Concept for Future Werewolf/Vampire Companion Skill Lines

Erickson9610 · August 2023

According to the response given by @ZOS_PhilipDraven in the Companions Q&A, the possibility of us getting a werewolf or vampire companion in the future is not off the table.

ZOS_Kevin wrote: »

Q: What is the team's stance on vampire/werewolf companions? Are there any plans to introduce more than 2 companions per year?

PD: Vampire and werewolf companions are not off the table for future companions. There are no plans to increase the companion release rate at this time. (They take a lot of work from a large number of talented developers, and we want to make sure we’re taking the time to get them as good as they can possibly be.)
***

As a dedicated Werewolf player, and a fan of Companions in general, I've decided to draft skill lines for the potential companions. Let me know what you think!

Companion Werewolf

Bestial Transformation — 200 Ultimate, 1 second cast time, targets self, 30 second duration. Companion transforms into a beast, fearing nearby enemies for 3 seconds.
Leap — 0.4 second cast time, targets enemy, 7 - 22 meter range, 12 second cooldown. Companion pounces onto an enemy with primal fury, dealing 6000 Bleed Damage.
Howl — Instant cast time, targets self, 16 second cooldown. Companion invokes the Huntsman's blessing, healing for 6000 Health. This ability scales off the companion's Max Health. Used when Companion is below 75% Health.
Slash — 0.6 second cast time, targets cone, 7 meter radius, 8 second cooldown. Companion shreds enemies in front of them with their tainted claws, dealing 4000 Disease Damage and an additional 4000 Disease Damage over 8 seconds.
Pack Animal — Increases the duration of Bestial Transformation by 20% for each transformed werewolf or direwolf in the Companion's group, including themselves, up to a maximum of 80%.

Werewolf Companions will likely need an Ultimate to get into form, so this may be the first case of a non-personalized Companion Ultimate. Since they are locked into using Werewolf skills while transformed, I believe that a Companion version of Pounce, Hircine's Bounty, and Infectious Claws will make for the most effective and self-sustaining damage dealer Werewolf spec for a Companion. Pounce as the gap closer, Hircine's Bounty as the emergency heal, and Infectious Claws as the main damage dealing skill would keep a Werewolf Companion focused on being in the action while fulfilling that power fantasy.

The passive skill, a Companion version of Call of the Pack, is further meant to reinforce that power fantasy of running with a werewolf pack. The hope is that both the player and their Companion would transform into werewolf form at the same time, keeping one another in form for as long as possible.

Companion Vampire

Gash — 0.4 second cast time, targets enemy, 7 meter range, 8 second cooldown. Companion rends an enemy, dealing 6000 Magic Damage. Deals up to 33% more damage based on their missing Health.
Drain Life — 3 second channel time, targets enemy, 22 meter range, 3 second duration, 12 second cooldown. Companion siphons away an enemy's vitality, dealing 1606 Magic Damage and healing them for 25% of their missing Health every 1 second for 3 seconds. Used when Companion is below 50% Health.
Bend Will — 0.5 second cast time, targets area, 6 meter radius, 4 second duration, 16 second cooldown. Companion subdues enemies in front of them with their baleful gaze, stunning them for 4 seconds if they are facing their direction.
Undying Blood — Reduces Companion's damage taken by up to 20% based on their missing Health.

Vampire Companions are expected to be able to use their regular human toolkit, in addition to these tools. These proposed Companion versions of Eviscerate, Vampiric Drain, and Mesmerize would help them to fit more comfortably into a tankier spec, which Companions often struggle with. The Companion version of Undeath is, perhaps, the most appealing feature — it would make a Vampire Companion one of the best options for tanking.

autocookies · August 2023

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TX12001rwb17_ESO · August 2023

autocookies wrote: »

As some necro skills are criminal acts. I think how they do the necro companion one day will define how this works.

Really look forward to this! Ether as direct companions or being able to bite companions and help them do the required vampire or werewolf questline. Watching them transform into the beast they will become from the position of an outsider seems interesting to me.

Well the NPC versions would not be criminal acts.

TX12001rwb17_ESO · August 2023

The problem with Vampire and Werewolf companions as they would need to be a specific class as well to have enough skills, imagine the reaction of players if the Vampire companion had more Vampire skills then them.

And what about Werewolf skills when the Werewolf is not transformed? I feel it would be better to simply make the companion auto-transform at the start of combat.

Erickson9610 · August 2023

TX12001rwb17_ESO wrote: »

The problem with Vampire and Werewolf companions as they would need to be a specific class as well to have enough skills, imagine the reaction of players if the Vampire companion had more Vampire skills then them.

I think that any class can work thematically with Werewolf or Vampire — though, you might not find very many of them being Templars, due to werewolves and vampires being their sworn enemy. In that case, you might justify a Werewolf Templar Companion getting access to Werewolf Transformation at Level 20 as someone who is struggling with an internal conflict, someone who is trying to keep this other part of them a secret, or someone who is learning to accept themselves.

What I'd not necessarily care to see is all of the "expected" tropes. A Warden Bosmer Werewolf Companion? Yeah, that's what most players play as when they want to go all out on the werewolf and wilderness theme. The same can be said for a Necromancer Altmer Vampire Companion. That's your typical master of death right there. I'd like to see new and interesting race/class/curse combinations that all contribute to some bigger story about these characters.

TX12001rwb17_ESO wrote: »

And what about Werewolf skills when the Werewolf is not transformed? I feel it would be better to simply make the companion auto-transform at the start of combat.

Ironically, the way that Werewolf is designed in this game would imply that a Companion Werewolf would suffer the same pitfalls as with player werewolves. That being a lack of build diversity, as the transformation takes away all of those other skill lines. Maybe it's good that a Companion Werewolf might drop their transformation periodically and resume using their human form skills, but I'd at least like some way to lengthen the duration of their transformation.

Erickson9610 · August 2023

autocookies wrote: »

As some necro skills are criminal acts. I think how they do the necro companion one day will define how this works.

Maybe Companions just won't cast Criminal Act skills whenever they are in proximity of a town? It would help with the immersion, but that'd feel unnecessary to program in, and the bugs that might arise from it would likely be bothersome.

Tommy_The_Gun · August 2023

For a Werewolf companion, it would be actually pretty nice if their transformation ultimate had a synergy with player Werewolf ultimate. For example, WW has this passive that makes transformation longer the more Werewolves are in the group (Pack Leader "dogos" also count for that). This duration is also increased by using some WW skills, feeding etc.

So, it would be pretty nice if a Companion would also have mechanics that would allow for a very long transformation (using some WW skills & feeding) and of course - WW companion would have same passives as player WW when it comes to duration (the more WWs in the party, the longer transformation and it would work for both player & companion if they are both WWs at the same time).

My point is that WW companion imho should stay in WW form as long as player can stay in WW, so both player & his/her companion can hunt stuff together in one pack. Companion using WW form for only 30 seconds is a waste of ultimate. You are better off just slotting mages guild meteor ulti for a companion.

Erickson9610 · August 2023

Tommy_The_Gun wrote: »

My point is that WW companion imho should stay in WW form as long as player can stay in WW, so both player & his/her companion can hunt stuff together in one pack. Companion using WW form for only 30 seconds is a waste of ultimate. You are better off just slotting mages guild meteor ulti for a companion.

That was the initial inspiration for the passive Werewolf Companion skill concept that I've outlined. Maybe instead of increasing the duration of the companion's transformation up to 80%, it instead pauses the companion's werewolf timer whenever the player uses Werewolf Transformation? That way players would only need to manage one werewolf timer, rather than two.

Bo0137 · August 2023

Whatever the skills of the vampire/werewolf companion are, I agree. Just do it already! This is an excellent idea!

RaikaNA · August 2023

companions are so useless... instead of focusing all of the developer's attention on companions... Please focus on new races/classes,etc...

TX12001rwb17_ESO · August 2023

RaikaNA wrote: »

companions are so useless... instead of focusing all of the developer's attention on companions... Please focus on new races/classes,etc...

New Races would be unlorefriendly.

Arcturus · August 2023

Please please please, no werewolf/vampire companions until werewolf/vampire players are actualy proper werewolves/vampires. Right now they're little more than RP excuses.

In the case of vampires, yall remember when Greymoor came out and npc's had a much wider and sophisticated variety of cool skills than players?

All we've got is a palm smack, a soda juice straw, a toggleable pipe sound, a circular fart and moist form. Not to mention the ultimate is a reskinned goliath when VL's were promised LIVE. (and were expected to be their own skill bar just like ww but with 2 instead of 1 to acocunt for magic and melee modes)

In the case of werewolves, even in the cosmetic sense you see way better versions than the player's in dungeons, and I don't see why they should be limited to a single skill bar when they could also have two if they ever make VL a thing, maybe one skill bar could be bipedal and the other on all 4's?)

We need both of these to be viable in every game situation without surpassing the "human" ceiling.

Lock them out from certain skill lines, make them their own class, I don't know. But whatever it is the sooner they do it the better.

It just sucks that devs are bossed and ruled around and can't actually make the call and choose actively to do this or do that. If they could we would've gotten VL's as far as I know, biggest hint to that was the wing remnants in the pre-ptb of Greymoor.

And by the nine divines give vampires actual fangs. We don't care if mesh swaps are harder than a simple texture change, fangs are NOT a "minor" thing (especialy in dialogue) and the texture itself is already garbage!

Apologies for any miss types it's 5 am and I just woke up.

Erickson9610 · August 2023

I agree that I'd like to see werewolves and vampires get a rework. I know a lot of people want the Vampire Lord from the Dawnguard DLC, and the Werewolf Behemoth from Stone Garden. It would change so much about those playstyles if they were overhauled with those in mind.

I at least hope that when it's the right time to introduce a companion with one of those curses, that the player skill lines would also be reevaluated. As it stands, merely copying the design choices from the player skill lines onto the Companions system would likely lead to the same issues being present with the companions.

Erickson9610 · December 2023

After realizing that there is more nuance to the cooldowns for existing Companion skills, I've decided to edit the original post with adjusted cooldowns for each proposed Companion skill. Hopefully this thread can be a source of inspiration for whenever the development team decides to tackle the design of the Companion version of the Werewolf and Vampire skill lines.

Pixiepumpkin · December 2023

I still think they should make a vampire class and a werewolf class. Basically the class version would be a more fleshed out, "master" version of the skill lines.

I have yet been able to make a vampire, that uses vampire abilities who is not reliant on skill or weapon lines to do any reasonable trial or vet worthy DPS.

Erickson9610 · December 2023

Pixiepumpkin wrote: »

I still think they should make a vampire class and a werewolf class. Basically the class version would be a more fleshed out, "master" version of the skill lines.

I have yet been able to make a vampire, that uses vampire abilities who is not reliant on skill or weapon lines to do any reasonable trial or vet worthy DPS.

I would be intrigued to see what ZOS would make for a Werewolf Class and a Vampire Class. Companions have damage dealing, healing, and tanking skill lines in their Class skill lines, each with 3 skills each, so it would be interesting to see what kind of group healing and tanking skills would be made, especially for Werewolf. Maybe ZOS could borrow some skills from Werewolf Behemoth?

Another thing of note is that if Companion Werewolf was a Class rather than a single skill line, the Companion Werewolf in question would be able to use non-Werewolf skills, which undoubtedly would necessitate more animations being made. Maybe this move would allow the Player Werewolf to do the same in the future?

The idea of Werewolf and Vampire being Classes rather than skill lines goes against the idea of any existing character being able to become a Werewolf or Vampire, but this might mean that they would be balanced similar to any other Class. Despite this, I don't expect any existing Companion to be able to be turned into a Werewolf or Vampire, but rather I'd expect some new Companion with a reused Class being created who already has the Werewolf or Vampire skill line from the beginning.

Erickson9610 · January 2024

With the announcement that 2024's Companions are slated for a Q4 release, it might be possible that more development time is being put into them. Maybe we will get to see our first Werewolf or Vampire Companion in 2024?

Tommy_The_Gun · January 2024

Erickson9610 wrote: »

With the announcement that 2024's Companions are slated for a Q4 release, it might be possible that more development time is being put into them. Maybe we will get to see our first Werewolf or Vampire Companion in 2024?

When it comes to companions, so far we don't have:
- Orc
- Nord
- High Elf
- Wood Elf
The only class that is missing is Necromancer. So if we are gonna get 2 companions, one for sure will be Necromancer and the other will be either Wereolf or Vampire.

As much as I would like to see a Werewolf companion, it will be for 99% a Vampire.... cuz Vampires are more popular. That is the sad truth.

So I expect a High Elf dude Necromancer nad an Orc Vampire lady... cuz we can not have nice things.

Edit: It may not necessarily be a Vamp or WW. They also may want to maybe add a showcase for new class in a form of a Companion, or maybe add "a Wizard" archetype Companion that will use Scribing / Grimoires.

Erickson9610 · January 2024

Tommy_The_Gun wrote: »

Erickson9610 wrote: »

With the announcement that 2024's Companions are slated for a Q4 release, it might be possible that more development time is being put into them. Maybe we will get to see our first Werewolf or Vampire Companion in 2024?

When it comes to companions, so far we don't have:
- Orc
- Nord
- High Elf
- Wood Elf
The only class that is missing is Necromancer. So if we are gonna get 2 companions, one for sure will be Necromancer and the other will be either Wereolf or Vampire.

As much as I would like to see a Werewolf companion, it will be for 99% a Vampire.... cuz Vampires are more popular. That is the sad truth.

So I expect a High Elf dude Necromancer nad an Orc Vampire lady... cuz we can not have nice things.

Edit: It may not necessarily be a Vamp or WW. They also may want to maybe add a showcase for new class in a form of a Companion, or maybe add "a Wizard" archetype Companion that will use Scribing / Grimoires.

I'm expecting them to re-use existing Classes. Presuming that we'll get our first Necromancer Companion this year, which of the 7 Classes would you expect for the second Companion in 2024? Maybe we'll get something generic like a Nightblade Vampire Companion, should they decide to also implement the Companion Vampire or Companion Werewolf skill lines.

Since Grimoires are about adding customizable skills to existing skill lines, I'd be curious to see how and if this system could be applied to Companions, especially considering how Companion skills are balanced. Maybe a Companion Werewolf with access to a Werewolf Grimoire could have a 4th Werewolf skill on their skill bar while transformed?

It's still too early to say what would happen. My bet is that we'll get a Necromancer Companion, then another Nightblade or Dragonknight Companion, since it's been years since we met Mirri and Bastian. I'd imagine the Class skills for multiple Companions of the same Class would be identical, except for the Ultimate.

Erickson9610 · June 2024

Erickson9610 wrote: »

Companion Werewolf
Bestial Transformation — 200 Ultimate, 1 second cast time, targets self, 30 second duration. Companion transforms into a beast, fearing nearby enemies for 3 seconds.

Leap — 0.4 second cast time, targets enemy, 7 - 22 meter range, 12 second cooldown. Companion pounces onto an enemy with primal fury, dealing 6000 Bleed Damage.

Howl — Instant cast time, targets self, 16 second cooldown. Companion invokes the Huntsman's blessing, healing for 6000 Health. This ability scales off the companion's Max Health. Used when Companion is below 75% Health.

Slash — 0.6 second cast time, targets cone, 7 meter radius, 8 second cooldown. Companion shreds enemies in front of them with their tainted claws, dealing 4000 Disease Damage and an additional 4000 Disease Damage over 8 seconds.

Pack Animal — Increases the duration of Bestial Transformation by 20% for each transformed werewolf or direwolf in the Companion's group, including themselves, up to a maximum of 80%.

Werewolf Companions will likely need an Ultimate to get into form, so this may be the first case of a non-personalized Companion Ultimate. Since they are locked into using Werewolf skills while transformed, I believe that a Companion version of Pounce, Hircine's Bounty, and Infectious Claws will make for the most effective and self-sustaining damage dealer Werewolf spec for a Companion. Pounce as the gap closer, Hircine's Bounty as the emergency heal, and Infectious Claws as the main damage dealing skill would keep a Werewolf Companion focused on being in the action while fulfilling that power fantasy.

The passive skill, a Companion version of Call of the Pack, is further meant to reinforce that power fantasy of running with a werewolf pack. The hope is that both the player and their Companion would transform into werewolf form at the same time, keeping one another in form for as long as possible.

I've been thinking over how a Companion Werewolf could be implemented, and I believe I've come up with a viable approach.

But first, here are a few different approaches, with their drawbacks and the questions they raise:

If the Companion Werewolf is implemented as a full "Class"...
- The Companion Werewolf would need 10 "Werewolf" skills — 3 for Damage Dealing, 3 for Tanking, 3 for Healing, and 1 for their unique Ultimate. Player Werewolves have 3 Damage Dealing skills, 1 Healing skill, and 1 Tanking skill, so brand new skills would need to be made. Werewolf Behemoth's abilities use a separate set of animations from the regular Werewolf, so those abilities couldn't simply be copied over.
- If the Companion's Class Ultimate is their transformation ability, then they wouldn't be able to use any of their Werewolf form abilities until Level 20, leaving most of their Class toolkit unusable until then.
If the Companion Werewolf was always transformed while in combat...
- This would mean that the Companion could never use human form abilities (such as Weapon, Guild, or Armor skills).
If the Companion Werewolf's transformation is implemented as purely cosmetic...
- The Companion Werewolf could randomly transform outside of combat and while idle, like what Hildegard as a Houseguest does. This would also be a disappointing avenue to take, because the Companion would never be able to use their transformation for combat, even when it would help them.
If the Companion Werewolf's form was a Player-controlled toggle...
- This would run against the design philosophy that Companions shouldn't need to be micromanaged by the player during combat.
- If this was a toggle managed outside of combat, then this would mean that the Companion would only do Werewolf form combat or human form combat in a single fight, never both.
If the Companion's Werewolf abilities interact with the Justice System...
- They don't need to incur a bounty for the player. However, Companion Werewolf skills can be given a proc condition such as "Used while not near witnesses" or "Used while not in a town" to simulate the knowledge that they shouldn't transform where other people can see them.
If the Companion Werewolf has a brand new Werewolf skill line...
- When and how would the Companion Werewolf transform? Should the player be allowed to choose to never have the Companion Werewolf transform by never slotting their Werewolf skills?
- How many Werewolf form abilities should they have — zero, if no Werewolf abilities are made due to there being no Werewolf form skill bar in the UI, three, if this is following the standard of Companion skill lines, or five, to fill the entire Werewolf form skill bar?
If there is no Werewolf form skill bar in the UI...
- Then Companion Werewolves would use a predetermined set of abilities (whether they use a similar attack pattern to that of NPC werewolves, or some order of Companion versions of player Werewolf abilities) that the player cannot reorganize. Compared to a Companion Vampire, the Companion Werewolf wouldn't be able to incorporate their skills into their build with the same degree of flexibility.
If there is a Werewolf form skill bar in the UI...
- How would this be implemented without drastically increasing complexity? If this is implemented, then players would be able to customize the order of the limited selection of Werewolf form skills. Players could place the Companion version of Hircine's Bounty before any other Companion Werewolf skill, for instance.
If the transformation was tied to an Ultimate skill apart from their Class Ultimate...
- Then the Companion would have two Ultimate skills. This also means the Companion could never have both their Werewolf Transformation and their Class Ultimate on the same build.
If the transformation was tied to a non-Ultimate Active Ability...
- Then the Companion could transform when the player wants them to, but then their Werewolf skill line would have the transformation ability listed alongside the Werewolf form Active Abilities. This approach would also take up one of their 5 Active Ability slots in their human form.
If the transformation was tied to a Passive Ability...
- Then the player would have little control over when their Companion transforms, but it would free up an ability slot.
- This might also discourage a more useful Werewolf Passive Ability from being given to a Companion Werewolf, like a Companion version of Call of the Pack, due to the standard of each Companion skill line having only one Passive Ability at most.
  - Though, the issue with multiple Passive Abilities could be resolved by condensing their effects into just one Passive Ability.
If the Companion Werewolf could transform while their Class Ultimate is slotted...
- They could either refuse to cast their Class Ultimate while transformed, or it could be made to work in both human and Werewolf form. Maybe their Class Ultimate could have a unique function when cast in Werewolf form?
  - Though, if the Werewolf form uses an entirely different skill bar, then this is not an issue, due to the Class Ultimate not being slotted on the Werewolf skill bar.
If any Companion could be turned into a Werewolf...
- Some Companions (like Ember or Isobel) would abhor this being forced upon them.
  - Maybe they would be able to refuse, but then...
- What happens if a Companion was cursed on one character, but weren't cursed on another character? Because Companion skills are account-wide, the curses would synchronize across characters. This would result in Companions being afflicted with Lycanthropy/Vampirism before new characters even met them.
If only new Companions designed to be Werewolves from the start were designed...
- This would mean that only select Companions would get to use Werewolf abilities. However, this would ensure that ZOS could tell stories about Werewolf characters, provided that the Companion Werewolf could not be cured.
If the Companion Werewolf could be cured...
- Then Companions cannot have Lycanthropy/Vampirism in their story due to the possibility of them already having been cured on another character. Because Companion skills are account-wide, their curse also needs to be, otherwise Werewolf/Vampire skills would vanish from the Companion's skill bar whenever the player logged on to a character on which the Companion is cured, otherwise run the risk of the Companion casting Werewolf/Vampire skills when they do not have the appropriate curse.
If the Companion Werewolf's transformation was temporary...
- It could have a duration of 30 seconds, like the Player's Werewolf Transformation. However, the Companion Werewolf would lose form far more often than the Player would, due to having no method of adding time to their timer or slowing the timer.
  - Taking inspiration from the Player's Call of the Pack passive, the Companion could remain transformed for as long as the Player is. Likewise, the transformed Companion Werewolf could contribute to the Player's Call of the Pack passive, increasing the duration of the Player's Werewolf Transformation.
If the Companion Werewolf could bite the player...
- This would best be implemented as a high positive rapport reward.
  - It would make no sense to ask a Werewolf who hates you to bite you. You'd get a snarky comment, at best.
  - Putting this sort of reward behind the per-character rapport grind wouldn't devalue Werewolf bites too much.

I believe I've covered every high-level design concern that's popped up over how Companion Werewolves could be implemented. So, here's the approach I would take to implement a Companion Werewolf:

The Companion Werewolf would have to be a brand new Companion. They would be given the Werewolf skill line, separate from their Class skill lines, and the trigger for transforming would be a Passive Ability that checks for whether the Player is transformed into a Werewolf, or whether the Companion's Health drops to 50% or below. The Companion remains transformed for as long as the Player remains transformed, or if the Player is not transformed, for a maximum of 30 seconds. The skill line would have 3 Werewolf skills that unlock with XP earned, but their order cannot be changed, to reduce complexity in implementation by omitting the Werewolf skill bar from the UI. The Companion Werewolf cannot be cured, and existing Companions cannot be infected.

This would allow the Companion to transform for non-Werewolf players, as well as transform on demand for Werewolf players. It also ensures the Companion can use their human form abilities, as well as justify when they transform in combat. This allows the writers at ZOS to create a story tailored to a Werewolf character, and additionally allow the character designers to assign a unique fur color to each Companion Werewolf implemented going forward.

This implementation makes the most sense to me. What do you all think of this?
@ZOS_Kevin @ZOS_GinaBruno @ZOS_PhilipDraven

I'm sorry to ping you all yet again, but would you forward some of these ideas to the dev team? I think there's a lot of good ideas here, and I'd hate to see Werewolf overlooked for the Companions system due to being too complex to implement.

I really do believe this would be a great opportunity to design and write stories for compelling characters who are inflicted with lycanthropy, and I think it would also make for an engaging addition to the Companion combat system as well.