Game-breaking Werewolf Bug

Panderbander · July 2023

So I noticed a bug where werewolf still exists on the PTS despite some clear messaging that the intent is to make it unplayable and was wondering when we can expect to see it deleted rather than just removed piece by piece @ZOS_GinaBruno @ZOS_Kevin ? I know the game's code is a hot mess but surely you can just do a flat delete rather than just taking it out piece by piece like you're doing now. I need a valid excuse to convince me that my time sunk into this game really was a waste.

Looking forward to the response so we can move on already!

IncultaWolf · July 2023

They might as well remove werewolf from the game honestly, it's worse than necro at this point, and that's saying a lot

propertyOfUndefined · July 2023

Ooof... snarky...

Erickson9610 · July 2023

Werewolf is an entire "subclass", yet it's being treated like just an Ultimate and a skill line. Werewolf players cannot access their class skills, their guild skills, or any other skills. It's possibly the most restrictive spec in the game, so it needs to be balanced to compete fairly with the 7 classes in the game.

As it stands, there is no reason to use Werewolf if your class, guild, and weapon skills are doing way more for way less cost.

Jaraal · July 2023

Erickson9610 wrote: »

As it stands, there is no reason to use Werewolf if your class, guild, and weapon skills are doing way more for way less cost.

Not so. Werewolf is the easiest way to die if you are helping your friends get kill achievements. Just be sure they use poison and DOTs as well as CC that you can't purge.

Panderbander · July 2023

Free AP. Roleplay spec. Completely disallowed in Cloudrest. Incapable of completing the dungeon that takes place in the Hunting Grounds. Unable to duel within earshot of any NPC outside of Fargrave. Incapable of using any abilities outside of the five given by the skill line. An "ultimate" that requires 20 skill points to use. An ultimate that downgrades survivability and damage. Zero unique utility. Lower single target and AOE Damage than everything else.

There's so much more that could be said here.

MindOfTheSwarm · August 2023

Werewolves need some serious love, but Necromancers need it more so.

Werewolves are hard to balance due to them only having access to five skills while transformed. The solution is a tricky thing to get right. Buff the skills and you risk them becoming OP in PVP.

One solution might be to simply give a passive that increases damage against monsters while transformed. This would at least help them compete in PVE. In PVP they aren’t terrible if you build them correctly. They are pretty decent in BG.

Panderbander · August 2023

Werewolves need love in both PvP and PvE, not just one or the other. The only place werewolf has any strength in PvP is low level BGs because of the huge stat scaling you see at lower levels. Otherwise the only times werewolf has been "strong" in PvP is when there's a broken set interaction with them (such as the 10k unique armor they used to have interacting strongly with Alessian for big health recovery).

Unfortunately, ZOS seems to think that everything is fine and good with them and I can assure you as a player that spends 90% of their PvP time as a werewolf, runs a werewolf PvP guild, and theorycrafts everything with werewolf in mind that werewolf is not in a good spot.

I can count on a single hand how many of the werewolf players I know that still make vain attempts to make it work now when it used to be that we could field 10 or more werewolves at a time easily. It's not because those players aren't playing anymore; it's purely because ZOS has been nicking and picking at werewolf nearly every single patch and it's made it painful to play.

The only "buffs" we've received have largely been accidental and class-specific, such as the Burning Light change some time back. When Bound Armaments/Aegis or Grim Focus were working in WW form it felt like another of those rare moments where we were getting some positive attention that wasn't just "ha, no more snare for you" like we will be seeing in this patch. But clearly that wasn't the case.

And as for whether Necro is in a worse spot than WW? Nah. Not only does Necro parse higher, it can actually combo and get kills in PvP. Fighting as a werewolf is an exercise of who blinks first. There's no way to line up a burst and you're likely going to be squishier than everything around you because not only do we not have access to undeath, we also went from having the highest potential armor in the game to the lowest.

IF ZOS has a vision for werewolf they're working toward, I and everyone else that still plays this RP spec don't see it, and to make matters worse they WON'T COMMUNICATE WITH ANYONE REGARDING IT. Something, anything to say "hey, we have an idea of where we want to take werewolf but it needs some tweaks first so that we can get there" would be great because right now it really does feel like the only plan they have for it is to slowly, VERY SLOWLY, delete it from the game.

Erickson9610 · August 2023

I just want ZOS to communicate what their plans are for Werewolf. They've not addressed some of the longest-standing bugs with Werewolf, such as the lack of weapon passives despite clearly fulfilling the requirements to gain them, and they've not commented on their balance changes, such as the 100% Health requirement for Hircine's Rage or the nerf to Pack Leader's dire wolves.

It's at the point where players in the community believe that Werewolf should be this way. When the bug where you couldn't use "corpse abilities" on enemies who died to certain status effects existed, players believed that it was intentional that a Werewolf couldn't cast Devour on a corpse that died to Diseased. Some players believe that Werewolf shouldn't have weapon passives at all, but if that's the case, then why do they receive armor passives?

The point is, ZOS needs to communicate about these long-standing issues with Werewolf (and other parts of this game) to clear up misconception and confusion. As it stands, we don't know what Werewolf is meant to be, or where their vision for Werewolf is taking it. All we know is that it will receive nerf after nerf, the occasional buff (such as when the sweeping changes to Empower happened), and the rare rework that leads to a subsequent nerf, such as with the launch of Wolfhunter and Greymoor.

Jaraal · August 2023

I wonder if the people who brainstormed and spearheaded the Wolfhunter expansion still work for the company. They seemed interested and involved in the play style, and addressed long standing concerns and imbalances with werewolves. We were finally relevant again, yet still counterable by those who actually took the time to learn our weaknesses and prepare for encounters with us.

But then all of a sudden, the nerf hammer came down hard, and it's been disinterest and continuous weakening of the class ever since. We've asked for simple fixes like adding weapon passives, the ability to purge and break crowd control, more choices when it comes to skills, and so forth. And all we've gotten is the Shapeshifter's Chain (does anybody actually use that over better mythics?)

But, as has been stated here already, the worst part is the deafening silence regarding the direction our play style is headed. Why wasn't our melee range extended 2 meters like everyone else's was? Silence. Why can't we have simple skins or colors for our werewolves? Everybody else can use cosmetics and customizations? Silence. Why was our pet snare removed, when everyone else can build for snaring as they wish? Silence.

IncultaWolf · August 2023

Would be nice to get some form of communication from the dev team about these issues, do they plan to rework the entire skill line like vampires got in Greymoor? Because it's going to take more than just a few tweaks to make werewolf any form of enjoyable and competitive again in pve/pvp. The silence is disheartening.

autocookies · August 2023

deleted

Grizzbeorn · August 2023

Panderbander wrote: »

So I noticed a bug where werewolf still exists on the PTS despite some clear messaging that the intent is to make it unplayable and was wondering when we can expect to see it deleted rather than just removed piece by piece @ZOS_GinaBruno @ZOS_Kevin ? I know the game's code is a hot mess but surely you can just do a flat delete rather than just taking it out piece by piece like you're doing now. I need a valid excuse to convince me that my time sunk into this game really was a waste.

Looking forward to the response so we can move on already!

You aren't doing us any favors by continuing to make these sarcastic "just delete werewolf" threads.
They aren't going to acknowledge anything expressed with an attitude.

Panderbander · August 2023

Grizzbeorn wrote: »

Panderbander wrote: »

So I noticed a bug where werewolf still exists on the PTS despite some clear messaging that the intent is to make it unplayable and was wondering when we can expect to see it deleted rather than just removed piece by piece @ZOS_GinaBruno @ZOS_Kevin ? I know the game's code is a hot mess but surely you can just do a flat delete rather than just taking it out piece by piece like you're doing now. I need a valid excuse to convince me that my time sunk into this game really was a waste.

Looking forward to the response so we can move on already!

You aren't doing us any favors by continuing to make these sarcastic "just delete werewolf" threads.
They aren't going to acknowledge anything expressed with an attitude.

No sarcasm, I'm not joking.

Aka_ · August 2023

Grizzbeorn wrote: »

Panderbander wrote: »

So I noticed a bug where werewolf still exists on the PTS despite some clear messaging that the intent is to make it unplayable and was wondering when we can expect to see it deleted rather than just removed piece by piece @ZOS_GinaBruno @ZOS_Kevin ? I know the game's code is a hot mess but surely you can just do a flat delete rather than just taking it out piece by piece like you're doing now. I need a valid excuse to convince me that my time sunk into this game really was a waste.

Looking forward to the response so we can move on already!

You aren't doing us any favors by continuing to make these sarcastic "just delete werewolf" threads.
They aren't going to acknowledge anything expressed with an attitude.

I make posts or comments all the time that are respectful and ignored. If they choose to not care, they won't care, no matter how you say it. One just might result in an edit by a forum mod to snip something.

JerBearESO · August 2023

I've always hated how WW works. Perma transform is kinda stupid IMO. Also bring forced into their skills alone...it takes over your class. They should do an overhaul to subclasses, since vampire also has core problems with undeath and I haaaaate the stages mechanic (forced upkeep is bleh).

May as well release 1 or 2 new subclasses with a rework to the current ones so they add reasonable flavor to ones build without being so...uuuugh it feels like they are half roleplay and half bothersome upkeep mechanics....

Also, there should be a base subclass, so as to be something to lose, to represent drawback for taking another subclass, so we don't have to have the strange damage type drawbacks that quite honestly cause problems in balance (part of why DK is OP in PvP is because it deals fire vs all the vamps).