Make Ravenwatch NoCP with Procs enabled like Battlegrounds

Twohothardware

Why is Battlegrounds NoCP with Procs enabled, but our only NoCP Cyrodiil campaign, Ravenwatch, is still Procs disabled?

The noproc campaign was added way back when server tests were being run to see if it improved server performance. All platforms have new servers now. It's confusing to the average player to even know what works and what doesn't because there's no in-game marker on what's classified as a proc set. And most players don't want to play a campaign where 75% of the sets in the game are disabled.

Why not shut down the under-LvL 50 campaign and just give us one NoCP campaign where the rules are the same as Battlegrounds? Combining the two might get enough players to actually have some PvP action.

Dr_Con

i agree that u50 serves no purpose, I do not agree that no-proc should be removed from no-cp even though I don't play it, there's an active community who enjoys playing without proc sets.

Twohothardware

Dr_Con wrote: »

i agree that u50 serves no purpose, I do not agree that no-proc should be removed from no-cp even though I don't play it, there's an active community who enjoys playing without proc sets.

How do you know there’s an active number that are playing because of no proc vs Ravenwatch just being the only campaign that’s NoCP?

virtus753

Twohothardware wrote: »

Why is Battlegrounds NoCP with Procs enabled, but our only NoCP Cyrodiil campaign, Ravenwatch, is still Procs disabled?

The noproc campaign was added way back when server tests were being run to see if it improved server performance. All platforms have new servers now. It's confusing to the average player to even know what works and what doesn't because there's no in-game marker on what's classified as a proc set. And most players don't want to play a campaign where 75% of the sets in the game are disabled.

Why not shut down the under-LvL 50 campaign and just give us one NoCP campaign where the rules are the same as Battlegrounds? Combining the two might get enough players to actually have some PvP action.

They found that disabling procs didn’t have a significant performance impact in their view, so new servers would seem irrelevant to their decision on procs vs no-procs. They said they decided to keep no-proc nevertheless because they got a lot of feedback in favor of it during testing and Blackwood. In fact, they initially said procs weren’t coming back to PvP at all, for reasons they said had nothing to do with performance - then there was the very vocal feedback against the total elimination of proc campaigns, so now they offer both. But I don’t think they feel they have enough demand for Cyrodiil to offer both no-proc no-CP and proc no-CP in addition to the two CP+proc campaigns. They have more metrics on Ravenwatch and Icereach than we do, and it seems like they don’t think eliminating the sub-50 camp and trying to get people into a new any-level campaign would work. Without numbers and knowing how many people would stop PvPing if sub-50 were removed, it’s hard to say.

As for marking what proc sets work in no-proc, that’s definitely long been a pain point. Kevin said a while back that the devs would put together an updated list, but that never materialized. The one they initially released was inaccurate even at the time. It would be very helpful if they could follow up on that promise even just here on the forums if they don’t want to put in the time to mark sets in game, although of course that would be ideal.

Zabagad

Twohothardware wrote: »

How do you know there’s an active number that are playing because of no proc vs Ravenwatch just being the only campaign that’s NoCP?

That's a good question, but

Twohothardware wrote: »

And most players don't want to play a campaign where 75% of the sets in the game are disabled.

how do you know that?

I know - because I play there and talked to others over the years.
So I know for 100% that I play Raven because of NoProc and I know there is "an active community who enjoys playing without proc sets".
What I don't know - how many of the poulation? Maybe 5% - maybe 50% or maybe even more - I simply don't know.

Whatever they do (I agree about <50 but I don't think that the intersection between NoCp and <50 is big) - I hope that at the end, there is at least one CP160 campaign to escape from all that proc bs.
I think that the difference between CP and NoCP is not that big as the difference between Proc and NoProc.
So my personal whish (If your wish would be granted by ZOS) would be to use blackreach as a NoProc - but I guess there are many blackreach lovers who wouldn't want to do that?

I mean, NoCP has never been seriously run from ZOS side and that's a big reason for the actual mess.
So a new NoProc should in my opinion work the other way around.
Exclude the top20 proc sets and communicate that list.
Sure there will never be a true consensus on which are the worst top20, but if with that way the worst top10 are out of the equation, I see a good chance of getting a popular campaign.
All the "Set XYZ is OP - please nerf" ppl could then escape to this new campaign...

Twohothardware

Zabagad wrote: »

Twohothardware wrote: »

How do you know there’s an active number that are playing because of no proc vs Ravenwatch just being the only campaign that’s NoCP?

That's a good question, but

Twohothardware wrote: »

And most players don't want to play a campaign where 75% of the sets in the game are disabled.

how do you know that?

Because I can see how many bars of players are lit up in the Campaign menu, and while Gray Host has 3 full bars on all 3 Alliances during prime time, there’s not a single bar on any Alliance showing for Ravenwatch, even on the weekend.

I’m on PlayStation NA, but I was watching a streamer tonight on PC, and there was no one in Ravenwatch when he scrolled past the campaign.

I also joined Ravenwatch tonight and the first place Alliance was 30k points ahead. You don’t build up that kind of lead in an active Campaign.

xDeusEJRx

Twohothardware wrote: »

Zabagad wrote: »

Twohothardware wrote: »

How do you know there’s an active number that are playing because of no proc vs Ravenwatch just being the only campaign that’s NoCP?

That's a good question, but

Twohothardware wrote: »

And most players don't want to play a campaign where 75% of the sets in the game are disabled.

how do you know that?

Because I can see how many bars of players are lit up in the Campaign menu, and while Gray Host has 3 full bars on all 3 Alliances during prime time, there’s not a single bar on any Alliance showing for Ravenwatch, even on the weekend.

I’m on PlayStation NA, but I was watching a streamer tonight on PC, and there was no one in Ravenwatch when he scrolled past the campaign.

I also joined Ravenwatch tonight and the first place Alliance was 30k points ahead. You don’t build up that kind of lead in an active Campaign.

I play on playstation NA as well and EP currently has a lead of 32k points on PS NA. By that argument I can say blackreach should just be deleted because the only thing keeping it relevant is No-faction lock but I wouldn't because that's a ridiculous argument.

The entire argument here is that if it's not an active campaign, they should take away player's options and variety to POTENTIALLY bring players in.
But ultimately, why would people want to play Ravenwatch even IF procs came back. It's just a tougher environment than say gray host, because people can't be as carried by Champion points. CP is a huge carry for builds in many ways, and a lot of people aren't going to give up their CP to play in ravenwatch just because procs come back. Definitely not for below 50 players that are probably just queuing into cyrodiil at level 10. Below 50s will definitely not be able to compete if they are genuinely new to the game and not re-made characters.

I'm not denying there might be people that want to use procs either, but it's not going to be comparable to Gray Host, definitely not enough to "have enough players to get enough action" as you said in the original post. It's like you're trying to imply if a campaign isn't as active as Gray Host, then it doesn't matter, lol.

The entire change would be taking away player's options to choose, which has never ever been good for PVP in this game. It didn't work when BG's became TDM only, it didn't work when TDM queue was removed, it didn't work when PVP became no-proc for 3 months. Why do you think it'll be any different now to remove player's choice and they'll be happy about it?

Twohothardware

I have 1800 CP and I would play Ravenwatch if it was like Battlegrounds and all of my gear wasn’t disabled because it’s an escape from players being as tanky with CP.

That’s why a lot of players like Battlegrounds and wish they could play it without the high mmr matchmaking.

I think a lot more players from Gray Host would play it with procs re-enabled. And right now Ravenwatch is dead so it needs a change.

xDeusEJRx

Twohothardware wrote: »

I have 1800 CP and I would play Ravenwatch if it was like Battlegrounds and all of my gear wasn’t disabled because it’s an escape from players being as tanky with CP.

That’s why a lot of players like Battlegrounds and wish they could play it without the high mmr matchmaking.

I think a lot more players from Gray Host would play it with procs re-enabled. And right now Ravenwatch is dead so it needs a change.

It would not work the way you think it would. I played in Ravenwatch for 2+ years as my home campaign(back when it was still called Sotha Sil in Clockwork city patch) on PS NA. It was dead before no proc it will still be. Not to mention that No-CP was far more populated 3 years ago because console players didn't mass exodus over to PC, but even then it didn't matter to keep the campaigns alive. The highest it ever got was 1 bar in favor of the dominating faction.
It was SO dead even, that you had players from other factions swapping to the dead factions just to help the solos re-take their home keeps before swapping back to the main faction.

The reason it's dead is because it's not gray host, people will go to where the highest population is, no matter what the ruleset or conditions is. it's a little foolish to assume just giving people access to procs will revive the campaign, it won't.

Major_Toughness

Twohothardware wrote: »

I have 1800 CP and I would play Ravenwatch if it was like Battlegrounds and all of my gear wasn’t disabled because it’s an escape from players being as tanky with CP.

That’s why a lot of players like Battlegrounds and wish they could play it without the high mmr matchmaking.

I think a lot more players from Gray Host would play it with procs re-enabled. And right now Ravenwatch is dead so it needs a change.

Had to play Gray Host for like 2 years because they ruined my Ravenwatch. I would play there now even with over 2600 CP.

CP is a bigger issue in PvP than "proc" sets are.

I would rather have 2 No-CP campaigns with a proc and no proc with no U50. Because then there is a choice, but would probably spread the populations too thin.

Currently the three campaigns, excluding U50, don't get full on prime time EU, and U50 is empty.

Twohothardware

xDeusEJRx wrote: »

Twohothardware wrote: »

I have 1800 CP and I would play Ravenwatch if it was like Battlegrounds and all of my gear wasn’t disabled because it’s an escape from players being as tanky with CP.

That’s why a lot of players like Battlegrounds and wish they could play it without the high mmr matchmaking.

I think a lot more players from Gray Host would play it with procs re-enabled. And right now Ravenwatch is dead so it needs a change.

It would not work the way you think it would. I played in Ravenwatch for 2+ years as my home campaign(back when it was still called Sotha Sil in Clockwork city patch) on PS NA. It was dead before no proc it will still be. Not to mention that No-CP was far more populated 3 years ago because console players didn't mass exodus over to PC, but even then it didn't matter to keep the campaigns alive. The highest it ever got was 1 bar in favor of the dominating faction.
It was SO dead even, that you had players from other factions swapping to the dead factions just to help the solos re-take their home keeps before swapping back to the main faction.

The reason it's dead is because it's not gray host, people will go to where the highest population is, no matter what the ruleset or conditions is. it's a little foolish to assume just giving people access to procs will revive the campaign, it won't.

No one is saying it’s going to have anywhere near the popularity of Gray Host or likely even Blackreach, but right now the population is next to no one, and part of that is due to there being too many campaigns splitting up the small player base, and another part is all of the popular sets, including monster sets, being disabled in there. It’s basically exactly the same as the Under Lvl 50 campaign in terms of what gear you can run.

i11ionward

The developers could experiment if they wanted. There are different options to revive Ravenwatch, such as turning the into a 7-day period, do non proc/non cp for 7 days, then proc/non cp for next 7 days, and repeat.

Zabagad

Major_Toughness wrote: »

CP is a bigger issue in PvP than "proc" sets are.

As I said exactly the opposite - honest question - why do you think that?
It feels like every 2nd thread is about "nerf Maarselok", nerf Master DW", "nerf vate", "nerf Fire", "nerf Dragon" ....
I don't see so many "nerf CP" threads or "this CP is OP".

Four_Fingers

Why do you guys always want to take something away when you want something, blows my mind.

edward_frigidhands

I personally think the game needs to be done with no-CP content but the suggestion from OP would be an alternative better than what we have now with Ravenwatch.

Major_Toughness

Zabagad wrote: »

Major_Toughness wrote: »

CP is a bigger issue in PvP than "proc" sets are.

As I said exactly the opposite - honest question - why do you think that?
It feels like every 2nd thread is about "nerf Maarselok", nerf Master DW", "nerf vate", "nerf Fire", "nerf Dragon" ....
I don't see so many "nerf CP" threads or "this CP is OP".

Firstly, forums is a tiny percentage of the player base. Even those that do come here get banned more often than not, almost everyone I know is banned from here because any time you disagree with the OP of a thread you get a ban/warning for "baiting".

Secondly, players are biased. If something is OP but they like it they're more often than not going to let it slide. It gives you insane sustain, damage mitigation, and damage. Typically more damage than mitigation but for certain damage types rather than overall.
One of the most popular sets in Battlegrounds is Wretched Vitality whereas it's rarely required in CP cyrodiil because the sustain loss from CP to No-CP is huge. This means you can run an extra set i.e Way of Fire, without losing anything.
I've been meaning to write a post about CP but I'll post something in a spoiler here in case you want my reasonings.

Almost everyone runs 3, if not all 4 of the following slottable red CP's

• Pain's Refuge - Up to 20% damage taken. 2% per 2 negative effects active on you. At max that is double Major Protection. On average probably at least an extra Minor Protection (4-6%).
• Relentlessness - Major Protection for 3s after being CC'd. 10% damage mitigation during almost any incoming burst window.
• Survival Instincts - 25% cost reduction on core combat abilities, at max stage. Insane sustain, mostly stam. More below.
• Sustain by Suffering - 150 Health, Magicka, and Stamina recovery while you have a negative effect on you. Just flat sustain buff.

Survival Instincts examples:
Dodge cost w/o: 3555
Dodge cost w/: 2667
Dodge cost with 1x fatigue w/o: 4888
Dodge cost with 1x fatigue w/: 3666

888 stamina saved from a single roll dodge. Dodge twice in a row and you save 2110 stamina.

Break free cost w/o: 4050
Break free cost w: 3038

1012 stamina saved from a single break free.

Except this applies to every dodge, break free, block, and bash.
If you contemplate how many times you do these in say, a 5 minute fight in Cyrodiil, you can imagine the amount of stamina you saved, and therefore amout of recovery you didn't need compared to No-CP.

It's not always going to be bias, I imagine there are players who want to use the CP points they have earned over their playing time, rather than not use them at all which you could question what is the point in getting CP at all - especially if you only/primarily PvP.

Four_Fingers wrote: »

Why do you guys always want to take something away when you want something, blows my mind.

Well we got No-CP with procs taken away from us in the first place.
Not sure if you are directly responding to me - probably not - but I did suggest we keep a No-CP No-Proc campaign and change an existing one, for the benefit of choice.

So we could have

1. "Standard" CP campaign
2. No-CP, Procs enabled campaign
3. No-CP, No-Proc campaign

Rather than the current

1. 2x "Standard" CP campaigns
2. No-CP, No-Proc campaign

You gain choice.

xDeusEJRx

Zabagad wrote: »

Major_Toughness wrote: »

CP is a bigger issue in PvP than "proc" sets are.

As I said exactly the opposite - honest question - why do you think that?
It feels like every 2nd thread is about "nerf Maarselok", nerf Master DW", "nerf vate", "nerf Fire", "nerf Dragon" ....
I don't see so many "nerf CP" threads or "this CP is OP".

CP definitely is and can be a bigger issue than some procs. I mean for the longest time Occult Overload was dominating Proc enabled campaigns when it was first buffed, to the point they had to nerf it down again. Plus CP can give you a lot of "carry" mechanics like free break frees on every 3rd break free with slippery or free roll dodges, or extended CC immunity, or free 3k resources upon killing enemies.

People like to clown on procs for being "play the game for you" mechanics but you literally have CP slottables like Slippery that quite literally play the game for you and do things like auto-break free.

Four_Fingers

Major_Toughness wrote: »

Zabagad wrote: »

Major_Toughness wrote: »

CP is a bigger issue in PvP than "proc" sets are.

As I said exactly the opposite - honest question - why do you think that?
It feels like every 2nd thread is about "nerf Maarselok", nerf Master DW", "nerf vate", "nerf Fire", "nerf Dragon" ....
I don't see so many "nerf CP" threads or "this CP is OP".

Firstly, forums is a tiny percentage of the player base. Even those that do come here get banned more often than not, almost everyone I know is banned from here because any time you disagree with the OP of a thread you get a ban/warning for "baiting".

Secondly, players are biased. If something is OP but they like it they're more often than not going to let it slide. It gives you insane sustain, damage mitigation, and damage. Typically more damage than mitigation but for certain damage types rather than overall.
One of the most popular sets in Battlegrounds is Wretched Vitality whereas it's rarely required in CP cyrodiil because the sustain loss from CP to No-CP is huge. This means you can run an extra set i.e Way of Fire, without losing anything.
I've been meaning to write a post about CP but I'll post something in a spoiler here in case you want my reasonings.

Almost everyone runs 3, if not all 4 of the following slottable red CP's

• Pain's Refuge - Up to 20% damage taken. 2% per 2 negative effects active on you. At max that is double Major Protection. On average probably at least an extra Minor Protection (4-6%).
• Relentlessness - Major Protection for 3s after being CC'd. 10% damage mitigation during almost any incoming burst window.
• Survival Instincts - 25% cost reduction on core combat abilities, at max stage. Insane sustain, mostly stam. More below.
• Sustain by Suffering - 150 Health, Magicka, and Stamina recovery while you have a negative effect on you. Just flat sustain buff.

Survival Instincts examples:
Dodge cost w/o: 3555
Dodge cost w/: 2667
Dodge cost with 1x fatigue w/o: 4888
Dodge cost with 1x fatigue w/: 3666

888 stamina saved from a single roll dodge. Dodge twice in a row and you save 2110 stamina.

Break free cost w/o: 4050
Break free cost w: 3038

1012 stamina saved from a single break free.

Except this applies to every dodge, break free, block, and bash.
If you contemplate how many times you do these in say, a 5 minute fight in Cyrodiil, you can imagine the amount of stamina you saved, and therefore amout of recovery you didn't need compared to No-CP.

It's not always going to be bias, I imagine there are players who want to use the CP points they have earned over their playing time, rather than not use them at all which you could question what is the point in getting CP at all - especially if you only/primarily PvP.

Four_Fingers wrote: »

Why do you guys always want to take something away when you want something, blows my mind.

Well we got No-CP with procs taken away from us in the first place.
Not sure if you are directly responding to me - probably not - but I did suggest we keep a No-CP No-Proc campaign and change an existing one, for the benefit of choice.

So we could have

1. "Standard" CP campaign
2. No-CP, Procs enabled campaign
3. No-CP, No-Proc campaign

Rather than the current

1. 2x "Standard" CP campaigns
2. No-CP, No-Proc campaign

You gain choice.

I was referring to the call to remove the under lvl 50 campaign which has nothing to do with Raven.
A lot of us love leveling up new alts in under 50 because the dailies give a lot of xp and also you get some PvP in and can reach at least first sergeant by the time you reach level 50 and get kicked out.
Plus you get all the skyshards. lol
Been playing there off and on since it was called Blackwater Blade.

Necrotech_Master

i liked ravenwatch when it was no cp with procs, once the procs got taken out i stopped playing there lol

i do also get that there are people that enjoy playing with no procs, as i think that is actually a better environment to learn pvp than the under lvl 50 campaign

J18696

Pc na no cp campaign has been dead ever since they removed the sets its essentially just a ad zerg campaign now the population has never return to normal

OBJnoob

Ravenwatch has been my main campaign more or less forever.

It's a weird place because while you would suppose it is a good place to "start PvP," what it really tends to be is a haven for vet PvPers who don't like procs. And those vets aren't numerous enough to populate the campaign but they are regular enough to mow down any rookie group that shows up and leave a bad taste in their mouths. Which obviously keeps them from coming back often, if at all, and results in those vets just zerging down any resource that flags, PvDooring, and using the campaign as a way to generate AP and pass Emp around between whatever 5 people like PvDoor the most. Or just shamelessly boost cuz nobody is there to see much less care.

I think I speak for most Ravenwatch vets when I say that going into Blackreach (or GH, if somehow you can handle the lag,) is easy mode. And I don't say that from a place of arrogance. It isn't that there aren't people more talented than me, with better understanding of CP, or equipped with awesome proc sets that I don't even have. It's just that the population is so much healthier, and therefore diverse, that it's relatively easy to avoid the Pro Farmers and find somebody(s) to farm yourself.

It really has nothing to do with talent or experience, as to who or why someone plays in Ravenwatch. It does have everything to do with CP and, to a lesser degree, procs.

Almost every PvPer on these forums agrees, to varying extents, that CP and proc sets carry gameplay, are cheesey, and remove skill from the equation.

Those that main the Ravenwatch campaign obviously mean it more. But there are so many downsides to playing in Ravenwatch that those that kinda feel that way but don't play there can be easily excused.

I've already laid out most of the downsides but of course then there's the fact that nobody really knows, from day to day, what sets do or don't work in there. And that blame fits firmly on the shoulders of ZOS and nowhere else.

What I REALLY wish is that they'd fix (and by fix I mean create,) the list of sets and leave Ravenwatch the same. But that's not going to bring anyone in because of all the other crap I mentioned that has now devolved to a state beyond repair.

So even though it wasn't the best answer... What is now the best answer is for them to return the full list of sets. And pray anybody still gives a crap. Yes this removes choice... My favorite choice in fact... But still it is the only answer.

Because the elite players who kinda sorta wish for a skillful lag free playing ground aren't going to show up to skillfully fight nobody.

Major_Toughness

OBJnoob wrote: »

Ravenwatch has been my main campaign more or less forever.

It's a weird place because while you would suppose it is a good place to "start PvP," what it really tends to be is a haven for vet PvPers who don't like procs. And those vets aren't numerous enough to populate the campaign but they are regular enough to mow down any rookie group that shows up and leave a bad taste in their mouths. Which obviously keeps them from coming back often, if at all, and results in those vets just zerging down any resource that flags, PvDooring, and using the campaign as a way to generate AP and pass Emp around between whatever 5 people like PvDoor the most. Or just shamelessly boost cuz nobody is there to see much less care.

I think I speak for most Ravenwatch vets when I say that going into Blackreach (or GH, if somehow you can handle the lag,) is easy mode. And I don't say that from a place of arrogance. It isn't that there aren't people more talented than me, with better understanding of CP, or equipped with awesome proc sets that I don't even have. It's just that the population is so much healthier, and therefore diverse, that it's relatively easy to avoid the Pro Farmers and find somebody(s) to farm yourself.

It really has nothing to do with talent or experience, as to who or why someone plays in Ravenwatch. It does have everything to do with CP and, to a lesser degree, procs.

Almost every PvPer on these forums agrees, to varying extents, that CP and proc sets carry gameplay, are cheesey, and remove skill from the equation.

Those that main the Ravenwatch campaign obviously mean it more. But there are so many downsides to playing in Ravenwatch that those that kinda feel that way but don't play there can be easily excused.

I've already laid out most of the downsides but of course then there's the fact that nobody really knows, from day to day, what sets do or don't work in there. And that blame fits firmly on the shoulders of ZOS and nowhere else.

What I REALLY wish is that they'd fix (and by fix I mean create,) the list of sets and leave Ravenwatch the same. But that's not going to bring anyone in because of all the other crap I mentioned that has now devolved to a state beyond repair.

So even though it wasn't the best answer... What is now the best answer is for them to return the full list of sets. And pray anybody still gives a crap. Yes this removes choice... My favorite choice in fact... But still it is the only answer.

Because the elite players who kinda sorta wish for a skillful lag free playing ground aren't going to show up to skillfully fight nobody.

Basically unless stated assume any new set will not work in No-Proc, as it seems they have to turn them on individually and of course have forgotten about No-Proc existing.

I reported Order's Wrath not working on Day 1 it was released - couldn't test on PTS as there is no No-Proc campaign. Yet it took how long to fix?

I vaguely remember it being said about working on different "rule sets" which I hoped would mean that what we would call "stat sets" being enabled.
Such as Powerful Assault, Rallying Cry etc. But without any "proc" sets such as Way of Fire, Venomous Smite etc.

There is obviously still a disconnect between the players and developers, and the player-driven classifications to sets.

I still hope there is some background work going on to classify sets and potentially give us different rule sets, which would enable either multiple campaigns, or rotating campaigns.

OBJnoob

Well to me Powerful Assault and Clever Alchemist and all that are procs too. I mean... Well, they are.

I can agree most of them aren't as noticable or as annoying as the others... But they're really all fueling the same problem.

With uptimes and downtimes, backbars and frontbars, the PvP experience has devolved into windows of opportunity. The windows of opportunity can't really be created dynamically they revolve around a timer. And because of this people turtle then burst, turtle then burst. Even good fights are boring because of this.

Why would someone take 299 weapon damage from hundings rage when they could get like 650 from Clever? Surviving the in-between is trivial-- it doesn't matter that it's conditional. And popping a potion is not harder than than dealing critical damage, overheating, casting a ground ability, or anything else.

People see rending slashes on their recap. They see the big circle that pulled them. They see way of fire on their recap. But was the 2k proc every 2 seconds actually worse than 650 weapon damage tacking 500 more to every instance of damage? I'd say it's pretty similar.

But it isn't important what I think or what I want. Its been obvious for about 2 years I'm not gonna get what I want. So... Please refer to my last post.

I've given up on them classifying or listing sets. If they cared it wouldn't have taken this long. The whole thing belongs in the dumpster. Not the recycle dumpster either, that they tease us by keeping it in. The TRASH.

tonyblack

Ravenwatch used to be just about as popular on pc eu as grey host with constant lock on all factions but after no proc came it became dead campaign. I miss those times as it’s faster paced combat without tanky tower runners builds which nearly impossible to kill in cp.

caserdar

welcome to the club buddy, if you check my profile you will see i have created my forums account just to ask this and 4 times i have been completely ignored of any smallest of reaction from zos.

Zabagad

Major_Toughness wrote: »

[...]

First: Tyvm for this long answer!

Even if I'm not convinced that (assuming almost every halfway serious PvP player has 800+ CPs very quickly (I have 2400+)) and you are right that almost everybody(!) is using the same CPs, that this is making such a big difference.
Bc as you said NoCp has sustain issues and all that sustain can then go into dmg.
So more defence bc of CPs vs. more dmg bc of CPs - sounds like almost a draw for me.
This compared to - that almost everybody is forced to use proc sets - ... mhhh

Maybe it would be really the best to make a 3 month test for NoCp with proc stes to see what would happen.
I'm sure on PS/XBOX and PC/NA not much - but maybe something on PC/EU.
And/or a 3 month test on Blackreach without proc-sets? Maybe then we get some answers...?

Kartalin

The issue with no proc, as we experienced it on pc/NA is that if populations are imbalanced then then the higher population faction can take advantage of this by running tankier setups and overwhelming opponents with numbers. There are no tools available that let us deal with a vastly higher number of opponents, particularly an opponent that was so thoroughly dedicated to quashing any competition that one by one the DC and EP guilds migrated away from the campaign leaving AD to lord over their empty server.

Congrats, you won, you killed an entire campaign.

The funniest part was when they later complained about wanting opponents and asked some guilds to come back, lol. Glhf

Now they try the same tactics in Blackreach but we have tools to make it competitive as they still try to hide in their 40+ stack.

Twohothardware

This is Ravenwatch on PlayStation NA during prime time tonight.

Hegron

Zabagad wrote: »

Major_Toughness wrote: »

CP is a bigger issue in PvP than "proc" sets are.

As I said exactly the opposite - honest question - why do you think that?
It feels like every 2nd thread is about "nerf Maarselok", nerf Master DW", "nerf vate", "nerf Fire", "nerf Dragon" ....
I don't see so many "nerf CP" threads or "this CP is OP".

Two scenarios:

1. One Char with NoProc Build (only NoCp Sets allowed) against a Char with todays standard proc build, we know, what it is, both Chars have > 1000 Cp's.

2. One Char with no Cp's against someone with > 1000 Cp's, both wear todays standard proc build.

In which scenario is the handicapped char more likely to win or at least stand their ground? I don't know the answer, but i don't want to fight with no Cp's against a > 1000 Cp Player. It's just a feeling. It feels more right, to fight with my own build against a char with a meta build, than with very low cp's against a high cp char.

The reality is, all NoCp campaigns are dead or almost dead since the campaigns became noproc. I think, the mindset is more important. Most players want to play the best possible builds and don't follow some gimping and restrictive ruleset. It is what it is.

SkaraMinoc

No Proc doesn't even work right. Take Deadlands Demolisher and Veiled Heritance for example. Neither set provides the static bash damage that they're supposed to give. Instead of splitting out bash damage from the procs, they disable the entire 5pc bonus and kill off bash builds entirely. Static damage bonuses should never be disabled in No Proc.

Twohothardware

SkaraMinoc wrote: »

No Proc doesn't even work right. Take Deadlands Demolisher and Veiled Heritance for example. Neither set provides the static bash damage that they're supposed to give. Instead of splitting out bash damage from the procs, they disable the entire 5pc bonus and kill off bash builds entirely. Static damage bonuses should never be disabled in No Proc.

No proc shouldn’t even be a Campaign setting any more. This was a test to see if sets with a “proc” were a reason server performance was bad. They just left it enabled because you had a small crowd that said they liked it. Now the NoCp campaigns are dead.