Why have so many veteran players left the game recently?

Esha76 · August 2023

Stamicka wrote: »

Esha76 wrote: »

So, just because Steam's graph shows some data from a very select period of time, in addition to many of our experiences of watching people not return to the game.... It does not conclude that people are leaving. But does give cause for concern and reason to look into what is actually going on. Again, only ZOS can answer that. Unless they do, all we can do here is speculate and talk about our personal experiences and observations.

I disagree, there are many indicators outside of "hard data" to answer whether or not veteran players are leaving. First, the forums reflect this. There is way less activity in the PvP sections of the forums and even in the combat/PvE section.

You can look at: leaderboards, queue times, Cyrodiil populations, ESOlogs, large discords, and more. Every single one of those things is seeing less activity than before. If you are apart of the veteran community, it is very easy to see how things are changing. You don't need the exact numbers to see it.

Disagree all you want, you're still wrong. Without "hard data" you have nothing more than speculation. End of discussion.
Just because it looks like people are leaving (even from the various questionable sources you want to throw at me), doesn't mean that they are leaving in droves.

As I stated in my post: I believe that vets are leaving, have seen it myself, and am a vet myself who has seriously dropped off my playing time... I never claimed there weren't changes happening. [snip]

I said that without hard data you have nothing more than speculation and reason to look into the changes. That's all you have whether you like it or not. I never said things aren't changing, quite the opposite actually. [snip]

[edited for baiting]

SilverBride · August 2023

pklemming wrote: »

U35...If they kept a happier player base, they would have had more people and a higher overall income.

Keeping the player base happy isn't an easy task when you consider that not everyone plays the same way or has the same idea of what is fun. The best that can be done is to provide something for all the play styles and hope that the majority enjoy it.

valenwood_vegan · August 2023

Esha76 wrote: »

[snip]

[snip]

Anyway, I do agree with you saying there's nothing that rises to the level of proof (only ZoS has the data and they're not going to share it with us), but there are absolutely a lot of players experiencing similar signs of veteran player population loss, and it *should* be concerning. Though I think ZoS' business model seems to be more focused on churning new players through the game regularly, so I'm not sure how much it matters to them, unfortunately.

[edited for flaming & to remove quote]

Wing · August 2023

because its been a decade and ZOS is doing nothing new.

its just a revenue generator with enough updates to keep that going.

anytime you ask for a change or question why something is the way it is, or if we can get something new. you get the same:

"nope the game is tricky and we cannot do any of that, but keep spending all the same money your spending!"

*holds out hands expectantly*

. . .

no.

we made an all new zone with all new stuff! its pretty much a copy paste of everything you did last year!

-2 new companions that are no better then any other and still die when you do anything hard.

-new delves that function the same as all the others, here is your 1 skyshard in a dungeon, and its one and done quest.

-here are your 2 group dungeons with their time sink collectables

-here are your list of dalies, achievements for grinding out 30 (again) and no motif until later so we can waste your time and get some more grind out of literally doing nothing but keeping things from you for a while.

-here is a color or two, the rest will go into all the hard vet content for that 5% that want to sell caries.

-here is your main quest that will go nowhere, its a massive end of the world battle between deadric princes (again) for the fate of the world-ish (again) and it wont succeed because we all know it wont (again( because we played TES games before.

-here are your gold antiquity leads that you get ever 5 feet for harvesting a rock and its for some gold 10 piece chore of a collectathon for some cosmetic music box or different looking crafting station for your house. . .

-here are your world bosses, there now small group events with immunity phases and drawn out combat so you dont kill them too fast.

-oh by the way this is all made worse by our left click combat and design by spreadsheet balancing that has made such boring and repetitive combat that people just click skills out of apathy and want the combat to be over and done with.

this game is not black desert BTW, or even FF14. this games combat is not fun or engaging at its core design to try and build long or epic fights around, as it is inherently boring. you can only care so much when your just holding left click and pressing a button so you don't die every once in a while.
you dumbed down your combat and gameplay to the point that engaging with them is literally boring and you feel like your wasting your time playing ESO.

you dont log on for the game,
you log on because there is an event going on that you feel you NEED to participate in.
you log on because there are dalies to do
a weekly to do
writs to do
chores to do . . .

Game Fail.

Warhawke_80 · August 2023

Esha76 wrote: »

Stamicka wrote: »

Esha76 wrote: »

So, just because Steam's graph shows some data from a very select period of time, in addition to many of our experiences of watching people not return to the game.... It does not conclude that people are leaving. But does give cause for concern and reason to look into what is actually going on. Again, only ZOS can answer that. Unless they do, all we can do here is speculate and talk about our personal experiences and observations.

I disagree, there are many indicators outside of "hard data" to answer whether or not veteran players are leaving. First, the forums reflect this. There is way less activity in the PvP sections of the forums and even in the combat/PvE section.

You can look at: leaderboards, queue times, Cyrodiil populations, ESOlogs, large discords, and more. Every single one of those things is seeing less activity than before. If you are apart of the veteran community, it is very easy to see how things are changing. You don't need the exact numbers to see it.

Disagree all you want, you're still wrong. Without "hard data" you have nothing more than speculation. End of discussion.
Just because it looks like people are leaving (even from the various questionable sources you want to throw at me), doesn't mean that they are leaving in droves.

As I stated in my post: I believe that vets are leaving, have seen it myself, and am a vet myself who has seriously dropped off my playing time... I never claimed there weren't changes happening. [snip]

I said that without hard data you have nothing more than speculation and reason to look into the changes. That's all you have whether you like it or not. I never said things aren't changing, quite the opposite actually. [snip]

Well if it makes you feel any better...I did a double quote search on google and found that stunningly similar topics have been posted ever since the game launched....I have a feeling this exact topic will be posted in 2030.

[edited to remove quote]

pklemming · August 2023

SilverBride wrote: »

pklemming wrote: »

U35...If they kept a happier player base, they would have had more people and a higher overall income.

Keeping the player base happy isn't an easy task when you consider that not everyone plays the same way or has the same idea of what is fun. The best that can be done is to provide something for all the play styles and hope that the majority enjoy it.

... and they did such an awesome job of keeping the player base happy... That nerf was specifically targeted towards the end game community, although the effects were seen in other areas, and the knock on effect is still being felt now, with those people now looking for mid to endgame trials realising there is no spot for them.

U35 was the worst thing to happen to ESO in a long time. All these people have memories too. not just of this, but all the other unrequested changes. When they lose people to changes like that, I doubt they will ever consider coming back, regardless of the incentives.

How about we talk about the unrequested tri-focus and ancient knowledges changes this time. Won't affect me one iota, but those that could now enter content due to the Oakensorc builds, will now find that they do both less dps and are far, far more fragile than they were. This helps them? or anyone? All it helps is Zos, to push Arcanist on more people.

AK and Trifocus were fine for how long? Now they are not(apparently). Way to go to help those disabled people who could finally enter vet content, who had a little more sturdiness to help counter issues they may have had playing the game.

At least we know this is not targeted to any group, they just want to have a smaller player base, or more money. These do seem somewhat mutually exclusive.

Whomever is making these decisions for an 11 year old game needs to have a serious rethink. The free accounts helps artificially inflate the numbers in ESO, but that won't last too long. Seeing drop off of these numbers and people on these new accounts leaving. Nothing quite like enticing people to the game, for a major nerf to hit several weeks later. They are not even trying to help the players, it is one money grab, after another, without any consideration for the long-term health of the game.

It is not as though this is too hard to do. Other games manage it fine. Yes, there are upsets, but not to this degree or with this level of frequency

ProudMary · August 2023

Lylith wrote: »

i judge the state of the game by my friends list and guild lists.

i've been here since beta and less than ten of my friends remain.

half of them only log on sporadically when there's a new chapter.

guild chat is minimal, at best.

new players may be fueling the game but, in my experience, a LOT of the old school folks are gone.

even in cyrodil, only a couple of the people i started with are still there.

Same for me. I only have a few left on my friends list that log in regularly now. And my friends list is over 70 players. My guilds are having a tough time keeping up membership too, even the two major trade guilds I'm in.

ProudMary · August 2023

reazea wrote: »

What does ESO offer to the veteran game community? What does ZOS do to encourage player retention?

Good points. Anyone have an answer to these questions?

SilverBride · August 2023

Wing wrote: »

because its been a decade and ZOS is doing nothing new.

One Tamriel was a major change.
Housing was added.
Geysers, Harrowstorms and Vents replaced dolmens.
Companions were added.
Two new classes have been added.
ToT was added.
Bastion Nymics were added.
An Endless Dungeon is being added.

Wing wrote: »

we made an all new zone with all new stuff! its pretty much a copy paste of everything you did last year!

Why change a winning formula?

Maddoghalo1 · August 2023

I currently only play in small bits here and there, but I did leave for awhile. Reason I left was I got a PC and I atempted to make a new character but all the time I put in for trials, crown purchases, achievements, skills, unlocks etc. I was not going to spend all those hours again to do it. So if I had to start over without being able to use cross save or transfer, then I chose to rather start over on a different game. So I played other games on my PC for awhile and cancelled membership.

I only came back recently because necrom was on sale so I hopped on my xbox to play it. When my ESO month is up though and I finish the map, I cant guarantee I will continue playing. It is really hard to continue to play this on my xbox now that I have a PC.

I bet there are a lot of others in a similar situation or they just cant play with friends due to different equipment. Heck look at Bungie, they abuse their players left and right and people still throw their money at them and play, all because its highly accessible. You can play on any platform, console or PC, go back and fourth, cross save/cross play. Although expansions you have to own on that platform you wish to play that content. Thats what ESO is missing. That kind of accessibility and freedom to play.

mandricus · August 2023

I don't know for the others, but to me u35 was the reason I decided to quit. I still come back sometimes on this forum to check if anything has changed, but looks like patch after patch they decided that there is no turnback to some of the questionable changes they did (templar jabs, flurry animation, dots, damage overnerf, almost every class stripped down of their unique identity and playstile, and so on). Talking in general, I was playing since beta and I was very pissed over the years about the fact that every class has been stripped down and completely gutted patch after patch, to the point that any single class is today a pale comparison of what it was originally. During the years I've seen sorcs lose their overload 3rd bar, nightblades lose their instant cast incap, dragonknights lose their wings, Templar lose their jabs. Every iconic, distinctive, unique and fun ability has been stripped down the road in the process of the continuous and pointless swinging yoyo combat changes, nerfed to the ground and replaced with boring and meaningless abilities, completely changing some of the core concepts of the original game (very distinctive rock / paper / scissors class mechanics, or the unique and very different playstile of a Stamina / Magicka spec of every class that got lost in the hybridization process). U35 was just the final straw, the one that made me finally say "enough is enough".

Necrotech_Master · August 2023

Ingenon wrote: »

SilverBride wrote: »

Braffin wrote: »

...content difficulty was toned down repeatedly...

I find the exact opposite to be the case.
World bosses have become increasingly more difficult.

Dolmens were replaced with Geysers, Harrowstorms and Vents.

DLC dungeons are longer and more difficult than base game dungeons.

Story bosses are more difficult and have mechanics and invulnerable phases so the fights take longer.

Bastion Nymics were introduced.

^ This.

I solo'ed a dolmen with a level 4 arcanist using Forgotten Adventurer gear. No way I could solo a Geyser or Harrowstorm with a level 4 wearing starter gear.

ive never tried soloing a harrowstorm with a lowbie, but i have solo'd a geyser with a lowbie

the most recent new toon (the arcanist) i did what i usually do and go into IC at lvl 10 and basically stay there until lvl 50 unless i need more skill pts lol (i even solo'd a banner boss at lvl 14 with random picked up gear, no sets)

definitely one of the more difficult things ive experienced besides straight up trial hard modes lol

BlueRaven · August 2023

Why are people leaving?

There is nothing to do and there won’t be for another six months.
Delve and wb quests get old fast if the rewards are awful like in Necrom.
Necrom World Events have been turned into dungeons and dungeons are not popular.
No content in 3rd or 4th quarters, except for an endless dungeon which is not a draw for most people.
1st quarter will be yet another dungeon pack.

Why stay subbed? My yearly pass ends in 200 days, and honestly I am finding it harder and harder to log in each day. Do writs, do endeavors, check messages, log out.

Why stay online? Unless you are into dungeons there is nothing to do.

AndreNoir · August 2023

SilverBride wrote: »

Why change a winning formula?

It's not a winning formula. Winning formula was: new game mode each DLC (Imperial City, Sacrements, Heists, Arena, Battlegrounds) on top of really good story. Also dungeon DLCs have had a small complete story unlike nowadays "no time to talk rush until last boss"

SaffronCitrusflower · August 2023

SilverBride wrote: »

Wing wrote: »

because its been a decade and ZOS is doing nothing new.

One Tamriel was a major change.
Housing was added.
Geysers, Harrowstorms and Vents replaced dolmens.
Companions were added.
Two new classes have been added.
ToT was added.
Bastion Nymics were added.
An Endless Dungeon is being added.

Wing wrote: »

we made an all new zone with all new stuff! its pretty much a copy paste of everything you did last year!

Why change a winning formula?

For veteran/end game PvE and PvP players it's NOT a winning formula. It's all about monetization of the players that aren't worn out on the formula now.

Warhawke_80 · August 2023

SaffronCitrusflower wrote: »

SilverBride wrote: »

Wing wrote: »

because its been a decade and ZOS is doing nothing new.

One Tamriel was a major change.
Housing was added.
Geysers, Harrowstorms and Vents replaced dolmens.
Companions were added.
Two new classes have been added.
ToT was added.
Bastion Nymics were added.
An Endless Dungeon is being added.

Wing wrote: »

we made an all new zone with all new stuff! its pretty much a copy paste of everything you did last year!

Why change a winning formula?

For veteran/end game PvE and PvP players it's NOT a winning formula. It's all about monetization of the players that aren't worn out on the formula now.

So...and correct me please if I'm wrong...you are talking about Veteran Dungeon Trial and PVPers I just want to reiterate that is a small portion of the overall player base in the vast majority of MMO's, I get that every group is important, but if you have say 5% of the player base that are hardcore Veteran Trial players....that isn't an incentive for the developers to focus more on Veteran Trails.

I'm not trying to make anyone's Head explode...it's just logical.

Jammy420 · August 2023

I started playing Diablo much more. The story is short, and there is work to be done, but at least the campaign still requires practice for players to progress.

Honestly do not have much reason to stick around. Was initially very happy with Necrom and the new server hardware, but the main portion of the game is so un engaging, and simple, I have no drive really to play any more. PvP is dead outside events, and balance is a joke, and arcanists got nerfed faster than any class in history.

Diablo has a lot of work that needs to be done, at least they are listening to feedback from everyone though, instead of one group of players over all the other.

WrathOfInnos · August 2023

Short answer is: the developers have not been catering to veteran players for a while. It takes effort to retain any group of players, and this segment has not been prioritized.

Think about Mythics, when was the last time we got one that rewarded skill? Maybe Harpooner's Wading Kilt in Blackwood over 2 years ago. Since then we had:
- Moras Whispers, which rewards lorebook collectors and helps low CP players grind exp, decent set but braindead to use and low power ceiling
- Oakensoul, which buffed single bar and heavy attack builds, while being completely useless for veteran players who have learned how to perform bar swaps and manage 10 skills
- Velothi, which rewards players who do not light attack weave

How about systems?
- Companions, great for casual players and role play, useless for vets
- Tales of Tribute, basically a slow alternative to playing ESO

And new classes?
- Just Arcanist in the last 4 years, which is by far the lowest APM class. The meta rotation involves pressing no buttons for 5-6s at a time, with a few skills sprinkled between beam channels. It has some nice QoL features like not relying on expensive potions, but is clearly not designed for veteran players

New content?
- I will admit DSR was an excellent trial, visually and mechanically, and credit where due, it kept veteran players entertained for most of 2022
- Sanity's Edge I cannot say the same. Environments are boring and reused, mechanics are cheesy or easy, incoming damage is just stacked, random and unfair. This experience drove away many vets
- Dungeons, they've been alright, but we now get fewer each year, and they don't take long to progress

AzuraFan · August 2023

I'm not a veteran player in the sense that I run vet content and trials, but I've been playing the game pretty regularly for a few years now. I'm still here, but I don't spend much time in-game beyond doing daily writs and endeavors. Lately I've spent some extra time doing master writs, digging up treasure maps, and doing surveys, all to whittle down my inventory/bank in case I cancel ESO+.

My time in the game decreased considerably when AwA happened and it never recovered. I've tried to take new alts through the story content, since that's what I enjoy most, but it's just not the same when most of the zone map is already marked as complete. So I focus on my main, but it doesn't take long to complete new story content.

The other thing that's making me wonder how long I'll stick around is that the game is becoming a lot more grindy. Yes, there's always been grind, but now game systems that used to be fun/okay are a grind. For example, antiquities. Now you have to dig up 10-15 items that are gated behind treasure maps, or ToT, etc. to complete a mythic. So that's one system that used to keep me interested that I've pretty much given up on.

I'll check out the endless dungeon, but I'm not really the target audience because I don't like ESO dungeons as a rule, and I'll be trying the endless one with a companion. ZOS says it will be doable, but I'm worried it'll be a slog. Even if it isn't, I can't see myself spending copious amounts of time just fighting enemy after enemy after enemy.

It does bum me out because I really love the game and pre-AwA I could see myself playing it for years. But not anymore. Doesn't help that 2023 is a blockbuster year for RPGs, and one of the single-player games I've been playing for a few months now (Midnight Suns) is superb and probably in my top 10 games of all time, and I've been gaming since the 80's so that's high praise. Just can't get enough of it.

I guess ESO has just grown stale for me. I'm hanging on for now, but other games are pulling me away (and Starfield could be the nail in the coffin if it's good).

Anyway, just my $0.02.

Lugaldu · August 2023

I think that this new concept of reduced content in favor of bug fixes (I prefer not to talk about QoL, because I didn't see anything of it with U39) will generally not have a positive effect on the number of players. In general, society tends to want something "new and exciting" more and more quickly, quantity over quality as far as the eye can see, sad but true. If ESO doesn't follow this trend, things will only go downhill.

Kenrixx · August 2023

For me basically its lack of new PvP content. Sure they add PvE things every year but tbh its still the same content, ive got tired of tryharding raids, new sets etc so im mainly play pvp for like 3 years now. It's sad to see that developers just abandoned PvP in this game, we dont even get new BGs map for like 3 or 4 years by now. I really hope they add anything next year. My dream would be something like cyrodill rework cuz its really REALLY outdated.

FoJul · August 2023

TybaltKaine wrote: »

I can't speak for everyone, but dissatisfaction with the direction of the game moving forward, the constant yo-yo nerfs and combat changes, the over correction of sets and skills based on niche uses in both PVE and PVP, and the ramping up of difficulty in new content while hamstringing the ability of the player to deal enough damage to compete when playing solo all seem to be leading causes.

I won't even get into the crown store and the predatory pricing practices born from it.

People walk away when the game they are investing into is no longer worth that investment.

High isle was the greatest patch in 4 years, for about 1 patch cycle. Change my mind. Even with the crazy ring that was released...there was more ppl to fight and every build no matter what skills they were using was viable.

There obviously was some exploiters *Cough cough DKS* to oaken soul, but that coulda been fixed separately instead we nerfed the ring that made all builds viable. With oaken there still was a restriction. Your using only 5 skills and an ultimate.

PvP I have more fun on BDO/WoW to be completely honest. They have did nothing to address the mass zerg gameplay in PvP.

I honestly have no idea how a casual, or new player can get into the PvP system as it is not very rewarding to new players either. Especially with class in balance and Proc sets doing to much damage. Just hop in a zerg i guess. Thats what TRUE pvp is!

darvaria · August 2023

The proc sets are just drastic in PVP. No idea why they didn't make the no proc campaign a CP campaign. Look at the population there ........complete fail.

I'll hang around to see if we get something special for our 10 year mark. But I play less and less. Almost no one I played with 2014-2020 ever logs on. I have 3 guilds that used to have 50 plus and now 1 or 2 on.

There is is just too much reliance on gear. There are what? over 600 gear sets now. Ball groups pair them up and that really leaves no chance for newer players. You don't see many vet players running in mobs now unless they are in a group, mostly a ball group.

Just came back from a long break. Am already cutting back again. I'll log in and get my CP to 2100, but you can do that only playing with inspiration.

Another thing, players in Cyro are rezzing themselves now. Is this working as intended? Or an exploit?

Plus we hear of players getting banned and immediately logging back in on other accounts saying they "beat the ban". Banned for serious offenses, like "making rl threats towards other players". And yes they are back in game. Everyone that plays GH on all 3 factions KNOWS they are back. If we ALL know, surely ZOS would look into this.

alcoraptor · August 2023

For me, it's the prevalence of bugs and glitches that make content way harder than it should be.

Take VDSR as an example - the amount of wipes we've had on the first boss because the interrupts go through the boss rather than hitting it.
Or the block issue that took, what, 7 patch iterations? to fix, leading to countless tank deaths (and therefore group wipes).
Or the inventory menu issue where it didn't update unless you switched between inventory and craft bag that wasn't fixed for several weeks
Or the concerns around U35 that were totally ignored
Or the recent queue issue where people couldn't log in that went on all weekend...

What makes it worse, though, is ZOS's apparent apathy towards these problems.
They've admitted on these forums that they need to improve communication, but they never do.
These issues get reported (many of them on the PTS!), and we're met with a wall of silence and often several weeks of the issue before it eventually gets fixed.

So many of the people I used to run vet content with have left the game citing these issues that it's become nearly impossible to run content with the same team every week.
It used to be that we'd have no trouble finding fills, too, but even that has got so difficult that we've had to shut down all but one of the teams.

Unfortunately, it's become a bit of a vicious cycle.

Alinhbo_Tyaka · August 2023

Warhawke_80 wrote: »

SaffronCitrusflower wrote: »

SilverBride wrote: »

Wing wrote: »

because its been a decade and ZOS is doing nothing new.

One Tamriel was a major change.
Housing was added.
Geysers, Harrowstorms and Vents replaced dolmens.
Companions were added.
Two new classes have been added.
ToT was added.
Bastion Nymics were added.
An Endless Dungeon is being added.

Wing wrote: »

we made an all new zone with all new stuff! its pretty much a copy paste of everything you did last year!

Why change a winning formula?

For veteran/end game PvE and PvP players it's NOT a winning formula. It's all about monetization of the players that aren't worn out on the formula now.

So...and correct me please if I'm wrong...you are talking about Veteran Dungeon Trial and PVPers I just want to reiterate that is a small portion of the overall player base in the vast majority of MMO's, I get that every group is important, but if you have say 5% of the player base that are hardcore Veteran Trial players....that isn't an incentive for the developers to focus more on Veteran Trails.

I'm not trying to make anyone's Head explode...it's just logical.

I agree that the high end players are a small percentage of the player base but within guilds they are frequently the people who do low level runs for new players and provide , I use the term loosely, mentoring to help them develop skills and an understanding of the game. While it is natural to create content for the largest audience it does not help the game to ignore the player groups that provide the support new players look for. Without them many new players end up quitting due to ESO's lack of in-game guidance.

FluffyBird · August 2023

Lugaldu wrote: »

I think that this new concept of reduced content in favor of bug fixes (I prefer not to talk about QoL, because I didn't see anything of it with U39) will generally not have a positive effect on the number of players. In general, society tends to want something "new and exciting" more and more quickly, quantity over quality as far as the eye can see, sad but true. If ESO doesn't follow this trend, things will only go downhill.

I just doubt that a big bugfix once a year will solve the problem of ZOS releasing buggy and unpolished content and taking eternity to fix things.
Also, ESO isn't even about quantity - a same-y chapter with reskinned story, a dlc and 4 dungeons wasn't awfully much for a year, especially when they already saved resources sticking to a formula and reusing assets within one yearly theme.

M0ntie · August 2023

[snip]
They don't listen to player feedback from PTS and release the updates with much complained about issues from the PTS.
eg. Not being able to leave an instance while in combat - which is a workaround for many very annoying ZoS bugs.

They ripped players hard work off by not rewarding the end of campaign rewards including an event by pushing the campaign end date out by nearly a month.

The game is too buggy. Here are some major ones that impact daily play. The game has been horrible to log into. There are many disconnects and then it takes ages for people to log back in. Also new features are bugged. eg. Pillagers, nice new set being widely used, is bugged for weeks (applies buff to pets instead of players) before being fixed. And now after U39 Sanity's Edge is bugged - groups prog'ing it have stopped because of the bugs.

U35 caused many players who have invested a lot in the game to leave and not come back. There was a lot of feedback to ZoS prior to this, but they ignored too much of it.

There are some nice new things. I love the arcanist. The new Cyro death reports in chat make it seem more alive and help players connect, as you'd want in PvP.

[edited for bashing]

AzuraFan · August 2023

M0ntie wrote: »

[snip]

I agree. [snip]

And it's everyone who's hurting. Not just veteran endgamers. It's casuals/PvE players (PvE systems becoming more grindy, AwA, less story content, etc.), PvP (nothing new for years), and yes, the endgamers (constant drastic build changes etc.). I feel for the devs because the direction is likely coming from up above and they're stuck with it.

I get the sense that while the game isn't in maintenance mode, there are fewer resources on it, and whoever is setting the priorities has no clue what players are looking for. Ah well.

[edited for bashing & to remove quote]

The_Lex · August 2023

TybaltKaine wrote: »

I can't speak for everyone, but dissatisfaction with the direction of the game moving forward, the constant yo-yo nerfs and combat changes, the over correction of sets and skills based on niche uses in both PVE and PVP, and the ramping up of difficulty in new content while hamstringing the ability of the player to deal enough damage to compete when playing solo all seem to be leading causes.

I won't even get into the crown store and the predatory pricing practices born from it.

People walk away when the game they are investing into is no longer worth that investment.

This accurately describes why I left, except that I would add the sheer lack of any meaningful attention given to PvP.

Gray_howling_parrot · August 2023

AzuraFan wrote: »

M0ntie wrote: »

[snip]

I agree. [snip]

And it's everyone who's hurting. Not just veteran endgamers. It's casuals/PvE players (PvE systems becoming more grindy, AwA, less story content, etc.), PvP (nothing new for years), and yes, the endgamers (constant drastic build changes etc.). I feel for the devs because the direction is likely coming from up above and they're stuck with it.

I get the sense that while the game isn't in maintenance mode, there are fewer resources on it, and whoever is setting the priorities has no clue what players are looking for. Ah well.

I’m largely with ya here, but a few gripe points:

I definitely believe everyone is getting actively damaged by their updates. A lot of their reasoning doesn’t even align with anything players ask for too.

1. I absolutely love account wide achievements. I think there should be an option to show account achievements or only show character, but for me personally, I love this because I went from only wanting to play one class to playing many because I didn’t feel like I was 100% starting over after working so hard to get 45k achievement points.

2. They stated many times that this year would be largely bug fixes and all that so the story content is definitely sparse. Hope this doesn’t continue to be this sparse moving forward. I wish we had smaller updates every couple months rather than waiting for quarterly updates that don’t add anything worthwhile (cough cough U39).

3. They’re actively developing another MMO, so your feelings are almost positively right. I’m sure a lot of money that comes from ESO is going towards that game rather than back into the game we are trying to support. Im definitely giving them the benefit of the doubt for this year BUT they better come out swinging big time for their 10 year anniversary or they’re gunna lose a LOT of people

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