Could we get an explanation for this?

Panderbander · August 2023

Some time back during the PTS when ZOS was beginning to hand out Major Berserk like candy I brought up the fact that Werewolf is typically unable to proc it with Hircine's Rage because of onerous requirements, and when we do it comes with the baggage of a 5% damage taken debuff. It was greeted with the following @ZOS_Kevin response:

Fast forward to the most recent patch and we see this gem:

Could someone enlighten me how when we spoke up about our buff we were told it needs a downside because of the duration but Nightblades now have the exact same buff for the exact same duration with no downside at all while also being easier to proc?

While we're at it, how about this?

This happened during the exact same patch and a request for clarification as to why a spec with zero snare removal and limited access to Major Expedition had its only method of keeping targets within range removed was met with deafening silence.

Does anyone at ZOS actually play werewolf? I mean on the live server, with real players. Does anyone bring it into pvp? I can't imagine anyone that has spent even a small modicum of time on a werewolf could come to the conclusion that it is in need of nerfs.

For reference:

Major Berserk and Minor Resolve for Werewolves

Erickson9610 · August 2023

I'd like some sort of explanation for why Hircine's Rage has the "if you are at full Health" requirement for Major Berserk. Here are the reasons I think the Health requirement for Major Berserk should be removed:

Hircine's Bounty grants Stamina when cast at full Health, and its morphs also do the same.
- The difference is that Hircine's Fortitude grants its recovery buffs at any Health, while Hircine's Rage only grants its damage buff at 100% Health. This is an inconsistency with each morph, and it might be an oversight.
Hircine's Rage already has a "kiss-curse" — the 5% extra damage taken is meant to balance the buff for the duration.
Hircine's Rage is an expensive Magicka skill, and werewolves cannot restore Magicka with heavy attacks. It is also their only direct healing skill. Werewolves get around 3 casts of Hircine's Rage before running out of Magicka. Hircine's Rage currently must be cast at 100% Health to grant the damage buff. Werewolves only have access to melee skills and a gap closer, so they will likely be affected by Damage over Time and Area of Effect abilities by being near enemies. Werewolves also have no snare purge, so they can't outrun enemies that utilize snares.
- This means that Werewolf players take a gamble while in combat and burn one of their remaining heals for a chance to receive the damage buff. In PvE and PvP content alike, Werewolf players are seldom at 100% Health when they have no access to damage shields or Heal over Time abilities.

CameraBeardThePirate · August 2023

There is no explanation besides the fact that NBs are the "golden boy" of ESO. That's really it, just very obvious class bias.

WrathOfInnos · August 2023

To be fair, the change to Major Berserk was a nightblade nerf. Previously Concealed Weapon gave a unique 10% damage increase, which could be stacked with other sources of Major Berserk for 20% damage. Now they cap out at 10%, and don’t benefit from things like using a Storm Atronach synergy or casting Wrecking Blow. They also cannot effectively use Kinras or Heem-has sets now.

The main thing issue I see with Nightblade skills now is that Reapers Mark is ineffective. Why would anyone cast a debuff to get 10s of Major Berserk after killing an enemy, when their main spammable also gives 10s of Major Berserk on every cast?

Necrotech_Master · August 2023

WrathOfInnos wrote: »

To be fair, the change to Major Berserk was a nightblade nerf. Previously Concealed Weapon gave a unique 10% damage increase, which could be stacked with other sources of Major Berserk for 20% damage. Now they cap out at 10%, and don’t benefit from things like using a Storm Atronach synergy or casting Wrecking Blow. They also cannot effectively use Kinras or Heem-has sets now.

The main thing issue I see with Nightblade skills now is that Reapers Mark is ineffective. Why would anyone cast a debuff to get 10s of Major Berserk after killing an enemy, when their main spammable also gives 10s of Major Berserk on every cast?

yeah i agree

theres a lot of other problems with reapers mark too, can only be applied to 1 target so basically useless in pve (as it also applies a debuff thats common from tanks)

also only applying to 1 target is useless in pvp too when fighting a zerg, not to mention the skill itself is a huge telegraph the target is...well being targeted

Erickson9610 · August 2023

I expect Reaper's Mark will be revisited in the next update. I hope that they give Reaper's Mark a unique 10% damage taken debuff to affected enemies, whether or not it only applies to PvE enemies. There have been threads discussing the two redundant sources of Major Berserk in Nightblade's toolkit, so I at least hope it has been brought to the dev team's attention.

We know that the combat dev team doesn't like classes having multiple sources of the same buff in their toolkit. For instance, when Empower was changed, it took the dev team time to remove one of the two sources of Empower from Templar's toolkit. They will likely remove one of the two sources of Major Berserk in Nightblade's toolkit next update.

I do think that when the combat team made this change to Concealed Weapon, meaning to nerf it, they failed to consider Reaper's Mark. Furthermore, they failed to consider Hircine's Rage and the double standards they've imposed. I hope they address these issues in the next PTS cycle.

Panderbander · August 2023

WrathOfInnos wrote: »

To be fair, the change to Major Berserk was a nightblade nerf. Previously Concealed Weapon gave a unique 10% damage increase, which could be stacked with other sources of Major Berserk for 20% damage. Now they cap out at 10%, and don’t benefit from things like using a Storm Atronach synergy or casting Wrecking Blow. They also cannot effectively use Kinras or Heem-has sets now.

The main thing issue I see with Nightblade skills now is that Reapers Mark is ineffective. Why would anyone cast a debuff to get 10s of Major Berserk after killing an enemy, when their main spammable also gives 10s of Major Berserk on every cast?

The issue I'm raising here isn't whether or not this was a buff or nerf to Nightblades, but rather the double standard such a change has introduced (as @Erickson9610 stated). Prior to it being Major Berserk an argument could be made that it was a unique buff and therefore exempt from the reasoning behind having a downside and difficult proc condition as in Hircine's Rage, but with the change to it giving the same buff as Hircine's Rage without a downside or difficult proc condition then either the downside and difficulty to proc should be applied to the NB Major Berserk or, ideally, Hircine's Rage should be updated to match the new, lower standard to get the buff.

The same argument could be made in regards to DK or Wrecking Blow as well, though it's been my experience that neither DK nor Wrecking spammers are in a particularly bad spot.

Oblivion_Protocol · August 2023

I promise you right now that the response (if you get one) will be something along the lines of this:

“We would like to address the recent change to Concealed Weapon, along with concerns about balance. Keep in mind that Concealed Weapon’s Major Berserk buff can only be achieved when you activate the skill while you also have the Major Expedition buff. As this is a fairly rare and not long lasting buff, we felt that the short window of opportunity to gain Major Berserk provided enough of a drawback to justify the change in the name of maintaining balance among skills. In this case, the team felt that the balance comes from either having to slot an extra skill or wearing a set of gear that grants Major Expedition rather than a different offensive or defensive bonus.”

merpins · August 2023

Bad example. the change to nightblades was a nerf. They didn't just get major berserk. They got a unique 10% damage buff removed and replaced with Major Berserk.

Panderbander · August 2023

I'll put this here for folks then:

Ways nightblades can get Major Berserk (10s) off Concealed Weapon

1) Cast concealed weapon while under the effects of Major Expedition. Major Expedition can be sourced from many different things easily attainable by a Nightblade including, but not limited to: Refreshing Path and variants, Bow passive, Channeled Acceleration and variants, sets such as Adept Rider.
2) Exiting stealth.
3) Exiting Invisibility. This can be sourced from several things including, but not limited to: Cloak (with no opportunity cost to slot now as it gives major crit), sprint as a stage 4 vampire, potions, sets.

Ways werewolves can get Major Berserk (10s) off Hircine's Rage

1) Cast Hircine's Rage while at 100% health. Casting with even 1 less HP than full health will give no benefit.

This Major Berserk is coupled with a 5% damage taken debuff for the duration.

Panderbander · August 2023

merpins wrote: »

Bad example. the change to nightblades was a nerf. They didn't just get major berserk. They got a unique 10% damage buff removed and replaced with Major Berserk.

Please read my previous post. I'm not talking about whether or not this was a buff or nerf for nightblade, I am talking about the double standard that has been introduced regarding accessing a MAJOR NAMED BUFF given previous information provided by @ZOS_Kevin

Erickson9610 · August 2023

Yes, it was a nerf to Nightblades, but now we can use what it is now to justify why Werewolf needs to be revisited by the developers. Nightblades can still be buffed in other ways, most likely by the developers revisiting Reaper's Mark.

Double standards are being employed here and it is incredibly unfair to us Werewolf players.

FantasticFreddie · August 2023

It's because it's canon ESO lore that werewolves are stinky, and therefore the devs just don't like them. All that wet fur.