Can’t find any updates or improvements for vampires

Animar111

Vampire seems less updated than necromancer, I was hoping for some skill balance or set improvements or additions.

CameraBeardThePirate

Vampire is all but mandatory in PvP. They shouldn't receive any buffs until Undeath receives a needed nerf.

chessalavakia_ESO

Vampirism did get some changes back in March to Mist Form. https://en.uesp.net/wiki/Online:Mist_Form

Vampirism runs into the challenge that it can easily end up being meta.

The early design was quite good in PvE if I recall and the latest design is quite good in PvP.

Both make improvements to it challenging because you don't want people to feel forced to be Vampires.

Personally, I think they should try attempting to deal with Vampirism success in PvP via enhancements to the Fighter's Guild line and the addition of some weapon sets that are specifically good against them. This would allow for a lever that could quickly be adjusted without impacting PvE significantly.

DrNukenstein

being mortal, or a werewolf needs to be made competitive.

Vampirism is a skill line with immensely useful passives that are active all the time, and skills that essentially allow any class to multiclass into nightblade. That's very good.

What if werewolf was reworked to be more like vampirism with passives that are active all the time, and skills that can be used out of werewolf form but are enhanced in werewolf form? What if werewolf form was a recastable 20 second buff with nice secondary effects?

What if fighters and mages guild skills were for mortals only? This becomes way more palatable with increasing access to class sourced Msav/Proph

Without that competition between multiple mutually exclusive character states, vampirism could only be nerfed to uselessness.

CameraBeardThePirate

DrNukenstein wrote: »

being mortal, or a werewolf needs to be made competitive.

Vampirism is a skill line with immensely useful passives that are active all the time, and skills that essentially allow any class to multiclass into nightblade. That's very good.

What if werewolf was reworked to be more like vampirism with passives that are active all the time, and skills that can be used out of werewolf form but are enhanced in werewolf form? What if werewolf form was a recastable 20 second buff with nice secondary effects?

What if fighters and mages guild skills were for mortals only? This becomes way more palatable with increasing access to class sourced Msav/Proph

Without that competition between multiple mutually exclusive character states, vampirism could only be nerfed to uselessness.

To be fair, the issues with the current iteration of Vamp fall squarely on ZOS' shoulders. The whole reason for the Vamp Rework in Greymoor was so that people would stop running it passively for the bonuses. By buffing Undeath they made it even more desirable to just run it passively for their bonuses.

autocookies

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NuarBlack

DrNukenstein wrote: »

being mortal, or a werewolf needs to be made competitive.

Vampirism is a skill line with immensely useful passives that are active all the time, and skills that essentially allow any class to multiclass into nightblade. That's very good.

What if werewolf was reworked to be more like vampirism with passives that are active all the time, and skills that can be used out of werewolf form but are enhanced in werewolf form? What if werewolf form was a recastable 20 second buff with nice secondary effects?

What if fighters and mages guild skills were for mortals only? This becomes way more palatable with increasing access to class sourced Msav/Proph

Without that competition between multiple mutually exclusive character states, vampirism could only be nerfed to uselessness.

Yeah there definitely needs to be an advantage to staying mortal. The kiss curse method of balancing werewolf and vamp clearly isn't working. Especially since the curse was dramatically nerfed for mortals too. I know people are hesitant of another troll king meta but health regen really was the only reason you didn't go vamp even back then. Now everyone has the only vamp curse effect in pvp.

autocookies wrote: »

DrNukenstein wrote: »

being mortal, or a werewolf needs to be made competitive.

What if fighters and mages guild skills were for mortals only? This becomes way more palatable with increasing access to class sourced Msav/Proph

Please don't do that all my toons are both vampires and werewolves... and my necro would be completely worthless without fighters guild buffs....

Could introduce a dawnguard skill line only available to mortals. Unlikely without a major chapter update, but thematically it would work and create the least amount of salt with the player base. Fighters guild could also be made more actually fighter oriented too instead of the weird niche it occupies now. Only problem is the fighters guild quest line and the dawnbreaker ultimate might feel weird cause ZoS already sort of conflated the dawnguard with the fighters guild.

DrNukenstein

+1 for dawnguard or vigilant of stendarr skill line for mortals.

IncultaWolf

Undeath passive needs to be nerfed, because it's pretty much a requirement on any pvp build at this point, and the other vampire abilities need buffs.

Also what about the werewolf improvements? They're in a worse spot than necromancers, and that's saying a lot.

Twohothardware

All the vampire passives need to be tied to slotting vampire skills. None should be active without.

Panderbander

Twohothardware wrote: »

All the vampire passives need to be tied to slotting vampire skills. None should be active without.

100% this. Especially Undeath. Tie it to the number of vampire abilities you have on your bar for the effect, say 5% damage reduction per ability so a full bar gives the full effect.

Tyrant_Tim

Panderbander wrote: »

Twohothardware wrote: »

All the vampire passives need to be tied to slotting vampire skills. None should be active without.

100% this. Especially Undeath. Tie it to the number of vampire abilities you have on your bar for the effect, say 5% damage reduction per ability so a full bar gives the full effect.

I would be okay with this if Vampire had a burst heal morph of Vampiric Drain, that worked like Coagulating Blood, and if the fear did something else on top of just stunning things that look at you… which might I add is impossible to use as positional desync completely destroys the ability. Then after those are made functional, I would also love to see Sated Fury changed to heal you for a percentage of your damage done instead of increasing your damage.

Right now, Mist Form and Eviscerate are the only universally usable skills on Vampire, it’s pretty bad when even the ultimate is a joke.

Vaqual

Agree with the buffs to mortals and werewolves, but then vamp below stage 3 might also need a bit of a rework regarding the penalties

Twohothardware

Panderbander wrote: »

Twohothardware wrote: »

All the vampire passives need to be tied to slotting vampire skills. None should be active without.

100% this. Especially Undeath. Tie it to the number of vampire abilities you have on your bar for the effect, say 5% damage reduction per ability so a full bar gives the full effect.

Getting the Undeath passive out of Cyrodiil outside of pure vampire builds would be a huge help. 30% damage reduction is just way too much when every player in PvP has it.

AlterBlika

Panderbander wrote: »

100% this. Especially Undeath. Tie it to the number of vampire abilities you have on your bar for the effect, say 5% damage reduction per ability so a full bar gives the full effect.

I wish these skills actualy did something

Aardappelboom

CameraBeardThePirate wrote: »

Vampire is all but mandatory in PvP. They shouldn't receive any buffs until Undeath receives a needed nerf.

I stopped using it, DK skills are fire based and they hit hard enough as it is, never been hapier to be honest, haven't looked back ever since. I wouldn't mind a nerf, but people are overrating it as well, just saying.

Mr_Jord_Joe

I found the rework terrible, the skillline has more negative things than positive, for example the fear of the skill line, the target has to be looking at you... which is inconsistent in PvP, while the werewolf has a fear without any requirement of position... I've already tried to use the vampire's fear, but you spend a lot of resources to be able to give a CC... the only class that benefits very well from the skill line are nightblades, and tanks due to the use of the passive...

Edit: The fight guilds ''Turn Evil'' skill is even better than the vampires' ''Mesmerize'' skill, which doesn't make much sense...

Panderbander

AlterBlika wrote: »

Panderbander wrote: »

100% this. Especially Undeath. Tie it to the number of vampire abilities you have on your bar for the effect, say 5% damage reduction per ability so a full bar gives the full effect.

I wish these skills actualy did something

Oh I agree, the vampire abilities range from useful (mist form) to hot garbage (vamp stun). In order for my suggestion to work the line would need a rework to actually work.

The thing is, though, that the passives offered by vampire are all so incredibly good it's practically required to run it in PVP. No sneak movement penalty and reduced sneak cost, free weapon damage, undeath, sprint to go invisible with reduced sprint cost... they're just straight augments to everything while still giving access to every other ability and passive in the game. Vampires analog curse (lycanthropy) has none of that and is incredibly restricted on what it can and can't use and what it benefits from.

i11ionward

NuarBlack wrote: »

Could introduce a dawnguard skill line only available to mortals. Unlikely without a major chapter update, but thematically it would work and create the least amount of salt with the player base. Fighters guild could also be made more actually fighter oriented too instead of the weird niche it occupies now. Only problem is the fighters guild quest line and the dawnbreaker ultimate might feel weird cause ZoS already sort of conflated the dawnguard with the fighters guild.

This is a very interesting idea, I fully support it.