Why Craft bag is still locked behind a paid subscription

ebix_

Out of all the things that ESO+ offers craft bag is the most essintional. I have hundreds of mats that each can become hundreds of stacks in normal inventory! there is just no way to normaly play without Craft bag and its still behind a paid wall.
Without Craft bag I can't even imagine doing daily writs or loot anything or decon items because it takes too much time to clean inventory after that.
If its possible please reconsider this benefit. You can even add a way to pay gold to activated Craft bag monthly which also works as a great gold sink for game.

TaSheen

Nope. If you want ESO+ benefits you need to sub.

Necrotech_Master

because its the only real major benefit of eso+, everything else is negligible in comparison

i would even consider not using eso+ if i could get the craftbag permanently and ive been subbed to the game for 9.5 years

i also bet theres going to be numerous posters who will also still have their experience of managing without a craftbag because it is possible (not something im wanting to do again, but possible)

Melivar

The reasons everyone always bring up about the craft bag being seperate from ESO+ are the same reasons it will likely always stay part of ESO+

While for 50% of the people the other benefits might still be worth it if the craft bag was seperate 50% of the people who do sub would choose the cheaper option for the craft bag. I likley would and would just periodically sub to ESO plus when I needed to farm gear from a DLC dungeon.

Ragnarok0130

Because the craft bag for easier inventory management is the main draw of ESO+ just like the scrap bin is for FO76.

valenwood_vegan

As has been mentioned, I think the issue is that many people would stop subbing (or greatly reduce the amount of time spent subbed) if not for the craft bag, *especially* now that the new yearly release schedule has less DLC than it used to.

I already stop subbing for a couple months a year (to make up the price of the new chapter), and it's always the lure of the craft bag that brings me back. If that were always available, I would cut my sub down to a month or two a year... when I feel like working on a new house or want to farm the newest dungeons.

valenwood_vegan

I mean, explaining why something is done a certain way does not equate to defending it. I'd love if they gave us the craft bag, and got rid of the crown store (especially crates) and made everything earnable in-game just by playing. I don't think they will though because at the end of the day they're a business.

ixthUA

I play without eso+ for years. 200 inventory space is enough to carry 3 gear sets, some crafting mats (excluding trait/style items), and do several dungeon runs before cleaning inventory. There are addons that auto clear inventory when i talk to a merchant. But i dont do writs.
I have 3 golden equipment sets that i made just by refining raw materials, so its not like i miss much without eso+.

ArchMikem

ebix_ wrote: »

[Snip]

This game isn't a once and done title, it's a Live Service, and ZOS needs continuous funding to continue the development. Hence putting something highly desired behind a Subscription. It may be sad for the consumer, but it's business.

[Edited for removed quote]

laniakea_0

honestly, I think the craft bag should be treated like the paid DLC. you can get full access through ESO+ or get it through a one-time purchase.
Additionally, I can also imagine a way to earn it through playing the game but it should not be free for everyone and it should not be easy to get (so not like the armory station. the furnishing should've been obtainable from Rolis Hlaalu like all the other stations and instead there should've been an armory station placed next to ever Outfit station in the every zone in the game).
This would be my idea:
make it like the inventory and bank space upgrades and unlock the full craft bag in stages paid with gold. the final stage should give you the regular craft bag with unlimited storage, but before then it should just give you a set amount of slots per stage. there are also some interesting ways you can obtain some of the later stages. while it makes sense to get the early upgrades like that, even in a world like ESO where people can carry around entire households worth of items in their inventory, there should eventually be a physical size limit many stages before you unlock the full bag just because of just how large it is. you could explain it so that the later stages can only be obtained by magical means. now you could do that for all stages until it's fully unlocked, or you could make it far more complex and therefore, more difficult and more expensive to obtain.
for example: you could split the upgrades into categories and you would have to upgrade each crafting category individually. and aside from just gold, you would have to provide materials from which an NPC can craft your upgrades. for the magical upgrades, you may even need to obtain rare ingredients (which would be a new item) that you can obtain from tough encounters. especially the stages almost at the end would require ingredients from end game content like PvP or Dungeons, Arenas and even Trials. and then there is the matter of the final upgrade, where you upgrade a category from a finite amount of slots to an infinite amount of slots. since that's a special one I can imagine some extra tasks that would be needed. you could be tasked to obtain a certain amount of crafting materials that belong to that category for and "attunement" process so it can hold an infinite amount of it. For Blacksmithing that would require: Rubedite Ore, Rubedite Ingots, Honing Stone, Dwarven Oil, Grain Solvent, Tempering Alloy and Regulus. I'm talking about significant amounts. basically that for all the crafting categories.
Of course it makes sense to spread out that many different upgrades over several NPCs so they kinda need a proper location to be at. fortunately, there already is an ideal location in the game. The Belkarth Festival Grounds in Craglorn. that whole area is crafting themed and it's in neutral territory with a cart in every alliance capital that can bring you there. it could maybe use a redesign. make it larger to give each upgrade NPC a more elaborate, better decorated space and add additional NPC to make the place more a live. a few Mages-Towers would also be appropriate since they'll need a place to conduct the magical upgrades. (those upgrades could grant you an item that you need to bring back to the upgrade NPC to attach it to your bag). you could even connect it all with entire questlines about retrieve tools, attracting crafters or unlocking magical rituals for the later upgrades. so many opportunities for achievements, titels, dyes and bonus rewards. even room for dailies and unique items (like crafting motifs). all this bonus content I just listed shouldn't be part of the directly paid or the ESO+ bag. so maybe a onetime paid option wouldn't be such a great idea after all. it would depend on the execution.

TL,DR: my point is that there is a lot that can be done with the craft bag if you could obtain it by playing the game. it doesn't need to be easy and in fact, it should be very hard to get the full bag because it's so very useful. it should make you trek through basically the entire game to get the full bag while still offering you a useful amount of inventory space in the early stages. you could get it as early as you have your crafting certifications and get to your alliance capital. The Craft Bag has the potential to become a huge system, it already is a real game changer, and ZOS could build an entire world around it if they wanted to. and because of the high difficulty and large amount of time, many people may still opt to use ESO+ for it instead. there could also be other ESO+ bonuses to replace the Craft Bag.

Tandor

I do get the fact that some players want a crafting bag but don't want to pay an ESO+ sub in order to get it, and I understand that. They will come up with all manner of ingenious business models that appear to get round that, but reading between the lines the only conclusion one can draw is that they want the bag but don't want to pay the sub.

The problem with that is partly commercial, the company needs the certainty of revenue afforded by subscriptions and must therefore provide sufficient benefits to generate those subscriptions, and partly historic in that very many players have paid a huge amount over many years of subscriptions precisely in order to have the crafting bag, having been assured from the outset that this will be the only way to get it. Their likely reaction to being told that the crafting bag or something approaching it was to be provided in some other way such as for Crowns or gold could not be posted within forum rules ! Suffice to say that it would be both a PR and commercial disaster for the company.

TaSheen

Tandor wrote: »

I do get the fact that some players want a crafting bag but don't want to pay an ESO+ sub in order to get it, and I understand that. They will come up with all manner of ingenious business models that appear to get round that, but reading between the lines the only conclusion one can draw is that they want the bag but don't want to pay the sub.

The problem with that is partly commercial, the company needs the certainty of revenue afforded by subscriptions and must therefore provide sufficient benefits to generate those subscriptions, and partly historic in that very many players have paid a huge amount over many years of subscriptions precisely in order to have the crafting bag, having been assured from the outset that this will be the only way to get it. Their likely reaction to being told that the crafting bag or something approaching it was to be provided in some other way such as for Crowns or gold could not be posted within forum rules ! Suffice to say that it would be both a PR and commercial disaster for the company.

And this is why I think a mandatory sub is better overall. Yeah, I know I'm a minority of one as usual. But I ALWAYS pay my way in games, because if I play a game for even a year (much less a decade!) it's only fair to pay for the fun.

laniakea_0

Tandor wrote: »

I do get the fact that some players want a crafting bag but don't want to pay an ESO+ sub in order to get it, and I understand that. They will come up with all manner of ingenious business models that appear to get round that, but reading between the lines the only conclusion one can draw is that they want the bag but don't want to pay the sub.

The problem with that is partly commercial, the company needs the certainty of revenue afforded by subscriptions and must therefore provide sufficient benefits to generate those subscriptions, and partly historic in that very many players have paid a huge amount over many years of subscriptions precisely in order to have the crafting bag, having been assured from the outset that this will be the only way to get it. Their likely reaction to being told that the crafting bag or something approaching it was to be provided in some other way such as for Crowns or gold could not be posted within forum rules ! Suffice to say that it would be both a PR and commercial disaster for the company.

what about revenue from the original purchase of the game or the purchase of chapters and quarterly DLC? isn't that a steady enough source of income that you don't need to rely on any subscription based income?

RicAlmighty

"Hey company, please take this thing that generates revenue for you and stop doing it. For me, ok?"

This is what people who suggest this sound like. What would be your suggestion to replace the revenue stream that Zos would lose by decoupling the craft bag from the subscription? If you do not have one, then why would you ever expect them to take this suggestion seriously?

Tandor

TaSheen wrote: »

Tandor wrote: »

I do get the fact that some players want a crafting bag but don't want to pay an ESO+ sub in order to get it, and I understand that. They will come up with all manner of ingenious business models that appear to get round that, but reading between the lines the only conclusion one can draw is that they want the bag but don't want to pay the sub.

The problem with that is partly commercial, the company needs the certainty of revenue afforded by subscriptions and must therefore provide sufficient benefits to generate those subscriptions, and partly historic in that very many players have paid a huge amount over many years of subscriptions precisely in order to have the crafting bag, having been assured from the outset that this will be the only way to get it. Their likely reaction to being told that the crafting bag or something approaching it was to be provided in some other way such as for Crowns or gold could not be posted within forum rules ! Suffice to say that it would be both a PR and commercial disaster for the company.

And this is why I think a mandatory sub is better overall. Yeah, I know I'm a minority of one as usual. But I ALWAYS pay my way in games, because if I play a game for even a year (much less a decade!) it's only fair to pay for the fun.

Correction my friend, you're in a minority of at least two !

That's why I always say that if a game is worth playing then it's worth paying for, but if it isn't worth paying for then it isn't worth my time playing it.

laniakea_0

isn't full access to all DLC enough of a main incentive? besides, I didn't say it should definitely be removed from ESO plus. I merely suggested that there should be alternative ways to obtain it. hard, expensive (in game currency), time intensive ways.

TaSheen

Tandor wrote: »

TaSheen wrote: »

Tandor wrote: »

I do get the fact that some players want a crafting bag but don't want to pay an ESO+ sub in order to get it, and I understand that. They will come up with all manner of ingenious business models that appear to get round that, but reading between the lines the only conclusion one can draw is that they want the bag but don't want to pay the sub.

The problem with that is partly commercial, the company needs the certainty of revenue afforded by subscriptions and must therefore provide sufficient benefits to generate those subscriptions, and partly historic in that very many players have paid a huge amount over many years of subscriptions precisely in order to have the crafting bag, having been assured from the outset that this will be the only way to get it. Their likely reaction to being told that the crafting bag or something approaching it was to be provided in some other way such as for Crowns or gold could not be posted within forum rules ! Suffice to say that it would be both a PR and commercial disaster for the company.

And this is why I think a mandatory sub is better overall. Yeah, I know I'm a minority of one as usual. But I ALWAYS pay my way in games, because if I play a game for even a year (much less a decade!) it's only fair to pay for the fun.

Correction my friend, you're in a minority of at least two !

That's why I always say that if a game is worth playing then it's worth paying for, but if it isn't worth paying for then it isn't worth my time playing it.

Oh, right! I know that! It just always seems like I'm the only one on "the other side" of issues like this!

laniakea_0 wrote: »

isn't full access to all DLC enough of a main incentive? besides, I didn't say it should definitely be removed from ESO plus. I merely suggested that there should be alternative ways to obtain it. hard, expensive (in game currency), time intensive ways.

Sorry, but no. It's one of the main benefits of subbing. Having it available in any way other than paying a monthly sub would be a very bad look for those of us who've paid a sub every month for years.

RicAlmighty

laniakea_0 wrote: »

I merely suggested that there should be alternative ways to obtain it.

And how would those "alternate" ways generate revenue for Zos? Ongoing, repeatable revenue? Because that's what they have now. And if you have no answer to that question, then it's just a selfish unrealistic request.

SerafinaWaterstar

You want the benefits, pay the sub. It’s that simple.

Necrotech_Master

laniakea_0 wrote: »

Tandor wrote: »

I do get the fact that some players want a crafting bag but don't want to pay an ESO+ sub in order to get it, and I understand that. They will come up with all manner of ingenious business models that appear to get round that, but reading between the lines the only conclusion one can draw is that they want the bag but don't want to pay the sub.

The problem with that is partly commercial, the company needs the certainty of revenue afforded by subscriptions and must therefore provide sufficient benefits to generate those subscriptions, and partly historic in that very many players have paid a huge amount over many years of subscriptions precisely in order to have the crafting bag, having been assured from the outset that this will be the only way to get it. Their likely reaction to being told that the crafting bag or something approaching it was to be provided in some other way such as for Crowns or gold could not be posted within forum rules ! Suffice to say that it would be both a PR and commercial disaster for the company.

what about revenue from the original purchase of the game or the purchase of chapters and quarterly DLC? isn't that a steady enough source of income that you don't need to rely on any subscription based income?

the original purchase of the game is one and done

i have a 2nd acct i use sometimes, i literally have paid a grand total of about $30 on that account (bought the account on sale, and then paid for a high isle upgrade (on sale again to update dlc access))

that account is still using server resources (DB for storing the account and character information, and actual server resources when i log it in)

you cant pay monthly bills on an account spending $30 between 2016 and now

imagine if the "millions of eso players" did that, they never bought anything in the crown store, and only updated dlc access every 5 years with chapter purchase on sale and the initial account, and no subs

i highly doubt ESO would have survived this long if that was the case

laniakea_0

Necrotech_Master wrote: »

laniakea_0 wrote: »

Tandor wrote: »

I do get the fact that some players want a crafting bag but don't want to pay an ESO+ sub in order to get it, and I understand that. They will come up with all manner of ingenious business models that appear to get round that, but reading between the lines the only conclusion one can draw is that they want the bag but don't want to pay the sub.

The problem with that is partly commercial, the company needs the certainty of revenue afforded by subscriptions and must therefore provide sufficient benefits to generate those subscriptions, and partly historic in that very many players have paid a huge amount over many years of subscriptions precisely in order to have the crafting bag, having been assured from the outset that this will be the only way to get it. Their likely reaction to being told that the crafting bag or something approaching it was to be provided in some other way such as for Crowns or gold could not be posted within forum rules ! Suffice to say that it would be both a PR and commercial disaster for the company.

what about revenue from the original purchase of the game or the purchase of chapters and quarterly DLC? isn't that a steady enough source of income that you don't need to rely on any subscription based income?

the original purchase of the game is one and done

i have a 2nd acct i use sometimes, i literally have paid a grand total of about $30 on that account (bought the account on sale, and then paid for a high isle upgrade (on sale again to update dlc access))

that account is still using server resources (DB for storing the account and character information, and actual server resources when i log it in)

you cant pay monthly bills on an account spending $30 between 2016 and now

imagine if the "millions of eso players" did that, they never bought anything in the crown store, and only updated dlc access every 5 years with chapter purchase on sale and the initial account, and no subs

i highly doubt ESO would have survived this long if that was the case

you really underestimate how much money has been accumulated by the one payment everyone made. and they are still gaining more players (at least it did when they last mentioned it). plus all the returning payments for the Chapters by the people that do actively play. it's a lot.

laniakea_0

RicAlmighty wrote: »

laniakea_0 wrote: »

I merely suggested that there should be alternative ways to obtain it.

And how would those "alternate" ways generate revenue for Zos? Ongoing, repeatable revenue? Because that's what they have now. And if you have no answer to that question, then it's just a selfish unrealistic request.

the continuous development of new content. you know, the thing they've been doing every quarter for more than 6 years at the least.

laniakea_0

TaSheen wrote: »

Tandor wrote: »

TaSheen wrote: »

Tandor wrote: »

I do get the fact that some players want a crafting bag but don't want to pay an ESO+ sub in order to get it, and I understand that. They will come up with all manner of ingenious business models that appear to get round that, but reading between the lines the only conclusion one can draw is that they want the bag but don't want to pay the sub.

The problem with that is partly commercial, the company needs the certainty of revenue afforded by subscriptions and must therefore provide sufficient benefits to generate those subscriptions, and partly historic in that very many players have paid a huge amount over many years of subscriptions precisely in order to have the crafting bag, having been assured from the outset that this will be the only way to get it. Their likely reaction to being told that the crafting bag or something approaching it was to be provided in some other way such as for Crowns or gold could not be posted within forum rules ! Suffice to say that it would be both a PR and commercial disaster for the company.

And this is why I think a mandatory sub is better overall. Yeah, I know I'm a minority of one as usual. But I ALWAYS pay my way in games, because if I play a game for even a year (much less a decade!) it's only fair to pay for the fun.

Correction my friend, you're in a minority of at least two !

That's why I always say that if a game is worth playing then it's worth paying for, but if it isn't worth paying for then it isn't worth my time playing it.

Oh, right! I know that! It just always seems like I'm the only one on "the other side" of issues like this!

laniakea_0 wrote: »

isn't full access to all DLC enough of a main incentive? besides, I didn't say it should definitely be removed from ESO plus. I merely suggested that there should be alternative ways to obtain it. hard, expensive (in game currency), time intensive ways.

Sorry, but no. It's one of the main benefits of subbing. Having it available in any way other than paying a monthly sub would be a very bad look for those of us who've paid a sub every month for years.

kargen27

The craft bag is not essential. It is convenient.

Personally I think the game should have stayed subscription required.

Necrotech_Master

laniakea_0 wrote: »

RicAlmighty wrote: »

laniakea_0 wrote: »

I merely suggested that there should be alternative ways to obtain it.

And how would those "alternate" ways generate revenue for Zos? Ongoing, repeatable revenue? Because that's what they have now. And if you have no answer to that question, then it's just a selfish unrealistic request.

the continuous development of new content. you know, the thing they've been doing every quarter for more than 6 years at the least.

not everyone buys the new content, and the new content pays for the devs time, not the server resources

if the game was in maintenance mode, it would only be server resources that would be a cost, but they have to pay a team of devs, testers, management etc to actually produce new content

subs are meant to maintain continuous costs like you know the servers, while the cost of new content is more paying for the devs, to you know, have jobs to make more content for us

TaSheen

kargen27 wrote: »

The craft bag is not essential. It is convenient.

Personally I think the game should have stayed subscription required.

Oh good, that makes 3 of us!

ArchangelIsraphel

TaSheen wrote: »

Tandor wrote: »

I do get the fact that some players want a crafting bag but don't want to pay an ESO+ sub in order to get it, and I understand that. They will come up with all manner of ingenious business models that appear to get round that, but reading between the lines the only conclusion one can draw is that they want the bag but don't want to pay the sub.

The problem with that is partly commercial, the company needs the certainty of revenue afforded by subscriptions and must therefore provide sufficient benefits to generate those subscriptions, and partly historic in that very many players have paid a huge amount over many years of subscriptions precisely in order to have the crafting bag, having been assured from the outset that this will be the only way to get it. Their likely reaction to being told that the crafting bag or something approaching it was to be provided in some other way such as for Crowns or gold could not be posted within forum rules ! Suffice to say that it would be both a PR and commercial disaster for the company.

And this is why I think a mandatory sub is better overall. Yeah, I know I'm a minority of one as usual. But I ALWAYS pay my way in games, because if I play a game for even a year (much less a decade!) it's only fair to pay for the fun.

You already pay for the fun by paying for the game and it's DLC's. Mandatory subs are an outdated concept, and frankly, ESO is too old at this point to have a mandatory sub any more. Given the level of dissatisfaction I have seen within the player base, such a thing would kill off the player base pretty quick.

Optional sub with benefits is the best pay model for a game as old as ESO.

I sub to ESO for the bag and the crowns because I have the option to do so, and do not loose access to characters and content I have already paid for if I choose not to sub. If subbing was mandatory to access a game I had to buy at the outset, I wouldn't have ever even picked up the game. Not because it's not worth playing, but because I refuse to have things I paid for held hostage until I shell out more money for them via a sub. As a result of the optional model, I actually end up spending more on a game, because I can always drop my sub if I absolutely must without losing my content.

laniakea_0

Necrotech_Master wrote: »

laniakea_0 wrote: »

RicAlmighty wrote: »

laniakea_0 wrote: »

I merely suggested that there should be alternative ways to obtain it.

And how would those "alternate" ways generate revenue for Zos? Ongoing, repeatable revenue? Because that's what they have now. And if you have no answer to that question, then it's just a selfish unrealistic request.

the continuous development of new content. you know, the thing they've been doing every quarter for more than 6 years at the least.

not everyone buys the new content, and the new content pays for the devs time, not the server resources

if the game was in maintenance mode, it would only be server resources that would be a cost, but they have to pay a team of devs, testers, management etc to actually produce new content

subs are meant to maintain continuous costs like you know the servers, while the cost of new content is more paying for the devs, to you know, have jobs to make more content for us

what's your source for that? seems unrealistic that they would split it like that and that DLC revenue isn't significantly more than the devs get paid

SaffronCitrusflower

Can form a private guild with 9 friends and get 500 storage slots for free (use for mats). Can also make several mules for another 600 storage slots (use for gear; jewelry/magic/stamina mules)

This will give you everything the craft bag does with little inconvienence.

And don't forget there are 4 storage chests that hold 60 slots, and four more that hold 30 each that you can put in your main house. There are also 3 "pets" that give you 5 storage slots added to each character that happen to be on sale right now for 960 crowns.

The craft bag really isn't worth $15/month in my opinion, especially when you can get the same thing for free if you plan for it.

AcadianPaladin

Access to dlc via ESO+ used to be a significant draw for me. Not any more. Not since they parsed the term dlc to exclude dlc that are now called 'chapters'. I don't do or care about dlc trials or dungeons so the only dlc I care about are the ones now called chapters that my ESO+ no longer gets me. I lost a good deal of trust and faith in Zenimax when they made that change.

So currently, the craft bag is the main ESO+ draw for me with the ability to dye costumes a pretty important feature as well. The extra house/inventory space is not a big deal to me.

If ancient history serves me right, I believe ESO started out as mandatory subscription and had to go to the present model to survive.

RicAlmighty

laniakea_0 wrote: »

RicAlmighty wrote: »

laniakea_0 wrote: »

I merely suggested that there should be alternative ways to obtain it.

And how would those "alternate" ways generate revenue for Zos? Ongoing, repeatable revenue? Because that's what they have now. And if you have no answer to that question, then it's just a selfish unrealistic request.

the continuous development of new content. you know, the thing they've been doing every quarter for more than 6 years at the least.

So, it is your contention that a $40 payment once a year will generate the same amount of revenue as a $14 per month subscription? Is this seriously what you're going with? That's not only terribly naive, it's incredibly disingenuous.