Major Berserk and Minor Resolve for Werewolves

Panderbander

I know, I know, nobody cares about werewolves but can we talk about these buffs, please?

With the new patch everyone will be getting easy access to Major Berserk without requiring the use of a set via the changes to Wrecking Blow and DK Chains. Werewolf has had access to this via the Hircine's Rage ability but with a severe downside (taking more damage while the buff is active) and only if the ability is cast at full health. Neither of the new sources of Major Berserk have this downside or this requirement.

I primarily PVP, and while this is coming from the view of a "furry roleplayer" in PVP, this affects the PVE side as well: Even a single point of damage will cause the Major Berserk to not apply and thus completely waste the magicka spent on the ability (as healing one point for 4k magicka is... well... bad). Can we please just remove these hoops to jump through just to get the buff? Hircine's Fortitude applies its minor buffs on every cast with no downside after their application already; this treatment should be applied to Hircine's Rage.

As for Minor Resolve, this is one of those things that is a holdover from the last patch: Literally every single playstyle in the game has easy access to this buff through either Resolving Vigor or Blessing of Restoration. All, that is, except for werewolves. This really needs to either be baked into werewolf or one of its abilities because as it is we are currently the least survivable spec in the game on the basis of armor.

Let's not forget that at one point Werewolves legitimately had more armor than any other spec in the game. The things that made that broken have been nerfed, can we please at least get back up to par with the other classes/playstyles

(In before werewolf isn't a class: I know, but do you know of an ultimate that requires 19 skill points to make use of?)

Erickson9610

I agree that it's simply too easy for regular classes to get Major Berserk and Minor Resolve. Those buffs can be acquired via skills that any class in the game can slot -- every class except werewolves.

As a werewolf PvE and PvP player, I agree that the condition to get Major Berserk is strict. It's useful when you're parsing a trial dummy that can't attack back, but it's less useful when you're attacking enemies in melee range where they're likely to hit you.

Now, I do want to say that the recent changes to Howl of Despair on Week 1 of the PTS have been inspiring. We can finally get Minor Force without the use of a set like Tzogvin's Warband or Oakensoul. In fact, a lot of the Werewolf skills have been giving us access to buffs that most classes already have.

Without overtuning it, I would like to see werewolves brought within a fair performance margin as the standard classes -- as close as they can get with just one bar for skills, that is.

atl8691

Interesting that Werewolves still have this downside for getting Major Berserk even with the upcoming new patch.

sneakymitchell

Should remove the debuff from hircine ‘s rage. Bit tedious and annoying when you take 5% more damage from everything when clearly 10% increase damage done isn’t that much to begin with

huskandhunger

I definitely care about werewolves and feel a consistent approach should be carried out for this buff @ZOS_GinaBruno @ZOS_Kevin can we please look into updating the Hircine's Rage ability Major Berserk morph to remove the 5% penalty since Wrecking Blow and the DK chains are being updated in a similar direction? 🙂

Panderbander

I feel that removing both the 5% damage taken and the requirement that the ability be cast at full health would make more sense than just removing the 5% damage taken. It's just so clunky to use right now since it requires you to be in absolute perfect health to get it to proc. Neither of the new sources have that requirement.

selig_fay

I have another question that relates to werewolves. Can the white form get an aura support? Increasing spell/weapon damage is good, but I think it's not enough to buff other wolves (well, and other humanoids xD)

Wuuffyy

sneakymitchell wrote: »

Should remove the debuff from hircine ‘s rage. Bit tedious and annoying when you take 5% more damage from everything when clearly 10% increase damage done isn’t that much to begin with

In addition to this. Needs to be like 80% or higher vs full. One dot tick and my cast just wasted 5-6k resource.

Wuuffyy

And just like that, this post is gone basically. Really is unfortunate having very little care given to non-meta playstyles.

Panderbander

We already get that through the whopping +25% poison damage taken, being locked to a single bar, and locked to using only werewolf abilities. Vamp's "curse" meanwhile is nearly completely negated by their own passives.

Kiss/curse is an asinine, outdated system at this point in the game. It just doesn't hold up for interesting or enjoyable gameplay.

Removing the +damage taken and the ridiculous full-health requirement would merely bring the ability in line with similar abilities that have no downsides or requirements whatsoever.

Jammy420

Panderbander wrote: »

We already get that through the whopping +25% poison damage taken, being locked to a single bar, and locked to using only werewolf abilities. Vamp's "curse" meanwhile is nearly completely negated by their own passives.

Kiss/curse is an asinine, outdated system at this point in the game. It just doesn't hold up for interesting or enjoyable gameplay.

Removing the +damage taken and the ridiculous full-health requirement would merely bring the ability in line with similar abilities that have no downsides or requirements whatsoever.

who are you replying to? O.o

Panderbander

Jammy420 wrote: »

Panderbander wrote: »

We already get that through the whopping +25% poison damage taken, being locked to a single bar, and locked to using only werewolf abilities. Vamp's "curse" meanwhile is nearly completely negated by their own passives.

Kiss/curse is an asinine, outdated system at this point in the game. It just doesn't hold up for interesting or enjoyable gameplay.

Removing the +damage taken and the ridiculous full-health requirement would merely bring the ability in line with similar abilities that have no downsides or requirements whatsoever.

who are you replying to? O.o

It was a reply to your post above mine that was edited and appears gone now so now I look like I'm ranting lol

Tommy_The_Gun

Tbh After seeing how they changed vampire mist form to a universal mobility teleport/blink, it would have been so awesome if they did something similar to WW's Pounce.

Imagine that. You pick a location and jump. No target required. Can be used defensive. Can be used offensively. Non-laggy & no delay as it does not require a target. You just jump (leap) to the target location.

And it would even fit. After landing you hit it again (if there is target nearby) to trigger Brutal / Feral Carnage.

Erickson9610

Tommy_The_Gun wrote: »

Tbh After seeing how they changed vampire mist form to a universal mobility teleport/blink, it would have been so awesome if they did something similar to WW's Pounce.

Imagine that. You pick a location and jump. No target required. Can be used defensive. Can be used offensively. Non-laggy & no delay as it does not require a target. You just jump (leap) to the target location.

And it would even fit. After landing you hit it again (if there is target nearby) to trigger Brutal / Feral Carnage.

I would absolutely love if Pounce allowed us to choose our target location. As long as it still counts as a gap closer, this would be a fun change.

Panderbander

Tommy_The_Gun wrote: »

Tbh After seeing how they changed vampire mist form to a universal mobility teleport/blink, it would have been so awesome if they did something similar to WW's Pounce.

Imagine that. You pick a location and jump. No target required. Can be used defensive. Can be used offensively. Non-laggy & no delay as it does not require a target. You just jump (leap) to the target location.

And it would even fit. After landing you hit it again (if there is target nearby) to trigger Brutal / Feral Carnage.

This would be nice but it would be awful if the ability still morphed into Brutal Carnage after the fact. Going from a ground targeted ability to a target-targeted ability would feel clunky.

Better would be to make the ability simply apply the Brutal Carnage dot to whatever got hit by pounce rather than requiring a second cast. That way the pounce would be usable as a proper gap closer.

Melzo

Why is it petty?? Maybe we'll give all the buffs in the game to the werewolf.

Erickson9610

Melzo wrote: »

Why is it petty?? Maybe we'll give all the buffs in the game to the werewolf.

Well, at least we can't use Major/Minor Heroism.

We already choose which buffs we want via skill morph choice (such as with Hircine's Rage giving Major Berserk and Hircine's Fortitude giving Minor Endurance and Minor Fortitude), so we can't stack all of the buffs on a single build.

However, I would like to see Minor Resolve added to the Savage Strength passive. The passive has two ranks, so granting us Minor Resolve on the first rank and Major Resolve on the second rank would be beneficial to all werewolf builds, and would closer resemble how the passive used to be while bringing werewolves closer in power level to the other classes.

Panderbander

Erickson9610 wrote: »

Melzo wrote: »

Why is it petty?? Maybe we'll give all the buffs in the game to the werewolf.

Well, at least we can't use Major/Minor Heroism.

We already choose which buffs we want via skill morph choice (such as with Hircine's Rage giving Major Berserk and Hircine's Fortitude giving Minor Endurance and Minor Fortitude), so we can't stack all of the buffs on a single build.

However, I would like to see Minor Resolve added to the Savage Strength passive. The passive has two ranks, so granting us Minor Resolve on the first rank and Major Resolve on the second rank would be beneficial to all werewolf builds, and would closer resemble how the passive used to be while bringing werewolves closer in power level to the other classes.

That would be an excellent way to implement minor resolve without reworking an ability.

Wuuffyy

Panderbander wrote: »

Erickson9610 wrote: »

Melzo wrote: »

Why is it petty?? Maybe we'll give all the buffs in the game to the werewolf.

Well, at least we can't use Major/Minor Heroism.

We already choose which buffs we want via skill morph choice (such as with Hircine's Rage giving Major Berserk and Hircine's Fortitude giving Minor Endurance and Minor Fortitude), so we can't stack all of the buffs on a single build.

However, I would like to see Minor Resolve added to the Savage Strength passive. The passive has two ranks, so granting us Minor Resolve on the first rank and Major Resolve on the second rank would be beneficial to all werewolf builds, and would closer resemble how the passive used to be while bringing werewolves closer in power level to the other classes.

That would be an excellent way to implement minor resolve without reworking an ability.

I would too; especially as long as it remains on vigor.

Panderbander

Wuuffyy wrote: »

I would too; especially as long as it remains on vigor.

Resolving Vigor is exactly the reason we need Minor Resolve. Every class gets it so easily now (between that and Blessing of Protection) that it legitimately makes WW the weakest spec in the game in terms of armor count.

Melzo

Panderbander wrote: »

Wuuffyy wrote: »

I would too; especially as long as it remains on vigor.

Resolving Vigor is exactly the reason we need Minor Resolve. Every class gets it so easily now (between that and Blessing of Protection) that it legitimately makes WW the weakest spec in the game in terms of armor count.

This is not an argument. This skill is not required. The fact that most of it takes does not mean that it is absolutely necessary for a werewolf. I do not take it on the magical necromancer. I have as many as three skills for healing and I simply have nowhere to insert this skill. Also, all classes have access to major protection, which gives 10 percent protection. Give it to Werwolf too? Not all classes receive both buffs described in the title. I don't get either buff on my magical necromancer. And this applies to all classes. Just because they are meta doesn't mean that every player runs with them.

Melzo

Want to use these buffs? Use a mythical item and a monster set.

huskandhunger

Melzo wrote: »

Want to use these buffs? Use a mythical item and a monster set.

want a poop emoji 💩

Melzo

It annoys me that players are clamoring for generic class buffs without realizing that they are unique and shouldn't be so common. I would understand if werewolves needed a new mechanic or buff for a certain aspect of the game, but you ruin the game by buffing werewolves or classes.

You must request a change to change the gameplay and also change the werewolf model. Because she looks like a skinny monkey, not a werewolf.

For example, the werewolf did not generate an ult, but rage, and a combination of certain buttons activated the werewolf's ult at the expense of rage points, an analogue of ult points. This is what I understand as a very good gameplay change. And your suggestion is very tasteless.

Melzo

huskandhunger wrote: »

Melzo wrote: »

Want to use these buffs? Use a mythical item and a monster set.

want a poop emoji 💩

Decent answer. I see you have been thinking for a long time.

Melzo

I don't mind changing werewolves. And I described what and in this section and feedback classes. But you offer nonsense.

Panderbander

I'm not asking for it to be given as a full uptime thing. I'm saying our access to it needs to be improved. Our options for Minor Resolve are a monster set with an okay up time at best (plus a wasted proc) and... Yeah that's it. Not to mention, the single bar nature of werewolf precludes us from taking advantage of two sets, a mythic, and a monster set like everyone else because we can't split a five piece with a back bar.

When a single spec is excepted nearly entirely from a buff that everyone else can get without trouble (since they come from universal skill lines), there's a problem and it should be addressed. Clearly it's not meant to be a rare buff at this point.

Erickson9610

Melzo wrote: »

This is not an argument. This skill is not required. The fact that most of it takes does not mean that it is absolutely necessary for a werewolf. I do not take it on the magical necromancer. I have as many as three skills for healing and I simply have nowhere to insert this skill. Also, all classes have access to major protection, which gives 10 percent protection. Give it to Werwolf too? Not all classes receive both buffs described in the title. I don't get either buff on my magical necromancer. And this applies to all classes. Just because they are meta doesn't mean that every player runs with them.

I think werewolves should have Minor Resolve added to the Savage Strength passive to bring it a bit closer to how it used to be -- albeit, it will never be nearly as strong as it used to be because the armor comes from named buffs now.

However, I'm hesitant to believe that werewolves also need Major Protection; if anything, that should be a rare buff, not passively granted for slotting Revealing Flare. Major Protection is huge compared to Minor Resolve.

Wuuffyy

Also, making the bleed dot from berserker actually have a chance at proc’ing bleed. This is absolutely not a ‘feature’ by any of the game’s standards and should be fixed.

Tommy_The_Gun

Tbh. I don't think those buffs would change much. I mean look at WW skills and all of those buffs you get. Despite all of those things that look extremely OP on paper, WW isn't actually used that much. I would even say that it is kinda underperforming.

The only thing imho that WW needs and would be a game changer is if WW had access to skill similar to race against time, that gives you CC immunity. WW is supposed to be fast, but despite 30% speed bonus it is actually the slowest spec in the game, as every single snare slows you down.

Panderbander

Tommy_The_Gun wrote: »

Tbh. I don't think those buffs would change much. I mean look at WW skills and all of those buffs you get. Despite all of those things that look extremely OP on paper, WW isn't actually used that much. I would even say that it is kinda underperforming.

The only thing imho that WW needs and would be a game changer is if WW had access to skill similar to race against time, that gives you CC immunity. WW is supposed to be fast, but despite 30% speed bonus it is actually the slowest spec in the game, as every single snare slows you down.

Werewolf is absolutely underperforming. To be honest, the entire thing needs a proper rework considering how many issues it has, things like:

• Brutal Pounce not always swapping to Brutal Carnage after pouncing.
• Brutal Carnage requiring a target in range to cast, yet it's a conal AOE that can be easily ranged and thus rarely hits in PVP
• Claws of Life being our only pseudo-"heal over time" and the return on that being so small as to not be noticeable, even on multiple targets.
• The obscene cost of werewolf abilities in relation to their damage done, which seems to have been balanced with the extra 30% stamina in mind though that gives very little extra damage or ability uses in practical use.
• The damage of werewolf abilities being often lower than similar abilities of base classes despite this extra ability cost.
• Werewolf having a unique 30% movement speed buff but without snare removal we actually move slower than base classes (all of which can access snare removal).
• Both morphs of our heal being tied to max health while our damage is tied to weapon damage and max stamina/magicka, meaning we're forced to split stats more than anyone else (which leads to the common complaint about werewolves having 40k+ HP).
• Pounce routinely leaping us at gods know what because when we land there certainly isn't anything there (anyone that's played long enough has seen this).
• An inability to stealth (some hunters we are) or detect stealth (some enhanced senses we have).
• No ability to synergize with other werewolves despite a timer minigame that clearly wants us to run with other werewolves.
• THE [snip] TIMER MINIGAME.
• Next to no weapon passives carrying over to werewolf form despite there being no indication that this is the case and causing a lack of interesting choices when building our character.
• No proper heal over time meaning that while we have to stay aggressive to keep our timer up, we can't afford to do so because there is no passive healing.
• Health recovery (which WAS our heal over time) has been completely gutted.
• An inability to run both a monster set and a mythic while running two five-pieces because we can not split sets with a back bar.
• Our fear occasionally only applying off balance on non-CC immune targets.
• No ability to recover magicka, leading to an inordinate use of magicka recovery in our builds or heavy armor (for pvp at least)
• No ultimate and no way to combo with our abilities (it's all pure pressure) despite seemingly every single werewolf themed set in the game offering ultimate generation/cost reduction. (I know about Savage Werewolf)
• ...and there's more.

I don't expect ZOS to ever fix werewolf (or even vampire tbh) to be a proper playstyle and not just some meme'd on RP ability, but perhaps someone might see this and actually take the time to look into improving things for us. Those of us that still play werewolves don't really have any other choice for playing this in another game; there just aren't any good variations of werewolves out there. All I want is for us to be at least on par with the middle of the field.

TL;DR: Werewolf has a lot of problems, more than just these buffs.

[Edited for Censor Bypass]