Why Craft bag is still locked behind a paid subscription

alternatelder · August 2023

It's like asking for free car insurance because you own the car.

I_killed_Vivec · August 2023

So the argument goes "I want it for free because I don't want to pay!"... yeah, we can all see why that won't wash.

"OK, make it a one-off crown store purchase like a DLC"... "But I can't afford more crowns, it's bad enough buying DLC and chapters!"

"OK, make it so that you can buy it for in game gold"... "That's not fair, he's been playing for years and has millions. I've only just started and can't afford it!".

"OK, make it so that you have to do some super hard content to win it"... "That's not fair, I have arthritic hands and they just nerfed my HA petsorc build!".

"OK, make it a random drop for an antiquity lead"... "That's not fair, I've been farming it for ages and it hasn't dropped. The RNG gods hate me!"

Meanwhile ZoS goes: "The purchase cost of the game, chapters and DLC covers development costs. ESO+ pays the rent. And the crown store is pure gravy. We won't be changing anything."

SpacemanSpiff1 · August 2023

i'd reckon it's to incentivize subscribing. i'm not an expert though.

wolfie1.0. · August 2023

Melivar wrote: »

The reasons everyone always bring up about the craft bag being seperate from ESO+ are the same reasons it will likely always stay part of ESO+

While for 50% of the people the other benefits might still be worth it if the craft bag was seperate 50% of the people who do sub would choose the cheaper option for the craft bag. I likley would and would just periodically sub to ESO plus when I needed to farm gear from a DLC dungeon.

That stat is probably higher than 50%. I would argue that craft bag reason for subs is at least 70%

wolfie1.0. · August 2023

laniakea_0 wrote: »

honestly, I think the craft bag should be treated like the paid DLC. you can get full access through ESO+ or get it through a one-time purchase.
Additionally, I can also imagine a way to earn it through playing the game but it should not be free for everyone and it should not be easy to get (so not like the armory station. the furnishing should've been obtainable from Rolis Hlaalu like all the other stations and instead there should've been an armory station placed next to ever Outfit station in the every zone in the game).
This would be my idea:
make it like the inventory and bank space upgrades and unlock the full craft bag in stages paid with gold. the final stage should give you the regular craft bag with unlimited storage, but before then it should just give you a set amount of slots per stage. there are also some interesting ways you can obtain some of the later stages. while it makes sense to get the early upgrades like that, even in a world like ESO where people can carry around entire households worth of items in their inventory, there should eventually be a physical size limit many stages before you unlock the full bag just because of just how large it is. you could explain it so that the later stages can only be obtained by magical means. now you could do that for all stages until it's fully unlocked, or you could make it far more complex and therefore, more difficult and more expensive to obtain.
for example: you could split the upgrades into categories and you would have to upgrade each crafting category individually. and aside from just gold, you would have to provide materials from which an NPC can craft your upgrades. for the magical upgrades, you may even need to obtain rare ingredients (which would be a new item) that you can obtain from tough encounters. especially the stages almost at the end would require ingredients from end game content like PvP or Dungeons, Arenas and even Trials. and then there is the matter of the final upgrade, where you upgrade a category from a finite amount of slots to an infinite amount of slots. since that's a special one I can imagine some extra tasks that would be needed. you could be tasked to obtain a certain amount of crafting materials that belong to that category for and "attunement" process so it can hold an infinite amount of it. For Blacksmithing that would require: Rubedite Ore, Rubedite Ingots, Honing Stone, Dwarven Oil, Grain Solvent, Tempering Alloy and Regulus. I'm talking about significant amounts. basically that for all the crafting categories.
Of course it makes sense to spread out that many different upgrades over several NPCs so they kinda need a proper location to be at. fortunately, there already is an ideal location in the game. The Belkarth Festival Grounds in Craglorn. that whole area is crafting themed and it's in neutral territory with a cart in every alliance capital that can bring you there. it could maybe use a redesign. make it larger to give each upgrade NPC a more elaborate, better decorated space and add additional NPC to make the place more a live. a few Mages-Towers would also be appropriate since they'll need a place to conduct the magical upgrades. (those upgrades could grant you an item that you need to bring back to the upgrade NPC to attach it to your bag). you could even connect it all with entire questlines about retrieve tools, attracting crafters or unlocking magical rituals for the later upgrades. so many opportunities for achievements, titels, dyes and bonus rewards. even room for dailies and unique items (like crafting motifs). all this bonus content I just listed shouldn't be part of the directly paid or the ESO+ bag. so maybe a onetime paid option wouldn't be such a great idea after all. it would depend on the execution.

TL,DR: my point is that there is a lot that can be done with the craft bag if you could obtain it by playing the game. it doesn't need to be easy and in fact, it should be very hard to get the full bag because it's so very useful. it should make you trek through basically the entire game to get the full bag while still offering you a useful amount of inventory space in the early stages. you could get it as early as you have your crafting certifications and get to your alliance capital. The Craft Bag has the potential to become a huge system, it already is a real game changer, and ZOS could build an entire world around it if they wanted to. and because of the high difficulty and large amount of time, many people may still opt to use ESO+ for it instead. there could also be other ESO+ bonuses to replace the Craft Bag.

That's a lot of programing for very little ROI.

I_killed_Vivec · August 2023

wolfie1.0. wrote: »

laniakea_0 wrote: »

honestly, I think the craft bag should be treated like the paid DLC. you can get full access through ESO+ or get it through a one-time purchase.
Additionally, I can also imagine a way to earn it through playing the game but it should not be free for everyone and it should not be easy to get (so not like the armory station. the furnishing should've been obtainable from Rolis Hlaalu like all the other stations and instead there should've been an armory station placed next to ever Outfit station in the every zone in the game).
This would be my idea:
make it like the inventory and bank space upgrades and unlock the full craft bag in stages paid with gold. the final stage should give you the regular craft bag with unlimited storage, but before then it should just give you a set amount of slots per stage. there are also some interesting ways you can obtain some of the later stages. while it makes sense to get the early upgrades like that, even in a world like ESO where people can carry around entire households worth of items in their inventory, there should eventually be a physical size limit many stages before you unlock the full bag just because of just how large it is. you could explain it so that the later stages can only be obtained by magical means. now you could do that for all stages until it's fully unlocked, or you could make it far more complex and therefore, more difficult and more expensive to obtain.
for example: you could split the upgrades into categories and you would have to upgrade each crafting category individually. and aside from just gold, you would have to provide materials from which an NPC can craft your upgrades. for the magical upgrades, you may even need to obtain rare ingredients (which would be a new item) that you can obtain from tough encounters. especially the stages almost at the end would require ingredients from end game content like PvP or Dungeons, Arenas and even Trials. and then there is the matter of the final upgrade, where you upgrade a category from a finite amount of slots to an infinite amount of slots. since that's a special one I can imagine some extra tasks that would be needed. you could be tasked to obtain a certain amount of crafting materials that belong to that category for and "attunement" process so it can hold an infinite amount of it. For Blacksmithing that would require: Rubedite Ore, Rubedite Ingots, Honing Stone, Dwarven Oil, Grain Solvent, Tempering Alloy and Regulus. I'm talking about significant amounts. basically that for all the crafting categories.
Of course it makes sense to spread out that many different upgrades over several NPCs so they kinda need a proper location to be at. fortunately, there already is an ideal location in the game. The Belkarth Festival Grounds in Craglorn. that whole area is crafting themed and it's in neutral territory with a cart in every alliance capital that can bring you there. it could maybe use a redesign. make it larger to give each upgrade NPC a more elaborate, better decorated space and add additional NPC to make the place more a live. a few Mages-Towers would also be appropriate since they'll need a place to conduct the magical upgrades. (those upgrades could grant you an item that you need to bring back to the upgrade NPC to attach it to your bag). you could even connect it all with entire questlines about retrieve tools, attracting crafters or unlocking magical rituals for the later upgrades. so many opportunities for achievements, titels, dyes and bonus rewards. even room for dailies and unique items (like crafting motifs). all this bonus content I just listed shouldn't be part of the directly paid or the ESO+ bag. so maybe a onetime paid option wouldn't be such a great idea after all. it would depend on the execution.

TL,DR: my point is that there is a lot that can be done with the craft bag if you could obtain it by playing the game. it doesn't need to be easy and in fact, it should be very hard to get the full bag because it's so very useful. it should make you trek through basically the entire game to get the full bag while still offering you a useful amount of inventory space in the early stages. you could get it as early as you have your crafting certifications and get to your alliance capital. The Craft Bag has the potential to become a huge system, it already is a real game changer, and ZOS could build an entire world around it if they wanted to. and because of the high difficulty and large amount of time, many people may still opt to use ESO+ for it instead. there could also be other ESO+ bonuses to replace the Craft Bag.

That's a lot of programing for very little ROI.

It's a lot of work for a net loss.

As for the idea "there could also be other ESO+ bonuses to replace the Craft Bag"... how long before we hear "They get what? That's not fair, I want that without paying for it too!"

Inaya1 · August 2023

Personally, my opinion is that a subscription already gives too much, i.e. it gives you crowns and access to DLС. But.... zos just gives what should be in the game based on it, but at the same time it is cut out specifically for maximum inconvenience.

There is a lot of choice to improve it. Every week / half a month you will randomly receive beautiful outfits / mounts / skins.

choosing from the number of styles and materials already invented since the game was released, having a subscription is no longer just your choice whether you want it or not - IT'S BECOME A MANDATORY! Your inventory is literally crowded on the number of things, even if you stubbornly clean and throw out the excess. And if you don’t buy it, you may simply not be able to craft and, accordingly, have a desire to start twinks and be interested in other aspects of the gameplay.

Let's leave out the fact that you have your own 5 guildbanks, a catgirl in a maid costume and the desire to complete 1 random quest once a week. If you're just a player who just wants to PLAY, then the game literally forces you to do 5 times more work than is necessary. This is unacceptable.

I'm willing to pay for a new subscription if they include exclusive mounts/skins or outfits every 1-2 weeks instead of a bag. It will make sense.
But for now, I don't want to pay for it. The game literally forces me to do a lot of useless and x5 unnecessary actions to get the same result.

One interesting solution is a special sign in calendar for subscribers. Many collectibles, and the number of consumable items will increase by 3 times. The game will literally push you to play by fetching beautiful collectibles and not worrying about consumables.

Tandor · August 2023

I_killed_Vivec wrote: »

wolfie1.0. wrote: »

laniakea_0 wrote: »

honestly, I think the craft bag should be treated like the paid DLC. you can get full access through ESO+ or get it through a one-time purchase.
Additionally, I can also imagine a way to earn it through playing the game but it should not be free for everyone and it should not be easy to get (so not like the armory station. the furnishing should've been obtainable from Rolis Hlaalu like all the other stations and instead there should've been an armory station placed next to ever Outfit station in the every zone in the game).
This would be my idea:
make it like the inventory and bank space upgrades and unlock the full craft bag in stages paid with gold. the final stage should give you the regular craft bag with unlimited storage, but before then it should just give you a set amount of slots per stage. there are also some interesting ways you can obtain some of the later stages. while it makes sense to get the early upgrades like that, even in a world like ESO where people can carry around entire households worth of items in their inventory, there should eventually be a physical size limit many stages before you unlock the full bag just because of just how large it is. you could explain it so that the later stages can only be obtained by magical means. now you could do that for all stages until it's fully unlocked, or you could make it far more complex and therefore, more difficult and more expensive to obtain.
for example: you could split the upgrades into categories and you would have to upgrade each crafting category individually. and aside from just gold, you would have to provide materials from which an NPC can craft your upgrades. for the magical upgrades, you may even need to obtain rare ingredients (which would be a new item) that you can obtain from tough encounters. especially the stages almost at the end would require ingredients from end game content like PvP or Dungeons, Arenas and even Trials. and then there is the matter of the final upgrade, where you upgrade a category from a finite amount of slots to an infinite amount of slots. since that's a special one I can imagine some extra tasks that would be needed. you could be tasked to obtain a certain amount of crafting materials that belong to that category for and "attunement" process so it can hold an infinite amount of it. For Blacksmithing that would require: Rubedite Ore, Rubedite Ingots, Honing Stone, Dwarven Oil, Grain Solvent, Tempering Alloy and Regulus. I'm talking about significant amounts. basically that for all the crafting categories.
Of course it makes sense to spread out that many different upgrades over several NPCs so they kinda need a proper location to be at. fortunately, there already is an ideal location in the game. The Belkarth Festival Grounds in Craglorn. that whole area is crafting themed and it's in neutral territory with a cart in every alliance capital that can bring you there. it could maybe use a redesign. make it larger to give each upgrade NPC a more elaborate, better decorated space and add additional NPC to make the place more a live. a few Mages-Towers would also be appropriate since they'll need a place to conduct the magical upgrades. (those upgrades could grant you an item that you need to bring back to the upgrade NPC to attach it to your bag). you could even connect it all with entire questlines about retrieve tools, attracting crafters or unlocking magical rituals for the later upgrades. so many opportunities for achievements, titels, dyes and bonus rewards. even room for dailies and unique items (like crafting motifs). all this bonus content I just listed shouldn't be part of the directly paid or the ESO+ bag. so maybe a onetime paid option wouldn't be such a great idea after all. it would depend on the execution.

TL,DR: my point is that there is a lot that can be done with the craft bag if you could obtain it by playing the game. it doesn't need to be easy and in fact, it should be very hard to get the full bag because it's so very useful. it should make you trek through basically the entire game to get the full bag while still offering you a useful amount of inventory space in the early stages. you could get it as early as you have your crafting certifications and get to your alliance capital. The Craft Bag has the potential to become a huge system, it already is a real game changer, and ZOS could build an entire world around it if they wanted to. and because of the high difficulty and large amount of time, many people may still opt to use ESO+ for it instead. there could also be other ESO+ bonuses to replace the Craft Bag.

That's a lot of programing for very little ROI.

It's a lot of work for a net loss.

As for the idea "there could also be other ESO+ bonuses to replace the Craft Bag"... how long before we hear "They get what? That's not fair, I want that without paying for it too!"

Absolutely. Mind you, class change tokens restricted to subscribers would make for some interesting forum "discussions"

!

SilverBride · August 2023

The craft bag is very convenient which makes it a very desirable incentive to subscribe. It should remain an ESO+ perk.

wolfie1.0. · August 2023

Honestly, the issue of the craft bag is really not the root of the issue at hand.

What is is simply this, the crafting system is convoluted, redundant, and out of date with the context of the game.

After 1 or 2 characters reach cp range you can stop holding onto any mats that cp 10 to cp 140, and honestly those are probably a waste. Levels 1-50 well you can skip certian ranges or the whole thing if you are doing exp farm runs. Natural scaling makes it so that in groups you can run around in the gear you got from the tutorial and just be fine. Add on top of that the item set collection and recreation feature and the most valuable resource you need is

Provisioning has tons of items that you can farm, only to put them together into foods you either won't use, or are redundant.

Enchanting is set and forget, even after the rework years ago it still is bad. Consider this TA has more utility than jejota. In the whole, there are 3 mats worth farming in the whole tree. Hakeijo, kuta, and mundane. Every thing else is worthless until you need to craft a new set of gear.

Alchemy is the most used of the crafting trees, but has its flaws. Primarily it's unbalanced and players are only using certian ingredients. The devs have set it up so that all players just use a few potions and skip the rest.

Basically the whole system needs a rework.

It won't happen, or I will be surprised if it does.

The reason the devs created the craft bag was so they didn't have to deal with crafting rework, and get revenue.

Craft bag should never have been near infinite.

Necrotech_Master · August 2023

I_killed_Vivec wrote: »

wolfie1.0. wrote: »

laniakea_0 wrote: »

honestly, I think the craft bag should be treated like the paid DLC. you can get full access through ESO+ or get it through a one-time purchase.
Additionally, I can also imagine a way to earn it through playing the game but it should not be free for everyone and it should not be easy to get (so not like the armory station. the furnishing should've been obtainable from Rolis Hlaalu like all the other stations and instead there should've been an armory station placed next to ever Outfit station in the every zone in the game).
This would be my idea:
make it like the inventory and bank space upgrades and unlock the full craft bag in stages paid with gold. the final stage should give you the regular craft bag with unlimited storage, but before then it should just give you a set amount of slots per stage. there are also some interesting ways you can obtain some of the later stages. while it makes sense to get the early upgrades like that, even in a world like ESO where people can carry around entire households worth of items in their inventory, there should eventually be a physical size limit many stages before you unlock the full bag just because of just how large it is. you could explain it so that the later stages can only be obtained by magical means. now you could do that for all stages until it's fully unlocked, or you could make it far more complex and therefore, more difficult and more expensive to obtain.
for example: you could split the upgrades into categories and you would have to upgrade each crafting category individually. and aside from just gold, you would have to provide materials from which an NPC can craft your upgrades. for the magical upgrades, you may even need to obtain rare ingredients (which would be a new item) that you can obtain from tough encounters. especially the stages almost at the end would require ingredients from end game content like PvP or Dungeons, Arenas and even Trials. and then there is the matter of the final upgrade, where you upgrade a category from a finite amount of slots to an infinite amount of slots. since that's a special one I can imagine some extra tasks that would be needed. you could be tasked to obtain a certain amount of crafting materials that belong to that category for and "attunement" process so it can hold an infinite amount of it. For Blacksmithing that would require: Rubedite Ore, Rubedite Ingots, Honing Stone, Dwarven Oil, Grain Solvent, Tempering Alloy and Regulus. I'm talking about significant amounts. basically that for all the crafting categories.
Of course it makes sense to spread out that many different upgrades over several NPCs so they kinda need a proper location to be at. fortunately, there already is an ideal location in the game. The Belkarth Festival Grounds in Craglorn. that whole area is crafting themed and it's in neutral territory with a cart in every alliance capital that can bring you there. it could maybe use a redesign. make it larger to give each upgrade NPC a more elaborate, better decorated space and add additional NPC to make the place more a live. a few Mages-Towers would also be appropriate since they'll need a place to conduct the magical upgrades. (those upgrades could grant you an item that you need to bring back to the upgrade NPC to attach it to your bag). you could even connect it all with entire questlines about retrieve tools, attracting crafters or unlocking magical rituals for the later upgrades. so many opportunities for achievements, titels, dyes and bonus rewards. even room for dailies and unique items (like crafting motifs). all this bonus content I just listed shouldn't be part of the directly paid or the ESO+ bag. so maybe a onetime paid option wouldn't be such a great idea after all. it would depend on the execution.

TL,DR: my point is that there is a lot that can be done with the craft bag if you could obtain it by playing the game. it doesn't need to be easy and in fact, it should be very hard to get the full bag because it's so very useful. it should make you trek through basically the entire game to get the full bag while still offering you a useful amount of inventory space in the early stages. you could get it as early as you have your crafting certifications and get to your alliance capital. The Craft Bag has the potential to become a huge system, it already is a real game changer, and ZOS could build an entire world around it if they wanted to. and because of the high difficulty and large amount of time, many people may still opt to use ESO+ for it instead. there could also be other ESO+ bonuses to replace the Craft Bag.

That's a lot of programing for very little ROI.

It's a lot of work for a net loss.

As for the idea "there could also be other ESO+ bonuses to replace the Craft Bag"... how long before we hear "They get what? That's not fair, I want that without paying for it too!"

the eso+ perk i really want improved would be the transmute cap, i think the cap should be lifted entirely instead of just being doubled

there is almost no difference between a 500 and 1000 transmute cap if your always sitting at the cap with extra geodes floating around

karthrag_inak · August 2023

Khajiit is not sure what essintional means but whatever it is, this one doubts that it has anything to do with the craft bag.

me_ming · August 2023

laniakea_0 wrote: »

fact is, the Craft Bag is a game changer. a definitive P2W mechanic when it comes to crafting.

I feel like this sometimes too when I choose to drop my sub. But then, I just tell myself "you know what, I just have other priorities now. I'll just have to make with what I have for now." Then I don't feel bad anymore that others have ESO+ and I don't.

Malprave · August 2023

You guys that have been crafting for nine years without a craft bag are heroes! Every last one of you!

<snipped obscene language>

dcrush · August 2023

wolfie1.0. wrote: »

Honestly, the issue of the craft bag is really not the root of the issue at hand.

What is is simply this, the crafting system is convoluted, redundant, and out of date with the context of the game.

After 1 or 2 characters reach cp range you can stop holding onto any mats that cp 10 to cp 140, and honestly those are probably a waste.

Yup, but for some reason they still drop from daily crafting writs even if you’re maxed out.

Jaimeh · August 2023

Like most people said, it's the only enticing reason to subscribe... having access to DLCs and the extra crowns are not that worthwhile, especially since you can easily buy the DLC's and other stuff from the store with gold via crown gifting. If they removed the bag people wouldn't have a good enough incentive to sub, and since the game is free to play (besides the initial purchase, which is cheap and there's even been free promotions lately) the main revenue is the sub fee.

JanTanhide · August 2023

Can't have everything for free. Sub and get the perks.

Tornaad · August 2023

I have a dream of being able to take a single character and run around the entire continent of Tamriel. I have had that dream since I fell in love with the Elder Scrolls series when I got introduced to Elder Scrolls 3 Morrowind. ESO is the best chance of that ever happening and that will require it be profitable enough for ZoS to continue pumping money into it. So, I am fine with the craft bag being locked behind a pay wall.