Vampirism did get some changes back in March to Mist Form. https://en.uesp.net/wiki/Online:Mist_Form

Vampirism runs into the challenge that it can easily end up being meta.

The early design was quite good in PvE if I recall and the latest design is quite good in PvP.

Both make improvements to it challenging because you don't want people to feel forced to be Vampires.

Personally, I think they should try attempting to deal with Vampirism success in PvP via enhancements to the Fighter's Guild line and the addition of some weapon sets that are specifically good against them. This would allow for a lever that could quickly be adjusted without impacting PvE significantly.

DrNukenstein wrote: »

being mortal, or a werewolf needs to be made competitive.

Vampirism is a skill line with immensely useful passives that are active all the time, and skills that essentially allow any class to multiclass into nightblade. That's very good.

What if werewolf was reworked to be more like vampirism with passives that are active all the time, and skills that can be used out of werewolf form but are enhanced in werewolf form? What if werewolf form was a recastable 20 second buff with nice secondary effects?

What if fighters and mages guild skills were for mortals only? This becomes way more palatable with increasing access to class sourced Msav/Proph

Without that competition between multiple mutually exclusive character states, vampirism could only be nerfed to uselessness.

To be fair, the issues with the current iteration of Vamp fall squarely on ZOS' shoulders. The whole reason for the Vamp Rework in Greymoor was so that people would stop running it passively for the bonuses. By buffing Undeath they made it even more desirable to just run it passively for their bonuses.

DrNukenstein wrote: »

being mortal, or a werewolf needs to be made competitive.

Vampirism is a skill line with immensely useful passives that are active all the time, and skills that essentially allow any class to multiclass into nightblade. That's very good.

What if werewolf was reworked to be more like vampirism with passives that are active all the time, and skills that can be used out of werewolf form but are enhanced in werewolf form? What if werewolf form was a recastable 20 second buff with nice secondary effects?

What if fighters and mages guild skills were for mortals only? This becomes way more palatable with increasing access to class sourced Msav/Proph

Without that competition between multiple mutually exclusive character states, vampirism could only be nerfed to uselessness.

Yeah there definitely needs to be an advantage to staying mortal. The kiss curse method of balancing werewolf and vamp clearly isn't working. Especially since the curse was dramatically nerfed for mortals too. I know people are hesitant of another troll king meta but health regen really was the only reason you didn't go vamp even back then. Now everyone has the only vamp curse effect in pvp.

autocookies wrote: »

DrNukenstein wrote: »

being mortal, or a werewolf needs to be made competitive.

What if fighters and mages guild skills were for mortals only? This becomes way more palatable with increasing access to class sourced Msav/Proph

Please don't do that all my toons are both vampires and werewolves... and my necro would be completely worthless without fighters guild buffs....

Could introduce a dawnguard skill line only available to mortals. Unlikely without a major chapter update, but thematically it would work and create the least amount of salt with the player base. Fighters guild could also be made more actually fighter oriented too instead of the weird niche it occupies now. Only problem is the fighters guild quest line and the dawnbreaker ultimate might feel weird cause ZoS already sort of conflated the dawnguard with the fighters guild.

Undeath passive needs to be nerfed, because it's pretty much a requirement on any pvp build at this point, and the other vampire abilities need buffs.

Also what about the werewolf improvements? They're in a worse spot than necromancers, and that's saying a lot.

Twohothardware wrote: »

All the vampire passives need to be tied to slotting vampire skills. None should be active without.

100% this. Especially Undeath. Tie it to the number of vampire abilities you have on your bar for the effect, say 5% damage reduction per ability so a full bar gives the full effect.

Agree with the buffs to mortals and werewolves, but then vamp below stage 3 might also need a bit of a rework regarding the penalties

Panderbander wrote: »

100% this. Especially Undeath. Tie it to the number of vampire abilities you have on your bar for the effect, say 5% damage reduction per ability so a full bar gives the full effect.

I wish these skills actualy did something

I found the rework terrible, the skillline has more negative things than positive, for example the fear of the skill line, the target has to be looking at you... which is inconsistent in PvP, while the werewolf has a fear without any requirement of position... I've already tried to use the vampire's fear, but you spend a lot of resources to be able to give a CC... the only class that benefits very well from the skill line are nightblades, and tanks due to the use of the passive...

Edit: The fight guilds ''Turn Evil'' skill is even better than the vampires' ''Mesmerize'' skill, which doesn't make much sense...

NuarBlack wrote: »

Could introduce a dawnguard skill line only available to mortals. Unlikely without a major chapter update, but thematically it would work and create the least amount of salt with the player base. Fighters guild could also be made more actually fighter oriented too instead of the weird niche it occupies now. Only problem is the fighters guild quest line and the dawnbreaker ultimate might feel weird cause ZoS already sort of conflated the dawnguard with the fighters guild.

This is a very interesting idea, I fully support it.