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Make Ravenwatch NoCP with Procs enabled like Battlegrounds

  • Dr_Con
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    Dr_Con wrote: »
    i agree that u50 serves no purpose, I do not agree that no-proc should be removed from no-cp even though I don't play it, there's an active community who enjoys playing without proc sets.

    How do you know there’s an active number that are playing because of no proc vs Ravenwatch just being the only campaign that’s NoCP?

    procs ruin the game for many people, you also have entire builds dedicated to optimizing your gear set for no proc/cp gameplay. Gear like spinners garments and spriggans thorns have remained relevant in those campaigns for years.


    To the point about "proc sets cause lag" this is just untrue, more procs mean more likelihood of damage, more damage means person dies faster, person dies faster means all procs, healing, and debuffs (and all the data being generated) dies with them. Procs can affect only so many people before they care capped off. Less damage means more being alive which = more lag.

    This is partially why the 4 man ball buster groups are going to remain in the game, and why "bombers" - especially solo bombers- shouldn't receive all the hate they get when what they are doing likely reducing server-load and therefore lag.
  • YandereGirlfriend
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    J18696 wrote: »
    Pc na no cp campaign has been dead ever since they removed the sets its essentially just a ad zerg campaign now the population has never return to normal

    1000% this.

    No-Proc was billed as a temporary experiment to test performance that the devs then lost interest in and abandoned. Ravenwatch bled most of its player base after it became clear that the formerly temporary change was there to stay.
  • J18696
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    The entire concept just isn't realistic for Cyrodiil environment for years the answer to dealing with large groups of people has come in the form of proc based damage sets and ever since they have been taken away in these servers you just can't deal with large groups of players anymore it's literally who can stack the most health and armor with the most players wins
    Edited by J18696 on September 28, 2023 5:53AM
    PC NA Server
    @J18696
    Characters
    Pridē - Dragonknight
    Vanıty - Arcanist
  • xDeusEJRx
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    J18696 wrote: »
    The entire concept just isn't realistic for Cyrodiil environment for years the answer to dealing with large groups of people has come in the form of proc based damage sets and ever since they have been taken away in these servers you just can't deal with large groups of players anymore it's literally who can stack the most health and armor with the most players wins

    Yeah because proc based sets has definitely fixed the balancing problems in CP environments :D . There's also totally not a high health, high armor meta and defensive mechanics are insanely overtuned in CP despite the fact that you have super strong procs.

    Let's stop with the egregious takes for a second, procs or not the game at it's core is extremely unbalanced for CP gameplay and for reasons that are not necessarily because of procs. Defensive mechanics are too strong at their core, block healing is insanely op, cross healing is insanely op, high health builds are everywhere, some cp points play the game before and give you way more defensive mechanics than you can/should have.

    Defense in this game is way too strong, and procs never have and never will be able to balance that fact, no matter how many broken procs they introduce. The tank meta has persisted in CP despite the fact that ZOS has introduced sets that literally can hit 30k+ of your health bar in one burst.
    Solo PvP'er PS5 NA player

    90% of my body is made of Magblade
  • i11ionward
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    I think someone should just create a poll in the general section (to reach a larger audience) and let players choose which Ravenwatch they want to play in - NoCP/NoProc or NoCP/Proc.
    I don't see a larger population in Ravenwatch on PC EU, maybe changes will be useful.
  • gariondavey
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    i11ionward wrote: »
    I think someone should just create a poll in the general section (to reach a larger audience) and let players choose which Ravenwatch they want to play in - NoCP/NoProc or NoCP/Proc.
    I don't see a larger population in Ravenwatch on PC EU, maybe changes will be useful.

    Mods will just move it to a less used section
    PC NA @gariondavey, BG, IC & Cyrodiil Focused Since October 2017 Stamplar (main), Magplar, Magsorc, Stamsorc, StamDK, MagDK, Stamblade, Magblade, Magden, Stamden
  • NuarBlack
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    xDeusEJRx wrote: »
    J18696 wrote: »
    The entire concept just isn't realistic for Cyrodiil environment for years the answer to dealing with large groups of people has come in the form of proc based damage sets and ever since they have been taken away in these servers you just can't deal with large groups of players anymore it's literally who can stack the most health and armor with the most players wins

    Yeah because proc based sets has definitely fixed the balancing problems in CP environments :D . There's also totally not a high health, high armor meta and defensive mechanics are insanely overtuned in CP despite the fact that you have super strong procs.

    Let's stop with the egregious takes for a second, procs or not the game at it's core is extremely unbalanced for CP gameplay and for reasons that are not necessarily because of procs. Defensive mechanics are too strong at their core, block healing is insanely op, cross healing is insanely op, high health builds are everywhere, some cp points play the game before and give you way more defensive mechanics than you can/should have.

    Defense in this game is way too strong, and procs never have and never will be able to balance that fact, no matter how many broken procs they introduce. The tank meta has persisted in CP despite the fact that ZOS has introduced sets that literally can hit 30k+ of your health bar in one burst.

    It's not really defensive abilities It's sustain and healing being buffed too much with CP. It's been the problem with CP even before CP 2.0

    TTK in ESO has actually been too low in reality as you can kill an afk player in 2 globals. Rather than increase TTK ZoS kept buffing heals. Way, way back heals had cast times or were super expensive. So there was counter play. But somewhere this idea developed that cast times were bad. Which is sort of understandable for dps rotations because of light attack weaving, but it completely removed counter play to healing. It's made ESO pvp so tedious, especially CP enabled, as it's now 80% keeping all your buffs and heals up till you can hit your proc and ultimate window. The low TTK has created a cancerous arms race because there is no window for significant counter play. Pvp is reduced to get all your damage to land at once or they will heal back to full easily and abuse mechanics to avoid the 2 tap so you can burst heal back to full health.
    Edited by NuarBlack on September 29, 2023 5:30AM
  • NuarBlack
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    J18696 wrote: »
    The entire concept just isn't realistic for Cyrodiil environment for years the answer to dealing with large groups of people has come in the form of proc based damage sets and ever since they have been taken away in these servers you just can't deal with large groups of players anymore it's literally who can stack the most health and armor with the most players wins

    Should have never nerfed siege weapon damage to players. My fondest memories of Cyrodiil were of executing fighting retreats against larger zergs using staggered fire ballista to thin them down. That was the real anti zerg and ball group solution not these gimmick sets that are such a double edged sword that backfire more often than not.
    Edited by NuarBlack on September 29, 2023 5:36AM
  • xDeusEJRx
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    NuarBlack wrote: »
    xDeusEJRx wrote: »
    J18696 wrote: »
    The entire concept just isn't realistic for Cyrodiil environment for years the answer to dealing with large groups of people has come in the form of proc based damage sets and ever since they have been taken away in these servers you just can't deal with large groups of players anymore it's literally who can stack the most health and armor with the most players wins

    Yeah because proc based sets has definitely fixed the balancing problems in CP environments :D . There's also totally not a high health, high armor meta and defensive mechanics are insanely overtuned in CP despite the fact that you have super strong procs.

    Let's stop with the egregious takes for a second, procs or not the game at it's core is extremely unbalanced for CP gameplay and for reasons that are not necessarily because of procs. Defensive mechanics are too strong at their core, block healing is insanely op, cross healing is insanely op, high health builds are everywhere, some cp points play the game before and give you way more defensive mechanics than you can/should have.

    Defense in this game is way too strong, and procs never have and never will be able to balance that fact, no matter how many broken procs they introduce. The tank meta has persisted in CP despite the fact that ZOS has introduced sets that literally can hit 30k+ of your health bar in one burst.

    It's not really defensive abilities It's sustain and healing being buffed too much with CP. It's been the problem with CP even before CP 2.0

    TTK in ESO has actually been too low in reality as you can kill an afk player in 2 globals. Rather than increase TTK ZoS kept buffing heals. Way, way back heals had cast times or were super expensive. So there was counter play. But somewhere this idea developed that cast times were bad. Which is sort of understandable for dps rotations because of light attack weaving, but it completely removed counter play to healing. It's made ESO pvp so tedious, especially CP enabled, as it's now 80% keeping all your buffs and heals up till you can hit your proc and ultimate window. The low TTK has created a cancerous arms race because there is no window for significant counter play. Pvp is reduced to get all your damage to land at once or they will heal back to full easily and abuse mechanics to avoid the 2 tap so you can burst heal back to full health.

    I quite literally implied that when I said "Defensive mechanics are too strong". Healing is apart of defense, therefore what I said still applies. No matter what procs you bring into play, defensive mechanics keep getting buffed, and more sources of defense added to the game patch by patch.

    Sea serpents, Maras, Markyn. Foresight CP (75% reduction to healing cost after potions). Slippery, Vigor granting minor resolve.

    We can go on and on, but there's been almost no patch since Update 33 ascending tide where Defensive mechanics haven't gotten stronger and stronger.
    I think it's funny how we like to assume procs are the magical fix to tank meta problems, when it really isn't. If a player wants to make a build where they can put heavy DPS and not die, they can and fairly easily
    Solo PvP'er PS5 NA player

    90% of my body is made of Magblade
  • NuarBlack
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    xDeusEJRx wrote: »

    I quite literally implied that when I said "Defensive mechanics are too strong". Healing is apart of defense, therefore what I said still applies. No matter what procs you bring into play, defensive mechanics keep getting buffed, and more sources of defense added to the game patch by patch.

    Sea serpents, Maras, Markyn. Foresight CP (75% reduction to healing cost after potions). Slippery, Vigor granting minor resolve.

    We can go on and on, but there's been almost no patch since Update 33 ascending tide where Defensive mechanics haven't gotten stronger and stronger.
    I think it's funny how we like to assume procs are the magical fix to tank meta problems, when it really isn't. If a player wants to make a build where they can put heavy DPS and not die, they can and fairly easily

    Okay fair enough, we agree just some semantics getting in the way. I do think calling it a tank meta obfuscated the problem though. Major protection and heavy armor has been nerfed repeatedly yet we still keep ending up back here.

    ZoS specifically targeted perma blocking and block casting a few years back yet then proceded to buff sustain so much other places it actually made it easier to do with less investment as people used to have to at least use jewelry slots to get the efficiency they needed.

    Outside of undeath passive I don't think mitigation is the problem, which is why "anti tank sets" don't work and are often just uno reversed and used by tanks in ball groups. TTK, healing and sustain are the problem. If TTK was higher tanks would need more than cheese ult plus delayed burst to land kills so their lack of offensive focus would actually be a trade off. Building full offense and penetration doesn't give you a TTK advantage right now is the problem. Damage isn't necessarily too easy to come by its just that you really actually need so little of it if you can land it in a small window.
  • Twohothardware
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    A big reason we're in the current meta is the hybridization of classes. It makes things more simple but it creates balance issues in pvp. When you can mix and match magicka and stamina skills that means you don't need as much regen or max resources.

    What everyone is doing is putting the majority of their attribute points into health and using more health based and cleansing sets rather than sets that give max resources or regen.
  • birdik
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    Imperial city too
  • J18696
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    xDeusEJRx wrote: »
    J18696 wrote: »
    The entire concept just isn't realistic for Cyrodiil environment for years the answer to dealing with large groups of people has come in the form of proc based damage sets and ever since they have been taken away in these servers you just can't deal with large groups of players anymore it's literally who can stack the most health and armor with the most players wins

    Yeah because proc based sets has definitely fixed the balancing problems in CP environments :D . There's also totally not a high health, high armor meta and defensive mechanics are insanely overtuned in CP despite the fact that you have super strong procs.

    Let's stop with the egregious takes for a second, procs or not the game at it's core is extremely unbalanced for CP gameplay and for reasons that are not necessarily because of procs. Defensive mechanics are too strong at their core, block healing is insanely op, cross healing is insanely op, high health builds are everywhere, some cp points play the game before and give you way more defensive mechanics than you can/should have.

    Defense in this game is way too strong, and procs never have and never will be able to balance that fact, no matter how many broken procs they introduce. The tank meta has persisted in CP despite the fact that ZOS has introduced sets that literally can hit 30k+ of your health bar in one burst.

    I never said it would fix balance you are just jumping to a conclusion but they are the only real solution we have to combating larger grps reguardless of how effective they are but would you rather have the option to plaguebreak and vicious death a large grp or nothing at all just let the already large amount of issues stack ontop of not having a counter to large groups

    Also I don't think procs not being there is the main reason these campaigns should go back to allowing all sets the main reason is no one is playing them population has easily dropped by over half since the change and its never recovered vast majority of the population just don't want to play in the ruleset
    Edited by J18696 on September 30, 2023 2:06PM
    PC NA Server
    @J18696
    Characters
    Pridē - Dragonknight
    Vanıty - Arcanist
  • J18696
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    A big reason we're in the current meta is the hybridization of classes. It makes things more simple but it creates balance issues in pvp. When you can mix and match magicka and stamina skills that means you don't need as much regen or max resources.

    What everyone is doing is putting the majority of their attribute points into health and using more health based and cleansing sets rather than sets that give max resources or regen.

    That and the fact max magicka and stam are more or less entirely irrelevant because its easier and more efficient to just stack into weapon and spell damage and ignore stat pump health
    PC NA Server
    @J18696
    Characters
    Pridē - Dragonknight
    Vanıty - Arcanist
  • Udrath
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    No-cp is active on PCEU but dead on PCNA. Prime time for NA is usually just one big AD group and PVEdoor. A lot people that spam battlegrounds on NA used to be very active in the old no-cp campaign. Really hope they change it back sooner than later
    Edited by Udrath on October 1, 2023 12:17AM
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