the game?

I can only sigh in defeat from this statement, because, and I say this loosely, a bit comparable to drugs. People like that sort of stuff, despite it not being beneficial in the long run. A short dopamine rush, that over time becomes a deep mind numbing mental fog. Soon as that's gone, they're back for more.

They like seeing numbers going up, just the same as people like their energy levels going up by binge drinking cups of coffee every morning. Unorthodox? Maybe, but not untrue. This might as well be my final reply.

You are railing against human nature. There was a study done with slot machines. One set had higher and more frequent payouts but no flashing lights or noises. The other set didn't pay as much or as often but when you won lights blinked, bells went off all that kind of fanfare. People preferred the fanfare to the payout. Turns out there is a reason for that and it is engrained into all of us. Kind of a semi-dormant instinct. The lights and noises do create a dopamine rush. That is for the most part unrelated to how people react to CP though.
CP falls more under a sense of progression than a dopamine rush. Both are a rewarding stimulus but beyond that aren't really the same thing. Even in our leisure activities most people prefer to feel something is being accomplished other than just enjoyment of the activity. ESO provides that through many game mechanisms CP being just one. For most people games are played for either the rush or the accomplishment sometimes both. A game that offers neither has a short life.

And again things that take away from how long a player might want to play the game hurts the game. CP as is gives players an easy way to diversify their builds depending on activities. The suggested change takes that away and by your own admission adds nothing to the game other than reducing time to max out CP.

We're not talking about gambling. We're talking about level progression. Nothing about progressing in champion points has any relation to slot machines, no matter how much you weave the manipulative human excitement factor into it. Which is already morally concerning now that I read this.

you brought up the dopamine rush. I countered with a study that directly related to how people react to a dopamine rush. That it involved gambling is an aside and not relevant. And I agree champion points have no relation to slot machines. I said that in the message you responded to. I said CP is about the progression not the dopamine rush. I provided an example of what a dopamine rush is and how people react as a part of my argument. A sense of progression is why some people enjoy getting more champion points even beyond them being useful.
And you still have not addressed how your idea takes away from some players who enjoy progression and gives nothing to the game. It comes down to your idea having the potential of being detrimental to the game and there is no reward for taking the risk. New players get accelerated XP for champion points and your idea only applies to new players so why change a system that is not broken.

Because I simply don't get it. I can't really address how my idea takes away from some players who enjoy something that I find so unnecessary. It's such a miniscule amount of accomplishment, and when someone brought up saying "you can say the same about achievements", that was never my intention in saying achievements were the better solution. In fact, it's just the same sort of result. I'm simply only giving other options, and I have no idea why people are assuming things that I have not once said.

It makes no sense to me that such a non-powerful change, can cause people to see it as a quote on quote "DRASTIC" change, and everyone is all enflamed and they leave the game wielding pitchforks and torches. Just why? You still have everything, nothing has changed about that. It's just that most don't have to hurt their brains having to do stat comparisons by the thousands anymore. Really, that's it. It makes no sense for people to take such a drastic measure like leaving the game, over a change that doesn't effect them at all, and like I stated before, this so called "dopamine rush" is about as akin to having someone jiggle shiny keys in your face.

Do people really enjoy being mesmerized by jiggling keys? Something that is quite childish and belittling to the person witnessing it? That's what I'm getting at. Not that it matters not, because I have seen players where they'd see a change that they claim to be so awful, that they quit the game without even reading in detail about it, or worse still, not even playing it and experience for themselves. Then they always come back and they act like nothing has happened and continue playing the game like it's still the same. It has happened plenty of times before and it only proves that there's more to enjoying the game, than just seeing big numbers.

boi_anachronism_ wrote: »

" I find it akin to jiggling shiny keys in a child's face. Does anyone really want to be like that, unironically? Personally, I wouldn't as that would leave any sane human being feeling slighted."

Thats incredibly condescending. Im not sure how you don’t see that. There are plently on things that bug players for qol that would be great and make the player experience easier. If you were to poll the player base and ask if they would prefer an in game mini map option for console or a cp reconfiguration what do you think the response would be? This is a qol and there isnt one way to do it. The way you are purposing is going to make a lot of people very unhappy needlessly. As i said- there are ways to streamline it without creating a squish. Thats very one sided thinking. You say you are open to feedback but you seem stubbornly set that this is the only way to accomplish a more intuitive system.

Again you are also sidestepping the issue of what to do with the lack of cp points. Are we just going to nix entire segments of the tree? Will we have to pay 10x a day to move things around? How exactly is that supposed to work. I know you dont personally understand that people enjoy a sense of progression but the devs definitely understood it when they reconfigured it, its part of why they did it.

Do not confuse "comparison" with "condescending". Even if it's not orthodox, it don't mean it's condescending. This is just how I see it in my eyes and it's clear that I also included myself there. So whether you think that's condescending or not, matters not. Because I'm not excluding myself here in any way since I am self-aware that'd it also would make me slighted, and I know what I'm saying.

No, I am clearly not sidestepping because I already included your argument with my other quote. You're also clearly strawmanning, because I said nothing about nixing any segments of the tree. All I said in the original post, was that I wanted the costs lowered, with the power values remaining the same. That's it. So your issue with what to do with lack of CP points was already explained to you, and that was lowering the CP cap. There obviously would be no left over CP points if the cap was lowered, so you don't gain any. You would know how it's supposed to work if you read the post. Not to mention it would fix your issue of how expensive it costs to respec as well, when you don't have so many CPs spent into something you don't need anymore, for the moment.

Choose your words wisely and read more thoroughly before you comment, because your strawman and lack of comprehension already leaves you with a bad impression and I might as well ignore you entirely since you assume I'm being as you claim "dramatic", and that's also condescending enough as is.

Is the current system perfect? no, of course not but squiishing it would only manage to anger the players who have bothered to pour the time and effort into getting to a high CP level, instead it could do with a few tweaks

1: make the entire green tree passive and give the extra slots to red and blue, for a total of 6 slots each

2: buff up the slottable starts so that when picking what ones to use it's less "well this one is the least terrible" set and forget and more "oh wow, this one seems great" build apating to current situation.

3: adding in milestone rewards for every 300 CP levels you reach, think titles, skins, emotes, styles and eventally a mount if you manage to max it out, mostly as an incentive to help some people push though the over 2000 "dead" levels

boi_anachronism_ wrote: »

"

GuardianStriker wrote: »

boi_anachronism_ wrote: »

" I find it akin to jiggling shiny keys in a child's face. Does anyone really want to be like that, unironically? Personally, I wouldn't as that would leave any sane human being feeling slighted."

Thats incredibly condescending. Im not sure how you don’t see that. There are plently on things that bug players for qol that would be great and make the player experience easier. If you were to poll the player base and ask if they would prefer an in game mini map option for console or a cp reconfiguration what do you think the response would be? This is a qol and there isnt one way to do it. The way you are purposing is going to make a lot of people very unhappy needlessly. As i said- there are ways to streamline it without creating a squish. Thats very one sided thinking. You say you are open to feedback but you seem stubbornly set that this is the only way to accomplish a more intuitive system.

Again you are also sidestepping the issue of what to do with the lack of cp points. Are we just going to nix entire segments of the tree? Will we have to pay 10x a day to move things around? How exactly is that supposed to work. I know you dont personally understand that people enjoy a sense of progression but the devs definitely understood it when they reconfigured it, its part of why they did it.

Do not confuse "comparison" with "condescending". Even if it's not orthodox, it don't mean it's condescending. This is just how I see it in my eyes and it's clear that I also included myself there. So whether you think that's condescending or not, matters not. Because I'm not excluding myself here in any way since I am self-aware that'd it also would make me slighted, and I know what I'm saying.

No, I am clearly not sidestepping because I already included your argument with my other quote. You're also clearly strawmanning, because I said nothing about nixing any segments of the tree. All I said in the original post, was that I wanted the costs lowered, with the power values remaining the same. That's it. So your issue with what to do with lack of CP points was already explained to you, and that was lowering the CP cap. There obviously would be no left over CP points if the cap was lowered, so you don't gain any. You would know how it's supposed to work if you read the post. Not to mention it would fix your issue of how expensive it costs to respec as well, when you don't have so many CPs spent into something you don't need anymore, for the moment.

Choose your words wisely and read more thoroughly before you comment, because your strawman and lack of comprehension already leaves you with a bad impression and I might as well ignore you entirely since you assume I'm being as you claim "dramatic", and that's also condescending enough as is.

Wow. Im not condescending but.... id encourage you to read your own posts. That was about as condescending as you can possibly get. Im sorry your explanation was thoroughly convoluted and frankly it does absolutely nothing to streamline anything like as someone brought up- the fact that you need to put cp into skills you dont use to get ones you do. What is the point?

Let me be perfectly and completely clear here:

You not understanding how people find a sense of accomplishment doesnt invalidate it. In fact you not understanding anything doesnt invalidate it. People put a lot of time into it because it was of value to them. Period. It is natural and human to want that. I dont understand how you can possibly be this disconnected..

Yeah you're strawmanning. Ignoring.

notyuu wrote: »

Is the current system perfect? no, of course not but squiishing it would only manage to anger the players who have bothered to pour the time and effort into getting to a high CP level, instead it could do with a few tweaks

1: make the entire green tree passive and give the extra slots to red and blue, for a total of 6 slots each

2: buff up the slottable starts so that when picking what ones to use it's less "well this one is the least terrible" set and forget and more "oh wow, this one seems great" build apating to current situation.

3: adding in milestone rewards for every 300 CP levels you reach, think titles, skins, emotes, styles and eventally a mount if you manage to max it out, mostly as an incentive to help some people push though the over 2000 "dead" levels

Seems reasonable to me. I won't argue against that.

GuardianStriker wrote: »

boi_anachronism_ wrote: »

"

GuardianStriker wrote: »

boi_anachronism_ wrote: »

" I find it akin to jiggling shiny keys in a child's face. Does anyone really want to be like that, unironically? Personally, I wouldn't as that would leave any sane human being feeling slighted."

Thats incredibly condescending. Im not sure how you don’t see that. There are plently on things that bug players for qol that would be great and make the player experience easier. If you were to poll the player base and ask if they would prefer an in game mini map option for console or a cp reconfiguration what do you think the response would be? This is a qol and there isnt one way to do it. The way you are purposing is going to make a lot of people very unhappy needlessly. As i said- there are ways to streamline it without creating a squish. Thats very one sided thinking. You say you are open to feedback but you seem stubbornly set that this is the only way to accomplish a more intuitive system.

Again you are also sidestepping the issue of what to do with the lack of cp points. Are we just going to nix entire segments of the tree? Will we have to pay 10x a day to move things around? How exactly is that supposed to work. I know you dont personally understand that people enjoy a sense of progression but the devs definitely understood it when they reconfigured it, its part of why they did it.

Do not confuse "comparison" with "condescending". Even if it's not orthodox, it don't mean it's condescending. This is just how I see it in my eyes and it's clear that I also included myself there. So whether you think that's condescending or not, matters not. Because I'm not excluding myself here in any way since I am self-aware that'd it also would make me slighted, and I know what I'm saying.

No, I am clearly not sidestepping because I already included your argument with my other quote. You're also clearly strawmanning, because I said nothing about nixing any segments of the tree. All I said in the original post, was that I wanted the costs lowered, with the power values remaining the same. That's it. So your issue with what to do with lack of CP points was already explained to you, and that was lowering the CP cap. There obviously would be no left over CP points if the cap was lowered, so you don't gain any. You would know how it's supposed to work if you read the post. Not to mention it would fix your issue of how expensive it costs to respec as well, when you don't have so many CPs spent into something you don't need anymore, for the moment.

Choose your words wisely and read more thoroughly before you comment, because your strawman and lack of comprehension already leaves you with a bad impression and I might as well ignore you entirely since you assume I'm being as you claim "dramatic", and that's also condescending enough as is.

Wow. Im not condescending but.... id encourage you to read your own posts. That was about as condescending as you can possibly get. Im sorry your explanation was thoroughly convoluted and frankly it does absolutely nothing to streamline anything like as someone brought up- the fact that you need to put cp into skills you dont use to get ones you do. What is the point?

Let me be perfectly and completely clear here:

You not understanding how people find a sense of accomplishment doesnt invalidate it. In fact you not understanding anything doesnt invalidate it. People put a lot of time into it because it was of value to them. Period. It is natural and human to want that. I dont understand how you can possibly be this disconnected..

Yeah you're strawmanning. Ignoring.

Regardless of your allegedly not condescending nonsense I can confidently say they will never do anything this ridiculously radical.... because regardless of what you or i think cp grinding makes them money, xp scrolls make them money. Players feeling like they can keep going keeps people playing. They designed it for many of the reasons listed. They wanted players to feel a continued sense of progression. Im sorry you cant understand that.

Its obvious that you have a hard time relating to the nature of people but thats a you thing. "I dont understand why.." is not a reason to change it sunshine, its pretty obvious that there is a serious disconnect here as people keep trying to explain to you the basics of how people think function, and create happiness for themselves.

On the note have a lovely evening. Good luck with your crusade i guess. 👍

Not really interested in how seriously you take me, your opinion has no baring on anything in my life 🌞 welcome to the web

boi_anachronism_ wrote: »

GuardianStriker wrote: »

boi_anachronism_ wrote: »

"

GuardianStriker wrote: »

boi_anachronism_ wrote: »

" I find it akin to jiggling shiny keys in a child's face. Does anyone really want to be like that, unironically? Personally, I wouldn't as that would leave any sane human being feeling slighted."

Thats incredibly condescending. Im not sure how you don’t see that. There are plently on things that bug players for qol that would be great and make the player experience easier. If you were to poll the player base and ask if they would prefer an in game mini map option for console or a cp reconfiguration what do you think the response would be? This is a qol and there isnt one way to do it. The way you are purposing is going to make a lot of people very unhappy needlessly. As i said- there are ways to streamline it without creating a squish. Thats very one sided thinking. You say you are open to feedback but you seem stubbornly set that this is the only way to accomplish a more intuitive system.

Again you are also sidestepping the issue of what to do with the lack of cp points. Are we just going to nix entire segments of the tree? Will we have to pay 10x a day to move things around? How exactly is that supposed to work. I know you dont personally understand that people enjoy a sense of progression but the devs definitely understood it when they reconfigured it, its part of why they did it.

Do not confuse "comparison" with "condescending". Even if it's not orthodox, it don't mean it's condescending. This is just how I see it in my eyes and it's clear that I also included myself there. So whether you think that's condescending or not, matters not. Because I'm not excluding myself here in any way since I am self-aware that'd it also would make me slighted, and I know what I'm saying.

No, I am clearly not sidestepping because I already included your argument with my other quote. You're also clearly strawmanning, because I said nothing about nixing any segments of the tree. All I said in the original post, was that I wanted the costs lowered, with the power values remaining the same. That's it. So your issue with what to do with lack of CP points was already explained to you, and that was lowering the CP cap. There obviously would be no left over CP points if the cap was lowered, so you don't gain any. You would know how it's supposed to work if you read the post. Not to mention it would fix your issue of how expensive it costs to respec as well, when you don't have so many CPs spent into something you don't need anymore, for the moment.

Choose your words wisely and read more thoroughly before you comment, because your strawman and lack of comprehension already leaves you with a bad impression and I might as well ignore you entirely since you assume I'm being as you claim "dramatic", and that's also condescending enough as is.

Wow. Im not condescending but.... id encourage you to read your own posts. That was about as condescending as you can possibly get. Im sorry your explanation was thoroughly convoluted and frankly it does absolutely nothing to streamline anything like as someone brought up- the fact that you need to put cp into skills you dont use to get ones you do. What is the point?

Let me be perfectly and completely clear here:

You not understanding how people find a sense of accomplishment doesnt invalidate it. In fact you not understanding anything doesnt invalidate it. People put a lot of time into it because it was of value to them. Period. It is natural and human to want that. I dont understand how you can possibly be this disconnected..

Yeah you're strawmanning. Ignoring.

Regardless of your allegedly not condescending nonsense I can confidently say they will never do anything this ridiculously radical.... because regardless of what you or i think cp grinding makes them money, xp scrolls make them money. Players feeling like they can keep going keeps people playing. They designed it for many of the reasons listed. They wanted players to feel a continued sense of progression. Im sorry you cant understand that.

Its obvious that you have a hard time relating to the nature of people but thats a you thing. "I dont understand why.." is not a reason to change it sunshine, its pretty obvious that there is a serious disconnect here as people keep trying to explain to you the basics of how people think function, and create happiness for themselves.

On the note have a lovely evening. Good luck with your crusade i guess.

Hyperbole doesn't make people take you seriously either, so you can leave out the "crusade" bit too.

Ph1p wrote: »

Genuine question here: What exactly should this CP squish accomplish?

Is it to scale numbers down, like when a currency with rampant inflation cuts off a few zeros in their denomination? I don‘t think dividing everything by say 10 reduces complexity unless underlying structures and fundamentals are also changed.

Is it to create more room at the top because too many players are reaching the ceiling and don‘t have any progression any more? I don‘t think this is an issue in ESO, as there are very few CP 3600 players out there.

Is it to accelerate progression because you‘d only need say 10 CP to fill up a star instead of 50? I don‘t feel like progress is too slow and don‘t recall this being a common feedback here, but might be in the minority about this.

No on the first two answers. As I said already, the original post I had has stated that it would just make it less complicated than it needs to be. The values would still be the same when the CP perk is maxed out, it's just quicker to get to the max. Also, it's pretty obvious how very few CP 3600 there are, so of course that wouldn't be the reason.

As for accelerating progression, yes and no. A few comments I read are saying that when you reach CP 1400, you don't necessarily need anymore CPs. So why have the extra? Just get rid of the excess baggage. If it's too fast, well they can just up the needed level to achieve the next rank. But that would also render my idea moot, since you're still having to grind immensely to reach the cap. Old CP cap or new, it's the same grind.

Either way though, notyuu already stated much more important issues, and more useful changes than mine with the CP system anyway. So it doesn't matter.

Eliminating the points between stages would help the sense of progression. The 9, 14, 24, (and sometimes even more) points between CP boon stages create 9, 14, 24, (and sometimes even more) dead levels where the player has not achieved any progression.

GuardianStriker wrote: »

Either way though, notyuu already stated much more important issues, and more useful changes than mine with the CP system anyway. So it doesn't matter.

Thanks for your answer! So are you no longer arguing for a CP squish?

The reason I asked my original questions was because I wasn't sure what problem the CP change was supposed to tackle. In WoW, there was a level squish because each expansion kept adding new levels. So new players had an increasingly harder time, plus the need to reward higher-level players made balancing more difficult. ESO side-stepped all that by introducing the current CP system, which created a lot of room at the top (3600 CP levels), but reined in the power increase by limiting slottable stars.

Grizzbeorn wrote: »

GuardianStriker wrote: »

it ain't all about you.

Maybe take heed of your own statement.
The vast majority of people who responded to this thread disagree with you.

It don't mean all, so your "no u" is rather ineffective now is it?